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Funny I just got a notification from this response. I have not been on this forum in a very long time. I am so happy to report that I have a very healthy happy 16-year-old daughter who is no resemblance to the child that was in such turmoil. I will however say it has contributed to the person she is kind, compassionate and confident. I just went for an IEP meeting today which we did not even try Start one until eighth grade where things got worse before they got better but I have to say once over the hump of entering puberty things really started to balance out. She has not used one accommodation from her bare bones IEP she has good grades healthy social relationships and almost no residual OCD. I hope this gives hope to the parents that are going through this. My main advice and one of the hardest lessons I learned and she actually helped me see it was not turning her into something that needed to be fixed with all the desperation of trying to find her help she did feel like that for a time. Funny once I excepted exactly how she was whether it was going to last forever or not is when she started to get better. Sending love and good vibes to all of you and hope for a better day.

I completely understand with needing to hear from others. We tried so many supplements over the years. We also did neurofeedback (muscle testing) and cognitive behaviour therapy with a child psychologist. Looking back the most important things that helped were - clean diet (real food not processed) with low oxalate foods, tonsil and adenoid removal, and learning how to "fight" his ocd and "worry brain" with common sense techniques that were given to us by the psychologist. Those techniques continue to be useful to this day, but only when he's not in a flare. When in flare it's too hard - his brain is inflammed and only abx will work. Tamar Chansky's books are helpful in understanding the talk-back techniques. I would also say that learning to re-wire his brain with music lessons also helped. People seem to look at me sideways when I say that but I truly believe it made and continues to make a difference. Another book I recommend is: The Brain's Way of Changing by Norman Doidge. It's been a long journey for us and we understand that our son will always have tics and worry brain issues to some degree, but they can be managed and he is living a great life. He excels at school, has many friends, participates in sports, camps, etc and is very happy about his life.

Hello, This is my first time on here. Chris is my husband & I wanted to give an update on our son. He is now 9 years old & I'm happy to say his tics are now under control, with only occasional motor tics. We are so thankful for sites like this. Otherwise we would have never known to restrict his diet & try essential oils. I have several friends who have reached out after my recent post on social media & they are also seeing positive results with changing diet & applying essential oils. I spend much more time at the grocery store checking labels on anything that is processed foods. I buy mostly fresh fruits, vegetables & all natural meats. We can always tell if our son eats something that is not within his diet. His tics are almost instantly much more visible & it takes a few days to get him back to normal. We are so thankful everyday to have our happy go lucky son back. We know that he may always have tics, but it’s so reassuring to know that it is controllable with something as simple as diet changes & his daily half tablet of Guanfacine. I have said from the beginning I will always make sure he has a normal, happy life, no matter what. It is possible. My son is a reminder everyday.

Jumping in with a different perspective. Was your son vaccinated? Vaccine adjuvants are designed to cross the BBB, specifically aluminium. There was much discussion on this site that Pandas is a version of aluminum toxicity. With vaccines, the aluminum is designed to hold onto the antigen and keep it in the body long term; thereby introducing antigens into the brain as well. It is believed that detoxing from aluminum and mercury helps quiet the immune system. We have tried selenium for mercury, malic acid for aluminum and other stuff as well. She is probably not all clean, but definitely is aluminum sensitive- she cannot tolerate aluminum based deodorant. She is currently using Diatomaceous earth for a slow detox for everything. I think it is helping well. I have learnt about vaccine reactions about seven years ago, and have not vaccinated my kids since. I have 2 totally unvaccinated kids, and several partially vaccinated. It is a CRIME what pharma is doing to our kids without knowing the long term effects. I can honestly say, VACCINES ARE NOT WORTH IT! Which parent would not nurse a child through a bad case of pertussins or measles, and even sweat the time through the a hospitalization for physical problems versus dealing with what we are dealing with here?!!! Just venting my pain. I wish I would have known about this issue many many years ago.

Our daughter was treated with plasmapheresis in 2017. She has pandas/Pans but not Lyme (we think?). She was typically treated adequately with antibiotics but for whatever reason we couldn’t get that one flare under control with abx or prednisone, so we went looking for ivig. .. The immunologist we found had more success in his patients with plasmapheresis than ivig. Our daughter’s symptoms were severe at this point. It is also often easier to get insurance coverage for plasmapheresis than ivig, which is curious to me. For all these reasons, we went with plasmapheresis, and would do it again in a heartbeat. I cannot express how life-changing it was. (Two years out we may be needing it again, and if we do, I will be nothing but optimistic going into it.) We are in VA so I don’t think I can help as far as who can treat near you. However, don’t take the “it’s impossible to get in CA” and just give up.... start making phone calls. Call area hospitals and ask if they do plasmapheresis at ALL, regardless of reason. Ask which immunologists order it. Work backwards from there. You are at an advantage because of your son’s age, as the issue is often finding an apheresis unit with the capability of treating a peds patient. Your son is not a peds patient so you already don’t have that barrier! I do not have experience with Lyme related to plasmapheresis. Also don’t take the “insurance won’t cover” without checking your plan on your own. You can call and ask if the cpt code is covered (I don’t have it in front of me but could find it) and whether it needs preauth. Don’t give up. Hope I helped or at least gave hope. Good luck.

Donald Raden, MD is an Integrative Psychiatrist in Highwood, IL. His practice is called the Raden Wellness Center. My son (age 13) has been under Dr. Raden’s care for 1 year. He saved my son’s life. He treats many young adults with PANDAS. My son’s case was severe.

I contacted PANDAS Network right after the episode. This morning I received this response from Diana Pohlman: "We heard from lots of parents and 600 innundated the producers email. We are following up with an email to the producers as well. Happily 20-20 is doing a great story on REAL TREATMENT mid May and that will be on ABC." NBC is the producer for Chicago Med.

Oh my, I'm so sorry! Your son's description of how he's feeling reminds me vividly of Susannah Cahalan's description of her own auto-immune illness in "Brain on Fire." She, too, experienced paranoia and some other symptoms that many traditional doctors would all too readily dismiss as solely psychiatric manifestations, dispensing with the underlying physical issues. If your son is a danger to himself or to others, you will need to get him immediate help; if that means the hospital, then it's the hospital. Unfortunately, I think it likely that you should expect to be met with some psychiatric interventions -- tranquilizers, at a minimum -- if he presents as agitated or full-on delusional at admissions. You may have reached a crossroads where the abx are insufficient for meeting his illness adequately. Can you get a PANDAS/PANS specialist on board? I know a number of families here have allowed short-term and periodic use of anti-psychotics or tranquilizers (Valium, Seroquel, etc.), just to get there kids calm enough to travel for help, and/or to give the kid and the whole family a break and some sleep. I'm not advocating that, necessarily, but you have to do what works in order to give your kid their best chance at a route which leads to the best healing. Hang in there. Hopefully, someone else will chime in with more direct experience that may resonate with your situation.

