Any one heard of Dr. Sims

[faith]

love,

is that what Dr. Stack said to do? (with the sticks).

 

 

 

Faith

[doxie]

love nfp

 

I also tried to perform the stick test with my son to see if there would be any change in his tics. I tried, 3, 4, - all the way to 8 sticks (he was gagging and begging me to stop). There was no change. However, as you know, I still went ahead with Dr. Garcia's appliances. My son has now been wearing the appliances (daytime and nightime) for approx 3 weeks. His eye blink and bunny nose movements are gone. However, I notice at times that he does a slow blink - like a relaxed closing of the eyes. Not noticeable to anyone else but a very neurotic mother who watches every move he makes - lol. Interestingly, yesterday he forgot to wear his daytime retainer. I was unaware of this until he commented around 6 pm that he had forgotten - and he felt his eye tic coming back. He immediately ran to get his retainer. For the rest of the evening, I was aware that he had a bit of a head shrug and his eyes were blinking. However, this morning he was fine. When he came home from school - still fine!

 

I truly am hesitant to share this, because I can't believe it really has been this effective for him. It seems so strange - but it is the truth. I still take this whole thing one day at a time...we are scheduled for another visit with Dr. Garcia in 2 weeks.

 

Beth

[love_nfp]

Hi Beth,

 

So, your son has already had braces, he'll wear the nighttime appliance forever, and the daytime appliance for a year. Did Dr. Garcia say what happens after a year?

 

You are so blessed to be 1 hour away! We are @12 hours from Tampa. My14 year old son has the same exact type of tics as yours. If you were me, would you travel that far? Do you happen to know how many adjustments have to be made after the delivery of the appliance?

 

Please keep us upadated.

 

Thanks,

 

love_nfp

 

love nfp

 

I also tried to perform the stick test with my son to see if there would be any change in his tics. I tried, 3, 4, - all the way to 8 sticks (he was gagging and begging me to stop). There was no change. However, as you know, I still went ahead with Dr. Garcia's appliances. My son has now been wearing the appliances (daytime and nightime) for approx 3 weeks. His eye blink and bunny nose movements are gone. However, I notice at times that he does a slow blink - like a relaxed closing of the eyes. Not noticeable to anyone else but a very neurotic mother who watches every move he makes - lol. Interestingly, yesterday he forgot to wear his daytime retainer. I was unaware of this until he commented around 6 pm that he had forgotten - and he felt his eye tic coming back. He immediately ran to get his retainer. For the rest of the evening, I was aware that he had a bit of a head shrug and his eyes were blinking. However, this morning he was fine. When he came home from school - still fine!

 

I truly am hesitant to share this, because I can't believe it really has been this effective for him. It seems so strange - but it is the truth. I still take this whole thing one day at a time...we are scheduled for another visit with Dr. Garcia in 2 weeks.

 

Beth

[MichaelTampa]

love_nfp,

 

I am wanting to chime in with my two cents. Dr. Garcia is not a TS specialist, he is a TMJ specialist. If you're interested in pursuing this type of treatment, you should consider if there is a local TMJ specialist that would be more convenient for you. Maybe Dr. Garcia is just far and away better at this stuff than other TMJ specialists, but I wouldn't just assume that. I do know that Dr. Sims and Dr. Garcia do have a high opinion of Dr. Garcia. When I met with Dr. Garcia, he gave me some paper showing how his device was tested as better than some other type of device during sleep, so, that is something to consider. I was impressed with Dr. Garcia, although to be fair, he is the only TMJ specialist I have met, so, it's not much of a comparison going on. It is a hard question to answer, but that I think is one thing you want to think about. The other is, you want to realize that with whoever you go with, there are going to be ongoing checkups and adjustments that are needed, and you need to pick someone that you are going to be able to do that with.

 

Michael

[doxie]

Hi love..nfp

 

I agree with Michael. It would be difficult to do this from such a distance. We have been 3 times so far, and another visit is scheduled in 2 weeks. At that point, I believe we would go a few months before returning. Dr. Garcia does extensive education of other dentists - traveling to various cities as well as having dentists visit him locally. In fact, when we return at the end of October, the receptionist warned me that there would be a few students observing Dr. Garcia.

 

As far as what happens after the year, I think there might be the chance that we have to "redo" the braces, but we will wait and see. At this point, his teeth are still intact and straight.

