What just happened?

[trubiano]

I am so confused. My husband took my PANDAS son to the grocery store with him and as a treat let him buy a soft drink if he behaved. Well my son picked out Pepsi Max. I know this is going to sound strange, but my son seemed "cured" for about 3 hours. His OCD that has been horrible this month was gone, he could focus on any task we asked him to do, and his emotional behavior was gone. He became a completely different kid. I hate to say this, but he was "normal". Something my husband and I haven't seen since all this strep/PANDAS stuff started. Like I said it took about three hours and everything started to come back. We kept trying to think to ourselves why he was so different all of a sudden and then my husbacd made the joke that maybe it was the caffeine in the drink he bought him. I looked at the bottle and it says there was a large amount of caffeine, but also Panax Ginseng Extract. Has anyone been using this? Could it be what helped him come out of his fog? I am so confused right now. I know you guys know how I feel. Having a glimpse of my happy child again was great. Should I buy more Pepsi Max and try again? I hate to give him that yucky stuff. Should I try giving Ginseng or could it have been the overload of caffeine? I am sure I don't want to call our doctor yet. I feel crazy enough thinking something in a soft drink has fixed my child. What do you guys think?

[peglem]

I'd try the ginseng and see what happens. If no response, then I'd try the caffeine. If no response i'd combine the 2, and if that didn't work, I'd try the pepsi again. If it comes down to the pepsi max- I'd buy large quantities of it, just in case they stop making it someday!

 

Really, it seems to me like you've been given a huge clue here!

[Chemar]

bet your son is hoping its the pepsi max, trubiano

 

my son finds drinking strong black tea very soothing sometimes (tho coffee buzzes him in a negative way) so yes, I do feel caffeine may have a role. He drinks a lot of green tea daily too which isnt as high in caffeine but has a real + vibe for him

 

 

 

my husband has been taking panax ginseng (NOW brand) for a few months now on physician recommendation and did notice that it really calms his mood/anxiety etc

If you take a look at what is on the Natural Encyclopedia about it you can see the mood stabilizing and enhanced mental function effect

http://healthlibrary.epnet.com/GetContent....;chunkiid=21536

 

my husband did try the other kind of ginseng too but only the PANAX type has this positive effect for him

 

it has also helped tremendously with his "going problem" as he always had the urge to urinate but either couldnt or did not feel it completed so would have to go frequently....since starting the ginseng that has really resolved well

 

so far son wont try it as he is very resistant to adding any new supps at present but thought I would share the plus it has been for hubby

[Caryn]

Okay, it's the fourth quarter and the Bears are up by 4, so I will keep this short....

I did a quick google search and found an interesting article....

about the powerful effects of ginseng on Parkinson's Disease.....

 

http://communications.medicine.dal.ca/newsroom/gensing.htm

 

I hope someone else chimes in because I know that how Parkinson's is treated is much different than Tourette Syndrome.....

Maybe Cheri knows?

anyway, I also found a rat study that mentions that it inhibits calcium absorption and we know that calcium and magnesium complement each other and compete. Somehow I doubt the calcium/magnesium thing, though. What intrigues me is the Parkinson's connection.

[trubiano]

Chemar! I was hoping you were up! Thank you for your post. I haven't been able to find anything about children taking ginseng, so I'm going to buy some tea bags from Iherb and see if that helps since I'm not sure of a good dose to start with. Anything that will help with mood/anxiety I'm willing to try. Does your hubby take the "rest period" every couple of weeks as suggested?

[trubiano]

Thanks Caryn.. Go Bears!

[trubiano]

My son is going to LOVE me!

[CSP]

Just want to let you know my husband was able to drink pepsi all his life. since he did not know he had TS, we don't know if the pepsi would have helped. I just know it never made the TS worse. He does not drink it very much now that our son has TS, and we have not seen any change with or without.

 

I don't think he has ever tried the pepsi max. I may tell him to try it. I like to use him for research in the ts dept before I give things to our son. Maybe he can see if it made him feel anything.

 

Glad you were given the 3 hours, I hope you have found something.

 

CP

[Caryn]

If you google epilepsy and ginseng you will find that folks are using it for symptoms.

I find that interesting because there is a connecting between epilepsy and celiac/gluten sensitive enteropathy.

