High Dose IFOS Certified Fish Oil

[Hierge]

My name is Dave Hiergesell and I am new to the group. My daughter Blake has PANDAS and is 12 years old.

 

I have personally been taking high dose fish oil since May 2009 in what is termed an "Eskimo Dose" which is pretty easy to figure out as to why it's named that way. I never quite developed a taste for Walrus blubber though.

 

The Eskimos and Japanese have the lowest levels of chronic disease in the world. Smart people who study these groups isolated their diet as the major contributor. It wasn't the level of fats vs. protein, it was the type of oils they got in their diet, mainly Omega 3 fatty acids.

 

One problem though...

 

Due to coal fired power plants across the world, oceans lakes and rivers are polluted with mercury and PCBs. We can't fix this anytime soon. So, even though the Eskimos and Japanese have a lot of fish in their diets, they are being exposed to toxic chemicals. Still, their levels of chronic disease are very low.

 

What is the benefit of the fish oil they are getting in their diet?

 

There is a little known chemical in the blood stream called Arachidontic Acid or AA for short. This chemical can be so toxic in high doses that if you inject it into rodents in the lab setting it will kill them in under a minute. You can do the same to a human being with the same chemical.

 

When you eat the yellow part of an egg, or a lot of red meat you are getting AA directly in your diet. If you eat trans fats or vegetable oils (Omega 6 oils) mixed with high glycemic index carbs (boxed snack foods) your body immediately converts this into AA in the blood stream. Then something really bad happens.

 

The AA starts creating inflammation in the body. This inflammation is manifested in chronic diseases. The most cutting edge research from the most important universities in the world such as Harvard are now putting the picture together that inflammation is the true enemy here in all chronic disease.

 

Dr. Barry Sears is my personal guru on these matters. I have read four important books by Sears that should be read by all PANDAS parents: The Anti-Inflammation Zone, The OmegaRX Zone, Enter the Zone, and Toxic Fats. Dr. Sears is the most famous diet doctor in the world right now and bases his own research on the 1978 Nobel Prize in Medicine for the discovery of hormones called Eicosinoids. Sears currently holds the world record for weight lost by an individual Manuel Uribe in Mexico who has lost over 400 lbs off of his 1200lb frame.

 

Dr. Sears calls Uribe "the healthiest man in Mexico" even though he still weighs nearly 800lbs.

 

Fish oil is the main reason, combined with an anti-inflammation diet and exercise. Manuel takes a HUGE dose of fish oil to combat all the silent inflammation in his body due to all that fat that he is losing slowly and safely due to Dr. Sears running his treatment.

 

So, how does this fit in with PANDAS?

 

Many parents on this forum supplement with fish oil and it seems like it's pretty well accepted. What I have found though is that few really know how to supplement properly with the right products and in the right dose.

 

There are only two ways I know to treat PANDAS:

 

1. Remove the source that is causing the inflammation. (Kill the strep or get rid of the antibodies)

2. Treat of the inflammation. (Antibiotic anti-inflammation effects, NSAIDS like Ibuprophen, Steroids, ice packs on the head, anti-inflammatory diet, anti-inflammatory supplements)

 

Fish oil clearly falls in the second category.

 

Taken in high enough doses, it is an extremely potent and safe option for parents of PANDAS kids. We have to get these kids into Eskimo doses though. That means something different for each child, but in my own case I am treating my daughter according to general guidelines in Dr. Sears' books. I have not had her blood AA/EPA ratio tested though. (I understand enough to be confident in giving her a certain high dosage without any worries.)

 

Back to Arachidontic Acid (AA)

 

The only way to get rid of AA is to remove egg yellow and red meat in the diet, eliminate dietary Omega 6 fatty acids AND to... Dilute it in the body using Eicosapentaenoic Acid (EPA) and Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA). (You do need enough AA to clot normally though.)

 

Since the body does not make EPA and DHA naturally, it has to come from the diet. Unfortunately, as the properly maligned American junk food diet has proven over the years, the AA/EPA ratio (which is the best blood test indicator of silent inflammation) of an average American is very bad on the side of AA.

