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  1. 2 points
    bws1565

    Why not start antibiotics anyway

    Jumping in with a different perspective. Was your son vaccinated? Vaccine adjuvants are designed to cross the BBB, specifically aluminium. There was much discussion on this site that Pandas is a version of aluminum toxicity. With vaccines, the aluminum is designed to hold onto the antigen and keep it in the body long term; thereby introducing antigens into the brain as well. It is believed that detoxing from aluminum and mercury helps quiet the immune system. We have tried selenium for mercury, malic acid for aluminum and other stuff as well. She is probably not all clean, but definitely is aluminum sensitive- she cannot tolerate aluminum based deodorant. She is currently using Diatomaceous earth for a slow detox for everything. I think it is helping well. I have learnt about vaccine reactions about seven years ago, and have not vaccinated my kids since. I have 2 totally unvaccinated kids, and several partially vaccinated. It is a CRIME what pharma is doing to our kids without knowing the long term effects. I can honestly say, VACCINES ARE NOT WORTH IT! Which parent would not nurse a child through a bad case of pertussins or measles, and even sweat the time through the a hospitalization for physical problems versus dealing with what we are dealing with here?!!! Just venting my pain. I wish I would have known about this issue many many years ago.
  2. 1 point
    lw47

    Mycoplasma results

    Hi, my daughter has also struggled with PANS/ PANDAS and her mycoplasma titers have been elevated this year as well. She never tested positive for Lyme until she had a recent test through our LLMD, who has treated her in the past even though she just had indeterminate test results. She has also been treated effectively a few years ago with IVIG from a PANDAS specialist. It helped, but symptoms came back, and she was showing more fatigue and aching muscles the past year. My hunch was this is Lyme. So she saw the Lyme doctor again recently and she recommended this time that she get a urine Lyme test through DNA connections. It came back positive for Lyme, Bartonella , and Erlichia. I am so glad she had that test, and we could stop wondering whether Lyme was a factor or not. I’m frustrated that past diagnostic tests for Lyme weren’t positive and thus she continued to suffer. She is currently being treated for Lyme again, and Bartonella and Mycoplasma. There are new regimens the LLMDs are using for persistent/ chronic Lyme, including Disuliram, which is still experimental but showing promise, and a combination of Dapsone along with other antibiotics such as minocycline and rifampin. None of these approaches are easy, but they are reports of people getting better after 3 months with Disulfiram, and a few months or more of Dapsone protocols. I STRONGLY recommend you get the Lyme panel DNA Connexions test. It is not cheap- 650 dollars, but you don’t need a doctor’s order- you go online and pay and they will mail you the kit. There are too many people walking around with Lyme that are undiagnosed. Lyme can manifest as predominantly neuropsychiatric symptoms in children as well. I don’t work for the company I’m just a mom that has dealt with this was for too long, and now I think there may be hope for kids and adults with Lyme Your doctor- even some PANDAS docs and most PCPS- won’t even be aware of this test Good luck!
  3. 1 point
    maryangela

    Mycoplasma results

    My DS responded very well to Clarithromycin after showing high Mycoplasma titers. It’s common for kids to get yeast issues from antibiotics even while taking probiotics, so it’s important they have the probiotic 2 or 3 times a day. Be sure to space the probiotic at least 2 hours away from antibiotic. I’ve used Gutpro (expensive) and Jarrow (reasonable). I wouldn’t skimp and use a generic grocery store or drug store brand. Yeast can cause issues itself. I also give my DS a yeast control supplement, especially while on abx, and for a few weeks after. We’ve used Candicid Forte and OrthoFlora yeast support (Protocol for Life Balance). I’m sure Whole Foods also sells yeast control supplements. I prayer that your daughter finally gets some relief from the abx. Keep us posted.
  4. 1 point
    I have past positive test results for Lyme, Bartonella, Babesia, Relapsing Fever (B. Hermsii), Rickettsia. I spent the past year treating these infections with antibiotics and herbals and two IVIGs. I have never had any physical symptoms of the above whatsoever, in fact I have managed to stay very fit and workout 5 days per week throughout most of my treatment. All my symptoms are psychiatric PANDAS/PANS-like (24/7 extreme social anxiety, depression, obsessive thoughts/worries). Whenever I have treated any of my Lyme, co-infections and candida, I get a significant increase in my PANS symptoms along with some fatigue (never physical pain). I also don't really feel I ever improve with detoxing (epsom bath, alka seltzer gold, detox supplements, etc.). I have alway been under the impression that this is a herx, but I came across this article and thought it would be relevant to share: http://lymemd.blogspot.com/2017/08/autoimmune-encephalitis-and-lyme.html Based on this, "herxing" that lasts weeks on weeks and months on months and doesn't improve or change isn't actually herxing. It is continual triggering of the autoimmune response which is not helpful or beneficial at all. I was always under the impression that my feeling worse with increased PANS symptoms was the Lyme/co-infections dying off. Now I am thinking that all of that "herxing" may not have been necessary. Chances are, even though I have/had these infections present (and as we know you should treat infections BEFORE immune therapy/IVIG/PEX), my immune system was strong enough to hold them at bay and my only issue was the PANS autoimmune component. I hope this may be helpful for other people who have been in the same predicament as I was and if anyone has any insight on this I'd much appreciate it. Is my thought process above correct? Having just finished 7 sessions of plasma exchange, I am about to embark on 6 months of monthly IVIG and my plan is to avoid stirring the pot and re-triggering any autoimmune response while my body adapts to the IVIGs. For me, this is looking like using Buhner's more gentle approach to keep any remaining Lyme/co-infections in check without triggering my immune system into reacting and exacerbating my PANS symptoms. It has been a miserable road for me, especially in my early 20s when the rest of my friends have moved on and finished college and started their lives. I have yet to see any improvement and it has been 3 weeks since PEX. Only way to go is forward.
  5. 1 point
    Hi I think perhaps you are referring to B12 not B6? For B12 the methyl form is better than the cyano form
  6. 1 point
    I've been dealing with tics since my childhood. I am 24 years old. I've tried tons of methods. I've found 2 good ways by myself to reduce tics. I have Neck moving right and left, breath out many times loudly and tighten my legs etc. So I've tried to push tics away, not responding any pressure any tics but made worse and then I've tried to direct my tics. Let me explain with my poor english. First tip; My goal is reducing "visibility". Because i'm tired stopping tics completely. When I feel the pressure to "breath out or neck moving"(more visible tics) i tighten my legs(less visible side). It's like guied the tics over my legs. I feel like the energy want to comes out so i let the legs do the job until feel relaxed. When I tighten my legs 2 or 3 second the pressure was gone and in public that would be less visible. Second tip; I've directed myself to do all tics "only" at home. I've worked on this about months. I've hold my tics in public or school. If I can't hold the tics anymore. I go to toilet or some place that I can be alone I release my tics and when i feel relaxed i move on. So when I get home I don't do over thinking about tics , I do tics so hard I've never stop any pressure, I do all tics and realesed myself. I am 24 , it took almost 18 years I've reduced %60 percent of my tics. Last of all being overweight and drinking too much coffee increase my tics so i walk 20 minutes everyday and drink coffee once a week.
  7. 1 point
    Stacie M