 

I know how hard a decision this is.....I agonized over it for a long time.

 

Beth

[love_nfp]

Michael & Beth,

 

Thanks for your honesty. "Agonize" is truly what I'm doing......I'm am going to continue to follow Michael and you. Maybe I'll go there this summer and make a long vacation of it.

 

Faith, stacking tongue depressors is how Dr. Stack and Dr. Sims tell which height is right to stop tics. There must be more to it, like maybe thrusting the bottom jaw forward at the same time?????

 

Thanks,

 

Michele

 

Hi love..nfp

 

I agree with Michael. It would be difficult to do this from such a distance. We have been 3 times so far, and another visit is scheduled in 2 weeks. At that point, I believe we would go a few months before returning. Dr. Garcia does extensive education of other dentists - traveling to various cities as well as having dentists visit him locally. In fact, when we return at the end of October, the receptionist warned me that there would be a few students observing Dr. Garcia.

 

As far as what happens after the year, I think there might be the chance that we have to "redo" the braces, but we will wait and see. At this point, his teeth are still intact and straight.

 

I know how hard a decision this is.....I agonized over it for a long time.

 

Beth

[faith]

love,

We did do that with the sticks at Dr. Sims office, but I still feel my son ticced during it. I also took them home and tried and tried, but I still saw him tic. I somehow feel that is not a great test, seems to simple. perhaps there is more to it.

 

If you go out to Dr. Garcia, you should only go if you are prepared to move forward. you don't want to go there and not make any decision. you may have to take the leap of faith that doxie did. If you are unsure of trying out this system and mouthpeices without prior 'proof' that is will be helpful for your child, then I would try to find some other TMJ specialist closer to you who works with these devices. Again, if you go that far, you should go knowing what your next move will be. you don't want to go all the way there and say 'let me think about it', .... it's a tough decision, maybe if you searched around you could find someone who does this type work.

 

Faith

[laurena82]

I would try to find some other TMJ specialist closer to you who works with these devices. Again, if you go that far, you should go knowing what your next move will be. you don't want to go all the way there and say 'let me think about it', .... it's a tough decision, maybe if you searched around you could find someone who does this type work.

 

Thought:

 

Is it possible to go to the Dr. Garcia or whoever for the appliance (since you feel more confident with his particular appliance), then do follow up with a local TMJ physician? I mean...what if you did live near Dr. G....got the applicance.....then wound up having to move across the country.....since you're wearing it the rest of your life....I"d think you'd be figuring on finding a local TMJ physician to follow up with.....I'd think Dr. Garcia or whoever did the original appliance would, in that case, be helping you find a local physician to follow with.....that's how the medical field works in other situations when you move.....?

 

Best wishes!

[MichaelTampa]

Laurena -- It is a great thought, but I just want to caution Michele (or anyone) to be REALLY careful and not assume too much. I went to Dr. Sims to get mine, and Dr. Sims told me what a great situation it was that he could refer me to Dr. Garcia for local follow-ups and adjustments and so on, because we are both in Tampa, and Dr. Sims thought so highly of Dr. Garcia, being a former student of Dr. Garcia. When I went in for that, all he wants to do is sell me his, because he believes his are better (which they may be, that's a whole other issue). I have not yet managed to ask the direct question of whether he is willing and able to do adjustments with the device I have, but I have this bad feeling the answer is he will not be able to. The devices are really very different in terms of what would be needed for adjustments. So, yes, a good idea, but, be careful. The one from Dr. Garcia you wear forever during sleep is made differently than the daytime one, and it would not surprise me to hear that this does not need adjustments very frequently, if ever (for an adult). For a child, goodness, that's a whole other issue, these bones are still growing and I wonder if they have to be remade after a while.

 

Beth -- I wonder if you could fill us in on how Dr. Garcia determined the adjustments. Dr. Sims and Garcia both take plenty of X-rays, so I expect they are using this to align the jaw forward and sideways in a proper manner, aside from determining the upward/downward adjustment. I know Dr. Garcia has all this fancy electrode stuff or whatever it is, but, did he actually use that for the adjustment? The whole thing is a little mysterious, and I found it impossible to get an explanation from Dr. Sims on how he made the determination, which I assumed meant he was using a good bit of judgment, it wasn't that "prescise" or "scientific" or "objective" as a patient might hope, at least as he was doing it. Dr. Sims did do a little muscle testing on me, and it did show stronger for 9mm than any other adjustment, but it may have been because I had practically begged him to allow me to bring in an energy tester to help make the determination (I had lined someone up, but he did not permit it).