I am checking as the mom much farther down the road to be a help, if I can. My daughter was diagnosed in November 2012. This is our five year anniversary with this disease and there is HOPE for all of your kids. This is long but please read: With one of the most profound and difficult to treat cases to ever treat - my daughter is staring community college in the spring! You name the symptom and she has exhibited it - to name a few... complex tics, anorexia, bed wetting, mutism, depression, OCD, sleep disorders, a host of psychiatric symptoms (including schizoprhenic type symptoms including violence), and catatonia. She has also had every treatment - countless antibiotics, IVIVGs, rituximab, cell cept, prophylactic antibiotix, cytoxan, tociluzimab. We lost four years of life - she lost high school, and I shut down ever yaspect of life to take care of her. It has been lonely, frustrating, difficult, depressing...and yet hopeful, strengthening, funny, and finally TRIUMPHANT. I am repositing something a wrote in 2015 to give you all some encouragement and some general advice - especially to parents of children who are most severely affected. After I wrote this my daughter's trajectory slowed, but we found tociluzumab was the treatment that finally rounded out her recovery and though she still has some memory loss and is still making her way back academically. We know that she is going to have a NORMAL LIFE. Just a year ago, I thought she would always be with us, never have a job, never have friends...and now she is learning to drive and starting college classes (with a little support from special services) in a few weeks. Now she is running, swimming, laughing, talkative, and back to her old self - volunteering at a local library and worried about her hair and makeup (you have no idea what a big deal that is). Remember that every child presents differently and the part of the autoimmune system that is affected - and therefore the treatment that works - is different for each child. That said, PM me or ask me here and I will try to start checking in now that I too have my own life back. Hang in there....it will get better... Here is the 2015 post. My daughter has one of the most severe and drug-resistant cases of what falls under the big umbrella of a strep-induced autoimmune disorder that left her with severe neurological and significant joint involvement. For those who don't remember us, my daughter was an exceptional student and athlete, and world's happiest and easy child to raise - until the bottom fell out two years ago. In a matter of a days she suddenly and frighteningly developed Sydenham's chorea, tics, mutism, mood swings, joint pain and swelling. aversions, delusions, rage and host of other heart-breaking symptoms. It has been a tremendously challenging road and so as an unwilling seasoned veteran here is the advice I am giving to anyone who thinks their child has PANDAS, PANS, LYME or any other unusual/frustrating unnamed condition. 1. Do NOT waste time. The first time you see symptoms that do not clear up permanently after a round of antibiotics, get real help. Any of the symptoms I have described indicate your child has neurological inflammation. For the majority of kids, this could mean your child has cross-reacting antibodies, that are attacking your child's healthy tissues. For many kids this could involve brain, heart or joint problems so you absolutely need to rule out any potential damage, especially heart involvement (this was the one potential result our daughter had). The longer you go, the more damage that can result and the harder it will be to treat. This means: 2. Your child has a PHYSICAL disease with psychiatric symptoms resulting from inflammation so you need the right specialists. If your child has recurrent or ongoing flares after antibiotic treatment, and you are only seeing a psychiatrist or PANDAS doctor who has not done a full spectrum of physical diagnostics (MRI, heart ultrasound, tests for Lyme, allergies, inflammatory markers, titers, etc.) then ask your pediatrician for a pediatric neurologist referral. Remember this is PHYSICAL. I can't emphasize this enough: If you can, go see a neurologist and an immunologist. 3. It's not in a name, so don't get stuck with a label. I know we all want that relief/satisfaction of saying my child has "PANDAS" or some other condition, but that can predispose physicians to start treating before a real diagnosis and plan is put forth. For example, we ran off immediately to USF for PANDAS evaluation, at which they gave us some surveys, talked to us and then tossed us some antibiotics with a diagnosis of PANDAS. Not one physical diagnostic test was done and we were foolish to go along with that. In time, they would have ramped up to IVIG, etc....but I would never have known that my daughter could have had heart damage. For those wanting a name., honestly, ( For the math-minded I think we are talking about a spectrum of autoimmune diseases that could be plotted on a coordinate plane of X and symptoms on Y, to find that our kids are scattered all over the place) I think there are as many names for these diseases as there are kids. Just call it, "Insert your child's name here" disease. I am kidding - but also not. The many presentations of these diseases explain why they sound akin to others (like Lupus) and yet different when we talk to each other here. Also, never mention diagnosis to insurance providers. Many are looking for reasons to reject claims so let your doctors and insurance companies play the coding game. 4. Take meticulous notes regarding symptoms.Take pictures and video even at bad times. Trust me, you will forget. Look for subtle things like handwriting and appetite changes, sleeping changes, expression of unusual ideas, reduced speech. When first met our neurologist, I came in not with a disease name but a table of symptoms, date of onset, severity and frequency. I wanted them to diagnose without predisposition. 5. Don't worry about the bandaids - yet. I know a lot of us sweat everything from glutens, to certain amino acids to micronutrients. Until you rule out allergies, known genetic deficiencies....don't lie awake at night and wonder whether or not you are missing some esoteric piece of the puzzle. Feed your child well, make sure they are getting plenty of vitamin D (low is usually indicative of a chronic inflammatory process), and as many nutrients as they can from real food. You are a good parent, and while the little things will help along with a healthy lifestyle, there is no magic pill. Proper diagnostics will eliminate a lot of concern about allergies and root causes so you don't waste a fortune in time and money trying this and that. We are desperate and vulnerable so read everything with a critical eye. 6. Trust your gut and assert yourself. I went to FOUR doctors and had three ER visits with my daughter, shaking my head and respectfully telling them we were moving on when they told me she was probably just depressed. WRONG. (Tangents: I think our world, present and past is full of kids who are under-diagnosed for physical problems, and there is NO difference between mental health and health. It's just health). 7. Your child is not your child. There is no way that sweet baby of yours would ever do the things he/she is doing if he/she was healthy. Easier said than done - but do not take it personally. That said, reasonable consequences apply. If your child is having severe outbursts, you have to remind yourself: THIS IS THE DISEASE. Say it like a mantra if you have to. 8. Get healthy and fit. I have had to care for my daughter for two years 24/7. Most of you will not be like that. It's going to try your body, mind and spirit. It's going to be hard so you need to be battle prepared. At times, you are going to be scared, angry, tired, frustrated and lonely so you are going to need to be at your best like no other time in your life. Get sleep and don't worry if there are fingerprints on the appliances and the car needs vacuuming. My family has learned that no matter what, I am taking an hour a day to run or surf. 9. Get brave and tough.. People closest to you are going to hurt your feelings, and give you unwanted advice. Head them off at the pass and tell them that you are on top of all the research and protocols (you need to be), that this is going to be stressful, that you are so grateful for their support, but that the things you can't have them do include _______. For me, it was advice on how to parent...like when my daughter would be defiant, or when I chose to keep her out of the public eye when her tics and chorea were severe. Doing that up front will save all of you a lot of misunderstandings down the road. The "Loving but Uninformed" in your life will give you some bizarre advice at times; take it in the spirit in which they meant it. At the same time, get soft. For me, this meant learning to accept help from other people. I have always prided myself in being able to be self-reliant, being able to do it all, but with this spectrum of disease - forget it. I have learned that letting people help is not a sign of weakness, but an acceptance of kindness that can really make a difference. The people around you who really care want to help. Let them. 10. Slow down the clock. You aren't going to get it all done. At times you are going to be late to school. Sometimes you won't get to a place at all. You might even miss a major life event like a close friend's wedding, or as it is in my case...your chid might even miss a year of school. It will work out. 11. Read it all, get informed, stay on top of it...and then walk away at times. You cannot live and breathe this everyday without becoming obsessed in an unhealthy way. My daughter loathes it that I pick up on every tic, and my husband got tired of my talking through the study results in the third standard deviation for the sample size of 12 for the methylation of a certain gene expression (whoa, sexy AND romantic) when we crawled into bed at night. (The main reason I come and go from this website .) 12. Go out at a minimum of twice a month for the evening. The only rule: Thou shall not talk about thy child or thy child's disease. Also keep something out there a month or two away to look forward to...beach, trip to parents, buying a new sofa, camping trip. Finally, don't forget the healthy siblings and your SO. As much of a nut as I am about healthy eating, sometimes a little love and acknowledgement is as easy as a box of walnut brownies that can be mixed and tossed in the oven in two minutes...with a PostIt note alongside. After two years of IVIG, Cellcept, Rixtuximab and Cytoxan, we are finally knocking down the world's most persistent immune system and our daughter is slowly getting better. Chorea is gone, tics gone, OCD gone, moods better, tremors gone, ataxia gone, mutism gone, catatonia gone, sleep patterns good, aversions gone, eating well, engaging with the family, smiling, laughing and has some quality of life. Long story short: Treat physically and if a child like ours (who is probably one of a handful of the most profound expressions ever on this disease spectrum) can get fully back on the happy and healthy track - yours will too.

