My sons' organic acid test results

[Guest Susanna]

I just received both my sons results in the mail today. Both boys were deficient in ascorbic. They both tested high for VMA. My son that tics was also deficient in pyroglutamic. I won't have a chance to contact the doctor until Monday at the earliest....can anyone help me to decipher this?

 

Also, if the yeast/fungal results are all within the normal range, does this mean that they don't have yeast issues?

[Claire]

Susanna,

 

If you mean your arabinose levels were normal, yes that means no yeast issues. Cool!

 

It drove me crazy trying to understand that test and I finally found the link to the explanations for the Great Plains tests.

 

The low pyroglutamic means low gluthathione and possible oxidative stress. This is what I have. Other deficient vitamins/antioxidant levels can impact glutathione also--it isn't always just a matter of supplementation with it. It is a very key antioxidant--often considered the most powerful, and key to detoxing the body of excess metals. My reaction: This would lead me to want to do a metals test. Our doctor waited for the Spectracell antioxidant levels to show low--when that happened, he assumed the metals were high and ordered the test.

 

"Pyroglutamic - Pyroglutamic (oxoproline) is a metabolite of the antioxidant gluthathione and is extremely elevated in the genetic disease pyroglutamic acidurea and following the use of the antibiotics flucloxacillin and netelmicin. Low values may be found due to glutathione depletion following oxidative stress or after exposure to toxic solvents or pesticides such as chloroform, DDT, or polybrominated biphenyls (PBB's) and polychlorinatned biphenyls (PCB's). Supplementation with glutathione, and N-acetyl cysteine are useful to replenish glutathione."

 

VMA--hmm, a new one to me. Which one of these was it?

 

"VMA analog - Derivatives of the amino acid tyrosine produced by species of the Clostridia genus. This byproduct may be important for two reasons: First, dietary tyrosine which is the raw material for the production of the neurotransmitters dopamine and norepinephrine may be diverted into the production of these microbial compounds so that there is not enough tyrosine available for neurotransmitters. Second, these compounds may act as inhibitors of neurotransmitter production or metabolism. Elevated values are common in autism, depression, schizophrenia, seizures, and in chronic fatigue syndrome. This compound is reduced by treatment with vancomycin, Flagyl (metronidazole), an herbal product called Biocidin, and by probiotics."

 

"VMA - Elevated values are found in the tumors pheochromacytoma, neuroblastoma, ganglioneuroma, and carcinoid tumors. May be elevated after catecholamine L-DOPA administration."

 

Ascorbic

Is your son tired a lot? Another antioxidant--and should be easy to change this through Vitamin C supplementation. At least it was for us.

 

"Ascorbic -Vitamin C, and important antioxidant, with low values may indicate dietary deficiency (scurvy) and is frequently low in chronic fatigue syndrome. High values are usually of no concern except that in individuals with bacteria overgrowth of the GI tract, ascorbic acid may be converted to oxalic acid, which can lead to kidney stones. There is a low probability that elevated vitamin C will cause kidney stones if oxalic acid is in the normal range."

 

http://www.greatplainslaboratory.com/test1comp2.html

 

So did they do a wheat/milk peptides test too? I am asking this of Jean also.

 

Claire

[Guest Susanna]

Claire

 

Thanks for your response...it helps. I am ecstatic about the "no yeast" results for both boys. Given all the dietary changes I just had to make I couldn't imagine having to make even more to help get rid of the yeast.

 

I had figured out the Vitamin C thing....I usually give my boys a multi-vitamin but had stopped giving it to them for a while before the tests were run. I have since reintrodiced their multi and as per the Great Plains instructions plan to supplement with additional vitamin C, especially since my son is sensitive to oranges/citrus and therefore can't get it naturally in his food.

 

I'm still totally perplexed about what the elevated VMA indicates....I thought it was interesting that both boys had it. The high end of normal is 4.7 and my older son had a value of 6.63 and my younger son (the one with the tics) had a value of 5.35. The interpretation from Great PLains indicates that tumors need to be ruled out if the value is more than double the upper limit of normal...both boys are below that. The info you provided does say that one of the treatments is probiotics so I guess it can't hurt to push those again.

 

The low pyroglutamic is interesting. I already know my son has slightly elevated copper. The normal range for the pyroglutamic is between 20.0 and 115.0...my son's results were 14.73. I guess I'll need to discuss this further with the doctor. I had already asked her about the possibility of his having a copper zinc imbalance...I believe I read that could be an issue with elevated copper. No one seems too concerned about the elevated copper because it is just slightly above the high end of normal. She said I could supplement with the RDA of zinc...I haven't done anything yet since I was waiting for these test results as well.

 

This test did not include a wheat/milk peptides test. Is it necesary given that I already know my son is sensitive to both wheat and dairy (and am in the process of making arrangements of getting my other son food allergy tested)?

 

Susanna

[Guest Jean]

Hi Susanna,

 

I just got my son's OAT test back (as I posted on another thread). His major one is high on Hippuric. The range is 10 - 400. My son is 806. He is also low on Pyroglutamic (19.69), Pyridoxic (the range is 2 - 26, his is 1.33) and Pantothenic (the range is 1 -4, his is 0.8). My son had heavy metal hair analysis in the begin of the year. The result is normal. Our ND mentioned that my son's low Pyroglutamic may be due to his high Hippuric. Just want to share the info. with you. I understand our cases may be different.

 

Clarie,

I also pasted my other post to this thread, so we can keep the information together.

 

Thanks for your response! It's very good information to know. His Arabinose and his other Yeast/Fungal compound are normal. However, his Pyroglutamic is low. Our ND also mentioned that high hippuric may cause the low Pyroglutamic. My son has constipation for long time. Would it be the reason?

