kim

Caz, Your very welcome for the transcripts, but the true thanks should go to Hilary, and I will email her to let her know how helpful we are finding these notes. It is really sounding like the B12 shots are helping some doesn't it. I noticed one of the speakers said the injections were better than the oral, but we have to remember our kids are not autistic, and hopefully some of these issues are easier to correct for our kids. Some with tics may have a better response with oral then the Autistic children, so it's so helpful to all of us here, and probably to the Dr.s too to see what results you get when you try something like the oral M B12. I am really hoping my boys symptoms can be controled with diet, supplements etc. since they are pretty mild, but there is such a need in this area for exchange of information, if your kids are mild or not. Great to hear metals are looking better. Do you think there has been any improvement with the oral M12? Any studies in this area would be wonderful, I'm really glad to see someone is looking at the EFA's at least, however the more I read, the more I think we are kind of on our own since Pharma funds so many studies, and I doubt we will get anywhere quickly. Thank Heaven's for the Dr.s who have gone off the beaten path to try to help these children. Kim

Everything turned upside down last week. Husband went to ER with what we thought was appendix, turned out gall bladder. Removed next day, Thursday. Went to pick youngest (8yr) at Grandparents after surgery. He was tired and whiny, same thing on Fri. This child is full of energy, most of the time, inspite of lousy diet. By Sat. evening, I thought he had a fever, was going to go get new battery for thermometer, and decided to forget that and just take him to ER (I was thinking maybe streph, as one of the neighborhood kids he plays with got streph the day after my son had been with him, most of the day. His fever Sat. night I believe was around 101. They did a culture and gave us amoxicillian and sent us home after about a 4 hour wait, and 4 minutes with a Dr. Sun. I was giving Motrin to control fever, but he was acting worse, wouldn't move to hold thermometer, drink etc. I kept taking temp every 15 minutes as it seemed to be going up, not down. At one interval, when I removed themometer, I read 105.5. I didn't know I could run carrying an 80 lb. child, but I can. Took themometer with me, to check against one in ER. Fever fell to 103.9 by the time we got to hospital, their's said 103.5. I had the air conditioning on high on the way to hospital and I think getting him "up" released some heat. They checked him again, said they thought it was the flu. Fever spiked to 105.4 again Sun. nite. Took him to reg. Ped who ordered blood work on Mon. Low white count and low platelets. He said it was viral and to stop amox. and manage fever with alter, motrin and tylenol. I hated this. Wed. he wakes up with a rash, fevers were getting lower and farther apart, but still hit almost 102 early Wed. morning. Back to Ped. 2 Dr.s examined him, felt enlarged lymph nodes, and a palpable spleen. Felt it may be Roseola or mono, however, I think mono would have elevated his white count. We are supposed to retest blood work with mono test on Fri. If anyone has had an child with Roseola, could you tell me if this sounds fimiliar? Tonight the rash was itchy, but the fevers are farther apart, lower and easier to manage with lower doses, but he was really miserable/hard to reason with. Not much impact on tics, facial wiggles, but I'm afraid of what may be to come when he starts eating and getting a little stamina back. All the fever reducers, no vits for quite a while now, sugar in soda, ice cream, popsickles anything I could get him to drink. Guess we'll have to see. Also had to reschedule with new Dr. Our appt. was today. Kim

Andy, So glad to see another person here starting NDF plus. This product seems to have real promise at least for a percentage. A gentle, safe chelator would be a wonderful thing. If testing confirmed metals, I would certainly consider NDF Plus. For children with mild symptoms/metal accumulation, this could be exciting, also as you had mentioned, a maintenance product. Please keep us posted. Kim

Tonights notes Dr. Deth....At least one TS question, that I didn't ask! Dr Richard Deth – molecular neuropharmacologist (note that Dr Deth got pretty technical, I did the best I could to keep up, but don’t shoot the notetaker  ) Q: Dr.Deth, Thank you for being here tonight. I have an 8 year old who has tried many different meds; Adderal, AdderalXR, Ritalin, Concerta, Risperdal, Clonidine, Wellbutrin and Prozac. On all these meds he has developed tics some oral mosstly motor. Seen many different specialists only one says possible tourettes. The tics go away when meds are stopped. Although one has persisted slightly. That one completely stopped shortly after we started the biomed path mainly with the MB-12 shots. From your experience what neurologically is going on with tics? A: Tics are involuntary, with motor or vocalization. Dysfunction of basil ganglia, dopamine. Methylation seems to be important in those same circuits. Q: Have a family history of alzheimers. Does that mean my child is predispositioned for autism. A: The pathology of alzheimers involves elevated homocysteine and copper and aluminum. It’s my opinion there is a close connection between autism and alzheimers. I have heard of folks with alzheimers using similar protocols, like methyl B-12 or glutathional B-12 (precursor), to improve their Alzheimer symptoms. Q: When would arginine be recommended over creatine supplementation? I am reading the new Pangborn book and is says that a clue for creatine is low tone. A: The creatine can’t take the load off methylation. Giving the creatine can be a help, but it’s not a big help with methylation. On using arginine instead of creatine, I’m not a clinician, but make sure there is a lab test that indicates a need for the arginine before giving significant doses. Metametrix test can indicate this. Q: My son is high copper and low zinc. We give zinc and this is not helping the ratio at this point. How do you get the copper down? A: I really don’t know how to get copper down. Might need to think where it might be coming from, dietary or environmental. Q: How to get methylation pathway to work best? A: The most important mechanism for causing the problems we’re seeing are dopamine stimulated methylation. Total dependence on methionine synthase (B12 enzyme), methyl passed to dopamine phospholipids. Fixing the enzyme methionine synthase is number one on the list of things that can help autism. The enzyme is very metal-sensitive, thus effected by thimerosal. Inflammation – activation of microglia – when microglia are activated, which is common in autism, this causes inflammation. Inflammation is the trigger for the methionine synthase enzyme problems, that’s what brings about the MB12 requirement. These kids have a high demand for methyl B12, they have problems with dopamine stimulated methylation. Q: What is your opinion of GABA, 5-HTP, and/ or L-Theanine as calming agents for kids with autism? My older 10yo son was initially diagnosed with ADHD-he was re-diagnosed with HFA/ Aspergers. We've tried an alphabet soup of prescription meds with mixed results and I'd rather stick with supplements. A: You son likely has a methylation-related disorder. Have you explored methylation-related interventions such as folinic and mb-12? (answer was son is on folinic acid and oral MB-12) Dr Deth went on to say that most likely the oral MB-12 won’t produce the effects that the shots would. Q: So in your research,should MB-12, folinic acid, etc. "kick start" the methyl. cycle? What about TMG or DMG? A: TMG/DMG is controversial. TMG (Betaine) does seem to help the blood level of the methylation-related metabolites, but it might actually be a hindrance to the cognitive benefits that the MB-12 otherwise would bring. Methionine synthase and BHMT (betaine hydroxymethyltransferase) are in competition when you introduce the TMG, it actually makes the body produce more BHMT. In the brain, the BHMT doesn’t help the dopamine stimulated methylation. If you “starve” the BHMT and let the MB-12 work its magic with methylation, that’s what really seems to help the dopamine. Q: Of what benefit is phosphatidylcholine, DMAE or other cholinergic supplements for attention/focus issues with ADD kids? Do these supplements raise or lower or have anything to do with dopamine levels? We can't give this child methyl b12 as it causes aggression, which is a side effect when you over do the methyl b12. A: The phosphatidylcholine is recommended by some physicians, it’s not a bad thought. The end product of the dopamine stimulated methylation is to make phospholipids. The brain needs this. The omega 3 fatty acids in the brain are predominant, so it’s important to make sure you give phosphatidylcholine with omega 3’s. Not sure what effect the DMAE would have. Q: I run a local biomedical group, and it would be nice to find a way to describe the whole messed-up methylation cycle problem in a way that everyday people can understand. Do you know of a way that can describe the whole process without making people's brains not explode in the process? A: Diagrams and visual images are helpful. Q: You mentioned glutathione-l-B12 as a precursor to B12. Do you know if this has been used in kids with ASD and can it be beneficial? If so, what forms does it come in? A: As far as I know it’s not available in the U.S. I was in England when they were using it for alzheimers. He thought it was better then methyl B-12 because it gives rise to the adenisol cobalamin. He had to have it specially made – it’s not very stable. MB-12 is more stable, so that’s the practical way to go. Q: Thank you, each time I hear/read this stuff it make a little more sense - your talk is helping! 1) Is trouble crossing midline (OT term) an indication of a problem with synchronization in the brain the way that you talked about it in the Boston DAN? If yes, can you talk more about what that means - which cycles are likely not working well? 2) Have you seen the neuroscience tests? What do you think? They measure urine for epinephrine-urine, norepinephrine dopamine etc via urine. What are the limitations of this method of testing those levels? My son's epinephrine is low, norepinephrine-low, dopamine normal, seratonin-low, GABA-high, PEA - normal, Histamine-high. What does that indicate to you as a scientist? (he is already on MB12 + folinic + TTFD + Glutathione cream to good effect)) 3) Can you please talk about glutamate and glutamine… A: 1) Hemispheric cross over between left and right. That does probably have to do with the same synchronization problem that is related to dopamine. There are also issues with mylin, and connections (hard-wiring). 2) Dopamine is made into norepinephrine is made into epinephrine, so low norepinephrine might indicate problems in the enzymes that do that conversion. It would be unlikely that you would undertake separate treatments to treat each of those neurotransmitters, that’s overwhelming. There should be another wave of benefits coming from drugs that are targeted for inflammation – Goldblatt and Boris have been looking into this. They might supplement the methylation. 3) These are needed for making glutathione. Neuronal cells like glutamine in order to make glutathione. Having too much glutamate can cause hyperactivity, so generally speaking supplementation with glutamate or glutamine has a certain risk to it (hyperactivity). Q: Can chelation cause neuro inflammation? Is there any hope that the methylation process can be repaired after chelation? A: I’ve not heard that chelation could cause inflammation. It can cause hyperactivity. Metals have been shown to activate the mircroglial cells that are responsible for inflammation. So the chelation might improve inflammation. The methylation process can be repaired and needs to be repaired. Chelation and restoration of methionine synthase are the therapies we’re pointing towards. Methylation regulates gene expression. Methylation of DNA causes silencing of genes – nature’s own way of turning genes off. Q: Mutations (??? Not sure of the question, the conference locked up momentarily) A: Mutations are polymorphisms, they probably wouldn’t create autism without other things like heavy metals. If metal status and redox stress are brought back to normal, the mutations might not be so problematic as to need supplementation. Might try reduced dosage or removal, by working with doctor of course. Also, we’re looking for alternate delivery mechanisms besides shots for MB-12. Working on nasal spray that would have sustained effect. Nasal has better access to the brain. Q My son was a responder to Mb12 under the care of Dr. Neubrander. And has done very well .... We are doing the dmps test (urine collection 6 hours) And was wondering till now Chelation is not an option yet i wanted to know what are the dangers chelation poses on the brain? My son is also a leaky gut child. and looks like Dr. Neubrander calls a preagnant Boy. so my second question is if we chelate successfully will his brain be able to function normally in his later years (ex five years or so after therapy). A: Can do regular challenges to see if there is continued need for chelation. There aren’t long-term effects that I am aware of for metals on the brain, but the clinical tests are showing the heavy metals are coming out. Be cautious; stop the chelation when the indication that it is necessary is gone. Q: What test checks Glutathione levels? What are the reasons that Methyl B12 is good for autism, adhd, tics, etc. I've heard that dmps iv's are very dangerous. Is oral dmps supposed to be a safer option of chelation? There are several different protocols like DAN or Andy Cutler's. How do you decide which one would be best for tourettes? A: You can get the glutathione test in hospital labs. Measure cysteine and glutathione. Great Smokies is working on GSH to GSSG ratio test; they have a GSH test. Benefits of MB-12: fixes dopamine stimulated methylation. IV is a little brave. As far as Tourette’s Syndrome, I really don’t know which protocol would work for that. Q: Would DMG be as bad as TMG in affecting the two enzymes you referred to earlier? My daughter tolerates DMG much better than TMG. Thank you. A: DMG should be tolerated better – it doesn’t affect the enzymes and interfere with the dopamine mechanism. It’s TMG that could interfere. Q: You mentioned to avoid DMG if doing Methyl B-12 treatment, are there any other supplements that should be avoided when giving mb-12 or chelation treatment? A: Actually I was talking about TMG as potentially being a problem with MB-12. If the MB-12 doesn’t seem to be doing anything, try without TMG. DMG however is a good supplement, it contributes to the folate pathway and doesn’t interfere with MB-12. As far as other supplements, introduce them one by one, and give adequate time before starting another supplement. Nothing comes to mind as another supplement that would interfere. Q: Can you comment on the de-myelination in some autistic kids brains? Can this be reversed? A: Martha Herbert and another study have shown a complex pattern – lower amounts of white matter early on, later on in teens excessive white matter. De-myelination is common when something inhibits methionine synthase. B-12 definiciency inhibits methionine synthase. Yes, it should be able to be reversed, but we need studies over time. Q: Two questions. (1) My son started grinding his teeth after he started methyl B12 shots. Is it possible that this is the result of the mouth senses "waking up" due to better methylation? The teeth grinding stopped when I gave B5 (pantothenic acid), and I worried that perhaps I was somehow blocking the effects of B12 by using B5 (thus explaining the cessation of teeth grinding). (2) I hope this is not off-topic, but have you heard of Dr. McCandless' informal study on LDN (low dose naltrexone)? What are your thoughts about using LDN to reduce inflammation and bring the immune system into balance? A: 1) There are reports that kids have had the return of different sensations, vision, hearing, etc. I can’t relate this to something specific that the MB-12 should do. You could probably look at the other behavioral effects and judge by that – if you’re seeing good things, keep doing both. 2) I don’t have any lab experience to add to that. I think it’s one of those things that people are anxious to hear about. Q: Would lipoic acid have any effect on the pathways you've mentioned so far? We're considering its use pulsing with chelation. Thanks again! A: Lipoic acid has a reputation for being involved in chelation. I don’t have any clinical experience to share. You might consider a variety of chelation agents. One of the problems with chelating agents is their chemical-specificity is different from one to the other. You might explore to see which chelating agent works for your son or daughter. Q: Dr Deth-can you discuss the role of Omega 3s in methylation? Is there a good way that you know to determine how much a child needs? A: Omega 3s are close partners to the phospholipids methylation. The brain has an extraordinary percentage of omegas. DHA for example makes up 25% of brain weight. Nature requires the brain have the fatty acids to that extent. They play into methylation because the fatty acids have kinks/bends and take up more space, are bulkier. The brain has a particular need for a certain spacing of the membrane phospholipids. The baseline is created by the diet and the omega 3s. If you have the wrong membrane structure to start with, the methylation wouldn’t work as well as it’s supposed to. Supplementing with omega 3’s in our lab made a huge difference in the dopamine. During pregnancy the fetus takes the omegas from the mom, the fetus’ brain needs these, the mother gets depleted of DHA, this contributes to post-partum depression. Q: My son did not improve with DMG -only in stools- and on TMG little. These cases imply the need of only MethylB12 and Folinic/Folic acid to support methionine synthesis if adenosine problems-ADA mutations- and DPPIV/CD26 can be also collaborating?? GFCF diet can affect methionine synthesis then? A: (sorry, didn’t get this answer) Q: Can pathogenic yeast and bacteria contribute a lot to methylation problems? Also does a child need to be absorbing zinc well for methylation supplements such as MB-12 to work? A: There is a need for zinc in the methionine synthase. Zinc is needed for methylation, and for MB-12 to work right. MB-12 shots should be able to bypass gut inflammation issues. Q: I had my 3.5 yr old son's reduced glutathione (and plasma sulfate & plasma cysteine) levels checked through Great Smokies after 3 mos on TMG, methyl B12 (and folinic acid orally). All three levels were extremely low. This was puzzling, since I thought in the studies by you and/or Dr. James, the GSH level normalized after several months on TMG, B12 shots & folinic acid. Could this be because we were also chelating at the same time, thereby depressing these levels? A: Dr James did show those levels do normalize for the majority of people. In your son’s case, they didn’t. I wouldn’t think chelation would depress the levels. Metals can bind to cysteine, then get excreted, but that wouldn’t account for the low levels. Inflammation. Production of cysteine, glutathione, all from trans-sulfuration pathway, activated by inflammation. The fact that you don’t have enough of those levels – what is the homocysteine level – is that is also low, it might be adenosine holding things back. (homocysteine was low, according to person who asked question). Think about measuring adenosine. Q: There has been recent discussion of whether or not any known "safe" chelator can actually pull mercury from the brain. What is you opinion of this? Does the mercury re-distribute in the body? A: There is no agent that we know right now that has the ability to pull from the brain. Dr Boyd Haley is trying to design a new, better chelating agent. Once mercury is pulled with DMPS, there is a chance that it could un-bind if there is another sulphur group, but the general thought is that DMPS will take the mercury out to the sweat, urine, stool. File : /20050713 Dr Richard Deth.doc Uploaded by : hilarydowning <hilarydowning@yahoo.com> Description : Dr Richard Deth BioChat You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/asd_solution...hard%20Deth.doc

