Yikes, "hiccup girl" charged with murder

[thereishope]

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Edited October 27, 2010 by Vickie

[ajcire]

Vickie, I had the same thought as you. This was not a rage.. this was a pre-meditated act. I do believe that even if she has pandas (which really, is a big presumption at this point) that it doesn't mean it had anything to do with what she did. Sometimes people do bad things. Serioiusly, regardless of it's pandas or not.. obviously whenever someone does something like this they are not dealing with a full deck... doesn't make it any less awful.

[AmySLP]

Not sure if you saw that her hiccups were "cured" with accupuncture & per the report that was the end of it. Considering how much it takes to cure our kids, does it really seem possible then. Wouldn't the hiccups if they were a tic come back with an exacerbation at some point? I would hate to see PANDAS get caught up & be assoc with this story.

[thereishope]

Good point. I remember reading that and didn't even think how it's not that easy. Very good point. I suppose one may say she could have had an undiagnosed infection that the body eventually rid itself of without antibiotics, but for that to coincide with acupuncture and waking up one day and all is well (hiccups completely gone when she woke up one morning), doesn't make sense.

 

 

Not sure if you saw that her hiccups were "cured" with accupuncture & per the report that was the end of it. Considering how much it takes to cure our kids, does it really seem possible then. Wouldn't the hiccups if they were a tic come back with an exacerbation at some point? I would hate to see PANDAS get caught up & be assoc with this story.

Edited October 29, 2010 by Vickie

[Fixit]

Good point. I remember reading that and didn't even think how it's not that easy. Very good point. I suppose one may say she could have had an undiagnosed infection that the body eventually rid itself of without antibiotics, but for that to coincide with acupuncture and waking up one day and all is well (hiccups completely gone when she woke up one morning), doesn't make sense.

 

I wonder if we will eventually hear any correlation between the hiccup girl and sneezing girl again in the media. They made that association when Lauren was originally on Today Show. Let's hope they don't..and that they dont read this forum:)

 

 

Not sure if you saw that her hiccups were "cured" with accupuncture & per the report that was the end of it. Considering how much it takes to cure our kids, does it really seem possible then. Wouldn't the hiccups if they were a tic come back with an exacerbation at some point? I would hate to see PANDAS get caught up & be assoc with this story.

 

not trying to be a nay-sayer...

but it makes complete sense...

to bore everyone...ds would completely remit with abx week 4...just gone

my ds 7 soon to be 8 had mild eye blink for 2 weeks 2x's when he was 3...he had runny nose, allergy type things, i thought it was the benedryl...so i didn't give it for years to him....

now that i know more...i think he had a mild infection, i thought i was treating allergies...

my oldest ds the one i constantly write about presented like allergies/maybe..when he had strep...but ran around like nothing was wrong except the 1st 2x's he had it where he had a fever or vomiting

ds 3 just had a couple mild tics...needles to say after abx it got better..not perfect went back again with anohter infection and new abx and all is clear....told them he was sick....even though he didn't act it, hoping they would find something each time and they did...

my 3 kids dont act sick...and ds#2 has neve had another episode...never treated it with abx...he has had many an ear infection in his life....he would have been diagnosed with transient tic...i say transient infection..

i guess i'm saying not all need abx to clear infection...but i think this girl started to run away after her infection....probably pandas and parents thought it was an unrulely teeanager......who knows

[EAMom]

I agree with Fixit, that it makes sense that transient tics would come and go with transient infections.

 

In the link Chemar posted, it says that she still has periodic bouts of hiccups.

 

I wonder what her other TS symptoms are?

[ajcire]

Regardless of if it is or is not pandas... I still believe it could be irrelevant to her pre-meditated act of murder. I would not like to see her get off on this because of a pandas diagnosis. At least not just based on the info at hand.

[PhillyPA]

I rarely watch tv. A few months ago I was watching some crime tv drama. Maybe it was Criminal Minds, i don't remember. They were interviewing a serial killer and the killer said that every season as a child he got strep throat. I got a kick out of that. Some writer in television seemed to be familiar with PANDAS. In that drama, they associated strep with growing up to be a serial killer.

[MichaelTampa]

All this is a reminder, one I needed, to not read and assume too much from media reports. Someone reads somewhere that the person is cured. I have also read/heard somewhere they keep coming back. This is very typical of media reports, and perhaps just people in general to some extend (remembering the telephone game). But the media has the added reality where they are doing what they can with every story they write to find an angle, an approach, a way of presenting the story to make it interesting. That adds to misunderstandings during interviews and the like. I know, I have been the subject of interviews and media reports in the past, this is how it works, it does mean that while stories will have some truths here and there, but to accept everything literally as said is really to not understand (or forget) how fragile the truth gets in the process.