    Hand strength

    Oh this is so helpful! I will definitely be doing this tonight. Thank you!
  8. 1 point
    Thank you both for your kind words. This feels so lonely. We have a neuro appointment on 15th, but who knows what they tell us. It seems nobody really knows much about tics and first advice is wait and watch. Sigh. I am taking him to the zoo today to try and forget for a while. I bought the book already!
  9. 1 point
    Hi Sunflower78 So sorry to hear of what you are going through. As a mom who was in that same state of anguish almost 20 years ago, I absolutely understand. But I so agree with Sheila that you should not blame yourself. There are so many possible causative factors that can trigger tics. We can beat ourselves up, or we can focus on trying to find the best ways to make things better. It was thanks to Sheila and this forum that I was able to follow the latter course, and thankfully things started to improve for my son. In our case, my son does have a genetic TS component, but even so, many things we learned here made such a difference in helping to manage his tics. I do think your pediatrician may be way too quick to say Tourettes! Unfortunately many mainstream physicians really are not keeping up with so much info that is around about other possible tic triggers. I am at work so I can only do a quick reply now, but I would greatly encourage you to just start reading up on as much info here as possible and also on the main ACN/Latitudes website https://latitudes.org/ Sheila's books and articles have been a tremendous help to so many as well!
  10. 1 point
    Hi Sunflower78--welcome to the Forums. You sound like a wonderful mom and all the efforts you have made to stay green, breastfeed and eat clean have no doubt helped your son. Please don't assume it was the vaccines or that you did anything wrong. Many, MANY kids have symptoms just like your boy. Sometimes they go away on their own, sometimes it takes extra steps to find the cause and then go from there. You are right that there is no way this could be considered Tourette's (Geez!). I apologize that I am out of town and have to get off the computer but will check in soon. Don't despair, there are lots of things that can be done to help your son. Others on the Forum can help also. Best wishes, Sheila
  11. 1 point
    We found the best B6 to use was the activated P-5-P form. European Union countries outlawed the food dyes and other dangerous additives a while back! Shocks me that this country hasn't especially as natural food dyes do the job well without the danger! (eg beets, blueberries etc.) M&Ms in England have these natural colourings so there is no real reason imo that they can;t use them here too!
  12. 1 point
    Yes, chlorine was a major tic trigger for my son! Even though it didn't show in his list of actual allergies, more detailed testing showed he was very very sensitive to it, as to many other chemicals. Later testing confirmed he has MCS (Multiple Chemical Sensitivity) which is why both environmental and food additive chemicals impact him so intensely, including chemical perfumed/fragranced items etc I found some excellent online resources over the years to make my own household products, and always select fragrance free/dye free options for laundry, toiletries etc and of course no artificial food dyes or other artificial food additives.
  13. 1 point
    MAMA3

    Tics and use of essential oils?

    Hope36, I am so glad you saw our post. We started noticing certain foods would make his tics more noticeable & more out of control. We started removing all processed meats, especially hotdogs & brawts. We found these always made his tics flare up. We also cut out pizza, except for gluten free. We don’t believe he has a gluten allergy. However, most gluten free foods are also more natural with no preservatives & additives, which we believe affect our son. We also never eat Chinese food because of the MSG in it. It makes his tics awful. I buy only breads that state no high fructose corn syrup & it doesn’t seem to bother our son. I buy Healthy Life whole wheat bread at Walmart & also Sara Lee brand has some bread that is labeled no high fructose corn syrup. If we buy sandwich meat, turkey or ham, I buy Oscar Mayer Natural. It will show no artificial ingredients & no nitrates, which are additives to preserve longer. Our son likes peanut butter & Jelly so he eats that at school & we send lightly salted Pringles & organic granola bars. We also send organic annie’s Chocolate chip cookies a few days a week. I have also found that Kraft Mac & cheese does not affect him since they’ve removed the preservatives, etc. The Kraft Mac n cheese bowls are easy too. We mainly stick to all fresh fruits & vegetables & we cook at home primarily so we know what is in his food. I know it’s overwhelming, but over time it won’t be. Mainly stick to fresh fruits & veggies. Also we use Young Living oils because they are more pure. You should be able to find a local contact who may sell them in your area. I hope this helps & we are always here! Hugs
  14. 1 point
    maryangela

    Is this pandas

    We found 3 doctors in Illinois that immediately (after seeing bloodwork) recognized this as PANDAS and/or Autoimmune Encephalitis). Unfortunately none accepted DS medical coverage. The first said that if we could not get insurance to pay for IVIG, we needed to “beg, borrow or steal” to get it, or he would be institutionalized. By this time we had already gone through our savings (including retirement savings) due to unpaid time off and unpaid medical expenses. We used crowd funding to pay for first IVIG. We saw immediate improvement, but it was not lasting. We stopped seeing first two PANDAS MDs, mostly due to location, cost and accessibility. Third MD ordered Cunningham Panel and was able to get IVIG covered under AE. Although this doctor does not take DS insurance, IVIG is considered a prescription and it is covered. I sometimes see on these posts that a child may only need 1 or 2 IVIGs. This was not the case for my DS (possibly because the illness went untreated for so many years). For your daughter, 1 or 2 may work. Read the book “Saving Sammy”. Beth Maloney’s son was cured with antibiotics alone, but again his illness went untreated for maybe a year or so. I think that’s what makes the difference. I believe it’s important to find a doctor experienced in PANDAS/PANS, not just someone who is open to the possibility and willing to give you antibiotics for a period of time.
  15. 1 point
    MAMA3

    Tics and use of essential oils?