Fiddlegrl -- Welcome to the forum, though I'm sorry for all you've been through and the issues you're still fighting. I will say that I've been with this forum for many years now...first during my DS's illness and healing, and then somewhat less frequently for the last few years, checking in to follow up on old friends and any new research, and to chime in when something resonates with my experience. Pretty much ALL of the symptoms you've described, unfortunately, have been discussed here as part of the PANs/PANDAs continuum. It stinks. I don't have any practical experience with respect to Lyme and its co-infections; my DS's syndrome was clearly strep-related, though seasonal allergies exacerbated inflammation and the immune response for a number of years, once the PANDAs had kicked into high gear. Like you, though, we believe his behavioral issues were tied to atypical strep infections potentially as young as 3 years of age, though certainly by the age of 6 when he was officially given an OCD diagnosis. But he never tested positive (via swab and culture) for strep at the time, and no local doctors would give us the time of day regarding PANDAs then, either, so he went without any real treatment until he hit 12. That's when the PANDAs brought him to an absolutely non-functional state, the research coming out of NIMH, Columbia and Dr. Cunningham had progressed, and we were finally able to talk someone into an antibiotic trial. It was a long road, but the rest, as they say, is now thankfully pretty much history. As a result of our experience, though, I do think it likely that PANDAS/PANs sufferers who are at a more advanced age before receiving immune and/or anti-inflammatory therapies may have a harder road with respect to healing and "bouncing back;" not sure if that's because the brain "wiring" has matured more in the interim, or if the chronic inflammatory and auto-immune responses in the body are somehow more entrenched and therefore harder to reverse. In the end, it took my DS about 5 years in total to return to pretty much full functionality, and that was with auto-immune, therapeutic and psychiatric interventions all thrown into the mix. He continues to contend with some OCD and situational anxiety now and again, and I'm not convinced that this will ever disappear completely. But those issues remain at manageable levels (knock on wood), and he's happy and healthy and constructive and functional. Pretty much all we could ask for, after what he went through. I'm not sure how to advise you on any possible next steps, really, except to suggest that perhaps exploring some additional genetic markers and methylation issues might help you for the long term? You mentioned genetic testing for porphyria, but did you get a full work-up? A search here on the forum for "methylation" and "mutations" will lead you to multiple discussions regarding the methylation cycle and how genetic testing has helped point some families to a regimen of supplements and/or medications that proved to be more effective for them in light of various mutations and genetic predispositions. Perhaps that's worth a try? Finding a well-versed LLMD and/or integrative physician who could be your partner in working through these issues would be a bonus. Your post was very well-written, so I'm picturing an intelligent, capable and fairly "together" young woman, so I sincerely hope you're finding moments of joy and contentment in your everyday life, despite this tremendous burden. All the best to you!

Just to add - I would definitely recommend the T & A removal. I believe it made a big difference both in ridding him of an embedded infection and preventing further ones.

Thanks Mama3 for replying my post. I cried almost every night the first week, I regained strength after reading the posts from this forum. I know I’m not alone in this long battle. {{Hugs}}

Thank you Chemar. You have so many good points. I really appreciate your kind perspective and insight. I will take them to heart. And you are right. You only have your youth once.

Pennmom—yes, his intrusive thoughts were the last thing to go. He had hallucinations (he saw werewolves all over the place), ocd—lots and lots of rituals like running in front of the back door a certain number of times before he could enter the house, extreme separation anxiety and extreme anxiety in general, and emotional lability. Those symptoms began to ease up gradually between 3-7 months from the time of the first onset in August 2018. The hallucinations and accompanying hand movements were the first clue that something was terribly wrong in August 2018. Looking back it seemed like there were some minor signs from earlier in the summer, too. I had never heard of PANS/PANDAS before all this. As for your original question I think we started to see some improvement after about 8 weeks on a certain combo of antibiotics (biaxin and augmentin) and then dr switched up antibiotics to get the myco p. Although no two kids’ path to recovery is the same it does seem like it takes awhile to get better. (I had such high hopes for our first 10 day course of amoxicillin that the pediatrician put him on when she discovered the strep). Hang in there—it’s going to get better.