BioChat notes From Dr. Cave session Here are the notes to pass. Hilary is such a gem for taking these: > Stephanie Cave > Hats off to Hilary and may I say ( tip!) These notes are very informative to the reader, especially if you are a visual learner. Thank you for your dedication and contribution. K- > Q: Thank you for your time What do you think is a clever vaccination > schedule? I feel that not only thimerosal but also Al compounds, > formaldehyde, formaline neomycin and the genetic materials of foreign > species (rabbit dog) are all potentially harmful Do you think that > only when harder controls of vaccines quality with the single doses > of MMR and perhapssingle dose of DPT (All with SAFER preservatives) > we will have a real improvement in the safety of vaccines, beyond > efectiveness? > > A: The vaccination schedule is in chapter 15 of the book. We start > later, don't do varicella/pox until a year. We separate M, M and R. > At 4 to 5 years, we test before giving Hep B, varicella (depending on > what the rules of state are), and MMR. 95% of time they are already > immune to MMR. > > Q: Son received tetraimmune vaccine. Could that be a contributing > factor to his autism? What do you know about it? DPT and Hib > > A: Any amount of thimerosal can be a problem if the child is > genetically not able to handle heavy metals. Tetraimmune > > Q: I stopped vaccinating my son over a year ago after he reacted > badly to his last few vaccinations. Is it safe to just keep him > vaccine free while we are on the road to recovery. A little history > is that my son went from pretty nt with certain delays to severly > autistic within 6hours after mmr and dpt booster. and also my son > > A: For a child on the spectrum, I don't recommend any further > vaccines. > > Q: If one chooses not to continue vaccination after an ADHD dx, what > are the chances that the child will become infected with whatever > disease it is the vax is to protect them from? > > A: You always run a risk, but many of these diseases are very rare now > > Q: Very hyper since flu shot last year > > A: Work with a DAN! doctor. Flu shot has thimerosal. I don't > recommend flu shot to anyone. > > Q: Would you recommend healing gut or chelation first. Also, In a > state without philosophical reason to bypass vaccination, how do you > get around it? NJ > > A: work to heal gut, for about a month, then start chelation. Get an > exemption – medical, or religious. Or consider homeschooling. > > Q: Tetraimmune followup. Testing on son shows he is a good excretor. > After a year of TD-DMPS and DMSA, still not excreting a lot, even > with IV EDTA. Did tetraimmune do damage moreso then the mercury? Do I > need to treat a virus? > > A: There's no way to tell what damage was done by a vaccine. Even > with testing, the child may not be able to excrete. Also, may not be > mercury, but another heavy metal. Do consider the viral approach, but > we're not having much treating with antivirals. > > Q: What is your opinion of Td-dmps as a chelator? Is there any > chelator that you prefer? > > > A: It's not approved for children. We're not seeing mercury in the > urine or stool. It might be stuck in skin? Children are improving, > but we don't know how. We're seeing great results with dmsa, so I > stick with that. > > Q: Which are the best tests to do that will show if the child has > heavy metal toxicity? Hair? Urine? Feces? Blood? Do you know a lab > that you think has the best test/results? > > A: We look at hair. We try to get first haircut hair. If child is not > excreting mercury in 1st haircut hair, they're probably not an > excretor. We do a challenge to see what can be pulled. We used to > check stool, not so much any more. Blood only shows mercury there for > a week. Doctors Data is the best lab I've seen. > > Q: What are your indications for using TD-DMSA as opposed to the > oral form? Also, is it common in your experience that a child may > test negative for mercury in a challenge test, but still be mercury > toxic? > > A: If a child has yeast issues, we'd switch to TD (transdermal). A > child we had today wouldn't put anything sulfury in his mouth, so we > used TD with him. Mercury is pretty tightly bound, so it's hard to > pull from storage sight. > > Q: Have you used LDN (low dose naltrexone) with children on the > spectrum? If so, should this be tried before chelation or during > chelation? > > Q: We just heard that our son has high level of titanium. Can't > get to the DAN dr. for a month. What causes titanium levels? Should > we do anything. Already 4 weeks into first 8 weeks of DMSA after > urine test showed high mercury. > > A: mom may have had braces, or vitamins with titanium (dioxide) > > Q: Do you not still use ALA with the DMSA? If not, why? > > A: No. A recent article, however, shows the mixture is not > necessarily pulling metal from the brain, but it does help oxidative > stress. ALA adds more sulphur. Two sulphur compounds can kick up a > lot of yeast, beware. > > Q: How would you treat high amounts of measles, mumps or reubella in > the gut. I have started using vaccinosis nosodes and my son reacts > really badly on them...an emotional mess. Is there anything else that > is more gentle and effective? > > A: I don't necessarily treat this. A colonscopy might be able to tell > if this is a problem. I've used some homeopathic nosodes, they seem > to work ok. > > Q: How long after beginning chelation do you recommend retesting to > determine how much metals you are pulling....specifically hair > elements test. We currently are using oral DMSA. He met all 3 > counting rules according to Andy Cutler (DDI) > > A: I do a DMSA challenge first, 20 mg/kg, then ½ that dose 3 times a > day 3 days on 11 days off for 4 cycles, then another challenge. > (Collect urine) > > Q: Dr. Cave, we did a pre-chelation OAT for our son and found high > arabinose (the yeast is back). Given that the TD-DMSA isn't absorbed > through the gut, would you find anything wrong with treating the > yeast with diflucan (1.5 ml daily) at the same time as starting TD- > DMSA? Our son is 6, 48 lbs; would those 2 at the same time be too > hard on him? Also, the OAT said our son tested high for a bacterial > called D-Lactate? Do you know what that is and what might cause it to > be elevated? > > A: I prefer to treat separately so I can see what the reaction to > diflucan is (in other words stop the DMSA). > > Q: Our appt w/our DAN! physician isn't until October and I have > started my 4 yr old on NuThera, Cod Liver Oil, Calcium Powder and Pro > Bio Gold. We haven't had any testing done on him. I have other > nutritional supplements that I want to start him on, such as > selenium, magnesium, GLA, Vit C. Do I need to wait to add more > supplements (he seems to be responding well to the supps - he's > ADHD)? How do you decide what supps to start a child on? I wouldn't > be surprised if he has yeast issues as he had 30 ABx by the time he > was 2 (oral, ear, eye abx). Is this something my "reg" ped can help > me with? > > A: You have a good start. We start similarly, then we test minerals > to see if selenium or magnesium are needed. Also fatty acid and amino > acid test. Tune to the tests. > > Q: I've asked this of other Dr.'s on this forum, but what has been > your experience with recovery rates for older kids? I started > chelating with oral DMSA my now 8yo mild-moderately autistic son > about 15 months ago. He is making slow progress. > > A: No cutoff for age, it's faster with younger. > > Q: what is the protocol for trans dmsa and how does it compare with > dmsa > A: DMSA TD – we're using ½ the oral dose. But we challenge with oral. > > Q: What would you do for 3 yr. child autism with seizers. He is on > meds and cannot take a probiotics or will get a destended stomach > which will go to a fever siezure. We are at a loss of what to do. > He is on miralax for sever constipation also. > > A: Children with seizures are a lot more difficult to take care of. > We start nutrients from ground up. We use DMSA. The mercury may kick > up the seizures, so have to work with neurologist. One child had more > seizures initially on the DMSA, but 8 weeks later was seizure-free. > > Q: thanks dr.cave, is td-dmsa equally effective as oral-dmsa? > > A: we're just starting out, yet to be determined. > > Q: Hi Dr.Cave. We have just started our 2 yr, 9 mos old son on > naltrexone. He is non-verbal but very noisy and jargons tons. We > are looking for language obviously. Can you tell me anything about > this treatment? > > > A: We're just beginning to try LDN. It's not a toxic dose. Might be > helping as an antagonist to the morphine. If you want language look > at MB-12. That has been one of the keys for language. > > Q: After chelating for years with oral DMSA, DMPS, and TD DMPS, the > metal levels are down. What would the next step be? Also, do you > use Primal Defense and how much. Thanks SO MUCH! > > A: Next step is wait a few months. Challenge again with oral DMSA. > Sometimes you can pull more from stores if you wait a while. Also use > NAC to help with detox. Primal Defense – about ½ tsp twice a day. > By the way, EDTA as a chelator…we use for lead, cadmium, aluminum – > it's not good for mercury. > > Q: Is there a specific test and lab you use to test for the minerals > and fatty acids? Thanks! > > A: Metamatrix does these tests, results are good, consistent > > Q: Krill OIl is very popular right now. If you had a child on > Cod Liver Oil and you wanted to add Krill Oil would that be too much? > Should you stop the Cod Liver Oil? > > > A: I'd continue to use CLO for vit A and D. I'm not familiar with > Krill. > > Q: Are you familiar with the product called "Beyond Clean" it's > an EDTA bath, we were advised to mix it with epsom salt. Is it okay > to use while prepping gut for chelation? > > > A: I do use Beyond Clean, it's an EDTA bath, will help with lead. Ok > to use with Epson salt > > Q: Are you using MSM with your kids ? We are chelating with DMPS-td > and ALA td > > > A: We use mag sulfate cream, and Epsom salt > > Q: I'm considering chelation my 3 yr old son who has pddnos. I'm > having much trouble getting him to take supplements as he is so > orally sensitive, he gags at any form of oral meds or strong tasting > liquid supplements. What would be your recommendation to help with > supplementation (what kinds of supplements are necessary for safe > chelation) and what would be a safe place to start for chelating my > son? > Also, I had his hair and urine heavy metals testing done and they > didn't show any mercury, however, they did show antimony, bismuth, > arsenic, and gallium. Since mercury didn't show up on the test, what > are the chances he is or is not mercury toxic? > > A: Check with compounding pharmacist to make up vitamins in an oral > spray; or creams. A multi, zinc, magnesium, calcium, all necessary. > If no merc in hair, they might be a retainer (non-excretor) – go > ahead and do the challenge, see if metals come out. > > Q: We do have our son on MB12 shots for about 7 mos. now. How long > after starting the shots until we see their maximum effect? > > A: We don't know when we'll see a maximum effect. With some kids we > don't know when we'll see an effect at all. Give them until you stop > seeing the child improve. If child has MTFHR issue, need to keep > doing shots indefinitely. > Q: I came on late today, sorry if this was already addressed. My > sons titer was negative to mumps, ofcourse the regular ped wants to > redo the whole mmr. I thought single mumps shot only. Do you think > it is necessary as he is a boy? > > A: If child is negative to mumps only, you would only give mumps, not > full MMR. But if child is ASD, I wouldn't give any further vaxes of > any kind. > > Q: > What is the best way to do EDTA? And can you use with TD- > DMSA ? > > A: Best EDTA – calcium EDTA IV. You probably shouldn't use them > together, separate in time, maybe by a week. > > Q: What are the contraindications for methyl b-12? What side effects > do you see? > > A: I don't know about contraindications. As far as side effects, some > kids get hyper for 7-9 days. We just cut back on frequency of dosing > if still hyper. > > Q: We're planning to start our son on the MB-12 shots soon. However, > we are presently giving him VRP's MB-12 sublingual drops and he has > become hyper and at times aggressive. Would we expect to see the > same side-effects from the shots? > > A: Try the shots, for a month. There might be something in the drops > he cannot tolerate. > > Q: Have you ever used DeTOXamin EDTA suppositories? Our ND > recommended this for the lead. > > A: Not crazy about using supps for longterm use, anal sphinter muscle > is delicate. > > Q: Have you seen any negative side effects from TD-DMSA since > you have been chelating ASD children? if so, have you had to stop > chelating those kids? > > A: Only using it for 2 months, but haven't heard anything negative. > > Q: My son has a lazy eye. Have you seen this in any other > kids? Could it be related to autism and/or mercury poisoning? We > know another ASD child (relative) with the same lazy eye. > > A: Be careful, take to an opthamologist. Because mercury is a > neurotoxin it could be related. Patch the good eye. > > Q: What do you do for a child that cannot take a probiotic who > has terrible constipation? 14 days inbetween bowesl > > A: Use mag citrate. Find out if child has bowel blockage. Might need > more strenuous regime to bring stool out. Nystatin will treat yeast. > > Q: Are other eye problems such as myopia and astigmatism related to > mercury poisoning ? > > A: Anything having to do with nerves could be related. > > Q: What "natural chelators" do you recommend, ie FIR sauna, > Metal Free, NDF+, Vit C, Clay baths, Foot bath, etc. > > A: I love FIR, have one of my own. Like metal free. NDF hasn't done a > lot for us. Vit C is good. Clay baths have volcanic ash, which have > mercury. Foot bath – depends what's in it. > > Q: Do you have an opinion on Hyperbaric Oxygen therapy? Thanks > again! > > A: Has been very good. Dr in New Orleans has good outcomes with > autistic children. This is in terms of healing. > > Q: What have you found best for chronic constipation? We had horrible > behavior with Miralax (on over a year) and the mag citrate, > benefiber, probiotics and enzymes have not consistently provided > relief (he is 4 yo.) > > A: Do an IgG. Use mag citrate, probiotics, enzymes. Also look at > organisms in stool to balance flora. Treat parasites, yeast, bacteria. > > Q: How would you chelate a typical child that got all the shots > but is not autistic? I dont want cancer down the road for him. I > know mercury is linked to cancer also. > > A: Find out if the child retains metals – first haircut hair test; or > challenge with DMSA orally. Urine catch before and after the > challenge. If the child is not a retainer, don't fix what isn't > broken. > Q: Dr. Cave what is your best intervention to stimulate language? > > A: MB-12; folic acid; amino acids > > Q: We've tried cod liver oil, methyl B12, amino acids, B complex > vitamins, DMG and our daughter still has severe articulation problems > after 2 years of speech therapy. Any recommendations for something > we can try? > > A: Hard to say, don't know the individual > > Q: After 8 months of GFCF my son still tests IgG high on Casein > (Alletess and immunosciences). What could be the cause? Will it ever > go down? > > > A: Check labels, find out if there is a diet infraction > > Q: Our son developed a rash after starting the DMSA. Is this common? > > A: metal rash – if bad enough, stop DMSA for a few weeks. > > Q: Do you know of anyone using the product 'Oral Chelation' by > Extreme Health. It was developed by Dr. Maile Pouls I believe. Do > you know of any people's experience with this product? > > A: Most of oral work well. EDTA not for mercury > > Q: what do you recommend for hypotonia and dyspraxia? > > A: Get the metals out, that's typical of mercury toxicity > > Q: We've been using magnesium malate for aluminum. How long > would you expect it to take to pull the aluminum out using this? > > A: Too long. Use something else. There is a question as to whether > this drags alum in as well as out. > > Q: In your experience, what is the best test for determining levels > of heavy metal toxicity? > > A: Best - chelation challenge – oral DMSA, DMPS or IV EDTA. > > Q: What is the best intervention to decrease self stimulatory > behavior? > > A: yeast overgrowth or metals cause stim. Treat the metals and yeast. > > Q: What supplements would help with attention and focus? > > A: For attention and focus, I look at amino acids in plasma, and see > what the child needs. GABA helps. Pediacalm has GABA, that helps with > attention and focus. Tyrosine, dopamine, 5-hydroxy trytophin > > Q: Dr Cave, This is regarding the previous question by Karen on > how best to stimulate language. You mentioned amino acids. Are there > any particular ones and which tests do we need to do to find out? > Thank You > > A: Metamatrix – custom made amino acid preparation. But you need to > add minerals that are down, coenzyme D complex by Thorne. These 3 > help. > > Q: Do you feel that 5HTP and Tyrosine are safe to use to > increase serotonin levels? > > A: yes, safe > > Q: What causes toe walking? How can you get rid of it? > > A: Toxins, heavy metals, lack of chemistry, lack of magnesium, > > Q: With a mild trunk rash from the FIR sauna would you also advise a > time without the sauna? (metals being stirred?) or it's so slow with > FIR sauna, just continue? > > A: Sauna will bring out toxins through urine, sweat. Wait a week then > continue. > > Q: how long should we wait when liver becomes weak from dmsa > before continuing chelation? Also, what chelator should used to > remove mercury from brain once dmsa removes body mercury? > > A: Liver shouldn't be weak from using DMSA. Use glutathione and > sulfate along with chelation. You cannot remove mercury straight from > the brain. Studies last fall (DMSA, DMPS, ALA) showed the mercury > wasn't coming straight from the brain. We're hoping if we take from > the body, eventually it will come from the brain.