    I know exactly what you are feeling. I spent day & night trying to find hope, trying to find anything to help our son. I was very sad, so scared & very angry some days. I prayed daily God would take it from him & give it to me. I didn’t want to talk to anyone about it either & I was extra protective of him. I was so thankful I found the post regarding oils. It gave us our son back emotionally. He struggled so much at school. I also had a talk with all the parents we knew from school. I explained to them what he was dealing with and asked them to talk to their kids(his close friends) & explain to them he can’t control it & how hard it was on him for everyone to constantly ask what was wrong with him. They stopped asking & they actually started watching out for him if someone was ugly too. The oils helped so much with his emotions & also helped him relax more at night. I recommend the lavender & peace and calming at night. The valor promotes courage & strength & along with stress away helps to relax him at school without making him sleepy. The vetiver helps to relax their brain/mind, again without making them tired. I also wanted to mention that we also tried the magnesium supplements, but stopped after his bloodwork showed he was not deficient on any vitamins/minerals. I know what you’re feeling & you’re not alone. I now tell our story on Facebook & have had people reach out to me also. I once felt like I shouldn’t talk about it & that no one would understand, but it helps so much to reach out like you have. We need to educate each other & share our stories & show others that there are more natural approaches. As my husband mentioned earlier, I also recommend you meet with a neurologist just to get clarification. We had bloodwork to make sure he was not missing key vitamins & minerals. The Guanfacine tablet does make a difference. Our son is proof that it is possible to have tics & still have a happy, normal life. I am here if you need anything, or have any questions.
  16. 1 point
    cmac

    Need to vent

    Maybe a PANS/PANDAS specialist could do a Skype/phone consult and at least give you a script for all the blood work? Also this thread has info on doctors people here have seen and I think various states are mentioned.
  17. 1 point
    maryangela

    Need to vent

    I know that “inexpensive” supplements can add up, but we also used 5-HTP for our DS. It was recommended by an otherwise unhelpful psychiatrist. This was when DS was at crisis level. Need to use on empty stomach. I was able to get DS to and from bloodwork appointment on public transportation because of the 5-HTP. I don’t recall why we stopped using it. This was in 2016. I believed we stopped a couple months later when we finally found a doctor to prescribe high dose of Augmentin. What form is your Oil of Oregano? Again, we saw improvement, but used a high dose. 15 drops of undiluted 5x a day (mixed with orange juice). Something else we use as antibacterial and anti inflammatory is tea made from ginger root. I grate a hunk of ginger root and steep it in boiling water, then strain. It’s pretty spicy, but we like it. We’ve been chilling it and using as an alternative to unsweetened iced tea. At the risk of bombarding you with information, those were a few things I thought of.
  18. 1 point
    Robinhubb

    Need to vent

    Yes we just used a doctor thst didnt use my insurance...he just ran strep teiter thats it. Called my kid crazy and left. Im not totally against phych drugs but thats what drs immediately put her on because they dont know whats wrong. Frustrating!!!!! Ty so much. I know we will get thru but being in the storm is always rough
  19. 1 point
    maryangela

    Need to vent

    My heart breaks for you and your family. Since your DD’s onset is recent, there should be so much hope...if only the doctor’s weren’t working against you. What bloodwork did they run? Did they check for Mycoplasma Pneumonia? We spent years trying to find someone to evaluate our DS for PANDAS/PANS. Ultimately we used doctors that don’t accept our coverage or any coverage.
  20. 1 point
    prestopony

    Supplements

    I'm sorry you're having trouble getting a doc to help, it's so frustrating. This board was so helpful to me. Like many kids, my 15 year old daughter was diagnosed with PANS after many years of suffering. She is on a lot of supplements, so it's hard to know which ones are really successful! We use: Enhansa for inflammation - follow the guidelines for slow introduction, we noticed a big herx as is said might happen. For anxiety, we use CDB oil and Lithium oratate. Her 23 and me showed folate issues, so she takes Methyl Assist. Magnesium Citrate along with Buffered Vitamin C for constipation (as needed, which used to be all the time at the beginning of treatment!) - I can't stress enough the brain/gut connection to think about during treatment. She takes Thera-lac probiotic too And Super Lysine Plus for immunity support. To balance out the stress of so many years of anxiety and poor sleep we use Cortisol Manger, and Seriphos - I think these are at the bottom of the list of what I think has really been helpful though And, she is on the low-FODMAP diet Upon initial diagnoses, her PANS doc put her on Augmentin which was amazing. Came off of it, flared, tried Zithromicin, didn't work, went back on another month of Augementin, came off of it, and stayed well. During flares, unless her bloodwork shows something, we use a month of Naproxen (regular over-the-counter Aleve) - and it works beautifully. So, treating the inflammation seems to be key during flares. I would think also that a too-short supply of antibiotics is not going to help. Now, my son, who does not have PANS that I know of, but is suddenly dealing with extreme intrusive thoughts and OCD (my daughter's was just EXTREME separation anxiety and EXTREME generalized anxiety) I'm taking what I know about inflammation and scouring this board for help - and trying some things with him: NAC - an amino acid that has had some documented success helping OCD in larger doses L-Theanine - another amino acid that promotes relaxation and calms the brain and elevates GABA and serotonin I just started him on Enhansa last week. Reason being we just found out that he's allergic to EVERYTHING - grass, trees, weeds, mold, dust, cats, chickens (we have eight), dogs (we have three) guinea pigs (we have two). So he has started allergy shots, but in the meantime I can only think that there is inflammation in him from all of these undetected allergies. His probiotic is called Mood-Super strains - with strains that are geared specifically towards anxiety and depression I just learned about this product yesterday from my sister-in-law. My son's cousin, who has OCD, takes 5-htp (another amino acid) and he says it helps a great deal. She uses the Natrol brand. He does not take any pharma for his OCD/anxiety, and said when he stopped taking the 5-htp he noticed he felt a lot worse, so he now takes it again. As far as pharma for my daughter for her anxiety, we held out as long as we could, but she became unsafe and jumped out of a moving car. So we eventually we put her on an SSRI - it worked a bit, but never really well, so we switched to another, it also worked a bit but never really well, so we added in another, which, as expected, worked a bit, but never really well. Fast forward to a year after PANS diagnoses, and this truckload of supplement she takes!, she is off of all pharma, she took a class at the local high-school (and I didn't have to sit in the class with her, lol!), she now sleeps over at friends houses, and is enrolled in the Community College for the fall. So while the psych meds helped a bit, they were not the final answer for us. Sending you good thoughts for your daughter - and lots of good thoughts for you too! Hang in there mom!
  21. 1 point
    maryangela