Having raised a kid now to college with constant PANDAS struggles, I am convinced immune health is key. We had a period of antibiotics and then tonsillectomy which seemed to provide some relief. But continue to manage separation issues and particular obsessions. Currently using prozac and pretty aggressive CBT (ERP). Having recently overcome significant digestive issues, I am convinced the key to strong immunity is a clean and healthy gut. My kid was exposed to antibiotics at birth, had chronic constipation as a toddler, and was OCD symptomatic at age 3-4. We have a sibling with anxiety and narcolepsy, another with ADD/ADHD, we had some of these mild tics off and on. I'm sure they are related. I recognize the parental panic. The kids need examples of dealing calmly with these issues. All we can do is find someone good to work with and continue to try the next thing.

Hi I do understand how you are feeling as my son went through a bout of coprolalia (cussing/swearing) tics when he was 10 and it was hard for him as well as for us (he does have a Tourette diagnosis, genetic from his Dad's side) Coprolalia is recognized as a vocal tic in Tourette Syndrome. All TS tics are involuntary, so that makes the struggle when dealing with "socially unacceptable" tics even harder, especially as often having people notice or comment makes the tic even harder to suppress. My son had Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, and that really helped as he was able to learn ways to substitute words or say the bad ones under his breath. A good CBT therapist can really help tremendously...but it was our experience that it's best to have someone who understand TS He is 30 now and living a productive life so please know there is hope, even after the multitude of assorted tics that have waxed and waned over the years. Things were at their worst for him when neurologists and psychiatrist put him on those very strong prescription drugs, so just do be informed before you accept prescriptions from the doctors etc you are planning to see. I know not everyone reacts negatively to the meds, but when they do, it can be long lasting and very seriously detrimental. We found tremendous help by addressing his diet, environment, allergies etc and supplementing with nutrients he needed. We also used a number of other alternative treatments that made a very positive impact. I have an old thread that gives some info on what we did to help him https://latitudes.org/forums/topic/687-the-treatments-that-have-helped-my-son/ I would also encourage you to look at the section on the ACN/Latitudes website on TS tics https://latitudes.org/conditions/what-is-tourette-syndrome/ Also the very helpful resource books by Sheila Rogers on natural treatments for tics/Tourette and learning what triggers tics https://latitudes.org/store/natural-treatments-for-tics-and-tourette-syndrome-book/ https://latitudes.org/store/tourette-syndrome-triggers-book/ I hope this helps a bit, and that you will be encouraged in knowing things can get better and there is much reason for hope!

We did a whole bunch of different probiotics—Culturelle, GutPro, Flora, etc. For antibiotics the ones that he was on longest were a combo of Biaxcin/Augmentin and then later Clindamycin/Rifampicin because the strep came down, but not the Myco p. (The Clindamycin was really rough on his stomach though).

Just do remember that Essential Oils are concentrated and not all brands can be applied to the skin without use of a carrier oil. When used neat, one drop is totally enough! and even then it depends on the individual. Some people cannot tolerate all oils. ie they will react ok with one and very negatively with another. My son has always been that way. Just because something is natural doesn't always mean it doesn't have a potential for reactivity. We learned that the hard way and with much trial and error. It's the same with supplements....they are excellent and beneficial - but different people have different reactions.

Sunflower78, YOU ARE NOT ALONE! There is a community of support who can and will listen and understand what you're going through, direct you to resources, tell you what has worked for them (elimination of gluten for us for sure), and give you hope. That was about the same time my son's tics started, and it has been a long, fascinating journey. If this is any comfort, he is presently a thriving 15 year old who plays football, is the deepest thinker I've ever met, kind and empathetic to others, and a most marvelous human being. As far as the guilt goes, that is tough, but I try to remember that we are all complex creatures who have genetically inherited strengths, talents and qualities that can make life a little more challenging. And that is true for all of us, whether it manifests as something extrinsically or not. Hang in there. We understand. Eve

Thank you both for your kind words. This feels so lonely. We have a neuro appointment on 15th, but who knows what they tell us. It seems nobody really knows much about tics and first advice is wait and watch. Sigh. I am taking him to the zoo today to try and forget for a while. I bought the book already!

Hi Sunflower78 So sorry to hear of what you are going through. As a mom who was in that same state of anguish almost 20 years ago, I absolutely understand. But I so agree with Sheila that you should not blame yourself. There are so many possible causative factors that can trigger tics. We can beat ourselves up, or we can focus on trying to find the best ways to make things better. It was thanks to Sheila and this forum that I was able to follow the latter course, and thankfully things started to improve for my son. In our case, my son does have a genetic TS component, but even so, many things we learned here made such a difference in helping to manage his tics. I do think your pediatrician may be way too quick to say Tourettes! Unfortunately many mainstream physicians really are not keeping up with so much info that is around about other possible tic triggers. I am at work so I can only do a quick reply now, but I would greatly encourage you to just start reading up on as much info here as possible and also on the main ACN/Latitudes website https://latitudes.org/ Sheila's books and articles have been a tremendous help to so many as well!

Yes, chlorine was a major tic trigger for my son! Even though it didn't show in his list of actual allergies, more detailed testing showed he was very very sensitive to it, as to many other chemicals. Later testing confirmed he has MCS (Multiple Chemical Sensitivity) which is why both environmental and food additive chemicals impact him so intensely, including chemical perfumed/fragranced items etc I found some excellent online resources over the years to make my own household products, and always select fragrance free/dye free options for laundry, toiletries etc and of course no artificial food dyes or other artificial food additives.

Maybe a PANS/PANDAS specialist could do a Skype/phone consult and at least give you a script for all the blood work? Also this thread has info on doctors people here have seen and I think various states are mentioned.

Bloodwork being normal is not unusual as far as I know. And does not mean that it is not an immune problem. Have you talked to a PANS/PANDAS specialist?

After suffering with OCD and intrusive thoughts for over 3 1/2 years, we finally were able to get a rheumatologist to prescribe a high dose of Augmentin for 30 days for our DS in 2016. During the 3 1/2 years we tried unsuccessfully to treat his symptoms with pharmaceutical meds. The doctor let us start the abx before his bloodwork came back, which ultimately showed normal Strep titers. She said we may continue the abx for the 30 days if we chose to. He had no response for the first ten days, but on day 11 or so his symptoms began to rapidly improve. Again, his bloodwork had come back normal. I think if the infection was too far in the past it doesn’t show up on the bloodwork, although the misfired antibodies continue to attack the brain. The Cunningham Panel is what got the PANS diagnosis for my DS. With PANS, there are 3 things to address: the infection, the inflammation and the immune response.

I know. It is so overwhelming. Let me know if you start the Oil of Oregano. If I recall we saw an improvement within a week with a high dose of Oil of Wild Oregano.