Herb Allure - We Become Silent: The Codex-CAFTA Documentary The CODEX-CAFTA Documentary. This astounding video exposes the grave dangers posed by European and global regulation of medical freedom. ... herballure.com/Special/WeBecomeSilent/ - 35k - Cached - Similar pages Herb Allure - We Become Silent: The CODEX-CFTA Documentary We Become Silent The CODEX-CAFTA Documentary produced by Kevin Miller. If the video does not start to play automatically:. Click on the "Play" button, or ... herballure.com/Special/WeBecomeSilent/QuickTime.html - 34k - Jul 7, 2005 - Cached - Similar pages [ More results from herballure.com ] Vive le Canada - Our Country, Our Voice If you try to watch the anti Codex anti CAFTA documentary "We Become Silent" on Kevin ... If we don't kill CAFTA/ FTAA we won't stop Codex from coming here. ... www.vivelecanada.ca/forum/viewtopic. php?showtopic=12077&fromblock=yes&lastpost=true - 54k - Cached - Similar pages Emergency Petition to Save the Courts: & How This Ties in With ... ... I will explain how this situation ties in with the CODEX/ CAFTA/FTAA issue, ... Hill to educate members of congress on the Codex/ CAFTA/ FTAA issues. ... www.iahf.com/20050522.html - 9k - Cached - Similar pages IAHF Special Anti Codex AUDIO ANNOUNCEMENT I just recorded a special anti Codex, anti CAFTA message in an audio file. ... Will help you grasp threat arrayed against us via Codex/CAFTA/FTAA, ... www.iahf.com/20050623.html - 4k - Cached - Similar pages Is The World Being Set Up To Accept Draconian Codex Standards? By ... Hot on the heels of CAFTA is FTAA which has major thrust behind it by the ... lose our supplement rights and health freedoms if we can't stop Codex, CAFTA, ... educate-yourself.org/cn/codexsetup17jun05.shtml - 41k - Cached - Similar pages What You Can do About Codex, A Threat to Your Health Freedom 5/14/05 CODEX is part of the World Trade Organization -- what Lori Wallach, ... GATT, CAFTA and the FTAA, bind us to make Codex standards law domestically, ... www.mercola.com/2005/may/14/codex.htm - 35k - Cached - Similar pages American Holistic Health Association (AHHA) - Codex Alimentarius ... Codex Recent Developments. NEWS ITEMS:. CAFTA VOTE DUE JUNE 30 or July 11 ... The Codex Alimentarius Commission (CAC) session is July 4-9, ... ahha.org/codexrecent.htm - 15k - Cached - Similar pages American Holistic Health Association (AHHA) - NHF Press Release ... We Must Not Allow CAFTA and Codex to Override DSHEA. July 2, 2005 Press Release National Health Federation (a not-for-profit health organization) ... ahha.org/NHFPressRelease705.htm - 5k - Cached - Similar pages [ More results from ahha.org ] Cancer Alternatives Support Forum # 2 - Cancer & Leukemia , Page 57 Important Info regarding CODEX/CAFTA by beloved1 5 days. Re: Important Info regarding CODEX/CAFTA (part 1) by beloved1 5 days; Re: Important Info regarding ... www.curezone.com/forums/f.asp?f=254&t=77569.67 - 44k - Cached - Similar pages NATIONAL HEALTH FEDERATION - CAFTA Press Release WE MUST NOT ALLOW CAFTA AND CODEX TO OVERRIDE DSHEA. The Central American Free Trade Agreement (CAFTA) Treaty will require the US, a member of the World ... www.thenhf.com/newsflash_49.htm - 13k - Cached - Similar pages Americans for Legal Immigration Forums-viewtopic-CAFTA AND CODEX ... Americans for Legal Immigration - Help Fight Illegal Immigration. www.alipac.us/ftopict-6046.html - 36k - Cached - Similar pages BrainTalk Communities - CAFTA VOTE June 2005 CODEX ALIMENTARIUS ... Online patient support groups for healthcare and neurology. brain.hastypastry.net/forums/showthread.php?t=88943 - 68k - Cached - Similar pages BrainTalk Communities - CAFTA VOTE June 2005 CODEX ALIMENTARIUS ... Online patient support groups for healthcare and neurology. brain.hastypastry.net/forums/ archive/index.php/t-88943.html - 13k - Cached - Similar pages 6/29/05 Urgent Codex/CAFTAA Update If we don't kill CAFTA/ FTAA we won't stop Codex from coming here. Washington Post indicates CAFTA vote will be very tight, could come down to just ONE VOTE ... www.healthfreedomrights.com/wst_page8.html - 24k - Cached - Similar pages WANT YOUR FREEDOM? STOP CAFTA NOW! Chamber of Commerce Distorts NAFTA Record, Hides CAFTA Codex which you've been hand delivered a copy of along with a letter from John Hammell of ... www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=73009 - 15k - Cached - Similar pages TheOmnivore.com Newsletter WE MUST KILL CAFTA TO SAVE OUR COUNTRY AND TO BLOCK HARMONIZATION TO CODEX. The SPS language in CAFTA forces harmonization to Codex standards. ... www.theomnivore.com/June_23_2005_Newsletter.html - 38k -

Tuesday July 12, 9:00pm EST Stephanie Cave, MD Immunizations and Autism. The substantial benefits of immunization have been threatened by a public policy that has mistakenly exempted vaccines from safety testing that applies to all other FDA approved pharmaceuticals. Safe, private immunization policy for your children may be guided by an understanding of the difference between public and private health priorities and strategies. Dr. Cave is on the clinical faculty of LSU Medical School, has an integrative medicine practice in Baton Rouge, Louisiana and is board certified in Family Practice. Presently she is treating over 2000 children on the autism spectrum. Dr. Cave lectures on autism, heavy metal toxicity, and vaccines, and is the author of What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Children’s Vaccinations. ******************************************** Wednesday July 13, 9:30pm EST Richard Deth, PhD Dr. Richard Deth is a molecular neuropharmacologist and Professor of Pharmacology at Northeastern University in Boston. His research interests are directed toward elucidating the molecular events that cause neuropsychiatric disorders in which impaired attention is a prominent feature. His laboratory discovered a new signaling pathway involving the D4 subtype of dopamine receptor that is linked to the risk of ADHD, autism, schizophrenia and Alzheimer's disease. ******************************************** http://www.drneubrander.com/page6.html Click on Biomedical Treatments and Support Chatroom

Susanmom, I'm so glad you found this site. I was amazed too, and have learned a lot. Read everything you can here, and you will start to become fimiliar with what is discussed and can start to figure out the best course of action. Ask questions about anything, everyone is here to share info. and help each other. That head nod seems to be a stubborn tic! Many of our children seem to have a difficult time with it. I find the stress level goes up for my boys when they are home together. I really wondered if it was something in our house. I used to tell them they were allergic alright, to each other. They love each other and are really pretty close, but they can get on each others nerves which adds to the tickiness at times. Andy, I'm wondering if you can tell me how long you have to be off vit/supp before having the FIA 5000. I have read from 3 days to two weeks for various tests. Also, did you use Immuno for the food sensitivity testing? Kim