 

Michael

[doxie]

Michael,

So far, my son has received one adjustment after the retainers were created. I wasn't paying strict attention while this was going on, but from what I remember, I believe he determined the adjustment just from examining my son's bite with the retainer. I know he was looking inside his mouth as well as looking at the alignment of the teeth and jaw. He used his fingers and hands to feel the alignment of the jaw. There were no electronics at this point. We have another appointment in 2 weeks and I will pay better attention as to what is done. I think I remember watching Dr. Stack's video and he used a similar technique when he was doing his adjustments....

 

Michael, are you using your appliance from Dr. Simms? What is going on for you now? Have you needed any adjustments?

 

Beth

[MichaelTampa]

Beth,

 

Yes, I continue to use the appliance I got from Dr. Sims. Things are pretty steady compared to what it did for me initially. It has helped with emotions and general calm, but there are triggers, fluorescent lights particularly, that really flare things up that I was hoping it would help with, and it has not. My mouth is finally adjusted to wearing the device without creating sores that are too bad, and none that hurt. My jaw is really adjusted to the new location, which makes chewing without the device more difficult, but I can't chew with the device without getting massive sores. I went to Dr. Garcia hoping he could adjust it in a way to make it do more for me, and I still consider that a possibility. All he wanted to do is sell me his appliances, because he says they are better. For now, I am just wearing the device as is, and going to the St. John-Clark Pain Treatment Center in Clearwater where we are working to align the rest of my bones, including the spine, because there are plenty of nerves, including the optical nerve, that could be affected by that. At the moment, this realignment of other bones is where I place the greatest hope of getting my issues resolved. After things are aligned there, they believe I will need a lesser adjustment of my jaw from the appliance, and that is another reason for me to hold off making it permanent through orthodontics.

 

At the end of my first (and, at this time, only) appointment with Dr. Garcia, they were talking about next steps would be to hook up to this electrical device that would measure all kinds of things going on in my head and jaw area. I was presuming that would be to help make the device adjust the jaw properly. Could it be just for fun? Is that all the X-rays are for too? Just frustrated with all the tests, and not hearing the information being used. Sounds like that electrical testing device was not even used with your son initially?

 

Michael

[Fixit]

Well I’ve thought about this a lot and I think this is very exciting.

Here is some info on tooth eruption http://www.healthopedia.com/tooth-eruption/

Seems the *burst* ages line up. Then add some hormones!

• Upper teeth:

• Lateral incisors appear between 8 and 9 years old.

• Canine teeth appear between 11 and 12 years old.

• First premolar appears between 10 and 11 years old.

• Second premolar appears between 10 and 12 years old.

• First permanent molar appears between 6 and 7 years old.

• Second permanent molar appears between 12 and 13 years old.

• Third permanent molar, also known as a wisdom tooth, appears between 17 and 21 years old.

Lower teeth:

• Central incisors appear between the ages of 6 and 7 years old.

• Lateral incisors appear between 7 and 8 years old.

• Canine teeth appear between 9 and 10 years old.

• First premolar appears between 10 and 12 years old.

• Second premolar appears between 11 and 12 years old.

• First permanent molar appears between ages of 6 and 7 years old.

• Second permanent molar appears between 11 and 13 years old.

• Third permanent molar, or wisdom tooth, appears between 17 and 21 years old.

Usually when the second permanent molar appears, most of the 32 permanent teeth are present.

 

*I know people have been happy with cranial therapy*

 

I think a lot of people here have heard of the handle institute

http://www.handle.org/index2.html

And I’m guessing they’ve had some success and they are still around, maybe they’ve had it all along

Check their exercise list

- the crazy straw and it mentions the tri nerve

-the face tapping along the tri nerve line

 

So MichealTampa maybe you need to do some additional tapping or vestibular exercises

I think I saw a site with vestibular exercises. I have it somewhere, I’ll check

 