    Follow up blood work

    After suffering with OCD and intrusive thoughts for over 3 1/2 years, we finally were able to get a rheumatologist to prescribe a high dose of Augmentin for 30 days for our DS in 2016. During the 3 1/2 years we tried unsuccessfully to treat his symptoms with pharmaceutical meds. The doctor let us start the abx before his bloodwork came back, which ultimately showed normal Strep titers. She said we may continue the abx for the 30 days if we chose to. He had no response for the first ten days, but on day 11 or so his symptoms began to rapidly improve. Again, his bloodwork had come back normal. I think if the infection was too far in the past it doesn’t show up on the bloodwork, although the misfired antibodies continue to attack the brain. The Cunningham Panel is what got the PANS diagnosis for my DS. With PANS, there are 3 things to address: the infection, the inflammation and the immune response.
  22. 1 point
    cmac

    New diagnosis

    My son had a major flare this past February after a dental cleaning and two teeth falling out/then almost immediately the adult teeth came through. It lasted several weeks and was the worst episode we had seen since the initial onset. And my heart goes out to you regarding the intrusive thoughts--they were one of my son's hardest symptoms. He would sob in the middle of doing something or talking to us because they were tormenting him. Night time was the worst. He was so miserable and it took a long, long time for him to share some of the thoughts--basically he was afraid he was going to hurt us. I just kept reassuring him that there was nothing he could think that would make me or his father love him any less. And I kept reminding him that these thoughts were not him. I had him picture a stop sign in his head and then say to himself "I'm having an OCD thought about . . ." Also, grounding himself in the physical world helped. Tapping his feet slowly and calmly in a rhythm or focusing on three blue things he could see in the room and three things he could hear and three things he could feel with his hands--basically having him use his 5 senses to reground himself in the physical world instead of feeling trapped in his head. It is overwhelming--but you will start to find methods that help her.
  23. 1 point
    maryangela

    New diagnosis

    My DS’s first major sudden onset of OCD at age 8, happened within 48 hours of dental work. The conventional psychiatrist he first saw said it was possibly triggered by the Nitrous Oxide. Apparently it can deplete vitamin B6 or B12 (can’t remember which). She threw that theory out the window after his labs showed no B Vitamin deficiencies. Years later, another PANDAS mom informed me that dental work is a common trigger for PANS/PANDAS. It can unleash hidden bacteria. Now my DS starts an antibiotic a few days before dental appointment (even cleaning), and continues for 2 weeks after appointment. I’ve been skipping the fluoride treatments for him. The dentist disagrees, but I don’t want to take any chances.
  24. 1 point
    bigmighty

    New diagnosis

    Are you doing anything anti-inflammatory? Try ibuprofen 3x a day for a week and see if it helps. Or try turmeric 2x a day. If she does even slightly better while inflammation is reduced, it's helpful to know, as it suggests something autoimmune is involved. Steroid tapers have helped my son several times. If you can convince a doc to prescribe them for a couple of weeks, that may be something worth pursuing. So sorry you are going through this. Sending virtual hugs.
  25. 1 point
    bws1565

    New diagnosis

    We are having good success with homeopathic remedies. I've been to a homeopath 4 months ago. She put DD onto a annual program, with the remedies being changed about monthly. We are currently moving onto month 4, and thankfully seeing good results. This is not a quick fix though.
  26. 1 point
    cmac

    Follow up with doctor

    I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this—it’s heartbreaking and overwhelming. My now 8 year old son was diagnosed last August—his triggers were strep and myco p. He was on daily antibiotics for months —several different ones and combo ones too—before we started to see improvement. He battled anxiety and OCD—rituals and intrusive thoughts. Has she been tested for myco p? I know you said you’re in TX—maybe a PANDAS doc could do a phone consult with you and order blood tests that your local pediatrician could do? And unfortunately most of the PANDAS specialists don’t take insurance and do cost a fortune! Oh, and not sure if this really helped or just coincided with him getting better, but cutting out gluten and dairy seemed to make a difference. They both can inflame the body and since PANS/PANDAS is an autoimmune disorder it makes sense. As it was explained to me the problem is two fold—getting rid of the infection and bringing down the inflammation. Also does she seem to get any relief from Motrin? That can help with inflammation too. Good luck. You will get through this.
  27. 1 point
    maryangela

    New diagnosis

    Let me know how the CBD oil works. There is also a supplement called NAC that we had some success with. There was a Yale clinical trial for OCD with NAC. You may want to ask her new doctor about it. The dose for the clinical trial was 900mg 3x a day. My son stopped taking it a few months ago, because he was tired of taking supplements, but recently said he wants to start it up again. It’s easy to find...Whole Foods, etc.
  28. 1 point
    Sheila