GOT EM! Notes from Dr. Adams Biochat www.eas.asu.edu/~autism Q: What is your opinion of NDF+, Metal-free, etc? What about contamenents? What do you think about FIR sauna? A: We don't know with some of these products if they are efficacious, whereas DMPS, TTFD, DMSA have a lot of studies. There was a study done on chlorella, and that study found chlorella is not effective in removing mercury. NDF is a form of chlorella. Jim contacted MetalFree to ask what's in it, and they would not discuss it, so he's leery. Jim has not seen studies on FIR saunas, so he'd want to see research and make sure metals are coming out. Q: Hi Dr. We have just begun sulfasalazine from Dr. K, for LMH in colon. With the "heal the gut first" approach, how long would you recommend before beginning chelation. My son regressed drastically after double dose of flu shots, we believe he has high mercury (and probably others) and are very anxious. Thanks. A: Part of the gut problems are related to mercury toxicity, he believes. First avoid junk food, lower sugar intake, use organics where possible, avoid foods you're allergic to, try gf/cf or SCD (although be careful because SCD can make kids worse sometimes). A month ago there was a study on EFAs – after using EFAs for 9 months they saw an 80% healing of gut issues. Takes a long time to heal gut. DMSA can cause yeast overgrowth – most of the DAN! physicians are not recommending ALA right now because of the gut issues. Transdermal DMPS works a lot better to avoid gut overgrowth. Q: Dr. Adams, Thank you for taking the time to speak this evening. How do the DMPS drops work? We have begun chelating our teenaged PDD- NOS daughter - transdermally every other day. Extremely high level of aluminum (hair testing). Just trying to get an idea of how long the drops are required. How are the metals excreted from the body? Thank you. A: DMPS (oral or IV) is very effective at removing heavy metals. The absorption rate is twice that of DMSA (oral). With transdermal noone has measured how much is absorbed in the skin. We don't know if enough gets in to increase excretion. Most physicians that do challenges don't see much excretion using TD-DMPS. Bottom line, we need some studies. In a rat study, the DMPS initially raised levels of mercury in the brain, but over time lead to a decrease of mercury in the brain. Jim's opinion is to start with DMSA for one or two months, then consider using DMPS later. (Some DAN! physicians disagree with Jim's opinion.) Q: On amino acids…do you recommend just a general amino acid or a compounded a. acid from your child's a. acid test? I notice with my son's test the acids jump up and down depending each time we re-run the test so I am thinking with all the fluctuation maybe a general one would do? Thanks. A: Doing amino acid testing is useful. There is a 24 hour urine sample, or a plasma sample. If you do plasma, it's better to do fasting plasma. A customized amino acid supplement makes a lot of sense. Compounding pharmacy will give you just what you want. Also Kirkman has some good enzymes. If you're low in amino, it could be because you need an enzyme to digest proteins better. If you suspect gut dysbiosis, stay away from cysteine, try methionine precursor instead. Q: My child is NOT excreting mercury despite chelating for over a year with various chelators (oral DMSA with ALA, TD-DMPS alone, and lately IV DMPS / EDTA combined with a glutathione push). Does one need to get lead out first before mercury will come out? Do you know the safety of suppository EDTA as far as causing rectal cancer? If he does not have heavy metals, then could the autism be due to the Tetramune vaccine meaning a virus component versus a heavy metal component? A: Not every child with autism has a mercury problem. Dr Bradstreet tested over 200 kids with autism. 9 doses DMSA. On average the autistic kids produced 3 times as much mercury in their urine. In baby teeth, the autistic kids had 3 times the mercury in their teeth. If you don't see mercury coming out after a year, you might not see it. Do you have a reasonable amount of glutathione? Regarding the safety of EDTA, Jim has not read up enough on that. DMPS tends to be safe, according to DAN! Q: We started working with a DAN! June 2004 after many years (5) of doing as much biomed stuff as we could on our own. Based on test results we are chelating our 11 yr old son with TD Dmps since last Dec. Before that we did a few months of oral DMSA. We are seeing some metals coming out but are wondering if you can give us any idea as to how long it may take to complete the process for him? We know it takes a long time, especially for older kids, but we are seeing a bunch of good stuff and just want it to happen faster! Also, what do you think about Krill Oil? We have started this with our son and we are seeing good results. Do you have an opinion as to what a good dose would be each day? Thanks A: If you see significant metals coming out for the first couple months, it's probably having good benefit. Long term use of TD-DMPS is beneficial, according to Dr Buttar. DMPS has some ability to remove mercury from the brain, so long term use may have beneficial effects, but the amount in the brain is so small compared to the rest of the body might not be picked up in urine. At least a couple months for oral DMPS or DMSA. Some people would say a year or longer. It's so important to normalize glutathione. If you chelate someone without normal glutathione, it's like bailing a ship with holes in it. The heavy metals will just leak back in. So normalize the glutathione before starting chelation. Dr Bradstreet thought krill oil looked very interesting. There have been studies on EFAs, one was 40 kids with autism and 40 controls, the autistic were low in omega 3's and high in certain type of omega 6's. After 9 months EFA supplements, he was able to normalize the levels in these kids of omegas. Q: Thank you for your time. My high functioning daughter has seen great improvement through GF/CF/mostly SF + Feingold and supplements. We have also treated her ulcers, clostridia and yeast with medications. She was extremely aggressive before and also had a lot of SIBs. All of that has been eliminated. Her current issues are mild-moderate ADHD, mild OCD and ongoing need for Sensory input. Are there general guidelines regarding when chelation should be pursued and when the remaining symptoms are too mild to take any risks? What about long term brain damage if the mercury does not come out? What about ongoing gut problems if the mercury does not come out? She is toxic with Mercury, Aluminum, Arsenic and Tin. A: Hoping to start a study soon with long term (3 months) DMSA. The only 2 studies are the Bradstreet study (single dose study), and one other. So we don't know how much benefit there is. Age 5 and under showed most improvement; age 6-12 showed some; kids over 12 didn't show much improvement (that was on oral DMSA, Amy Holmes). Baby hair studies did find there was a big difference in the baby levels of mercury; but later on the hair tests didn't show the mercury. Maternal dental fillings, maternal fish consumption, and vaccines are the biggest contributors to mercury in babies. Q: My 3.5 yr old son has been chelating with TD-DMPS for about 5 mos with great results, and lots of elevated metal excretion in both urine and fecal (with no challenge dose - just a very small dose of about 10 drops). He just had his Asperger's diagnosis removed last week. Anyway, we're considering adding TD-ALA, and I'm concerned about re-distribution to the brain. We're considering using TD-ALA only on the TD-DMPS days (every other day), every 2 hours or so. Do you have any thoughts about whether we should do this? A: There is very little data showing ALA is a chelator. One study from Russia suggested maybe ALA increased excretion. Another study on rats exposed to mercury using DMSA, DMPS, glutathione or ALA found that ALA and glutathione had no effect on mercury in the brain and kidney. DMSA got the kidney mercury, not the brain. DMPS got both. Noone has done long term studies, so maybe ALA long term does, but it's not known. ALA is a nutrient. Q: I've heard lately about td-dmsa. Can you tell me anything abut this route. Is it unknown like td-dmps? Thanks. A: There is a pharmacy that sells this (Lee Silsby). But he doesn't think anyone has measured the absorption rate, just like noone measured the absorption of TD-DMPS. Disadvantage is that DMSA oral might cause yeast overgrowth. DMPS oral causes slightly less yeast issues. TD-DMSA – need to find out absorption rates. Other than that, could try it. Jim's opinion is to use oral or IV DMSA or DMPS, since we know a lot about them. Q: My question is concerning ALA. We just added in ALA with this last round of TD-DMSA. Is it possible to pull out enough Mercury to change a child's coordination With just one round of ALA. My son asked to take the training wheels off his bike and we expected to just put them back on after a few tries. He jumped on his bike and just pedaled off! We were floored! The week before he was weaving all over the place with his training wheels on! Is this possible? Or could it be because we switched to TD-DMSA instead of oral DMSA and added TD-glutathione? Also my son is eight and we started biomedical treatments last year? What do you think his chances are of recovery? A: Probably the amount of metals you're removing is just a small part of the body burden, so it seems unlikely that just adding the ALA could do this. For example, a professor received a lethal dose of mercury, and days, weeks later, he died. When you pull mercury out, slowly you restore enzymatic function. DMSA and DMPS are potent anti-oxidants. It's possible the anti-oxidant effect caused the reaction. The younger you start the better, but even at an older age it's important to start. I don't think it's ever too late. But you'll see more benefit quicker when young. Also look at behavioral therapies, ABA, RDI, etc. Q: What are the advantages and disadvantages of using iv dmps over transdermal dmps? Is there a certain type of chelation that is more effective for adults? What tests are important to perform while chelating. A: IV – we know it works, it removes metals. High dose all at once though, so there is some disadvantage in the way of shock to the body. TD – more gradual dosing; and avoid the gut issues; and gets to liver later which is good (disulphide form). There is about a 1% chance of decreased liver function or elevation of liver enzymes OR 1% chance of decreased white blood cell count. Important tests before chelating: Check zinc levels, copper levels, glutathione. TTFD – published study by Lonsdale – using rectal suppository – nice improvements in clinical behavior and ATEC scores! TTFD is exceptionally safe. Not toxic at any dosage based on animal studies. But….kids smell like skunks when taking it. The odor seems to go away as time goes on and the child becomes less autistic. TTFD is not FDA approved in US though, so it's hard to get a study done in the US. Q: how can we tell what, if any, heavy metals or toxins my child my have? And is the oral chelation a conservative and effective way to go? We started the GFCF and SCD when my daughter was 4 years old. She is high functioning and 6 years old now. She still is not socially appropriate many times and we are not sure how much she is absorbing in school, though she is in a public school with a shadow and seems to be doing well. A: Best way to test, oral DMSA challenge, collect urine up to 6-10 hours after taking DMSA. Compare to baseline urine from same time of day when you're not giving DMSA. Tells you if high amount comes out, that it's in the body. Also tells you the chelator is working. Other tests, you can test baby hair and/or baby teeth. Jim Adams thinks very highly of RDI, that could help with the social. Check vitamins and minerals, most kids with autism are low in both. If you have gut issues, you're not going to feel very social. Q: What is the best way to raise glutathione levels when chelating? lipoceutical glutathione or NAC? Is there a danger in giving NAC while chelating to a child who has low plasma cysteine? A: Not a lot of research. Some papers say oral forms of glutathione don't help, others say it does. Probably only 15% of oral glutathione gets into body. Jill James study shows TMG and folinic acid partially raises glutathione; then add MB-12, that will normalize glutathione. NAC we don't have data on. Lipoceutical glutathione we don't have data on. Many kids with autism have low cysteine, NAC might help with that. Oral NAC could cause gut problems though. MSM could normalize glutathione too. Q: What is the best form of glutathione for the children to take? I know that there are some formulations that are in powder form and I know of others in capsule form. Is there a difference between glutathione and l-glutathione? Thank you again. A: Doesn't matter if powder or capsule. Kirkman has a lotion. Jim will be testing that in a DMSA study soon. Be cautious about the liquid and lotion form. Some companies don't have proper Ph. You want the reduced form of glutathione that Kirkman has. Q: What are your thoughts on dosage frequency for oral DMSA? I went through several rounds of every four hours 3 days on and 11 days off before I switched to TD-DMPS. I saw greater gains with the DMSA and am thinking of going back to it, but I'm puzzled by the different dosage frequency information out there. Thank you! A: Half life of DMSA is about a day or so. Dosing every 8 hours is fine, although some folks think every 4 hours is good. Because the half life is long, it will take several doses to get up to what you need for your body. If you go too many days in a row, you start having adverse affects. The 4 or 11 days off gives you a week or 2 week cycle (3 days on). Q: how do you normalize glutathione and how do you know it's normal? Is mB12 injection helping with this? A: The Jill James study shows for a small number of kids, TMG and folinic acid partially normalizes glutathione levels; and adding in MB-12 fully normalizes it. High dose vit C (500 mg) boosted typical college students' glutathione by 50%. Oral and IV glutathione can help. N-acetyl cysteine in mist or IV might help. Jill James showed these kids oxidize more glutathione, so they can use extra anti- oxidants to combat oxidative stress. Q: Thanks! How often would you dose someone using DMPS and ALA? Also, how much $$ would you need to raise for the TD DMPS pig study? A: Oral 3 days on 11 days off. Rectal DMPS (Andrew Levinson uses this method) same 3 on 11 off. IV probably every couple weeks, or once a month. TD form Buttar uses every 48 hours. For ALA, wouldn't want to use oral form. TD-ALA you could use it every day. $$ Depends on how simple or complex. To measure a few pigs' urine, simple study, a few thousand dollars. Q: Does the Pyroglutamic Acid result in the Organic Acid test show a person's glutathione level? Thanks again!! A: That's a test I'm not very familiar with, ask Dr Shaw. Vitamin Diagnostics does good tests, Jim thinks very highly of them. If you need to reach Jim, go to his website, and email him, his email address is there.

Is anyone up on this? Just in From CODEX in Rome Monday, July 4th, 2005 "Big Pharma" won a major victory in Rome, Italy today. Vitamins and minerals, for over-the-counter sale will be phased out, almost completely, in every country on Planet Earth. The "German Model" of health care will now be the law of the land - in every land. Below is a press release from Diane Miller JD of the National Health Freedom Coalition, detailing the action. Diane is in Rome at the meeting. Press Release - National Health Freedom Coalition: Codex Full Commission adopts Codex Guidelines for Vitamin and Mineral Food Supplements in final form July 4, 2005, Rome Italy. by Diane Miller JD. Minutes ago the full Commission of Codex Alimentarius adopted in final form, the Codex Guidelines for Vitamin and Mineral Food Supplements. This adoption is the Step 8 adoption, the final stage of adoption for the international Codex guidelines. The Codex Vitamin and Mineral Food Supplements guidelines are now official and no longer in draft form. The Commission, attended by over 85 of the 171 Codex countries, adopted the guidelines by consensus method. There was brief discussion before adoption taking in comments from a small number of countries and two NGOs. To read the whole article, click on the URL below: http://www.quackpotwatch.org/opinionpieces...20banned%20worl dwide....htm

Trying to find notes from biochat last night. Haven't been posted anywhere yet, that I have found. I'll keep looking.