Are you doing anything anti-inflammatory? Try ibuprofen 3x a day for a week and see if it helps. Or try turmeric 2x a day. If she does even slightly better while inflammation is reduced, it's helpful to know, as it suggests something autoimmune is involved. Steroid tapers have helped my son several times. If you can convince a doc to prescribe them for a couple of weeks, that may be something worth pursuing. So sorry you are going through this. Sending virtual hugs.

For a long time we thought that our daughter had one of the rare cases of PANS without OCD until we figured out that her OCD just didn't look like the typical manifestations of OCD. Sometimes she would get stuck on something and not be able to let it go or she would be very negative about everything. She was actually having obsessive thoughts that fit an OCD pattern, but there usually were no particular compulsions that went with the obsessive thoughts. Later we also realized that there were obsessive thoughts underlying some of her behaviors and she just never articulated those thoughts. No one knew what was going on in her mind except her. Now that she's a bit older we have lots of conversations about what constitutes a normal worry and what is an obsessive thought and we have a window into her mind that has helped us to help her. I think it's also has been a relief to her. For a long time I read list after list of OCD symptoms in kids and nothing seemed to fit. I don't know if this is common for PANS/PANDAS kids, but her OCD didn't fit anything I read. She's doing much better now, but has some lingering symptoms that come and go, and it's only been more recently that we've seen some more straightforward OCD symptoms.

Note: This has been approved for posting by Forum administration. For any that contributed to this genetic study that we posted here (and elsewhere) - thank you so much! The cutoff was last night, and we had a great result - 71 sets of data. I will post some tidbits of "aggregate" results here (and in the other groups this was put in). I am wary of posting full results on facebook, because then facebook could claim some ownership. Instead, full analysis results (data in aggregate form only) will eventually be posted here: https://osf.io/pf7q2/?view_only=ba9efeabb38e4a22adced3b5ba4dc5a5 That link above is live to the public now, and you can see (in the last revision of a registration plan), what are the 78 SNPs that we have looked at. We are going to look at many more SNPs, though, and do lots more analysis than what is listed there. The plan was just to lay out in advance what we could declare as significant in this pilot study.

Hi Chris - I just wanted to thank you for your post. My husband and I are going through something similar. Our 7 year old son was recently diagnosed with transient tic disorder. His tics are eye rolls and head twitches. While we are still very early on in this process and continue to learn more and more each day, it was frustrating to leave our appointment with our neurologist last week with no recommendation of what we could do to help our son. I've been doing some research on some more holistic approaches we can take, and was so glad to see your post and read up on what's been helping your family. I hope your success continues - this post gave me a lot of hope!

We did not see dramatic improvement for my DS 14, until he was put on the encephalitis protocol for IVIG, which is monthly HD. He has had 5 so far. This was started after limited success with weekly LD IVIG. He has shown lasting improvement with each treatment. Tics gone, OCD 90% gone. He still has anxiety, focus issues and sound sensitivity. We are hoping for some relief from those symptoms with future treatments.

My son has similar behavioral issues. We tried different things, including the Ross Greene method. But, because of his age regression due to the PANS/PANDAS, "normal" techniques didn't work. We ended up doing an intensive CBT program a couple of years ago and now do weekly CBT therapy. He's improved alot. It's still ongoing.

Hello I just wanted to share my story, and maybe it will help others. I'll try keep this focused and straight to the point. My son started his "noticeable" tics on Christmas eve 2017. Pediatrician said it's command and would go away, just not sure when. I started to get more and more concerned as frequency increased, at times it would be several times a minute. He had motor tics with his arms, then later shoulder shrugs, then neck turning, and facial tic (that we thought were just too much screen time). No vocal tics noticed. He had a bad diet being a bit picky, and would eat lots of candy, he would also get lots of tablet time. I had my share of sleepless nights thinking and worrying about him. I tipped off about the book "Natural Treatments for Tics and Tourettes..."..and that book, lifted my spirits, inspired me, gave me hope, and energized me to help my son. Here's what I implemented at home: (mind you, the night before I started making changes, he was sick with a fever and tic'ing restlessly) Bought magnesium gummies to give him Bought fish oil Cut the high fructose out of the diet started removing artificial flavors and colors cut down on screen time When he was sick for about a 8 day stretch, I started the plan above. He already hadn't been eating much since being sick, but we I started giving him magnesium supplement. He probably had magnesium supplement for about 6 days then he got better. We noticed immediate turnaround, for a good few days I didn't see 1 motor tic, which was going from several times a minute to maybe 1 all day. Just seeing it stop for 1 full day, confirmed to me that there is something we can do despite what the dr's say. We started to be more conciseness about what we feed our kids, and tried to get more nutrients in them. I had to explain to the both kids, that we all need to eat healthier, so we need to stop eating stuff that's bad for us. My son was all in, he always asks now if a certain food is healthy. About 2 months into being more healthy his motor tics were probably 90% gone, but he still had some facial tics. The crazy thing is even though he made great progress, just seeing a tic here and there could still sink my spirits. Thinking about his bad diet and him not being regular with his stool, got me thinking he may have leaky gut and that maybe he's not absorbing nutrients well. I know the battle may not be over yet, but I'm happy to report that he hasn't had a motor tic that i've seen in about 2 weeks, and the last week have not noticed many facial tics. This week he's also been more regular, going #2 every other day (previously it was 1-2 per week). What we're are currently doing: Supplements: Smarty Pants Multi (whch has omega 3) Smart Calm Magnesium gummies (they loooove, the taste of this one) Fiber gummy probiotic gummy Eating / Food: No High Fructose No Artificial Flavors No Artificial Colors Fruit / Veg smoothies Buy Organic when we can Cut down on fast food - there was a happy meal or 2 in the last 2 months Candy is not an everyday thing, special occasions and rewards Other: Cut down screen More board games Playing outside I still allow them to have candy here and there, but nothing like before. I just still want them to enjoy being a kid, so even at birthday parties, I'll let them splurge. I hope someone can takeaway something from my post, I know reading posts from others often lifted my spirits while I was going through some hard times with my childs tics. Feel free to ask me questions.....