    Help form China

    Hi Jasmina, Your English is very good and we were happy to hear from you! It is good to learn that you have found a way to get help for your son. You have made some good starts. I'm sorry not to be able to give you suggestions on amounts of supplements for detox but can say that the amount you are giving of B6 is quite low, nothing to be concerned about; (you can check with your doctor about using more). Some people need to take it with food to avoid stomach upset. In addition to the approaches you are using I wanted to mention that it is important to avoid potential triggers that may be affecting him. Triggers include diet and also things in the environment. We have a book, Stop Your Tics by Learning What Trigger Them -- and it was just translated into Chinese. The concept is that if there is something aggravating his system, it is best if it can be avoided and this will also help other approaches be more beneficial. The publisher gave me these two links for the book in case you are interested. I don't know how it works with you being in China and trying to order from Taiwan, but I hope this could be of some help to you (please let us know if you decide to do it): FROM THE PUBLISHER: You could find the complex Chinese edition on our official website:https://www.wunan.com.tw/bookdetail?NO=14327 Or on Books.com.tw:https://www.books.com.tw/products/0010820544 (Books.com.tw is the biggest online bookstore in Taiwan) We are looking forward to hearing back from you, Jasmina and hope you can find all the answers your son needs, Sheila
  29. 1 point
    I agree that antibiotics will not completely eradicate PANDAS. I made the mistake of thinking they would 12 years ago. I had PANDAS back in 2007 when I was 11 years old. Did 8 months of penicillin and my symptoms completely disappeared for 10 years. Once I was in college they came roaring back and I am having a lot more difficulty recovering this time around. So no. Antibiotics are a temporary solution. You can get rid of strep with them but with another exposure your immune system still will create autoantibodies that will attack your brain if not dealt with promptly. Don't make my mistake - do the IVIG even after you feel better from antibiotics to retrain your immune system so future strep infections will be significantly less likely to trigger the autoimmune mess and PANDAS.
  30. 1 point
    I think it depends on your age. I have had two episodes of PANDAS in my life. First was when I was 11 years old. Sudden vocal repetitions of phrases when spoken to and lots of hand washing OCD. I was a happy, not anxious, middle schooler and I felt mostly normal - I just had these vocal tics and OCD. I went to school but made accommodations with my teachers not to call on me in class and my parents explained to my friends what was going on. This went away slowly with 6 months of antibiotics and I was in remission for 10 years. I went on to be a recruited division 1 athlete at a top 5 university and was happy, popular, and felt like the luckiest person in the world. I thought I was done with PANDAS. Now I am in my early 20s and battling a much stronger PANDAS/PANS relapse. I have no tics or OCD at all just debilitating social anxiety, depression and obsessive thoughts/worries (which are actually considered a form of OCD) that came out of nowhere three years ago and slowly built up in intensity until I had to leave college. This time around has been more challenging as Lyme and co-infections are involved and I haven't gotten better yet after a year of antibiotics. I think older PANDAS patients experience more amygdala-based inflammation (mood/anxiety issues) whereas kids experience more basal ganglia-based inflammation (tics/OCD). Just my two cents.
  31. 1 point
    Chemar

    Possible PANS/PANDAS or Tourette's

    Hi there I just wanted to welcome you to the forum tho sorry for your child's struggles. Hopefully parents more knowledgeable than me re PANS/PANDAS will soon reply, but my understanding is that Tourette Syndrome and PANDAS are not mutually exclusive, and that yes, some kids are dx TS when in fact it is PANS
  32. 1 point
    mmw

    Does PANDAS always have OCD and tics?

    When my son was young we thought he was very sensitive and had a difficult temperament. He eventually did get tics, hallucinations, you name it every time he had strep but before that he was just a VERY difficult child when it turned out he had strep. Like having to be physically pulled out of the car at preschool. He never quite seemed to know how to act either- lots of social issues. We treated with abx for years and did Brain Balance and all of his aspie symptoms went away. When he did have an episode of rage it turned out his younger sister had a simmering strep infection. He is now 18, totally healed, sweetest and the most laid back guy you would ever hope to meet. It was the PANDAS. It is gone .
  33. 1 point
    mdl, We knew our daughter had processing issues when she was 2 years old. But we never really thought of pandas. I think of some of these conditions are connected to a compromised, or hypersensitive immune system. So PANDAS is probably a side effect of something else, rather then the cause of all of this. The OCD was sort of as you described. Like if a child hit her, she might tell that story as her greeting statement as if it just happened. "Ellie hit me, right here on the arm" for months after it happened. But that might be the only sign. When the PANDAS hit, she suddenly wouldn't go to some restaurants, checked the locks at night, was terrified of bridges, limited diets, no one could say "blood" without her freaking. I literally had to read her science book to her and replace the word "blood" with "red stuff." But things are much better. There was a freaky event back in October where we went to a restaurant and the wall (2 stories high) was literally covered with spiders. Anyone using the handrail would have gotten hundreds, maybe thousands of spiders on them. She couldn't see them in the dim light, so I told her to stay away from the wall. So she looked closer. Ran to the car and screamed and cried for an hours. We just went back to that restaurant yesterday for the first time. So, even with the PANDAS being low key, it took her months to process that event enough to go back.
  34. 1 point
    When I was young, I used to take apart old computers, turn them on, and then watch what happened as I took my ground probe and touched different circuits. I could get all sorts of colorful patterns on the screen, but oddly, never the same pattern twice. I think PANDAS is a little like that. The immune system goes crazy and generally in a predictable way. But it's also different with everyone and even within the same person, it changes. I know my daughter has pandas, but right now, I wouldn't say that she is really OCD. She has been really bad in the past, but right now, it doesn't hamper us too much. To me, most mental issues come down to identity. If something in my daughter's day implies that she is stupid or fat, she gets super distressed, even suicidal, filled with rage, and then depression. This is tricky because kids aren't dumb. If you do too much for them, they think they are stupid and that can trigger a downward spiral. But, if you don't do enough, or imply that they need to do more, it can trigger that they are not loved, and BOOM. I think, because of the increased sensitivity because of the over-active brains stuff, destructive mental loops can be very harsh on these kids. I try to set rules that are "necessary" and be pretty lax on other stuff. My daughter likes to change clothes 10x a day, then complain there isn't anything to wear. Convincing she that wearing something twice, if worn for a short time is OK, has been tough, but laundry is once a week. She has to work within that. She doesn't like it, but she doesn't freak out anymore. I don't lie to my kid, but I think of things to say that can build her self esteem back up. Getting her to realize that she WILL get her feelings hurt and need to continue on has been tough. Just today, some off handed put down from her cyber school teacher had her in a tizzy for 15 minutes. But, it was only 15 minutes and not 6 hours (or even days) like it has been in the past. Suicidal feelings are actually confused survival instincts. When the consciousness feels like it has changed too much from what it was, or has been rejected by those it loves, it wants to hit the reset button, (assuming its self immortal (which is another discussion.)) So, the suicidal expressions can really require some quick reassurances that you still love them and even if this stuff is really crazy, you will always love them. It can seem like you are carrying a lot of their personal responsibility for self preservation, but having gone through this, that is something that you can teach later.
  35. 1 point
    Note: This has been approved for posting by Forum administration. For any that contributed to this genetic study that we posted here (and elsewhere) - thank you so much! The cutoff was last night, and we had a great result - 71 sets of data. I will post some tidbits of "aggregate" results here (and in the other groups this was put in). I am wary of posting full results on facebook, because then facebook could claim some ownership. Instead, full analysis results (data in aggregate form only) will eventually be posted here: https://osf.io/pf7q2/?view_only=ba9efeabb38e4a22adced3b5ba4dc5a5 That link above is live to the public now, and you can see (in the last revision of a registration plan), what are the 78 SNPs that we have looked at. We are going to look at many more SNPs, though, and do lots more analysis than what is listed there. The plan was just to lay out in advance what we could declare as significant in this pilot study.
  36. 1 point
    Hi My son with TS/Crohn's had abx sensitivity and we found Olive Leaf Extract, Monolaurin (Lauric Acid), Oil Of Oregano (capsules) and other natural antimicrobials very helpful, including dietary garlic, honey etc. I don't have experience with these and PANDAS
  37. 1 point
    mamafour