Lisa, You are very welcome, and thanks for the reply about the milk thistle. I do plan to have testing again, to see if my son's A/G levels are better or worse, along with the other things that seem out of line on both sons and will be interested to see if new Dr. see's any significance. I really wish we could find something common with our kids at this "basic blood work" level. I know how many people are out there that can't afford the vitamins, & supplements not to mention the consults and testing with the specialty Dr.s. This blood work that I had done on my son's, may be the only testing some parents ever have access to, at this rate. If someone could go to reg. Dr. and say that they had read where ticcy people can have high/low levels of this or that, maybe it would get someones attention if the blood work confirmed it. They may still have a lot of doubts, but maybe they would be doubtful a little more respectfully, and possibly more willing to listen to the parent's wishes about treatment decisions regarding their children's care, give referrals etc. I will see what I can find on milk thisle, as I said, it seems I have read where many are using it. Will you please keep us posted on your daughters results with it? Kim

*REMINDER* BIO CHAT TONIGHT Wednesday July 6, 9:00pm EST James B. Adams is a father of a young girl with autism, diagnosed in 1994, and that is what led him to eventually shift much of his research emphasis to autism, focusing on biological causes and treatments. He is currently a Full Professor in the Department of Chemical and Materials Engineering at Arizona State University. He created and teaches a course on Heavy Metal Toxicity, focused on lead and mercury toxicity. Focus of his discussion will be mercury toxicity, chelation, and nutrients (vitamins, minerals, essential fatty acids, and amino acids)

Sarah, Just a couple of thoughts. When I asked you the question about the symptom from Dr. Rapps book, I"m not sure if that suggested yeast in that particular area, or just a sign that candida overgrowth was present in the GI tract. It was just a surprising bit of info. and something I remembered from youngest son, as I indicated to you, I was always so careful to keep the diaper area clean, and wondered why that kept happening. I have returned the book to the library or I would look at that more carefully for you. I have not treated either of my son's for yeast overgrowth/bad bacteria, and really have limited knowledge. I'm afraid when you try to discuss this with your current Dr.s you are going to have continued frustration. It appears many mainstream Dr.s do not really recognise intestinal yeast overgrowth as a problem, and if the signs of the oral thrush have cleared up, they may just dismiss your concern. Again, if you can get your son to a DAN! Dr. or an Integrative Physician, you will probably have much greater success, unless you have more open minded, or experienced Dr.s in this area than I have encountered. I'm thrilled to hear it appears your son has improved!!! Just keep a close eye on him with the new formula. I know you mention that the new formula is lactose free, but from my understanding, that is a sugar in the milk which some people do have a problem with, but you also have to remember caesin, a milk protein, can be a cause of problems for some. (other posters with more knowledge, feel free to help me out here!) Keep at it Sarah! The quicker you can identify any of these sensitivities/problems with your son, if present, the better success you may have in making sure they don't become long term problems. Thoughts and prayers! Kim

Debra, In regards to the email I sent you, I would just like to say thank you, in advance. This young man being able to contact you may very well give him the strength to make it through to this fall, when he will have the surgery. Continued health and happiness to you and your family! and God Bless. Kim

Sarah, Your list sounded great to me. Have you started any kind of testing or treatment for intestinal yeast/bacteria? (Sarah had indicated that both her son and daughter had had repeated thrush, and she had suspected the yeast problem elsewhere also). Switched formula, scheduled a second opinion? Daniel forwarded a couple of articles to me. This is an excerpt from one. According to a report in the Lancet in 1989, many infant formulas contain aluminum. In this report it was revealed that human breast milk contained 5-20 micrograms per liter of aluminum, cow’s milk-based formulas contained 20 times as much aluminum, and soy-based formulas contained 100 times as much. So human breast milk had the lowest concentrations, proving to be the safest. 100 times the amount found in human breast milk? http://www.drlaurathompson.com/scicnhealthart.htm http://www.drlaurathompson.com/communityaction.htm#Kids I think of you and your son often. Please let us know how you're doing when you can! Kim

Caz, Here is the info. I have currently, on biochat Docs. Thursday June 30, 9:30pm EST Dr. James Neubrander James Neubrander, M.D. graduated from Loma Linda University in 1975, trained as a pathologist at the University of South Florida, became board certified in Environmental Medicine, and received additional training in diagnosing and treating heavy metal disorders. He began working with children on the autistic spectrum in 1992. Since 1999 his practice consists almost exclusively of children on the autistic spectrum and children with other neurodevelopmental delays. He uses numerous biomedical approaches but specializes in the use of subcutaneous injectable methylcobalamin. Wednesday July 6, 9:00pm EST Professor James B. Adams James B. Adams is a father of a young girl with autism, diagnosed in 1994, and that is what led him to eventually shift much of his research emphasis to autism, focusing on biological causes and treatments. He is currently a Full Professor in the Department of Chemical and Materials Engineering at Arizona State University. He created and teaches a course on Heavy Metal Toxicity, focused on lead and mercury toxicity. Focus of his discussion will be mercury toxicity, chelation, and nutrients (vitamins, minerals, essential fatty acids, and amino acids) Wednesday July 13, 9:30pm EST Richard Deth, PhD Dr. Richard Deth is a molecular neuropharmacologist and Professor of Pharmacology at Northeastern University in Boston. His research interests are directed toward elucidating the molecular events that cause neuropsychiatric disorders in which impaired attention is a prominent feature. His laboratory discovered a new signaling pathway involving the D4 subtype of dopamine receptor that is linked to the risk of ADHD, autism, schizophrenia and Alzheimer's disease

Giselle, Robin,Caz, Giselle your post was a perfect example of exactly what I have been anxious about. It occurs to me that Dr. Walsh says most psyc. drugs are powerful antioxidants. From Dr. Walsh: It's true that mercury can be devastating to the brain and chelation cleans up peripheral mercury. However, most of us have a very effective system to protect us from mercury, namely glutathione & metallothionein in intestinal barriers, liver, blood/brain barrier, and the brain itself. Chelation to remove metals should be helpful only (a) in cases involving massive poisoning by heavy metals, or ( in cases in which the normal protective systems fail to function properly. However, chelation can provide 2-3 weeks of benefits just from the antioxidant effect, whether or not there are nasty metals present. Did you know that nearly all psychiatric medications are powerful anti-oxidants? I don't think this is a coincidence. I have been wondering for a long time why you read report after report of the medications working beautifully, in the beginning. I personally have seen the same results with the vitamins with 2 son's, it's just undeniable. However, I have always felt, it was not going to be the end of the road. I do want to say that this recent head shaking flair with 12 year old, has been the mildest it's ever been. But I don't want any surprises. Robin, my Ped actually told me my youngest son was probably a streph carrier. He would go in with a sore throat, the Dr. would say it looked midly red, then it would come back streph, time afer time. Late Winter early spring he had a painful throat complete with white spots 3 times in about 6 weeks, but the cultures were coming back negative. Older son had a positive streph during this same time. I am wondering what we are to do about this though. It is the streph antibodies, that are supposed to affect the basil ganglia, so when you take an antibiotic, do these antibodies not form? Do we put them on an antibiotic, asap? I know the rational answer is to strengthen the immune system so they are not so vulnerable to streph, but what do you do in the mean time? Oldest started on a string of streph infections when he was almost 4. Finally had tonsils and adnoids out. Boy did I give him a lot of tylenol during a two to three week period with that. Tylenol with codeine no less. He had a horrible time with that surgery. Now I learn that tylenol depletes glutathione. Does anyone know if Motrin does also? DO may be great for food sensitivities, yeast issues if present and allergy treatment, but I really wonder how many of this type of question he will be able to answer (tylenol) Caz, can you comment on what kind of results you have seen since starting the NDF? Kim Don't know how the sun glasses guy got in there. That's supposed to be B

Caz, Thank so much for that reply! I am going to read through all of your back posts hopefully sometime today, also, thank you Giselle. For the parents who are just starting testing, it really helps to hear your experiences. I believe when we start vitamins, as you said Caz, it is easy for things to get out of sync such as zinc/copper. I'm hoping if the zinc for instance, is getting low and copper too high, that it is actually a good sign. From what I understand, as pathways are activated and glutathione levels raised, your body needs change and there may be a need for an increase in some supplements. So we can't get discouraged when a set back occures. Both of my sons had high MPV (mean platelet volume) which I read could be a sign of B12 deficiency. This was the one I asked Ped about and he didn't know what MPV stood for. A poster here told me, and then I was able to find the B12 deficiency thing. Both sons had low neutrophils which I have in my notes "Lack of B12 or folic acid or autoimmune diease, Lupus or HIV. I'm not too concerned about the later two. Youngest also had high Lymphocytes 56.1 test range 32-52. These results were from blood profile ordered by regular Pediatrician, however I would have had no idea if I wouldn't have insisted that the results be faxed to me. Ped said he would fax it to me "if it would put my mind at ease" He said the results were normal, so apparently he didn't find these out of range results alarming, but they were very interesting to me. I didn't consider anything out of the test range normal. How could he give that opinion, when he didn't even know what MPV was? Oldest son who had been/is on Bonnie's vitamins had high B6 also. I think it was 109-with the test range 5 to 50. I wonder if P5P may work better for him also. Thanks again, and please keep us posted on the results of the B12 your using now. You should see the list of question I have for Dr. on the 14th. There's no way we can get through all of these in one day, not to mention one hour, per child. Happy 4th everyone. Kim Ps oldest sons A/G ratio was out of the normal range also. Listening to the biochat Doc's and the enzyme board, I keep hearing about liver support. Has anyone used milk thistle, or has anyone's Dr. recommended it? It's something I have been meaning to look at, and haven't had a chance.

Andy, I believe I sent you the information about Dr. N's opinion about the mercury not being redistributed the same night he was on, but as I said, I'm wondering if my PM option is working right, it was included in the response to your message also, I think. I knew some of those things would be really of interest to you. It made sense when he talked about the metals being tightly bound, and them not being just "dropped" some where along the way. He also talked about that in regards to chorella. He said even if it was contaminated to begin with, he felt it would stay bound and just be eliminated. Also, he said most reputable companies include a certificate of purity. If I'm posting something I already have, forgive me. I haven't even read through these notes myself yet. I was really sorry I missed Dr. McCandless. I thought her book was wonderful. It really makes me sad that I so strongly feel the same issues overlap with what we're dealing with, yet it appears these Dr.s really don't see our kids in very large numbers. We know from the success stories here, that bolstering the immune system, detox, treating allergies, food sensitivites, enzymes, amino acid deficiencies, fatty acid deficiencies etc. have dramatic results for our kids too, however, the response I received all 3 nights was not overly encouraging. Dr. N. said "not many of us do" when I asked the question about him seeing TS patients. Maybe as more people take this path, we will have more answers about what is most effective. That's why I think this forum is invaluable. If we keep comparing test results and the effectivness of treatments, we can make so much more progress. Chemar, Claire and others have made such wonderful strides in getting the word out, we just need to stick with it. I really think somewhere, in the not to distant future, medication will be the "alternative". Kim