 

PANDAS kids from my own experience and from anecdotal reports from other parents are notoriously bad. This may be due to sensory overload or other factors. It really doesn't matter. Try feeding a Japanese type diet to a PANDAS child. "How do you like that raw cuttlefish and salmon sweetie?" Not happening.

 

The ideal AA/EPA blood ratio for anti-inflammation is 1.5 with a maximum of 3. The average "healthy" american is 11 - 14. The average "unhealthy" American is higher. Some children register a value as high as 100. Why? Because they have a diet high in trans fats mixed with high glycemic carbohydrates. Sound familiar?

 

If you have PANDAS, this level of silent inflammation is probably downright dangerous.

 

I remember thinking when I read Saving Sammy by Beth Maloney that she was so freaked out by his intense behavior that she wasn't able to get him to eat like a normal child for months on end. That is WHEN he would eat. I imagined poor Sammy's body starting to digest his own muscle fiber out of starvation and malnutrition. THAT is REAL inflammation when your body starts digesting itself!

 

No wonder Sammy had extreme PANDAS. It's bad enough before a child stops eating normally. Imagine how bad it is after...

 

Only one way to dilute the bad Arachidontic Acid then. Flush it out with EPA/DHA in high doses for the long-term. You cannot do this with the recommended dose on the back of your Costco or Walgreens supplements. You wouldn't want to take these supplements anyway. They aren't pure enough to take in high doses.

 

Let me say that again. They aren't pure enough to take in high doses.

 

There is an international certification body called IFOS (google it please) that tests batches of fish oil and rates it on a number of different criteria. Dr. Sears in OmegaRX said correctly at the time that only his brand of fish oil and Omegabrite passed the rigorous tests he considers safe for fish oil to be taken in high enough doses.

 

Now, there are many more brands that have passed IFOS safety certification making it "pharmaceutical grade." Pharmaceutical grade is kind of a misnomer, but it gets the point across for purity sake. There is a new heart drug on the market made of fish oil now so I guess it is really pharmaceutical now.

 

I personally go for cost per gram of EPA/DHA since real fish oil is so expensive. If you have 100 gallons of the average fish oil shelf brand, only one gallon would make it into the IFOS certified category. I use Omapure which costs about 1/2 of what Dr. Sears charges for the "good stuff." I am paying about $1.50 per day for Blake at her dose. It'd still be relatively inexpensive to go with the Dr. Sears brand though. He has IFOS certified liquid too. It's $80 for an 8oz bottle, but still cheaper gram for gram than store bought supplements on the key EPA/DHA ingredients.

 

There's also talk of EPA/DHA ratios. There are different opinions on this, but to me only two valid ones. Dr. Sears recommends a 2:1 ratio of EPA/DHA. The Harvard studies recommend a slightly higher EPA ratio like 2.5:1. Either way, given in high enough doses it's not going to matter that much. Omapure has the amount listed in the Harvard study and they are slightly more potent than Dr. Sears brand.

 

Here's what happened to me as the human guinea pig for this. I noticed nothing much for the first few days of taking 16 capsules per day. I then noticed my chronic low-level depression evaporate and it hasn't come back since. I then noticed my memory getting so good that after six weeks I recited a thirty item shopping list missing no items from the car after going to the commissary. Ladies, I remembered ALL OF THE ITEMS my wife asked me to get with NO LIST. This has never happened to me in my life.

 

My family has rampant cancer, heart disease, rheumatic fever, Crohns, you name it. I am 46 years old and overweight. I am now a smaller version of the healthiest man in Mexico.

 

Fish oil is a key here for parents like us to safely fight inflammation long-term in our PANDAS child. Bottle recommended doses of fish oil are better than nothing, but will have little theraputic effect. Non-fish oil sources of Omega 3 fats are next to worthless. Flaxseed oil too, unfortunately. Dr. Sears recommends a dose of over 10 grams per day for neurological disorders. I am not quite there yet with Blake, but will get her there when she gets above 70 lbs at 12 years old.