Without going back and rereading what I might have said about Probiotics. . . . . in my humble opinion, they are a major key to getting this stuff under control. I'm not a doctor, and I don't even play one on TV, but the probiotics that are also called Psychobiotics, play a major role in the stomachaches, the anxieties, the anger, and obsessions. I adopted my DD, she was my great-niece, and we knew that there was some drug use involved during pregnancy. We were vigilant from the beginning. She was diagnosed with Sensory Processing Disorder at about almost 2 years old and we have been working with her on that stuff since there. But almost from the beginning, there has been stomach aches and pooping issues. We thought we had things handled things until they recently got much worse and her anxiety was out of control. Panic attacks at school, in the car, in the stores, at the therapists, etc. That is when the doctor tested for strep and diagnosed her with pandas. She was always getting strep. Anyway, the first probiotic (Culturelle) seemed to help overall. The next probiotic (Renewed Life) I gave almost completely killed the anxiety, but her ability to process frustration and injustice almost disappeared. That was a couple of days that ended in nightmare and the regretted behavior. The third probiotic (Pro-Kids-15) reduced anxiety and obsession and actually improved her ability to process frustration and injustice. She has had a couple of panic attack at school and she couldn't handle the school field trips, (which I drove her too) but overall is doing well. No near-psychotic moments where she tries to hurt herself or run away. I just just can't wait until school is over. I hope to use the summer to help her heal and prep for the next year. And doctors are great people to have your team, but I have found that I can be just as effective in helping my daughter as they can, using safe, non-restricted methods. My DD's doctors are good people, but I think it is impossible for them to care enough to treat this sort of thing. It takes parent(s) that care and know what is going on. Thanks for letting me share.

I recommend the book, “The Explosive Child”. It’s not PANDAS specific, but it definitely can apply.

I have found it profoundly enlightening to read about some of the obsessions and what parents thought were associated to them. I know some of these things are pretty personal, but finding patterns and possible solutions can be very helpful. So, my DD is 10. She was diagnosed with Sensory Processing Disorder when she was about 3. My daughter was adopted at birth from my niece. We believe she was exposed to several drugs during pregnancy, and the father was a heavy user. She is "normal" from all first impressions, but she was obsessive about intense events. Like she might get hit by another child and she would not let it go for months. Then it was things like "a child threw up on the rug" and she would never sit on the rug again. But basically, it was very manageable and I that concerned. We had therapists for her for anything we thought she needed. She did seem to get sick easily. And she got strep, and pneumonia, even the H1N1 (we think all did) she started getting a little worst. She also have a couple of stays in the hospital for UTI's and blockages. She was diagnosed with gastro-paresis was one low doses of amoxicillin for motility from a very young age. Eventually that stopped working. So we went to an antihistamine called cyproheptadine. She is still on it. She has been on antibiotics several times, for ear infections, pneumonia, etc. She had blood work a couple of times and developed a phobia of needles. I had major heart surgery she was about 5 and that might have affected her. With the last time we needed blood work, she had a major panic attack, hyperventilating, etc. Mostly, her major obsession was with getting a fever. She needed me to check her forehead at least 2-4 times an hour, all day, every day. Then it was fear that she would throw up. Every 15 minutes she would say she was going to throw up. She got sick at Applebees about 3 years ago and everyday something reminded her that event. She didn't want to go out to eat because it reminded to her of that. Needless to say, we never went back to Applebees. Going from appointment to another would trigger major anxiety, but once there, she was fine. I started her on a powder probiotic, 5 billion, called Culturelle, about 3 weeks ago. She started having better days, but also somethings got worst. She seemed to get more fearful of others and their germs, but less about her forehead. But, she started playing for friends again. I started her on Renewed Life 30 billion, and her anxiety seemed to almost go away. But her ability to process her frustration also disappeared. One night she physically violent with us, the next day she attacked another student (her niece) in school for not getting out a seat she wanted. My Pro-Kids (Pro- 15) got here the next day and I stopped the Renewed Life and gave her the new Pro-Kids. Everything seemed to just settle and calm. She had a wonderful day. She went to her gymnastic lesson without complaint, she played with her niece, (got annoyed but worked through it) and went to the store with us without complaining. She kept saying how good she felt, her stomach didn't hurt. I began to question about things like, "did she feel spoiled" (a common one), did she feel anxious, (very common), was anything reminding her of Applebees, (very common) and she answered "no" to all it. She checked her forehead once today. Even though I'm pretty excited, I know this stuff is never really over. But, the idea that there is hope is strong with me.

I found the book, “The Explosive Child” extremely helpful. I would recommend that both you and your wife read it. It discusses collaborative problem solving, but also that sometimes “giving in” to the child is the best option at the moment. It is not worth the child or someone else getting hurt. Unrelated to the book, my son has an OCD issue about being told “no”. He explains that is has nothing to do with getting his way. I think when he asks for something and he’s told “no”, it makes him feel “bad” or “greedy”. I need to be careful how I word my response. For example if he asks for ice cream before bed, instead of saying, “You’ve had enough ice cream today and it’s too close to bedtime”, I would say, “You may have ice cream after lunch tomorrow”. It took me years to figure out that most of his rages were due to someone interfering with a compulsion.

I'm so sorry, Lordchallen. That all sounds awful. But, unfortunately, these sorts of "rages" appear to be part and parcel of some kids' PANDAS behavior set. Usually brought on by severe and unrelenting frustration, knowing that their behavior isn't what it once was, isn't what it should be with respect to age-appropriateness, but to a large extent out of their control because their brains are so disordered currently, their executive functioning so challenged. As for why those behaviors seem to get worse or more extreme in the evening as compared to the morning? I had a psychologist give me a metaphor once that painted a pretty good picture. Your kid gets up in the morning and it's a new day; everything yesterday is behind her, and she has a chance to "do it right" today. So the morning is about as full of optimism as the day is going to get. And then she goes to school or goes about her day, and because she's around peers or non-parent adults, she's doing her best to keep it all together. So she sucks up her anxiety and distress for much of the day, trying to "be normal." And like a glass that's slowing filling up with all of that angst and frustration, she's got those reserves, under the surface. But by the end of the day, that glass is full, and at the next incident that's frustrating or anxiety-producing, it's overflowing because there's just nowhere to stuff it any longer. And she's in a "safe" space at home and with her family, so she's not forced to suck it up any longer like she is at school or around her friends or their families. And she probably couldn't by that time of day anyway, even if she tried, because the glass/her reservoir is full, tapped out. It's really hard because you don't want to excuse these rages as acceptable, but at the same time, you know there's an extent to which she can't control them. And she clearly doesn't want to have them, either. I would maybe try a few things. 1) Is there any chance she might have some excessive yeast growth going on due to antibiotic use? I know you're using probiotics, but sometimes that doesn't do the trick for all kids. Excessive yeast can make some kids more combative/ragey. 2) Maybe during a weekend morning or mid-day, you could have a "family meeting" and talk through some strategies with her, while she's calmer and she's in better command of her behavior and her emotions. Let her know you know she doesn't like those rages and is as distressed by them as you are, so let's figure out ways to de-escalate the situation, rather than fuel it. Maybe she can go into her room for a bit and listen to music or just sit by herself or with you quietly for a few minutes until she feels calmer? Maybe find a few things or activities that she finds pleasant and calming that could be brought in when she's overwhelmed or "topped out," if only for a few minutes at a time. 3) Have you tried using an anti-inflammatory in the evenings, like an Ibuprofen? We found that using this as a medicinal therapy after dinner seemed to help my DS to muscle through evening activities (homework) without getting quite so worked up or frustrated. I think it helped tamp down the inflammation enough so that he could think a little more clearly and not have quite such a quick trigger for frustration. WIshing you the best.