    Information about Plasma Exchange

    Our daughter was treated with plasmapheresis in 2017. She has pandas/Pans but not Lyme (we think?). She was typically treated adequately with antibiotics but for whatever reason we couldn’t get that one flare under control with abx or prednisone, so we went looking for ivig. .. The immunologist we found had more success in his patients with plasmapheresis than ivig. Our daughter’s symptoms were severe at this point. It is also often easier to get insurance coverage for plasmapheresis than ivig, which is curious to me. For all these reasons, we went with plasmapheresis, and would do it again in a heartbeat. I cannot express how life-changing it was. (Two years out we may be needing it again, and if we do, I will be nothing but optimistic going into it.) We are in VA so I don’t think I can help as far as who can treat near you. However, don’t take the “it’s impossible to get in CA” and just give up.... start making phone calls. Call area hospitals and ask if they do plasmapheresis at ALL, regardless of reason. Ask which immunologists order it. Work backwards from there. You are at an advantage because of your son’s age, as the issue is often finding an apheresis unit with the capability of treating a peds patient. Your son is not a peds patient so you already don’t have that barrier! I do not have experience with Lyme related to plasmapheresis. Also don’t take the “insurance won’t cover” without checking your plan on your own. You can call and ask if the cpt code is covered (I don’t have it in front of me but could find it) and whether it needs preauth. Don’t give up. Hope I helped or at least gave hope. Good luck.
  38. 1 point
    jmmorgan44

    Tics and use of essential oils?

    Hi Chris - I just wanted to thank you for your post. My husband and I are going through something similar. Our 7 year old son was recently diagnosed with transient tic disorder. His tics are eye rolls and head twitches. While we are still very early on in this process and continue to learn more and more each day, it was frustrating to leave our appointment with our neurologist last week with no recommendation of what we could do to help our son. I've been doing some research on some more holistic approaches we can take, and was so glad to see your post and read up on what's been helping your family. I hope your success continues - this post gave me a lot of hope!
  39. 1 point
    evemac

    Tics or tourettes

    I know it's hard not to despair, but my son who is now 14 was diagnosed when you was 5. We did so much for him: diet/vitamin protocol, Occupational therapy, chiropractic work, meds, CBIT, and I would say to some extent, all of these interventions helped. He feels pretty comfortable talking about having Tourettes and while he did have some difficulty with peers on occasion and I had to actually request a 504 by 8th grade to deal with the dysgraphia, I also give his teachers a well written article on disinhibition and what that could look like in class. I think advocacy and self-advocacy is important to our children with TS. Unfortunately, people still don't really understand it but the best news is is my son has gone through this and is a strong academic and athlete and what's even more important than that is that he likes who he is! Keep up the good fight. I remember crying at night with him when he was ticcing so hard he couldn't sleep. I have been there! You are not alone! Eve
  40. 1 point
    gpookie

    will Normal return?

    I wish I had words of encouragement. What you described is exactly my husband. For 20 years since I met him, he exhibited odd behavior, zero executive function, cognitive deficits and arrogance and ODD through the roof. After I nearly had a nervous breakdown five years ago, he had some psych testing: extreme ADHD and NPD. However, with his 4 PANDAS kids ( 2 from a previous marriage), I had him tested for Lyme. Lit up like a xmas tree. Also PANDAS. His whole life is one drama to the next, yet he sees it all as something being done to HIM, while anyone he comes into contact with suffers. He is being treated for everything, but unfortunately with treatment for Lyme, Pandas, etc., those symtpoms have gotten better, and he regularly goes to therapy, but the NPD (arrogance, self focus, lack of empathy, etc.) Is increasing in leaps and bounds.
  41. 1 point
    Chemar

    Detox besides epsom salt bath?