 

I strongly recommend that you read the books that I mentioned. If you are too busy then you can simply trust me because I have researched this for years. Dr. Sears is the gold standard on this issue. I know his writings pretty well and can speak knowledgably on most aspects of his research and recommendations.

 

Remember at the end of the day what we are talking about here?

 

Fish oil. It's just oil. It's not a steroid. It's not going to cause untreatable strains of bacteria in overuse. It crosses the blood brain barrier better than any anti-inflammatory substance in existence. It is a critical dietary component that is sorely lacking in the American diet. You can test AA/EPA levels with a blood test that you have to send away to a certifed lab. (Check Dr. Sears again.)

 

Dr. Sears, to be fair, never mentions PANDAS in his literature. He probably hasn't even heard of it. He treats ADHD kids and Autism with high dose fish oil with promising results. The key here is to not be afraid and give it in proper doses.

 

Good luck. I hope that what I have learned helps you. I will keep a running log of how Blake is doing on fish oil and let you know how it is going.

 

Cheers!

Edited August 14, 2010 by Hierge

[Priscilla]

Thanks for all the info. I personally am all for trying to find a natural anti- inflammatory as I believe it is more inflammation causing this than an active infection. I cringe at thinking about leaving my dd on abx indefinitely. I am a RN and understand how bad this is for her body and our community. I am using a norwegian fish oil now, but will look into Omapure. Thank you again.

[Fixit]

Have you or anyone else looked into krill oil..maybe mega red...

i've heard even though the numbers arent as high it doesn't matter as it is better absorbed by the body than fish oil...

any thoughts....

[Kaki]

We are using Omega Mood. But, it takes 3 tablets a day. And, it's still not the recommended dosage. I wonder why our docs don't prescribe Lovaza. I know it's for cholesterol, but it seems like it could be prescribed off-label. Has anyone looked into Lovaza. I'm going to look into the Omapure too.

[Hierge]

Have you or anyone else looked into krill oil..maybe mega red...

i've heard even though the numbers arent as high it doesn't matter as it is better absorbed by the body than fish oil...

any thoughts....

 

OmegaRed is Krill oil. It's more expensive. I tried it for a few weeks at the beginning which was in May of last year. I felt wonderful, but since it was the beginning of my own treatment it probably felt different at the beginning. I'd definitely recommend Krill oil, but not sure how to dose it. If you want to be safe, go with OmegaRX brand from Dr. Barry Sears the zone. There is another Dr. Sears who likes to get business off of confusion with Dr. Barry Sears. He has a "Dr Sears" brand which is a poor knock off.

 

I actually picked up a bottle of MegaRed the other day at the commissary and almost bought it just to test it out again. You folks need to seriously get more familiar with all types of fish oil and experiment on yourselves too. I've done this extensively. The water's fine, just jump in the deep end. The people in the pool are having fun.

Edited August 14, 2010 by Hierge

[Hierge]

We are using Omega Mood. But, it takes 3 tablets a day. And, it's still not the recommended dosage. I wonder why our docs don't prescribe Lovaza. I know it's for cholesterol, but it seems like it could be prescribed off-label. Has anyone looked into Lovaza. I'm going to look into the Omapure too.

 

Lovaza in my mind is the medical community trying to jump on the fish oil train after it has left the station. They desperately want to make money and for them fish oil is a potential huge profit machine. I don't think there it is an iota better than Dr. Barry Sears OmegaRX brand. I think they are only getting in on the dosage game. I will be extremely irritated if they now start to regulate fish oil as a drug because of Lovaza. Very irritated.

 

The only reason in my mind to take Lovaza is if insurance will pay for it. Otherwise go for Dr. Sears Zone brand or Omapure if you want to save cash. I have two bottles sitting on my desk in front of me and a case of it in the car going home with my little girl to make smoothies. She drinks them without complaint.

 

I'm not sure where you are getting your dosage information, but you may want to reread my post.