A child recently died while receiving IV EDTA. Please excercise extreme caution with use of this product and the qualifications of the Medical Professional who is administering it, until more is known about this death 8/31/05 Kim Here's the reply from the generous person who said she would forward the notes! I am absolutely sure you can cross posts. I have a list called asd_solutions where they are all on file along with Thoughtful House and DAN notes. http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/asd_solutions/ Here is what I have thus far. These are all parent notes. Enjoy! You could cut and past these to a word document to compress the file to forward. Blessings Karen Dr. Shaw: Q: For someone with OCD and Aspergers what supps would you recommend? A: Same as for autism. Also, with the OCD, look at the strep connection, and brain autoimmunity. Q: What causes the pacing my child does? A: Use supps for autism; find food allergies; look into heavy metal toxicity; and dysbiosis. Q: MB-12 shots from a DAN! dr are too expensive for our budget. What to do? A: You can get a prescription from your regular pediatrician, just give him Dr Neubrander’s protocol. Q: What to do for lymphonodular hyperplasia? A: Caused by measles in the gut. You need to treat the measles in the gut. Fudenberg link: http://www.nitrf.org/abstracts.html Q: How to get metallothionine levels up? A: Metallothionine contains tons of sulphur, cysteine. It chelates metals. It is the main transport protein for zinc. Many ASD kids have low metallothionine. Check the zinc to metallothionine ratio. If it is low, these kids need to be chelated on a regular basis because their body cannot detox heavy metals naturally. Q: Hair tests A: Dr Shaw likes the hair tests because they show things 250x higher then blood tests. Metals in the hair are typically higher then in the blood. In a non-autistic, the mercury in the hair directly correlates to the brain mercury. This may not be true for an ASD child, as the don’t always excrete heavy metals in hair. Hair tests are good for showing deficiencies in lithium, iodine, manganese and selenium, which are commonly low in ASD kids. Lithium used to be in our water, but with all the purifying they do, lithium is not easily found in water these days. Q: OAT test and yeast A: High Arabinose is a marker of yeast problems. That’s the most important marker of the OAT test for diagnosis yeast issues. Exposure to heavy metals suppresses the immune system, so it cannot attack the yeast properly. Also, genetic or vaccine damage can be other reasons for poorly functioning immune. You’ve probably heard with AIDS they also battle candida. Q: Probiotics A: The good ones are lactobacillus acidophilus gg or lactobacillus rhamnosus. Also sacromyces boullardi. These are the strains that work. Culturelle is NOT casein-free. Q: Ammonia A: Some children shun meat, and become vegetarian. This might be because of an ammonia issue. Make sure the detox of ammonia is ok – this is called uria cycle defect. Best way to test for it is Oratic Acid Test. Hard to test for ammonia, not stable. Ammonia is high in ASD kids because of dysbiosis. Q: SSRI’s A: You need higher and higher doses of SSRI over time, so it only works as a short-term fix. Q: Why would high aluminum be in the hair? A: Municipal tap water is a primary candidate. Look into malic acid or malate. It can be used to remove aluminum from the body. Q: Flu shot A: Dr Shaw knows a man who went into a coma for a year after having a flu shot! Thimerosal is still in flu shots and tetanus boosters. A bad reaction to a flu shot could be from the mercury/thimerosal, or it could be from the virus itself. Also look into food allergies and dysbiosis. Q: If candida issue exists, do we stop chelation to get the yeast under control? A: Go ahead with chelation, while on a good antifungal. Transdermal chelation is popular because it does avoid some of the yeast issues. However, the chelator is still excreted in bile and stool so it can cause candida issues. Q: Picky eaters A: Several common issues. 1) Opiate addiction – try the gluten-free casein-free diet. Sometimes kids start to vary their food choices finally when on this diet. 2) Zinc deficiency – some kids have their appetite take off when supplemented with zinc 3) extreme candida – causes ulcers in esophagus, painful to eat – treat candida 4) aversion to protein foods because producing excessive ammonia. Signs of candida include thrush, white tongue, severe diarrhea, but not all kids exhibit these signs. Q: IgA deficiency A: Remove metals, IgA might go back to normal. Also supplement with casein-free colustrum, and chelate. Could give antibodies by mouth, but this is not practical. Q: IgE test showed high levels, will the child always be allergic? A: Most likely yes. IgE shows allergies such as hives. These types of allergies are best not to fool around with. Stay away from these foods. Q: Tics A: Try antibiotics or IvIG. Get throat culture, and strep test. Sometimes they get a false negative, so get 2 or 3 tests. Antibody tests useful – ASO (anti-strep…) or anti-DNASE. Child could be a carrier, so wouldn’t have the sore throat from strep, but could have Tic. Clostridia bacteria can also cause Tics – in one case Dr Shaw said Culturelle completely resolved the Tic issue for a child. Q: Lithium A: Hair metal test is the best way to monitor lithium. Lithium is not in water, since bottled water has all the contaminants removed (missing the beneficial nutrients now). Studies have shown there are high crime rates in areas with low lithium. Q: Fish oil A: High amounts of polyunsaturated acids, but they are subject to oxidative damage, so take enough vitamin C and vitamin E to make sure the fish oil doesn’t become rancid. Q: Over the counter chelators like NDF and chlorella A: These don’t have the same number of studies and amount of information available about them, so hard to compare to things like DMSA and DMPS. Dr Usman: Q: My question is in regards to Dr. Buttar's TD-DMPS, which I understand you have prescribed for some of your patients. I have read on two different message boards that some parents are dividing their regular dose into 3 or 4 doses and then give it 3 or 4 times throughout the day, everyday, along with vitamins and minerals everyday. Can you give guidance on this? Should minerals be given on the same day as the cream? Should the cream be given daily? Or in less than a 24 hour period from last application? A: (Missed first part of her answer) Dr Usman doesn’t dose DMPS every day Uses EDTA on a daily basis Q: Hi Dr. Usman, what's your opinion on the new TD-DMSA? Especially the one from Lee Silsby pharmacy. There is so much buzz around it. Do you think it is as effective as TD-DMPS? And would you recommend it instead of TD-DMPS? A: Dr Usman has talked to Lee Silsby lab, and others, about TD-DMSA. If worried about lead, she’d be more likely to use DMSA then DMPS, since DMPS is not great at chelating lead. She’s had patients that have used oral DMSA in the past, but she thinks transdermal is better, because bypasses gut, doesn’t cause yeast and bacterial issues as much as oral. Q: Greetings Dr. Usman! Thanks for participating! Our son was clearly having an intolerance to DMPS in the beginning. We tested his liver and kidney activity, and found nothing amiss. We took a month off and provided liver drainage remedies, Ruben was able to tolerate the DMPS. How reliable are these kidney or liver tests? Is there perhaps a better way (read: more accurate) to test for liver stress than the comprehensive metabolic panel? A: There is not a better way, unfortunately. There is a liver detox panel by Great Smokiest that looks at phase I (p450) and phase II (glycenation, sulphation, etc). But you have to give child caffeine and Tylenol, and Dr Usman does not feel comfortable giving any of her patients Tylenol. Sometimes she runs the blood portion of the panel only, and gets reading of sulfate, glutathione, and a few other things. Liver stress is often suspected if the child wakes between 3 and 5 am, or is very angry with emotional outbursts. With kidney they see frequent urination. When chelating, there is always a chance the liver/kidney are under stress, but there is not a good test to prove it. Q: Hi Dr. Usman! How can you tell if your child is lead poisoned? What are the latest treatments for dealing with lead poisoning when a child is also being treated with Td-DMPS? A: Anything over 10 lead level needs treatment. Dr Usman saw a lot of lead toxicity – kids had adhd, impulsivity, poor focus, poor cognitive ability, hypotonia, fine motor delays. Cutoff was 40 on blood lead at that time (years ago). Now anything above 20 is when drs will chelate. Everything with these ASD kids is additive and synergistic, so if mercury is there and lead is there, the combination is much higher then either alone. Blood-lead level test often doesn’t show lead – hides in tissues, not blood, unless there is a chronic exposure, or a recent acute exposure. Q: Hi Dr. Usman. Have you ever seen hair and urine levels of mercury and other metals go down after several months of TD-DMPS chelation with no progress in autistic symptoms? My 4-year old son has been chelating for 7 months without progress. We tested his metals without giving any chelator before starting chelation and he was excreting some mercury and other metals in hair and urine. Seven months later the mercury has disappeared from hair and urine and he now has very little metals at all in his hair. There is not much in stool either. He has made no progress and only become stimmier. Have you seen this before and what do you believe was going on? A: Dr Usman has not really seen that, where less mercury comes out. DMPS is preferential for mercury, so they would see less other metals come out. Possibly look into viral titers to see if something is going on with that. Also, you may have stirred up other metals that are more prominent but are not coming out with the chelator you’re using, so you might look into changing chelating agents, and come back to DMPS later to get the mercury after you have gotten some of the other metals out. Q: Thanks for being here, Dr. Usman! Do you think that using a chelator like DMPS (that doesn't cross the blood brain barrier) can fully recover a child (in getting the metals completely out)? Is something like ALA necessary or recommended? Would it be ok to do TD-ALA every 2-3 hours during the day but not at night, on the TD-DMPS days? Does skipping the nights redistribute the metals to the brain? A: There is a theory that ALA can cross the blood brain barrier, but other studies say it doesn’t. TD_DMPS is 4 parts glutathione precursor to 1 part DMPS. With glutathione, it doesn’t enter the body as glutathione – glutamate, cysteine, etc. So glutathione has potential to detox metals from brain. ALA has theoretical potential for going into brain and binding with heavy metal. None of chelating agents cross blood-brain barrier. Dr Aposhian studied DMSA and DMPS and it did not cross the bbb in rats. You don’t want to move metals into brain, so timing of ALA has to be just right. You don’t want to mobilize metals and not finish the job. The half-life of TD-DMPS is longer (then ALA). Doing ALA at night, you might not be working on the metals that the DMPS stirred up. Doing ALA all through the night might not give you much greater benefit, Dr Usman is unsure, we just don’t know. Q: what causes zinc/copper levels to go the opposite way after supplementing 2 years with zinc. ? A: When Dr Usman was at Pfeiffer, she saw that a lot. When supplementing with things the child needs badly, the more you give, the more the child needs. Dr Usman has seen this with methyl B-12 and cobalt too. When you start a system that has been dormant for a while, like the methylation cycle, it will use up cofactors, and the more you rev it the more it will need and use. With some kids the need is so great. During chelation or detox, it’s very hard to get a handle on normaling copper/zinc ratios, and glutathione levels. Dr Usman doesn’t measure glutathione and cysteine during chelation, because it’s almost impossible to get a read on them. High copper is also a sign of inflammation – look at the gut to see what’s going on. Also, look at yeast, because copper and yeast issues tend to go hand in hand. Bringing down copper is imperative to control yeast – molybdenum is a good supp for that. Also, other types of zinc might help, take on empty stomach, use ionized or TD form of zinc, take on empty stomach. Q: Can you chelate with TD-DMPS with very high copper and lower zinc levels without hurting them? We have checked yeast levels and they are ok A: If you’ve tried for 6 weeks and are still unsuccessful, try EDTA first, it’s a good chelator of copper. Also look at intercellular copper levels, and consider carnosine if they’re low. Try to chelate the copper out, then go back and try TD-DMPS. Q: I wanted to know if it necessary to take a break from dmps. We have been chelating 7 mos. and are excreting mercury in the yellow, yeast and bacteria is heavy but treating and having continual die off.. my son is 34 mos. old and tolerating all very well.. thx A: Dr Usman thinks it’s the wrong thing to do right in the middle of all this excretion of mercury, esp since tolerating it well. You seem to be maintaining yeast issues? So wait for mercury to come down, then consider adding TD-ALA. Q: I know this can be a controversial, yet sensitive in nature and may bring up a host of new Q's, but feel it is also important that it is discussed. Can you please expand on what you believe to be the most effective chelation protocols as it relates to different chelating agents that are used with limited redistribution in the process? Do you feel redistribution is inevitable in the course of chelation? Also can you comment, perhaps warn the listener on any chelation that promotes unnecessary redistribution? A: Dr Usman uses a diff chelation protocol with each child, because of tolerabilities, needs, etc. What is most effective for one child may be totally ineffective for another child. A chelating agent is tightly bound to a metal that it has an affinity for. When we talk about redistribution, Dr Usman is not sure if the signs being seen are because of redist, or because pathways are being opened. Enzyme pathway issues and gut problems happen often with chelation. I don’t think redist is inevitable. If you do chelation in a slow and concise pattern, you can get metals out and unburden the systems. Dr Usman asks her patients to clean up their environment and their diet along with chelating. Energy medicine, passages of elimination, drainage – emunctories. Deal with stool problems, kidney problems, etc. Dr Usman using homeopathic remedies for drainage and to keep channels open to prevent backup. When she initiates chelation she starts very gradually, and watches for adverse symptoms. Don’t want more of a burden on the body, so the drainage pathways need to be open. Sometimes genetic testing helps to discover where blockages are. Q: Hi Dr Usman, My 4 year old asd son has been chelating with TD DMPS for the last 8 months. (Dr Buttars protocol, every other day). My son has a lot of toxic metals including very high Lead & Tin levels so, We have recently added 1 EDTA Detoxamin suppository on the OFF days. I have heard a lot about Biochelat oral EDTA. Can I use this as well as the detoxamin in my son's chelation protocol?. Could i give him the bio-chelat drops every day or on just the OFF days of DMPS. Thank You A: Hard to answer a question about a child that is not her patient. If child is handling DMPS protocol well and there are not a lot of side effects, but DMPS is not pulling the tin and lead, she agrees the EDTA detoxamin every other day is good. It’s pretty potent. Try for a couple months. A lot of metals show up in the stool testing but not urine testing. Giving an oral agent that is non-sulfur based like EDTA can help the bacterial overgrowth issue. It will bind up some of the excess metal in gut. Also sometimes she uses clathrating agent, PCA, NDF, MetalFree or chlorella on off days, to bind up metals in the gut. Most of her patients are tolerating EDTA very well. There is an unsaid rule not to use two chelating agents at once, but as long as patients are being monitored properly with a good doctor, it’s doable. Dr Usman realizes that patients sometimes take on their own protocol. But sometimes you can push too hard, so it’s key to have a good doctor with good monitoring, don’t do it by yourself. Q: Can Probiotics be given along with enzymes?? Does the enzyme cause any essentials vitamans and minerals deficiency in body. A: Dr Usman wouldn’t want the enzymes to be given along with probiotics, the enzymes will break down the probiotics. Make sure to give them separately. Q: Dr. Usman, have you seen in your kids a relationship between histamine/serotonin levels and OCD behaviors, nail biting and/or nonstop stimming? How do you raise/lower these levels, or address these behaviors, as needed? Also, do you see such a thing as a "detox rash" in your kids from chelation or MB-12s? Is there such a thing? A: There is a correlation between histamines/seratonin and OCD. If a child has high histamine, the body is not clearing histamines well. The body needs methylation to clear histamines, so high histamines means undermethylating. Quite possible you have low serotonin levels. There is such a thing as a detox rash. It’s hard to figure out, there are no good studies or scientific explanation. Q: WElcome Dr. Usman and thank you for sharing your time with us. My questions is if there a natural chelator THat i can also use on my NT kids who have attention and hyperness problems my youngest who is ASD is under the care of Dr. Neubrander and We are in the process of doing the toxins test. Yet i was intrested in a natural chelator for my other two kids. A: NAC, ALA, MB-12 etc are natural to the body and can boost the body to clear metals more effectively. There are also natural herbal agents that bind – cilantro, parsley, chlorella, spirulina. Some of the natural agents though are not produced under strict enough conditions, and could be contaminated themselves. She uses Metalfree, PCA-rx, NDF, and is happy with the standards on those. Q: Dr. Usman, what are your thoughts on EDTA suppositories like Detoxamin vs. oral EDTA? Also, what are the homeopathic drainage remedies you recommend for kidney, liver and lymphatic drainage? Thank you. A: The suppositories are quite potent and quite effective. If you have gut/GI symptoms, consider a suppository over oral EDTA. Then again, some patients respond better to oral. Homeopathics are in a white pellet (lactose) or drops (non-gluten grain alcohol). Some kids have trouble with alcohol drops. Dilute in water – the more dilute, the more potent. Tends to use Apex or Energetix homeopathic drainage remedies. The names say what they do. Q: We suspect liver stress in our son (he wakes up at 3-5 am, is quite irritable, etc.), a big departure from the beginning of the process where he was happy for the first time in ages. We have reduced his dose of TD-DMPS down to half of the full dose for his weight. When you suspect liver stress in a child on this chelator, do you generally recommend reducing the dose in this way? Stopping entirely? Switching to an alternate chelator? A: If he was doing well on TD-DMPS initially, then try to continue on that. The waking at 3 could be liver stress. Other things that can stress the liver are yeast/bacteria. Cut the dose and work it up gradually, while supporting the liver and gut. Sometimes changing the protocol of the DMPS can help. You might add a clathrating agent, it doesn’t get detoxed through the liver, so it might take some stress off the liver. Or a homeopathic liver support product might help. Q: Why can my daughter not tolerate Lipoceutical Gluthathione ... does it stir up the yeast.? She tested negative for yeast about 6 months ago. We have not yet started chelation. Also are there any benefits of giving MB12 shots daily ? A: There are some children that do not tolerate glutathione, not just lipo, but any form. Could be due to a different mechanism. Any sulfur based nutrient can seek yeast. Glutathione is glutamate, cysteine, and glycine. The glutamate can cause excitation in the brain, so some kids don’t tolerate glutamate, glycine, tomatoes, mushrooms, etc. They might also crave those same things, high in excitotoxins, phenols, nitrites, sulfites. Also, she might have some yeast overgrowth. Most patients cannot tolerate the dose they recommend for lipo glut, Dr Usman tends to use drops starting out and work up. MB-12 daily – Dr Usman has been increasing 3rd day dose, to see what happens. Some folks have tried every other day or every day, they found their child had such a deficiency that they needed it every day. Dr Neubrander: Q: Where is the correct location on a child's bottom to inject the B12 shot? A: You can go anywhere on the buttocks that has the most fat. Q: I have a couple of questions regarding the MB-12shots. How can MB12 shots help HFA highly verbal child? How to tackle hyperactivity which happens on initiation of the shots? Is there an age limit beyond which the MB12 shots may not be helpful? Have there been patients who have been successfully weaned off the shots? Are there any potential sideeffects of using ELMA cream and MB-12 shots together? A: If you look at the parent designed report, you can see all the things MB-12 does. Dr Neubrander has used MB-12 even on children with very high queues, it helps them function better. He thinks pretty much everyone should take MB-12. AutismOne Handout Chigago 2005 (his website under downloads) has the best description about tolerable side effects and positive negative side effects. Hyperactivity is a release valve for these children. A lot of the hyperactivity will past as the enzymes regulate – 4 to 6 months. Age limit – about 104. In other words, there is no age limit in which it’s not useful. Patients that don’t need it have been weaned. But most bodies need it. If enzymes regenerate themselves and come back, then you might not need it…but that doesn’t happen, Dr N hasn’t seen it. BLT and EMLA have no side effects, unless the child is allergic. The allergic reaction will be a rash. If you see redness at the spot, that is like a blush, it’s not an allergy. Q: My son has slightly elevated urinary succinyl purine. What does that mean and is it alarming? In addition, he has a high sulfate to creatine ratio via urine test. What does that mean? Also, my son's mercury was elevated in hair before dmsa, and after dmsa, mercury in hair was lower, but aluminium skyrocketed. What would cause this? Will the mercury re-enter the brain during chelation ? A: Succinyl purine is uncommon. Best to talk to Dr Shaw at Great Plains, it’s rare. Creatinine to sulfate ratio is a way to look at detox, that’s what it means. High sulfate sometimes means detox is working, but also sometimes means detox is not working – it’s not simple. Hair tests need to be read by very very skilled people, because it can mean A or it can mean B. Hair can be contaminated by hairspray or other things with aluminum. Dr Neubrander doesn’t believe in redistribution with strong chelators like DMSA or DMPS. They are so strong – they pull mercury off a body tissue – why would it ever drop it? One percent of less of metals would actually come off, in Dr N’s opinion. Very little is known about chelation, even by those that know it the best. There are so many falsehoods and rumors. Dr N doesn’t think the mercury would be redistributed to the brain. Q: For children who do better with mb12 shots daily, do some children need the full dose rather than cutting the dose down? A: Don’t play with this unless you have a dr that has done this a lot. Some can do better with daily. Usually it’s when the child is so thin that Dr N recommends the daily, but he’s just starting this “trial” of daily shots, so don’t everyone jump on it. He’s evaluating. He’s done over 7000 shots altogether, so wait for him, don’t just jump onto this bandwagon. Q: my son has been on oral dmg with folinic + MB12(6mcg) 2x a day for 4 weeks now(i know this is a very low amount). he has improved in all areas and is mouthing things. we have an appointment to go back to the dr we are seeing. he starts out at 1x a week. is this ok or should we start with every 3 days. A: Dr N cannot treat anyone elses patients. That said, he has a protocol that is widely available to everyone. It’s in the AutismOne handout. You need a dose high enough to do something. Dr N cannot say your dr is wrong, esp without seeing the child. But he did one shot a week way back when, and it didn’t last the whole week. That is why he came up with the protocol. Also Dr N doesn’t start with DMG or folinic. He adds these afterwards as a trial. DMG can compete with the MB-12. Q: Dr. Neubrander: Thank you for taking the time to speak to us this evening. I read your website notes where you mentioned the correct location for injection for a slender child (which she is) and tried that for my teenaged PDD-NOS child this morning. When she had the regular B12 injection she didn't seem as agitated. Is there history of children responding better to the regular B12 as opposed to the methyl B12? I also see a noticeable regression in behavior (increase in OCD). More like two steps forward, one step back. Is this common? Her degrading and unpredictable behavior and meltdowns is wreaking havoc on her siblings. A: Meltdowns and wreaking havoc might be a tolerable intolerable, you have to decide, as you live with her. Cyanocobalamin, hydroxy b-12, methyl b-12, adenal b-12, glutathional b-12. You’re using a partially active form. You have to have all the machinery working, mb-12 bypasses the things that don’t work. You have to understand the tolerable intolerable negative positive. Q: My 3 year old son with PDD has been bruising easily for the past few weeks. Is this a side effect from one of the supplements….Could that mean that he is on too many supplements? (He is currently on supernuthera, cod liver oil, calcium powder, dmg, magnesium glycinate powder, enzyme capsules, zinc, and b12shots.)