    Chinese cupping is also used for detox, and there are other detox herbal & juice remedies and treatments available. Drinking warm fresh lemon juice water is one of the simplest (hot water with juice of a small lemon or 1/2 large one) Add a spoon or 2 of honey if needed, but plain is best imo
  42. 1 point
    bobh

    Dr. K Interview, IVIG & Question

    Hello newfie (are you living on The Rock, or settled elsewhere?): Our son did get better without IVIG. But he had a lot of abx (that helped), a steroid burst (that didn't), ibuprofen (that didn't), some SSRI (very very low dose, that helped dramatically once at that low dose, didn't later) and plenty of supplements. One thing that scared us about IVIG is, that after going through the expense and trouble, there seems to be the possibility of regression after getting strep again. At least, there are some stories to that effect (I'm sure if you searched IVIG in this forum, you would find all kinds of experience). I subscribe to "try low hanging fruit first". That is, simple relatively inexpensive things that might deliver gains of significance. One of them is ibuprofen (but you can't continue a high dose for a long time - this is just a rescue protocol). Another that is even lower hanging fruit (because it is so cheap and easy to do, and not harmful at sensible doses) is to have him drink baking soda and water every day. I didn't try this (our son was better before I heard of it), but I would have had I known, based on the research behind this article: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/04/180425093745.htm . We did try various supplements, and we did find one (phosphatidylcholine) that did help our son (but doesn't help everyone). With supplements, I would be very careful - some make some kids worse. Our kid got worse on probiotics, and I have since found that this is not that uncommon among PANS/PANDAS kids. So there is lots to try even while you book and wait for an IVIG appointment if that is what you want to do.
  43. 1 point
    Sheila

    will these tics ever go away?

    Hi mlee, and welcome to the forums. I'm sorry that your son has been having some tics. Seeking help from a good naturopathic doctor is a great step to take. I hope you will let us know what foods come up as problematic. That should give you some good direction. You can also ask this person for suggestions on nutrient supplements. Charting is also a terrific step, though I know it can seem overwhelming, as you say. It will get easier with time. Keep it up--but also, only take on as much as you can without stressing yourself too much. If your son has a problem with gluten-- and not everyone with tics does -- it can take some time for improvement to be seen. I would give it a couple of weeks, and even then do not expect a dramatic change immediately as it can be a gradual change, and there may be other issues going on as well. Our organization has a new book out on tracking down triggers for tics. You might find it useful. Also, I think it would encourage you, because you asked if people are able to get the tics under control, and yes, many do and some of their accounts are in this book. But it can take a comprehensive effort, not just one or two things that usually bring about all the change. Have you already had a chance to make other changes in the diet like avoiding artificial colors, flavors and preservatives in food and drink? What we have found is that a three-pronged approach can often help: 1) dietary change, 2) avoiding allergens (is your child or immediate family allergic?) and 3) avoiding toxic products typically used in the home like bleach, scented products, pesticides. In addition to the above, you want to be sure there is not an underlying infection. Please get back to us and let us know a little more and also what the naturopath suggests about the food testing. And you should definitely have hope! You have already taken some very positive steps.
  44. 1 point
    Joyle

    Where to find Clerodendrum Inerme extract?

    Hi everyone, Yes, the plant Clerodendrum inerme does work to reduce tics and other comorbids very effectively. We have discovered it doesn't work for everyone but it has helped many. The Facebook group is called Natural Care for Tics and Tourettes. There are lengthy discussions there about this plant which we have nicknamed cleo. It can be taken as a green juice or in capsules after dehydrating and powdering the leaves or as a tincture or as a homeopathic remedy. The only restriction is you will need to source the plant and grow it in a pot or your own backyard. The safety profile of the plant is exemplary. Please also do your own research to satisfy yourselves .... there is a wealth of information about Clerodendrum inerme on the Internet. Kind regards, Joy
  45. 1 point
    Hi bobh, Thanks for the reply. After reading Shiela's book on Natural treatment for TS, I started to dig into the blood test that the hospital did for my son. I found out that the strep Titer level was only at 200, which means negative for strep infection for my son. So thinking back, it was possible that the abx (penicillin) might have aggregated the tics. Anyway, since my last post, my DS' tics has improved great deal, from every second to not noticeable. In fact, my DS is telling us that he rarely has tics on a daily basis. What we have done is to give Fish Oil, multi-vitamin supplement to my son in addition to Chinese Herbal medicine drinks. We also give some probiotics to my son. Very fortunate to have found this site. People are very kind and always want to help and share information.
  46. 1 point
    lwei66

    7 year old tics

    Hi Hope36 How is your daughter now? I am new here because my 8 yr-old son developed Tics about 1 1/2 months ago. On the worst days, he was ticcing every second. As a dad, I worry so much with tons of anxiety myself. I gave my son Fish Oil and some Cod Liver Oil. We also give my son herbal medicine. So far, the situation has improved some what. Tics frequency improved from every second to 2 or 3 tics a minute. Sometimes we see 10 minute tic free intervals. Following Dr. DeMare's book on Natural treatment for TS and tics, I am now doing detective work to figure out the triggers for my son's tics. I do believe that my son's tics was epigenetic and brought onset by environmental/dietary triggers. It will take time to slowly identify the triggers and then hope that there is ways to address each of the triggers. Hope that your daughter's situation has improved.
  47. 1 point
    MomWithOCDSon