Edited August 13, 2010 by Hierge

[purple66p]

I have read that fish oils have an immunosuppressive effect. I am concerned that my kid is immune compromised and doesn't fight off infections (such as strep) properly and that, while the short-term anti-inflammatory effect is helpful, it may in the long run reduce immune system function. I keep vacillating on whether or not to use fish oil supplements. Sometimes I think the Internet just causes more confusion! There is so much information out there and sometimes it's hard to filter out what studies are the most important and relevant to our situation.

[Fixit]

I have read that fish oils have an immunosuppressive effect. I am concerned that my kid is immune compromised and doesn't fight off infections (such as strep) properly and that, while the short-term anti-inflammatory effect is helpful, it may in the long run reduce immune system function. I keep vacillating on whether or not to use fish oil supplements. Sometimes I think the Internet just causes more confusion! There is so much information out there and sometimes it's hard to filter out what studies are the most important and relevant to our situation.

 

i havent heard that it surpresses the immune system....

i saw something on a study out of norway???if children get more fish oil (and maybe it was in realation to the epa/dha) they have less or no allergies as adults....something about traing the brain????

 

i dont' know how good or reliable this blog is but it talks about fish oil for lung improvement, fighting bacteria in the mouth....

again i don't know just the messengar

http://www.fishoilblog.com/

 

 

ju

Edited August 13, 2010 by Fixit

[Hierge]

I have read that fish oils have an immunosuppressive effect. I am concerned that my kid is immune compromised and doesn't fight off infections (such as strep) properly and that, while the short-term anti-inflammatory effect is helpful, it may in the long run reduce immune system function. I keep vacillating on whether or not to use fish oil supplements. Sometimes I think the Internet just causes more confusion! There is so much information out there and sometimes it's hard to filter out what studies are the most important and relevant to our situation.

 

Well... steroids have an imunosupressive effect. Unless your kid is on prednisone I wouldn't be too concerned about that. I'd like to know where you read this actually. I've read extensively on fish oil and it sounds a little far fetched to me. I've certainly never read what you claim to have read. Don't believe the internet. Read the books I recommend by a doctor following a Nobel Prize in medicine. Instead of complaining about studies that contradict, try posting links to them please. I find it hard to believe that fish oil has been shown to have any detrimental health effects.

[Hierge]

I have read that fish oils have an immunosuppressive effect. I am concerned that my kid is immune compromised and doesn't fight off infections (such as strep) properly and that, while the short-term anti-inflammatory effect is helpful, it may in the long run reduce immune system function. I keep vacillating on whether or not to use fish oil supplements. Sometimes I think the Internet just causes more confusion! There is so much information out there and sometimes it's hard to filter out what studies are the most important and relevant to our situation.

 

i havent heard that it surpresses the immune system....

i saw something on a study out of norway???if children get more fish oil (and maybe it was in realation to the epa/dha) they have less or no allergies as adults....something about traing the brain????

 

i dont' know how good or reliable this blog is but it talks about fish oil for lung improvement, fighting bacteria in the mouth....

again i don't know just the messengar

http://www.fishoilblog.com/

 

 

ju

 

Dr. Barry Sears is the world's top expert on fish oil and diets. As I said in the post, read his books. I'm a little taken aback how some replies are non-sequiturs that flow seemingly from reading the subject line and nothing further. Please, I put time into this. Read my post again.

Edited August 14, 2010 by Hierge

[Chemar]

Fish oil is a key here for parents like us to safely fight inflammation long-term in our PANDAS child. Bottle recommended doses of fish oil are better than nothing, but will have little theraputic effect. Non-fish oil sources of Omega 3 fats are next to worthless. Flaxseed oil too, unfortunately. Dr. Sears recommends a dose of over 10 grams per day for neurological disorders. I am not quite there yet with Blake, but will get her there when she gets above 70 lbs at 12 years old.