Now lets think further…my son was breech, the doc’s didn’t know till I was in delivery, so I had to have a c section (only adding to my…be your own doctor/advocate thing, ) Well he hadn’t moved in a good 2 months..What the doc thought was his behind under my rib cage was actually his head , he was sitting up…do you see… he wasn’t head down tucked to chin for those last 6-8 weeks …maybe that’s when you stretch some of those tendons, nerves and for all the moms having c sections, maybe that’s when some of our development starts to come into play.

it makes so much sense if you watch the great reaction some of the patience have had. Now…Lets say you have an ear infection or sinus infection…..let’s add MSG (dose that contract or inflame). If you’re allerigic to salicilates(I think they act like msg for some) then that’s irritating your system. Or lets add Strep A or B or virus ….besides the basal G…maybe the strep sends messages down or directaly attacks the Trigeminal nerve. (Strep can cause organ failure for goodness sake)

http://www.healthblurbs.com/streptococcal-...-and-treatment/

 

I called a friend of mine who had to have the gamma knife surgery for her trigeminal

She said that worked but she is still on a low dose of Tegretol. Which sometimes fails about 1% of the people which was her, hence the surgery. (if she gets msg she done for for a couple of days)Anyway Tegratal was originally designed for people with epilepsy but found it works for people with Tri-nerve problems……SSOOOOO maybe….that’s why all the meds they try to put people with tics on don’t work…they are targeting the wrong area…back to Michaeltampa…maybe you need a low dose of Tegretol…..(I’m not a doctor or always right ) I’m just trying to think and collect info from all of you and people I know.

 

Let’s encourage this…its gonna take tweeking of this product and any other ventures including specific exercises and maybe NEW medications that might come with it and of course tweeking for each individual…Look at the vestibular picture it sends messages everywhere. ….. I think they got something real!

 

One more….I’ve always been able to have ds tics go away3-4 weeks after antibiotics..

Prior to this we were 5 months clear, we are now into this 6 months …he had his braces off in early March and a perminant/affixed retainer attached top and bottom so much more cumbersome than the 8 braces he had on his front 8 teeth. I felt bad for him, I would have ripped it out. For Trigeminal they talk about recent dental work….. April 6, 2009 all heck broke loose…also the highest pollen count of the year…prior pollen counts were a ridiculous 1500ish then up to 3500. I live in GA (pollen/sinus/terrible mouth piece ?)

 

PS Maybe someone would like to make part 2 of this thread..just a thought.

[MichaelTampa]

Fixit,

 

Thanks for all the thoughts and ideas, a lot to think about. I had not heard of the Handle Institute, did look at their site a little bit. I will be starting a separate thread regarding their sleep recommendations. I'll be looking to get a crazy straw and hopefully that will help with the light sensitivity, as they suggest. The tapping exercises, although they gave quite a bit of detail, probably are something I will still need quite a bit of help with from one of my doctors on understanding the locations, as I'm not that knowledgable regarding the anatomy, and some of those locations are just hard to describe with words.

 

Michael

[Fixit]

Doxie, Micheal, others

 

How is it going???

Doxie are things still holding...improving...

Micheal do you still have that calm feeling and any other improvements>>

 

i noitce for a week my son had a chew tic also....i changed the mouth guard for football and it stopped??????

when i changed guards i noticed on one of the packets about the mouth gaurd, tmj and brain injury

this is not the one i kept but i might have to go back and get it

 

http://www.brainpads.com/

then go under technologies and it talks abou that tmj space

[MichaelTampa]

My situation with the device continues to be relatively stable. I am still more calm with the device. By the way, it has never been like the device means nothing can bother me. Besides regular stressing situations that can happen in day-to-day life that bother most people, the fluorescent lights and perfumes act as triggers and I will go crazy, even with the device. It seems pretty clear what it is helping me with and what it is not helping me with. It is not helping with any of the spasms either. What happens without the device is constant anxiety and worry, and wearing the device stops that from being created unless there is something else going on (particular social stressor, fluorescent lights, perfumes, ...).

 

I continue to go to the pain clinic I described in the above e-mails, but, for a variety of reasons, it has only been every other week so far, so, I have only been 3 times total so far. It is going to take a lot longer to see how much it helps. I am using the crazy straw some, really have not noticed anything. My vision is improved lately, and my guess is it relates to adjustments they made at the pain clinic during my second visit.

 

I am also looking into the oxygen therapy I mentioned in a previous e-mail, but nothing has happened yet in that regard.

 

Michael