 

We didn't run wheat/milk peptides test. He has problem with dairy. He hasn't had dairy for about 10 months already. We also suspect that he has wheat problem. Would you suggest for the test?

 

 

 

Jean

[Claire]

Thanks for consolidating this Jean.

 

Jean, I should point out that 3 DAN sources (McCandless, Pfeiffer and our doctor) think that the hair test for zinc is inaccurate/deceptive for metals. That the children who don't detox metals well also often don't excrete them into the hair. I know Pfeiffer and our doctor like serum tests.

 

Susanna, high copper (and thus low zinc) is so common. Pfeiffer says they need more than the RDA of zinc to correct this--and make sure no copper in other vitamins. MT promotion, which Pfeiffer does, is supposed to correct this issue and they claim it can correct the diet restrictions. No need for the peptide test--it tends to show whether gluten/casein are issues beyond wheat/milk. Since you know wheat and milk/cheese are issues, the difference is mostly oats, rye and barley and some wheat alternatives. I wouldn't bother with it, I was just curious.

 

Claire

[Claire]

Also, since I am always looking for common patterns...4 of us had the low glutathione (Phyl, Susanna, Jean and Claire). I wonder if anyone else took this test?

 

By the way, that one doesn't surprise me at all.

 

Claire

[Guest]

Hi All,

 

This is an old thread, but thought I'd add in my OAT test results that I just got back. I had high 3-oxoglutaric & arabinose in the yeast/fungals category. In the Krebs Cycle category, I had high succinic, aconitic, and citric. I had low 2-oxo-glutaric. In the Neurotransmitters section, I had high VMA.

 

In the Toxic Indicators category, I had low pyroglutamic. In the vitamin indicators, I had high ascorbic, pyridoxic, and pantothenic. In the Miscellaneous category, I had high oxalic.

 

So that makes 5 of us with low glutathione (Phyl, Susanna, Jean, Claire, and Carolyn).

 

 

Carolyn

[kim]

Carolyn,

 

I noticed this from Claire's post above:

 

ascorbic acid may be converted to oxalic acid, which can lead to kidney stones. There is a low probability that elevated vitamin C will cause kidney stones if oxalic acid is in the normal range."

 

Are you supplementing Vit C?

 

Did your Doc recommend reducing?

 

I wonder if anyone who has had testing, DIDN'T show low glutithione.

 

kim

[Guest]

Kim,

 

Yep, I read that. Yes, I'm supplementing Vitamin C at 1,000 mg. I don't see my doctor until the end of August so I don't know what he recommends yet. I'll let you know know what he says though after the appt.

 

Carolyn

[Phyl]

Kim,

Hi. You asked whether anyone who took the Organic Acid test didn't show low glutathione. Both of my sons had this test, several times. It was my older son, who didn't have tics, who was very low in glutathione. He did, however, suffer from ocd. My younger son, who did have tics for several years was in the normal range for glutathione. Our alternative doctor was much more concerned about my older son's issues and after almost 2 years of supplements (alpha lipoic acid and other things) he squeaked into just normal for glutathione the last time he was tested.

Phyl

[kim]

Phyl,

 

Thanks for sharing that.

 

Surprising, not that son with OCD was low, but that son with tics wasn't. Did the OAT give clues to problems for son with tics? Did either have high candida marker?

 

Kim

[Phyl]

Kim,

Yes, they both did have high markers for Candida, especially my younger son who had taken a lot of antiobiotics as a toddler for fluid in the ears. He also had very high markers (metabolites) for Clostridia bacteria - I think that was elevated DHPPA-like Compound, which Dr. Shaw from Great Plains Lab links to tics. A few years ago we treated for both the Candida and Clostridia, and had repeated Microbial Organic Acid tests. As the levels of the metabolites went down, so did the levels of tics for my younger son. Since then, I only very rarely see any tics. The correlation for him was very clear. The treatment was difficult and prolonged and I am very grateful to our doctor. (The things that actually were most useful, I think, as we could observe from the lab reports, were some homeopathic drops by Pleo and oil of oregano).

 

My older son is also much better now, though he still has some difficulty with ocd. But he's 18 and heading for college away from home soon, so........

Phyl

[Claire]

I do know that:

 

1. ASD kids have an extremely high proportion that are low in glutathione.

2. DAN protocol for chelation now includes transdermal glutathione too.

 

Claire

 

ps Hi Phyl, haven't seen you in a while! Congrats on your child going to college this fall...and good luck....!

[kakrpa]

I'm researching OCD and came across this thread - I know it's quite dated by now. I was hoping Phyl, or anyone else, might be able to chime in on what's helped their children with OCD. My situation seems to relate more to Phyl's oldest son. No tics, but severe OCD. My ND suggested possibly needing to support hepatic glutathione pathway (with things like NAC, etc.). Wondering where everyone is at by now, and what treatments have worked/not worked.

[Chemar]

Hi

This is a very old thread an thankfully many of those parents are no longer posting here as their kids are now grown and doing fine

 

The most beneficial treatment my son has had for OCD is Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT)

 

As serotonin is usually deficient in people with OCD, also taking a serotonin enhancing supplement can be beneficial

The SSRI drugs had horrible side effects for my son! and over the years he has used 5HTP and Inositol under physician guidance with good effects.

He now (mid twenties) takes a low dose pure tryptophan supplement which, in combination with the CBT, has his OCD very stabilized.

 

I am commenting based on OCD that is co-morbid with TS, but please do note that for kids with PANS/PANDAS etc...the OCD is frequently related to the infection, and so dealing with the infection and it's resultant effects on their brains is what may be needed to control the OCD