I just want to mention that folks who may see an increase in tics with pop may do so because of the possible High Fructose Corn Syrup used to sweeten it. The only pop I have ever found w/o it is in Whole Foods or sold in Jewish neighborhoods during Passover.

[Chemar]

Hi Caryn

 

yes, there is actually a very interesting research on ginseng and PD, and it was becasue of reports by one member of PD board at NeuroTalk, that my hubby decided to ask his doc about it's possible benefit for him

 

the studies suggest ginseng has a neuro protective role, rather than one of neuro stimulation...ie the dopamine receptors are being protected from the breakdown they suffer in PD rather than dopamine production being increased

 

my hubby's tics have been up since the steroid burst (which happened a while before he started the ginseng), but he is not noticing any further tic waxing when he is on the PANAX ginseng. he did not like the other kind of ginseng at all.

 

but it really is the MOOD stabilization that he has noticed the benefit on and that it 'defuzzes" his brain...brain fog has been a problem since that steroid burst.

 

most of all he appreciates the help re the "going problem" as that was really getting to him

 

 

Trubiano,

 

I have just looked at the ingredients on Pepsi max and where the high caffeine or the panax ginseng extraxt may have had a benefit, I would strongly caution against its use regularly as there is a lot of stuff in there that is baaaaaaaad including aspartame and sodium benzoate.....

CARBONATED WATER, CARAMEL COLOR, PHOSPHORIC ACID, ASPARTAME, POTASSIUM BENZOATE (PRESERVES FRESHNESS), CAFFEINE, NATURAL FLAVORS, ACESULFAME POTASSIUM, CITRIC ACID, CALCIUM DISODIUM EDTA (TO PROTECT FLAVOR), PANAX GINSENG EXTRACT

[kim]

trubiano,

 

This was really interesting to read. I remember a thread on an autism forum where parents were discussing coffee use for improving autistic symptoms.

 

A derivative of caffeine called xanthine, is proposed to affect neurotransmitters.

 

Here's some stuff that I found after reading your post. My vote is that the caffeine was what was responsible for the improvements that you saw. It just doesn't seem like the ginseng in the amt that your son probably got, would have that dramatic of an effect in that short of time. This first article appears to say that xanthine/caffeine will utilize/occupy (block) adenosine P1 receptors which are potent inhibitors of dopamine GABA glutamate acetylcholine, serotonin, noreprinephrine. Caffeine has the opposite effect, especially increasing noradrenaline and L DOPA. I can see how his concentration/fog and mood would improve, but I'm wondering if you saw any increase (or decrease if tics are present) in movements?

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=sm2ZySXTm...5&ct=result

 

http://www.progressivehealth.com/caffeine-adhd.asp

 

Caffeine and the Treatment of ADHD

It may seem weird to think of caffeine and the treatment of ADD/ADHD working together, but it may be possible.

 

The active part of caffeine is methylxanthine, which is a mild stimulant that activates noradrenaline neurons. This then affects the local release of dopamine which is a key neurotransmitter.

 

http://www.asic-cafe.org/pdf/abstract/18_035.pdf

 

Thus, the present results substantiate that caffeine's low addictive

potential is due to its failure to increase dopamine transmission in the shell of the nucleus

accumbens. However, simultaneously, the same low doses of caffeine (0.5-5 mg/kg) stimulate

dose-dependently the release of dopamine and acetylcholine in the medial prefrontal cortex.

Thus, caffeine differs from the classical drugs of dependence by its lack of capacity to

stimulate dopamine transmission in the shell of the nucleus accumbens. Conversely, the

activated release of dopamine in the prefrontal cortex is consistent with psychostimulant and

reinforcing properties of caffeine and the enhanced release of cortical acetylcholine might

reflect the cognitive enhancing properties of caffeine. The difference between the abuse

potential of the other dopaminergic drugs like cocaine and amphetamine, and caffeine may

relate to their different mechanism of action at the level of dopamine.