    Looking for success stories

    Welcome to the forum, but sorry your family has been forced to deal with PANDAS/PANs. As you do some reading here, you'll find that our stories, including treatment protocols, can vary widely. What does seem to be a thru-line to some extent, however, are commonalities among behaviors that we see in our kids when they're sick. There's some commonality in response to various medications and supplements, too, but not always. Time frames vary dramatically, also; I have my suspicions that this variance has to do with age at diagnosis, length of time the child was suffering due to PANDAS/PANs but went incorrectly diagnosed prior to diagnosis and treatment, and similar temporal differences. My DS was diagnosed with "regular OCD" at age 6 and went through a second "flare" or exacerbation at about 7.5 years. We inquired about PANDAS with ped, therapist, and ultimately a psych as well but were told it wasn't "real," and since our DS was classically asymptomatic for strep, we couldn't demonstrate a link, either. So we treated with therapy and finally an SSRI (Lexapro) until he turned 12. At 12, he completely flipped out. Went from being fully functional, funny, social, academically gifted, to a basket case. Couldn't read, sleep, play, eat. Psych kept switching up psych meds . . . different doses, different formulas. Nothing worked, and he just got worse. "Saving Sammy" and subsequent email conversations with its author, Beth Maloney, turned our attention back to PANDAS/PANS, particularly since Sammy was classically asymptomatic also. Ultimately, we were able to prove some atypical immune response through blood tests, and our ped was, gratefully, willing to give us an abx trial. Based on Sammy's protocol and our DS's similarity to Sammy in terms of age, behavior set, etc., we began with Augmentin XR, 1,000 mg., twice daily. When I found this forum and connected with a number of other families and great minds who were deep into the latest research, helping their own families and others, too, we began to explore other supplements that could assist DS with respect to immune balance and behavior; we also found a PANDAS-literate psych and reduced his SSRI dose and changed the med, as well, to Zoloft. We looked into IVIG but did not pursue it for a number of reasons, not the least of which was DS was so positively responsive to abx, we didn't entirely see the need for another, more expensive intervention. DS was on the XR for nearly 2 years; we slowly weaned him off the last 4 months or so. He also continued on Zoloft and certain supplements we found seemed to help him on an ongoing basis: NAC, B6, zinc, quercitin, omegas and magnesium. We also kept him on probiotics (sach b. and a mixed flora) during the abx and for quite some time afterward. ERP therapy was also his constant companion, twice each week for the first year or so following his PANDAS dx, and then edging off slowly as we saw him gaining more traction over the OCD, and as we became more and more literate as parents in terms of helping him beat back the OCD at home, rather than accommodating it. He's now 17 and I consider him a success story. He can now maintain his health -- mental and physical -- even when exposed to strep. He's been off abx for nearly 3 years, though he continues on a low-dose SSRI. I've found a compounding vitamin supplier and have been able to order a custom blend multivitamin for him that contains the things we know help, and leaves out the components we've seen can have negative impacts for him. He is back to his functional self -- funny, fun, bright, in AP and honors classes in his senior year in high school, has friends, etc. He still contends with some OCD; whether or not that's because he was dealing with that for 6 years before we were successful in getting PANDAS intervention I can't say for sure, but that's what I suspect. His brain was being wired those 6 years, so undoing that will likely continue to take some time. I wish you all the best, and from our experience I will offer two key perspectives: 1) time is an important component in the healing process; and 2) don't ever give up!
  48. 1 point
    dut

    vision zooming in/out

    Hi - my dd had something that may be similar... during an episode about a couple of years ago, when she went to bed she said that it looked as though I (lying on the bed with her) was miles away and she would look round the room and everything felt as though it was too far away. It would correct itself for a bit and then I and other things would be too far away again. It only happened at bedtime (which is a low point for her when things crop up that might not be evident at other times of the day). It went away after a couple of months. Both I and my sister get something which I believe to be similar but maybe not.... we get kinda proprioceptive changes of a sort. When we're tired sometimes, normally laying in bed at night, we feel as though one of our digits or sometimes a leg has grown to super enormous size. Not a bad but strange feeling, as though a thumb, say, has suddenly ballooned to 20 times it usual size. My dd's sight thingy felt as though it was along the same lines, a perception type issue rather than actual shifting in vision.... dunno... hope you work it out, good luck...
  49. 1 point
    My situation is probably unique. Yes, I have undiagnosed ts. Well, I saw a doctor once at age 21 and he prescribed clonidine. I took it for a while but it made me soooo tired that I just quit. Started ticcing around 7 and turned into full-blown ts around 14. It was never really addressed growing up other than my parents telling me to stop. I think they were just too embarrassed by the whole thing. They would threaten me by saying "if you don't stop by the end of this year, we are taking you to the doctor". I didn't want to be labeled as different or come to terms with the fact that there was something really wrong with me, so that scared me. I don't think that's all bad, however. I was very social and fine with my peers and am sort of glad I didn't have that "label". My late teen years and college were the worse, probably from stress. Sharing a dorm room was very difficult without having any privacy. I tried my hardest to control it and don't think I would have so much if it was out in the open and I think my symptoms would have been more rampid. I think it's an aweful and bizarre disorder to have in that you appear normal but have to contort you body in ways so you "feel" normal. It's been personally a difficult journey but in all actuality, I get along fine, aside from a small social anxiety issue. Nothing a glass of wine can't fix. My husband's mom has a chronic tic that comes and goes and his brother has chronic tic/OCD issues and my husband has some compulsive issues. None of them ever talk about it either. My husband's point of view is that everybody has something and no big deal. I don't think he knows how bad it can get and that's where I feel like I'm carrying all the stress, anxiety and burden. Even though he was with me since high school and has seen me for who I am, I've never talked about it with him so he has no idea what I've really gone through. I've gone on so long without talking about it that is seems like I have this huge secret. This forum is the only place I've ever talked about it and it feels so good knowing there is support out there. I keep waiting for the day that I have to have the "big talk" and I have no idea how he'll react. I think that is why, for me, the stress is doubled because I not only have to deal with my children's issues but the role I play in all of it. At this point, I don't even care about myself, I just want my kids to be healthy. I would take on symtoms a million times worse if it could spare them. I haven't ever mentioned the ticcing to my dd. I don't want to make her self-conscious about it and right now it's managable. It it worsens, then I'll deal with it then. Since my symptoms didn't worsen until I was 14, I'll be hanging on for a while. I struggle every day with the question of was it right to have children knowing I could pass this on to them. It's a gamble and 20 years from now I can better answer that.
  50. 0 points
    My son started w tics after an injury to the neck and head and then antibiotics. Then after each time he had antibiotics for small things, he had head tics. The last time it was nonstop movements after antibiotics. Every second or four seconds. It’s so sad. I don’t know what to do either.


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