 

I strongly recommend that you read the books that I mentioned. If you are too busy then you can simply trust me because I have researched this for years. Dr. Sears is the gold standard on this issue. I know his writings pretty well and can speak knowledgably on most aspects of his research and recommendations.

 

Remember at the end of the day what we are talking about here?

 

Fish oil. It's just oil. It's not a steroid. It's not going to cause untreatable strains of bacteria in overuse. It crosses the blood brain barrier better than any anti-inflammatory substance in existence. It is a critical dietary component that is sorely lacking in the American diet. You can test AA/EPA levels with a blood test that you have to send away to a certifed lab. (Check Dr. Sears again.)

 

 

 

Cheers!

 

I posted to another thread on this as well but do just want to mention it here again

 

although fish oil undoubtedly is the best source of omega 3, please do also note that there is a growing amount of anecdotal evidence that for some people who also have Tourette Syndrome, even though they are able to eat fish, something about fish oil supplements seems to greatly trigger their TS tics. my son and husband both experience this and there are many related posts from others about it on our TS forum here, as well as on this forum

 

I forget the threads that have some links to studies on why this may be, especially as many of these people can eat fish without problem, but there does appear to be a genetic basis, and may also be related to the fact that most fish oil is derived from the liver. When I have time, I will try to find those links

 

you also said in a post above

I find it hard to believe that fish oil has been shown to have any detrimental health effects.

 

So this is just a caution that it should always be remembered that the people represented on these forums may be dealing with more than one health issue and so what works well for some, may not work for others, and may even be detrimental.

Fish oil, as beneficial as it is to most people, can be a problem for others! My son uses flaxseed oil and other omega 3 sources very successfully for his anti-inflamm diet

 

I am personally very cautious about calling anyone "the" expert on anything! nomatter how many books they have written or what their credentials are. There is always more to learn and there are always exceptions to the rule IMHO

[philamom]

I have read that fish oils have an immunosuppressive effect. I am concerned that my kid is immune compromised and doesn't fight off infections (such as strep) properly and that, while the short-term anti-inflammatory effect is helpful, it may in the long run reduce immune system function. I keep vacillating on whether or not to use fish oil supplements. Sometimes I think the Internet just causes more confusion! There is so much information out there and sometimes it's hard to filter out what studies are the most important and relevant to our situation.

 

i havent heard that it surpresses the immune system....

i saw something on a study out of norway???if children get more fish oil (and maybe it was in realation to the epa/dha) they have less or no allergies as adults....something about traing the brain????

 

i dont' know how good or reliable this blog is but it talks about fish oil for lung improvement, fighting bacteria in the mouth....

again i don't know just the messengar

http://www.fishoilblog.com/

 

 

ju

 

Dr. Barry Sears is the world's top expert on fish oil and diets. As I said in the post, read his books. I'm a little taken aback how some replies are non-sequiturs that flow seemingly from reading the subject line and nothing further. Please, I put time into this. Read my post again.

 

 

Hierge- Ouch! I find this remark a little disrespectful. We're all allowed an opinion here. I am thankful for your suggestions and all the time you put in your research but again, it is just your opinion.

[philamom]

I have read that fish oils have an immunosuppressive effect. I am concerned that my kid is immune compromised and doesn't fight off infections (such as strep) properly and that, while the short-term anti-inflammatory effect is helpful, it may in the long run reduce immune system function. I keep vacillating on whether or not to use fish oil supplements. Sometimes I think the Internet just causes more confusion! There is so much information out there and sometimes it's hard to filter out what studies are the most important and relevant to our situation.

 

Well... steroids have an imunosupressive effect. Unless your kid is on prednisone I wouldn't be too concerned about that. I'd like to know where you read this actually. I've read extensively on fish oil and it sounds a little far fetched to me. I've certainly never read what you claim to have read. Don't believe the internet. Read the books I recommend by a doctor following a Nobel Prize in medicine. Instead of complaining about studies that contradict, try posting links to them please. I find it hard to believe that fish oil has been shown to have any detrimental health effects.

 

Again, I don't see any complaining here...just a post on her experiences!