 

Ginseng and Parkinson's study

 

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=A...bedfc15e682f6f3

 

The herbal remedy, ginseng, has recently been demonstrated to possess neurotrophic and neuroprotective properties, which may be useful in preventing various forms of neuronal cell loss including the nigrostriatal degeneration seen in Parkinson's disease (PD). In these studies, we examine the potential neuroprotective actions of the ginseng extract, G115, in two rodent models of PD. Animals received oral administration of G115 prior to and/or following exposure to the parkinsonism-inducing neurotoxin, 1-methyl-4-phenyl-1,2,3,6-tetrahydropyridine (MPTP), in mice, or its toxic metabolite, 1-methyl-4-phenylpyridinium (MPP+), in rats. Such treatment significantly and dramatically blocked tyrosine hydroxylase-positive cell loss in the substantia nigra and reduced the appearance of locomotor dysfunction. Thus, oral administration of ginseng appears to provide protection against neurotoxicity in rodent models of PD. Further examination of the neuroprotective actions of ginseng and its various elements may provide a potential means of slowing the progress of PD.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrosine_hydroxylase

 

Tyrosine hydroxylase or tyrosine 3-monooxygenase is the enzyme responsible for catalyzing the conversion of the amino acid L-tyrosine to dihydroxyphenylalanine (DOPA). DOPA is a precursor for dopamine which in turn is a precursor for norepinephrine (noradrenaline) and epinephrine (adrenaline).

[EAMom]

Great post Kim

 

And it would be easy to test whether it was the caffeine.

Give ds a bevarage (or pill) with the equivalent amount of caffeine (but no gingseng) and see what happens?

 

This is assuming there aren't other ingredients in Pepsi Max that a beneficial/potentiates the caffeine.

 

Who knows, maybe the aspartame had something to do with it?

 

A bit off topic...here's a article about glucosamine and autoimmune dz.....just an example that there are other things out there that can influence the immune system (or brain) and probably many we aren't aware of yet.

 

http://www.newscientist.com/channel/health...=mg19426074.500

[michele]

This is so exciting and interesting. I have arthritis and I think they say glucosamine and chondroitin are good supplements for it. I should be on it I know. I would love to try the caffeine approach on my son but I worry about the neg affects of the hyper issue from the corn syrup and then the bad additive ingredients like aspartame which I don't ever give my kids. Plus I try to avoid the high fructose corn syrup altogether with Andrew. When the school asked me what foods I don't give Andrew, I told them red dye and high fructose corn syrup. They thought I said bread dyes and did not understand the connection of dyes and sugar with kids behaviors. I guess they don't listen to the news about the bad effects of these foods with kids with ADHD. I worry about cancer aspartame connection so I don't know how safe Pepsi Max would be for kids. However I would love to find a food that would improve mood and behaviors! Has anyone ever heard how the ingredients Ginseng and caffeine react to kids with hyperactivity? Thanks for sharing your interesting discovery! Koodos to you for being so observant.

 

Michele

Great post Kim

 

And it would be easy to test whether it was the caffeine.

Give ds a bevarage (or pill) with the equivalent amount of caffeine (but no gingseng) and see what happens?

 

This is assuming there aren't other ingredients in Pepsi Max that a beneficial/potentiates the caffeine.

 

Who knows, maybe the aspartame had something to do with it?

 

A bit off topic...here's a article about glucosamine and autoimmune dz.....just an example that there are other things out there that can influence the immune system (or brain) and probably many we aren't aware of yet.

 

http://www.newscientist.com/channel/health...=mg19426074.500

[Chemar]

I really do want to caution again about the other ingredients in Pepsi Max so no one starts giving it to their kids in hopes of medicinal benefit.

 

aspartame is known to be one of the biggest tic triggering food additives in addition to other effects on the neurological system etc and the evidence mounting about the very dangerous effects of sodium benzoate make it alarming considering how many foods it is in

 

I do think the benefits trubiano noted were related to the very high caffeine content and /or the panax ginseng

and that this was related to mood and anxiety and focus etc not to tics. caffeine and possibly even ginseng are not generally considered good for tics...in fact the opposite with regards to caffeine which seems to be a tic trigger for many

 

again one needs to balance benefits in one area vs negatives in others....but at the end of it all I really dont feel, looking at pepsi max ingredients, that one should consider it "good" for kids, especially any with neurological disorders. I dont imagine for one moment that trubiano was suggesting that...rather noting a result from an unexpected source and trying to determine what caused the positive effect

lol tho I am sure her son is definitely trying to get her to buy pepsi max by the case full

[Chemar]

ps I take glucosamine for rheumatoid arthritis and it helps BIG time

 

I can feel the difference if I dont take it!