The medical community has a hard time believing Molecular Mimicry. However, when you have a child that is not able to stand, walk, has all over body pain, nonstop headache, scalp pain, hoarse voice, vocal tics and a doctor from MAYO suspects postinfectious encephalitis then it's time to figure out what the illness really is. The Cunningham Panel can determine if the antibodies are present but only needs to be done when a child is in a flare in (my personal opinion). My son was diagnosed with Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome (POTS) in October 2011. POTS can be caused by a virus. He had mycoplasma walking pneumonia in January 2011. Two years later testing revealed high Igg levels of mycoplasma, HHV6, Parvovirus, and a 500 strep DNASE level. My son suffered with his symptoms for several years and they did not appear overnight. The testing (Cunningham Panel) is available to prove that the antibodies do attach themselves to neural receptors. Thank goodness we have a few doctors that recognize what this illness is but it needs to be called neural receptors autoimmune encephalitis.

Where are you? What hospital is your daughter currently in? Any more new with respect to test results? Did these symptoms come on suddenly? Is your daughter otherwise neurotypical, or has she previously presented with autism or another neural disorder or "difference"? Yes, these symptoms are ones that can show up in severe episodes of auto-immune disorders, but not every medical professional is going to recognize the signs for what they are. When you had blood tests, what tests were included? You mention having an "immunity test." Via blood panels? What testing is included there? Make sure you're testing for ASO and anti-d-nase b (strep antibodies). Catatonia (even narcolepsy) has been associated with untreated strep infections, and many people are classically asymptomatic for strep -- no fever or sore throat, but raging antibody levels nonetheless. If you're spending time in the hospital, waiting, you might try getting a copy (it's available in digital format as well as paper) of a memoir by Susannah Cahalan called "Brain on Fire." Susannah suddenly developed all sorts of bizarre neuro symptoms, some of which your daughter is also displaying. She was studied and poked and prodded and tested, and they couldn't find the culprit; a set of doctors decided that she had a multitude of illnesses, both physical (seizure disorder) and mental (psychosis), but then one out-of-the-box thinking doctor noticed a few atypical behaviors and kept studying her and ultimately determined that she had developed some auto-immune reaction to some unknown microbe. It's been a while since I read the book, but I don't think they ever found out definitively what it was. I believe Susannah was treated with multiple interventions, but infusions were definitely in the mix, and she recovered. She was in New York, and the doctor who essentially saved her was Dr. Souhel Najjar.

I am so sorry to hear about your struggles. Have your symptoms changed since you started the abx (antibiotic)? I don't have any experience with adult PANDAS, but can easily imagine that what we see in children can easily translate to what you are describe as an adult. If your symptoms did get worse since the abx started, search "herx" with the dialogue box in the top right corner, once you are in this group (rather than the entire site, or just a thread). That will give you a bunch of hits on experiences of getting worse before getting better on abx. Descriptions of herx are usually dramatic, but that might be because only the most dramatic reactions are noted and reported - there may very well be such a thing as a slow, drawn-out herx.

Hi everyone, Yes, the plant Clerodendrum inerme does work to reduce tics and other comorbids very effectively. We have discovered it doesn't work for everyone but it has helped many. The Facebook group is called Natural Care for Tics and Tourettes. There are lengthy discussions there about this plant which we have nicknamed cleo. It can be taken as a green juice or in capsules after dehydrating and powdering the leaves or as a tincture or as a homeopathic remedy. The only restriction is you will need to source the plant and grow it in a pot or your own backyard. The safety profile of the plant is exemplary. Please also do your own research to satisfy yourselves .... there is a wealth of information about Clerodendrum inerme on the Internet. Kind regards, Joy

My 10 yr old son was diagnosed with PANS by an integrative medicine doctor by the name of Mae Kinaly in Irivine, CA. We live in Manhattan Beach in LA county. She did a ton of blood work, in depth history and immediately started him on azithromycin and supplements. She is a little kooky but I feel is a very in depth doctor with my son's best interests at heart. She does offer IVIG. We also went to Dr. Miroslav Kovacevic in Chiago for a second opinion and ultimately IVIG. Hope that helps.

Hello, My son has been suffering with PANS/PANDAS since age 8. He is now 14. He was diagnosed at age 11 by a PANDAS doctor after a few years of having standard mental health treatment without success. After two years of antibiotics he received IVIG and six week post-IVIG became significantly worse. Our doctor had never seen this before. We called Dr. K. in Chicago who said my son probably still had strep in his tonsils. We were unable to get a doctor to remove his tonsils based on the PANDAS diagnosis alone. One ENT gave him clindamycin which has a history of getting into tonsils better. His PANDAS doctor then ordered the Cunninham Panel which was negative. My son did not want to participate in their study. We were left with returning to conventional neurology for the tourette symptoms and psychiatry for the OCD. A new neurologist/psychiatrist (a conventional mainstream doctor) heard our story and thought we should try the IVIG again. We did a second round and my son improved greatly then after the third round he's like his old self (as much as I can remember him after all these years.) It feels like a miracle to me. Although he's not 100% better it's remarkable enough for everyone in his life to notice. I'm not sure what helped this time. Maybe the clindamycin before the IVIG? Do not give up based on a Cunningham Panel. It is still experimental. I was crying when the doctor told me it was negative and IVIG would not work for my son. I was certain it was PANDAS. They (Cunningham) are still looking for markers and the current panel does not cover all possible markers which is why they ask families to participate in the research to find new markers. If I had turned down the offer for more IVIG based on the other doctor's recommendation from the results of the Cunningham Panel my son would not be on his way back to wholeness today. His tics are almost completely gone after years of severe tics and anxiety is very low. Almost normal. Of course after years of being in the grips of PANDAS my son has much catching up to do with peers. We still have much healing to do. I'm not sure he will ever catch up but at least now he has a chance. Good luck to everyone. Eva