 

I'll certainly watch with interest as the situation progresses, I really believe it likely we'll have an important "teachable moment" (as the president says) for the medical community coming related to this case, maybe not and we'll see, but I am going to try to back off making too many conclusions or assumptions from every little thing I hear or read.

[Fixit]

Regardless of if it is or is not pandas... I still believe it could be irrelevant to her pre-meditated act of murder. I would not like to see her get off on this because of a pandas diagnosis. At least not just based on the info at hand.

 

I agree.

[pathfinder]

I don't think pandas should be factored in to this incident of hiccup girl based on my experience with my 17 yrs old son.

My son had been attracted to dark movies and musics for last 2 yrs which made us very very worried for something like this kind of incident.

I know there are regular/normal teens who like scary movies but I am not going fool anybody by saying it goes same for pandas teen.

I would like to point out differences between pandas kid's anger and wrong doing from that of other kids. Of course this is only my opinion from my own experience with my teen son and I don't claim to be anyone who knows anything about pandas.

Again this is only my opinion.

Pandas kids could become angry or become violent at something that would make anybody angry ( if anything happens under these circumstances one cannot blame pandas for outcome) but what makes pandas anger/behavior different from regular kids anger is that it comes at unexpected moments with wrong reasons.

Most of times my son's unreasonable anger/behavior is related to his OCD. ( example=someone touched his arm with dirty hands not because he wanted to rub someone but did not go as planned) His anger or unreasonable behavior( murder in hiccup girls case) always comes from something he cannot help like second instinct/OCD and it is never planned. Pandas kids might threaten or display extreme violence towards others but they are alway from something totally irrelevant. As I said he plots and plans wrong doings ( lied to me that he was going to nature photo taking when he was planning to catch snakes or spiders last week) but something as extreme as murder could only come from OCD related thinking not profit taking however small amount. Pandas probably affected this girl's personality and self confidence but murder act in it self cannot be blamed directly on pandas. ( any given things could effect personality and confidence)

My son is doing very well with pandas treatment and my heart goes out to those teens and adults who missed chance of pandas treatment and went on to wrong places in life. Pandas is an illness that manifests differently for every kids so anything is possible and therefore above is only my humble opinion. thank you for reading.

[EAMom]

We don't have to blame it directly on PANDAS, but PANDAS could certainly play a big role. It's just a piece of the puzzle!

 

undiagnosed PANDAS-> defiant behavior/rages/bad moods/dark thoughts/school failure -> gets kicked out of the house by parents (or runs away) -> hangs out with "unsavory people" (bad moods/thoughts continue)-> criminal behavior

[ajcire]

I think it would be dangerous to open that line of thinking with the scenerio and details we know on this story. Next we will have other criminals looking up their history of strep to use it as a defense.

[EmersonAilidh]

The only way that P.A.N.D.A.S. could help her case would be to plead insanity, which the vast majority of P.A.N.D.A.S. kids I've heard of wouldn't fit. Guilty by insanity doesn't mean "mentally ill", it means not having any concept of right & wrong at the time. I mean, I know a lot of us kids have problems with that regarding when it's appropriate to throw a tantrum or something, but I don't think most P.A.N.D.A.S. kids (MOST, not all) could extend that into actually killing someone. It's already been mentioned, but it was premeditated. It's hard to draw the line for what is someone's fault & what isn't when psychiatric illness is involved, & it's flatout impossible when all we know about the girl is from the internet. I'm with Vickie though, I hope that P.A.N.D.A.S. doesn't get thrown into this story. :/

 

Also, hiccups can definitely be a tic!!! I get them. Before the P.A.N.D.A.S. dx I was always so weirded out by my random hiccups. Just one, or a couple, & then no more.

 

P.S. ~ Not all P.A.N.D.A.S. kids without an on the ball parent are gonna end up this way! D:

[Chemar]

Hi everyone

 

just a request to not let this convo extrapolate too much re PANDAS and this murder case. It is distressing some members

 

Personally, I think if any should be a bit offended it is people with Tourette Syndrome, to have the lawyer suggest, as per the link I posted, that a TS dx is grounds for a murder. After all, the vast majority of people with TS have *only* tics, not OCD or any of the other neuro-psychiatric disorders that *some* people with TS also have. And the vast majority of those who also have some of those co-morbid are not angry or violent people at all !

 

However, whatever the background behind all this is, I am just going to request that this discussion continue with sensitivity toward other members who may find the suggestion that an equation can be drawn from untreated PANDAS to pre-meditated murder very very alarming, understandably.