? A: Could be the body readjusting. Please let us know when you figure this out, it’s a hard question. Q: Dr. Neubrander, do you have a recommendation for how to rotate EDTA suppositories and TD DMSA? Thank you. A: You can’t get these without a prescription, so some other dr is treating your child. That said, Dr Neubrander is revising his protocols to include EDTA, DMSA, etc. This DAN! stuff is on his mind 24x7. Know that the DAN! doctors are working on this. EDTA is the strongest for lead. For lead EDTA first, DMSA second, DMPS third. DMPS, DMSA, EDTA for mercury. There is a lot of lead in East – esp Alabama Louisiana. Q: Do you use chelation with the MB-12 protocol or do you find the shots more helpful before or after chelation? We have been chelating our 8yo with DMSA for about 15 months and are seeing some very slow progress. We want to add MB-12 to the mix. A: MB-12 is a treatment that gives you benefit now. Rick has put tons of videos out on the website for you to watch. Dr N asks folks to tell the good and the bad on these videos. Of all therapies (behavior, biomed, learning), the MB-12 is the therapy that has made a difference. In Dr N’s opinion, MB-12 should ALWAYS be started first. We want low oxidative stress, high glutathione, before chelation. MB-12 helps with that. Q: Dr. Neubrander, we believe we are seeing a "detox rash" now 20 weeks into MB-12s with our high-responding son, even though we are not yet chelating. Do you believe such a rash could be indicating improved detox ability kickstarted by the MB-12s? Do you have kids who are significantly detoxing with MB-12s and without chelation? A: The observation is “there is a rash”. Is it really a detox rash? If it is, MB-12 does increase glutathione, and theoretically the glutathione could cause a detox rash. We put a lot of emphasis on mercury – oxidative stress is a big problem, and all the other metals. The bigger picture is oxidative stress means you can’t get rid of anything. Q: I have started my son on enzyme from 4 days, he is getting very hyper, giggling and running in circles, what could be the reason for this?? Along with enzymes can probiotics be given?? Along with enzymes what essential vitamns or minerals should be considered to be given?? Can some flavours in vitamins cause any sideeffects for kids, like hyperactivity?? Does bromelian and papayin in enzyme together has any side effects??? A: Sometimes enzymes do this to some of the children. Enzymes and probiotics should not be given together – enzymes digest the probiotics, so try to separate them. Vitamins every child should getè Calcium, magnesium, zinc, selenium, all necessary. B vitamins, minerals, omega 3 oils. Wants the child to get omega 6 from food, not from a pill. Every child is different, some cannot tolerate colorings or flavors, esp those that have problems with salicylates or phenols. I don’t know the answer to bromelain/papayain question. Q: If a kid has been receiving MB-12 for 10 months without noticeable improvement, would you recommend continuing with it or stopping it? Do you think there might be a chance that he has been benefiting from it without showing outwardly? (We use 1250 mcg and have tried every 3 days, 2 days and daily.) Thank you. A: Concentration makes a lot of difference, he cannot tell the concentration from 1250 mcg. Depends on what else is being used. TMG theory was out there, a lot of kids on that, but sometimes TMG blocks it. Q: My 3.5 y/o son has been taking MB12 shots (from Wellness) for 5 months and TD-DMPS for 4. His awareness and nonverbal communication have improved, but he has poor eye contact and no receptive or expressive language. (Sleep issues and interaction with strangers/relatives have improved also) I had previously done 5 rounds of DMSA/ALA every 4 hours for three days, and after the fifth round he had spontaneously spoken a few words, and his eye contact was up as well. My DAN doctor hasn't ordered any tests aside from the initial stool tests. Can you steer me into the right direction on what kind of testing I should pursue with my doctor/ A: This is why my parents fill out so many forms. This is a difficult question. There is no simple test. He has receptive language. The MB-12 sounds like its working. Chelation works slowly, MB-12 works quickly. DMSA does different things then DMPS. DMPS has gotten such a hype, we all want that magic bullet. DMPS is not right for every kid. If your child was doing better on DMSA/ALA, maybe that’s the right combo for him. Q: I am wondering if anyone else has run into pica after starting MB-12? My son used to eat dirt from time to time but it was uncommon. Now since starting MB-12 he has started eating dirt on the "off" days (he doesn't the day after the shot but the two days between that and the next one, he also does better the one day right after a shot). We are on a every 3 day schedule. I read somewhere that soil is high in MB-12, is this a sign he would do better on an every day MB-12 injection schedule? If not what does this mean, any ideas? He is 35 lbs (tall and lean) and his current dose is 0.04ML (1000mcg) METHYLB 12-25 MG/ML from Wellness, does that sound about right for his size? A: Soil is not high in MB-12. One of the most common side effects of MB-12 is mouthing objects, playing with tongues, etc. That’s a positive negative, the nerves are coming back to life. Usually 2-6 months. True pica, eating dirt, is usually a mineral deficiency. The mb-12 gets pathways working, and you need zinc and magnesium. Yes, the dose is good. Doesn’t need more frequent schedule – needs more minerals. Q: Any suggestions how to practice giving the MB-12 shot, before actually giving shot to my child. What possible sideeffects can happen if shot is given improperly, since we are just starting out. How to prevent damage to sciatic nerve while using MB-12 shots? What if a child is intolerant to Zinc, what to do abot it during chelation? A: Just do it, no need to practice. If you do it, you’ll learn, you can’t hurt anyone, unless you give it in the eyeball, and I’ve never had a parent do that. Get past the fear. To prevent damage to sciatic nerve, use 31 guage 8 millimeter needle. You can’t hurt the sciatic nerve with this size of needle. Also the 10-30 degree angle will keep the needle from going in too far. If child is intolerant to zinc, you should not chelate. But you cannot be intolerant to zinc – you just haven’t found the right form yet. Q: My son has been showing some good results on TD DMPS . he is also on MB12 shots every 3 days. I want to stop the MB12 shots and do only the chelation. As i donot see much progress with MB12 shots. would appreciate your comment on it I also want to try Vitamin A high dose protocol A: You can do what you feel is right for your child. A lot of times folks want too much too soon. MB-12 can be like a tree, it starts slowly (if child is a responder), then grows. It increases the glutathione, which is extremely hard to get in, so there’s a good benefit. For that reason alone, you might want to continue with MB-12. High dose Vitamin A has been looked at by Dr McCandless. If we give 3 things and have a response, which one did it? Which do we stop? These kids have to take so many supplements. When you make a change, make sure you know if that supplement really made a difference or not. Q: Hi Doc, what are known causes/treatments of teeth grinding. When my son does this he could wake the dead. Floating around the boards are zinc deficiency and/or dumping metals/toxins. Thanks. A: Zinc deficiency is most likely. I don’t think it’s the metals and dumping. Q: I have heard that chelation as well as creatine help with low muscle tone. I understand how chelation could help, but how would creatine help with tone and how much should we give? A: Creatine is what muscle builders use. (Creatinine is something that comes out in urine.) Kirkman has creatine. It’s involved in speech pathways. In Dr Baker/Dr Pangborn book, you can look up creatine. Q: I am not currently using a doc (used to). I do our energy clearings, etc. with good results. Just want to know how you'd compare the methylB12 shots vs. methylB12 5 mg. tabs from Swanson's, which we've used now with good results. We muscle test for frequency use. My son is around 38 lbs., but I also use it. BTW, bromelain and papaya are very high in phenols. Any docs starting to learn kinesiology muscle testing that you know of? It's the best way to individualize treatments. A: Oral versus transdermal vs sublingual vs shots – shots have the max resuts, hands down. He’s done thousands. Q: 1) Do your recommend Metal-free or NDF+? I am concerned about whether they might be contaminated also. 2) Do you have a preference for covalent glutamine over L- glutamine? A: The patients he has that use NDF+ are seeing good results, but Dr N doesn’t know why or how it works. Dr N suggests you change nothing else when starting something new, like NDF+. If something is contaminated, remember these are strong magnets. So let’s say you take chlorella contaminated with mercury…it should still stay bound. Tissues are weaker magnets then the chelator. Dr N uses l-glutamine, but doesn’t know if it’s better or not, no preference. Q: DR. Neubrander can you give us a layman's explanation as to why the MB12 shots appear to help specifically with Apraxia? A: We don’t know why apraxia is apraxia, or why MB-12 seems to fix it. Q: Dr.Neubrander : Are you seeing improvements with B-12 for kids with Apraxia . Has any child gone frombeing non-verbal to verbal doing B-12 shots? How long would it take to see improvements with Apraxia using MB B-12? My son has been on the shots ( is 30 pounds taking-0.04ML-1000MCG x3per week) for 4 months and still not alot going on as far as speech . Thanks for your time ! A: Yes, very much so, we’re seeing improvements with MB-12 for apraxia kids. The videos on Matthew, within a few weeks, he was speaking in sentences. By the time Rick filmed, he had to ask Dr N why Dr N called Matthew autistic! He was speaking so well. Kids go from non-verbal to verbal all the time on MB-12. How long? He doesn’t know. It differs. If your child responds, let the tree grow. Q: dr. neubrander, thank you for this forum. i always enjoy your hilarious (while informative) presentations at DAN! My DAN doc has mentioned the use of namenda and possibly actos. Can you tell me what you know about these meds? My 6 year old daughter has autism and adhd and she has had a terrible time with yeast and bacterial infections-we are currently treating her for a second time for c diff with vancomycin. Our DAN doc wants to try these meds before we start chelation as he thinks it will help her gastrointestinal situation. All I know is that Namenda has been successful w/alzheimer's and actos is used for blood pressure and is an anti-inflammatory. Thank you. A: Dr Neubrander has not used Namenda much, but plans to in near future. Q: Hi Dr. Neubrander! Joseph began the NDF Plus 8 days ago and now has a red rectum and it seems like it's bothering from time to time but nothing to really get excited about. is this common? He had his scope with Dr. Krigsman last thursday and he was so great with the cleanout; talking, socializing and interacting. He almost appeared to not have any problems. Is it possible that he could be this clear once cleaning up the hyperplasia, if that is even possible to do? Dr. Krigsman mentioned lots of nodules but no ucerations or apparent inflammation of the mucosa, we get biopsy results next week. what to do thing of natural anti inflammatories like quercetin and tumeric? oh, and NDF+ IS working on Joseph's social side A: Dr N doesn’t know if the red bottom is common from NDF+. Doesn’t even know if that’s what caused the redness. During a cleanout, the bugs get cleared out, so yes, it’s normal to see great improvement. Yes, he might be clear after cleaning up the hyperplasia. Hold off on quercetin and tumeric until Dr Krigsman is stable with what he’s doing. Q: can enzymes and probiotics be given at different times of the day,not together and what is the most reliable Zinc supplement.We have seen increased stimming ever since we started his enzymes and probiotics A: Enzymes eat up the probiotics, give at different times. As for zinc, whatever works for your child. Zinc monomethionate works well. With the increased stimming, it might be because things are finally moving in the body. Q: Being new to the whole idea of mercury poisoning, pardon the very general question … my son was dx as HFA at 5 ½ (a year ago). So many of the intensive therapies seem to be very focused on the 2-3 year olds. Is biomedical treatment as beneficial for an older child as a younger child? Also, being higher functioning, does it usually take less time to see results than someone lower functioning or does it really just depend on the person? A: No, these therapies are not focused on 2-3 year olds. Biomedical is beneficial for young or odld. It doesn’t take less time to see results – it all depends on the person. Q: Hey Doc its me V’s mom ok I have a good question can a child take too much mb12 and would it also help nt kids? A: NT kids can take this. He treats a child with a 185 IQ, every time before a test she takes a shot, and has amazing results. You could probably take too much MB-12, be careful. Probably not lethal, but this must be monitored. Q: Dr. Neubrander, Have you any experience doing IVIG therapy at the same time as chelation? Our Neurologist has said that the chelation might also remove the effects of the IVIG therapy. Thanks, Kerry PS We're finally starting M-B-12 tonight. I'm so excited!! A: Dr N doesn’t think it’s a problem to do IVIG at the same time as chelation. It’s hard to say if your neurologist is right without more info. There is a 94% chance that you will see something, so good luck in starting the MB-12. Q: Have you seen more OCD symptoms from taking b12 injections? My son seems to have lost interest in some of the engaging activities we shared and replaced them with opening windows, knocking down chairs, slamming cabinets etc. and if given the opportunity would do this all day long. We have been giving him injections 3x weekly for about 2 1/2 months. He did really well on the b12 sublingual prior to beginning the injections. We did that for approx. 3 weeks and saw more focus, engagement, affection and speech sounds. I decided to immediately do the injections due to the progress. If there is a positive response to sublingual shouldn't you see better responses with the injections? Thanks. A: No, haven’t seen more OCD symptoms from MB-12, less then 5%. In fact, a lot of kids that have OCD before starting MB-12, have it calm down. Q: Hi! Sorry if this has been asked before. How long will a child be on these shots? What signs (if any) would signal that a child would be ready to test if they are ready to fly on their own? I am trying to explain to J about taking the shots and he keeps telling me he is better. He puts up a pretty good fight when its time for his "pinch". Can chelation aide in restoring a child's own ability to absorb and utilize B-12 naturally? A: It’s not whether we’re absorbing and utilizing - the enzyme process needs to work, and it might be genetic disposition that keeps it from working. We got J back, don’t drop MB-12 yet. It’s at least a 3-4 year process. Q: Are you treating any patients with Tourette/Tic Syndrome with any success. I have a self limited eater with tics and heavy bedwetting. Any tests/supplements that you feel may be most beneficial?. It seems like many parents are starting to see DAN! Dr.s for this condition. A: Not treating enough kids with Tourettes to say. Look on the internet, there is a very famous dr that deals with supplements for Tourettes. Q: My child's glutathione, plasma sulfate and plasma cysteine levels (fasting blood test from Great Smokies) were still VERY low after 3 months of B12 shots. Would you recommend adding a second shot with NAC and folinic acid for this type of a child? We got a combination shot with B12, NAC & folinic all in one shot, but the concentration of B12 can't be 25 mg/ml with the added ingredients. Since my child doesn't mind the shots at all, it wouldn't be a problem to add a second shot. Do you think separating the NAC/folinic from B12 (in order to keep the B12 concentration the same as your protocol) would be better? A: Dr N quit using the tests – unless they’re done under very rigorous criteria (blood frozen immediately, spin in chilled tubes, etc) the results aren’t sound. It’s fine to add NAC, folinic, but Dr N prefers to have the MB-12 shot separately. Yes, he does think it would be better to separate. Q: What is the best chelator for arsenic? A: Authia (TTFD) is great for arsenic. DMSA and DMPS will also pull arsenic. Q: Me again, my son began to regress around a year, at 14 and 16 months had extreme reaction to flu shots, a month later I learned what autism is. Do you see this often, do you feel it is more mercury or virus related and what do you think of anti-virals? Also, been tempted many-a-time to give nt son shot. Also, got a sample shot myself one night, was studying for a human bio test and had thougths of becoming a doctot (not like me)! Luv ya A: Yes, I see this often. Mercury is the second strongest immuno-suppressent. Then put that together with MMR. Then add on flu shot with mercury. It’s a chicken/egg question. Which caused the problem? Q: We are currently using TD glutathione. Our son has low glutathione but normal cysteine and homocysteine levels, We were not going to add MB12 or folinic acid unless we did not see any results with the glutathione, would you recommend that we add mb12 now? our son has shown some positive changes with glutathione. If we were to add mb12 would you recommend that we continue with glutathione? A: People pay me not to get their kids a little better, but to get them all the way better. Glutathione and MB-12, synergy. Q: Dr. Neubrander. Thank you so much for the Methyl B12 protocol. My 3 yr old son has been receiving MB12 shots since 11/04 with outstanding results. His articulation was age appropriate after just 4 months! Recently we have seen a significant increase in scripting and hyperactivity. We have started to space our shots out a little more and immediately saw a decrease in scripting and hyperactivity. Does this sound right? Are we beginning a weaning process of sorts? A: Don’t space the shots out more. Have you changed other things too? This does not sound right. There is something that is blocking the MB-12. Q: Do you generally see yeast issues increase following MB12 shots? My son's yeast goes whacky every three days right along the time of his shots. I had it battled for a while. After increasing to proper dose per weight, it is back again. Why does that happen? Movement of metals? Thanks a bunch! A: I’ve heard a lot of folks say that, but when I test it, no I don’t see the yeast. I don’t believe we’re moving metals, we’re changing enzyme systems. If you’re giving the shots in subcutaneous fat, the MB-12 should come out uniformly. Q: Dr. N, have you seen any patterns in what might cause our kids to excessively bite their nails? My son's doing so since starting MB-12s. Only negative we've seen along the way. This has our DAN stumped (and Dr. Usman here last night). Following your Mb-12 protocol exactly, have treated for yeast, bacteria, and on food allergy restricted GFCF diet. Also, how are you presently supplementing folinic acid w/MB-12? Is it mandatory in your protocol? A: It’s common for a child to bite nails or put fingers in mouth, lips mouth and tongue are all coming back to life. This is most likely that oral positive negative I mentioned previously. For folinic acid, I wait until after the 5 week MB-12 trial period in which there are no changes. If the child is an MB-12 responder, I add folinic next. 20% of my kids cannot take it (folinic), the other 80% can. Q: Thank you for your expertise Dr. Neubrander. Could you tell me when you would start TD-LDN (transdermal low dose naltrexone) we are trying to control clostrida and yeast right now. We are using supps. authia cream, MB-12 shots every 3 days, he has only had two so far. We have seen some results. What have you seen with the TD-LDN. A: Dr McCandless has taught me about LDN. I will probably be starting it with all my patients. Most critical to me, I need to find out if the child is an MB-12 responder. My long-term-MB12 kids are better, the longer the better. Add LDN any time after finding out if your child is an MB-12 responder. Q: I am wondering about the use of raw milk in a GFSF(soy) diet. My children showed to have problems with soy and gluten (in muscle tests) but fine with casein. The DAN doc suggested we switch to raw milk vs. processed and we have done so (I also read the article on mercola.com about raw milk and autism). One of the ladies here was just telling me that casein can block the MB-12 pathways. is this true for all children or only for children who react to casein? and how does casein affect the MB-12? should I cut all milk products from the boys diets (even raw milk)? A: Many reasons casein might bother a child – opiods, IgE, lactose intolerance, cytotoxic, etc. It also can affect the MB-12 pathways. That’s in about 20% of kids. We can’t generalize if kids should be on or off milk. Just try it at a time when you’re not making other changes and see what happens. Q: Dr. Neubrander, my 19 year old nephew has just been diagnosed with Schizophrenia. I'm trying to find a DAN! Doctor near to where he lives. In the meantime, what tests would you recommend to start with? Any particular supplements?Thanks again! A: Dr Usman doesn’t work with schizophrenia any more, but she might know. I don’t have that knowledge because I haven’t been working with this. Search Hugh Reardon, or Dr Conyan (president of OrthoMolecular). Schizophrenia is related to high levels of copper. Q: What has been your "recovery" rate with older kids? You touched briefly on the benefits of mb-12 for everyone, but in your experience, how well do 8-10yo's do? I have an 8yo mild-moderately autistic son and a 10yo hf/ aspie. Also, what, if any, is your experience with PANDAS? A: Go to the website, watch the older children. Just got a 24-page fax from a mom whose child is 10, MB12 has made all the difference in the world. I don’t know how far an older child can go, I haven’t had enough older children that stayed on it long enough. Dr McCandless: Biochat notes… It was cool to hear people talking!!! and to "see" people queue up to ask questions ...some peple asked with text and others with voice..it was very very interesting...a whole new twist to our community of learning...Here are the (cryptic) notes that I took: get the glutamates out of the diet. The power of vit c and iv infusion glutathione. We have to approach these kids with everything. a course of the ivig is worth trying if you have the money ($600 a month). LDN shows promise for some children. Actos med for insulin resistence and helps the immune sys shift from t2 to t1. so just do everything. Recommends/uses authia cream (TTFD). Comprehenive immune panel …metalthione cellular test tells us how well the childs own detox is working. Dr krigsman is wonderful, a prince. Buffered vit c – as much 1000mg/day plus to bowel tolerance. In small doses every 2-3 hours to keep it in the blood stream asd long and as often as possible. Protandin has 5 ingredients –, yes all are great herbs but the drug is expensive, all of the ingredients are safe, many already on milk thistle and theanine (sedating effect), and not too many on tumeric (she uses for cancer adult patients) … actuaginda (sp?) sounds wonderful… she uses all 5 herself now Probiotic rotate only if necessary…do what works..the klaire detox probiotic is great. The no fenol, some like threelac, do whatever keeps your kids gut healthy