Thanks so much for the offer of help. I hadn't thought of mold and our old house had mold in their rooms (we moved 2 months ago). If you could send me the links to that information I would so appreciate it. My younger daughter had been test d for Lyme but it was negative. She had a condition that included low fevers, stomach pain, headaches, light sensitivity, and pain in her legs, so much so that she couldn't walk for over 14 months. Every 6 weeks or so something else would go wrong and it was truly awful. Especially because no one could/would help her. They just said it's not_____, and then I'd get a referral to the next doctor. Hence me totally ingoring my older daughter's beginning problems. The mold question gives me another avenue to pursue. Thanks

I know this is an older topic, but the easiest way to get IVIG approved is to read your policy and to go with what your policy says. PANDAS/PANS is almost always excluded. Immunodeficiency is almost always included in some way, shape or form. Whether your son meets the guidelines and what dosage he will qualify for depends on what your policy says and what your doctor orders. It may well be if he qualifies under an immunodeficiency section of the policy that your doctor can get them to approve HD IVIG on the basis that he also has an underlying autoimmune condition that would contraindicate low dose IVIG. Most IVIG policy provisions are updated yearly and there should be a date on the written IVIG coverage provisions to ensure you are dealing with the latest one.

It doesn't actually say that all of these kids remained symptom free. I only skimmed, but one shows a kid who kept getting strep with re-emergence of symptoms each time (patient E). After IVIG, at every new strep infection the ocd returned and the child went on on a treatment dose of augmentin for up to a month. It looks like the kid was on prophylactic antibiotics, too but was getting new strep infections/symptom re-emergence anyway. That's not to say that the IVIGs weren't beneficial or positive. But I wouldn't call this 100% symptom free since the child obviously still has PANDAS and continues to become symptomatic sporadically even while continuing on daily antibiotics.

Full immune panel (IgG, IgA, etc.), ASO (strep), anti dnase B (longer-term strep titer). I think methylation issues are a VERY worthwhile trail of exploration for someone your age dealing with these issues, and it appears from your signature line that you done that. So none of the interventions you're trying for the mutations has been effective? Wombat, I don't want to discourage you from exploring every available avenue, but as the mom of a now 18-year-old who was first diagnosed with OCD at age 6, didn't get a PANDAS diagnosis until age 12, responded very well to abx (brought him back from a totally dysfunctional brink), but continues to deal with some ongoing OCD and anxiety issues (though manageable) . . . I just want to encourage you to perhaps not get hung up on the testing and interventions tied to traditional PANDAS/PANs (rapid onset, pre-pubescent expression, abx, IVIG, etc.) and perhaps lean toward more "lifestyle" type interventions that will hopefully help make life more functional, more fun, and help you push away more of the OCD that interferes with your everyday life. If you do yet have underlying infection, be it lyme or strep, etc., then abx, IVIG, etc. will likely help you to an extent. (How long were the course of abx you've tried in the past? Can you get a longer-term prescription for them and journal your behavior patterns for a period of months? We found that, after the initial "burst" of palpable benefits, abx tended to yield more subtle improvements over time . . . perhaps unnoticeable to a majority of people, but by reading back through our journaling of things our DS used to do but didn't need to do anymore, or things he'd given up to the King OCD but had begun to resume as he improved). But just from our experience, having contended with OCD for as many years as you have, I would not want to lead you to believe that abx or IVIG will be a panacea -- a cure-all. And if either of them is to be effective, IMHO, given your age and the term of your dealing with this condition, I'd wager that that you would need a longer and/or more repetitive course of these medical interventions than might be the case for a younger, more recently diagnosed case (our DS took abx for about 2 years). Additionally, I would suggest dietary, supplements, ERP/CBT and perhaps even some prescription medications to help you gain more leverage over the OCD, even if only as temporary measures. In the end, the PANDAs tests and interventions turned our DS's life around, but even so, he continues to need supports. Whether that's because he was older and the anxiety/OCD was more entrenched by the time we determined the immune condition, or if it's because it's genetically part of who he is and the PANDAS just made it worse, I can't tell you. But I've made my peace with throwing everything at this monster that's at our disposal, and that methodology, in the end, has given my DS his life back. Keep fighting, keep searching and never say never! All the best to you!

when i was reading your post, i thought it was written by me!!! My child flipped on magnesium but flips on EVERYTHING we have tried. It turns out that she went crazy on everything because she had severe yeast/fungal issues. She is now on Amphoceterin and doing well and also tolerating more supplements/vitamins. It was a hellish 13 years and now we are finally seeing some results. Also possitve for lyme/bartonella. We treated her with the bactrim and mino. and she was a mess. Again, I think because yeast was out of control. Hope this helps.

My situation is probably unique. Yes, I have undiagnosed ts. Well, I saw a doctor once at age 21 and he prescribed clonidine. I took it for a while but it made me soooo tired that I just quit. Started ticcing around 7 and turned into full-blown ts around 14. It was never really addressed growing up other than my parents telling me to stop. I think they were just too embarrassed by the whole thing. They would threaten me by saying "if you don't stop by the end of this year, we are taking you to the doctor". I didn't want to be labeled as different or come to terms with the fact that there was something really wrong with me, so that scared me. I don't think that's all bad, however. I was very social and fine with my peers and am sort of glad I didn't have that "label". My late teen years and college were the worse, probably from stress. Sharing a dorm room was very difficult without having any privacy. I tried my hardest to control it and don't think I would have so much if it was out in the open and I think my symptoms would have been more rampid. I think it's an aweful and bizarre disorder to have in that you appear normal but have to contort you body in ways so you "feel" normal. It's been personally a difficult journey but in all actuality, I get along fine, aside from a small social anxiety issue. Nothing a glass of wine can't fix. My husband's mom has a chronic tic that comes and goes and his brother has chronic tic/OCD issues and my husband has some compulsive issues. None of them ever talk about it either. My husband's point of view is that everybody has something and no big deal. I don't think he knows how bad it can get and that's where I feel like I'm carrying all the stress, anxiety and burden. Even though he was with me since high school and has seen me for who I am, I've never talked about it with him so he has no idea what I've really gone through. I've gone on so long without talking about it that is seems like I have this huge secret. This forum is the only place I've ever talked about it and it feels so good knowing there is support out there. I keep waiting for the day that I have to have the "big talk" and I have no idea how he'll react. I think that is why, for me, the stress is doubled because I not only have to deal with my children's issues but the role I play in all of it. At this point, I don't even care about myself, I just want my kids to be healthy. I would take on symtoms a million times worse if it could spare them. I haven't ever mentioned the ticcing to my dd. I don't want to make her self-conscious about it and right now it's managable. It it worsens, then I'll deal with it then. Since my symptoms didn't worsen until I was 14, I'll be hanging on for a while. I struggle every day with the question of was it right to have children knowing I could pass this on to them. It's a gamble and 20 years from now I can better answer that.