Caz, This is a question I have wondered about often. If something is high in the blood as you mention your sons B12, does that mean it is not being used? Was the B12 over the test range on the high side? The B12 and cystein are things I'm reading about, but they are too advanced for me at this point. We are only to start testing this month, July 14th so I know we are quite a ways away from results. Is the sublingual B12 a more absorbable form? Could you post the link to Dr. N's website (I have the site, but I don't recall seeing a "research" option) where you found the studies? Also, can you tell me what tests your son has had? It would be so helpful, probably to Robin, Karen too? Thanks! Kim Everyone is very welcome for the biochat posts. I'm so glad you have found them helpful.

Robin, I'm so glad you found a Dr. so quickly. Your post made me think of Dr. Walsh's article which I have saved to favorites, and the more I learn, the more I get out of rereading that article. I went back through some of your posts and see where your son has the environmental allergies, as does my 12 year old, so according to Dr. Walsh that would suggest the undermethylation/high histimine, and therefore the avoidence of folic acid. Claire had mentioned this a long time ago, but I knew the vitamins were helping, so I thought it may be a low enough amount, not to be a problem. From the Walsh article: A word of caution --- Manganese supplements tend to aggravate Tourette's Syndrome, and can also worsen the symptoms of OCD. Trichotillomania has been associated with OCD and undermethylation. If you can confirm the presence of undermethylation, the patient should benefit from (1) aggressive doses of l-methionine, calcium, magnesium, along with augmenting nutrients zinc, B-6, Inositol, Vitamin A & C and (2) strict avoidance of folic acid, choline, DMAE, and copper supplements I know this is discussed in other places within this article too. For anyone who doesn't know, trichotillomania is pulling body hair out-head, eyebrows etc. and just happened to be included in the methylation info. I was looking for, but someone on this forum, or braintalk has dealt with this with their child. The head shake I mentioned a couple of days ago has continued too. It is not very bad, but it is there, for a few days now. He had not taken his allergy medication this morning, and it is very windy here again today. I noticed the whole right side of this face was red and he said his face and neck were itchy. He seemed touchier in the mood dept. today too. I had him take a zyrtec, and the redness and itcyness went away, but the moodiness and head shake really didn't change. He was prescribed 3 medications for allergy, I only give him one. The new Ped. DO specializes in allergies. I would like to get him on something more natural and without aspartame. Just wanted to tell you that the folic acid is someting I have wondered about too. I would hate to give up Bonnie's vitamins, as I think they actually cut down on the amount of pills you take per day, but if they have somethings that our kids don't need, or shouldn't have, then it will be best. Even if Bonnie's formula doesn't turn out to be perfect for my son, I will always be so very grateful to her. Those vitamins have been what convinced me that there was truly hope for treating this syndrome without medication, along with this forum. Kim

Comment from Dr. Walsh/Pfeiffer Our Center's autism outcomes have greatly improved since beginning metallothionein-promotion therapy. It's no longer a surprise when a young autistic child becomes free of all traces of autism. We are a public charity and have made this protocol available to more than 100 doctors, many of whom report treatment successes. MT-Promotion must be done very carefully to avoid zinc depletion which can result in temporary worsening of behavior, stimming, enuresis, etc. zinc depletion-enuresis? Ok which one is it? Calcium, magnesium,zinc? Kim