MomWithOCDSon Posted August 31, 2010 Report Posted August 31, 2010 My dad, a cancer survivor from the 1960s, has paid a high price for that survival over the years. Most notably, all those radiation treatments left him with bone and vertebra disc loss over the years, as well as arteries full of scar tissue, resulting in cardiovascular disease. He's always been a trooper and a big believer in holistic approaches: all natural, organic, meat-free diet, yoga, meditation, etc., and it's brought him another almost 50 years beyond where he was thought to be capable of walking the planet. For the last several years, though, his vertebra deterioration has brought him to be wheelchair bound and in nearly constant pain from the bone-on-bone in his spine. So, a few days ago, he began to behave very erratically. Suddenly, he couldn't control his motorized wheelchair in the house . . . kept running into furniture, walls, etc. Then he started talking nonsense to my mom, telling her, for instance, that he'd just taken a bath, even though he, the tub and all the towels remained bone dry. It wasn't until a full 24 hours later that he sprouted a fever of 102 degrees that my mom realized he was sick and got him to the ER. Long story short, he had developed a urinary tract infection from which he felt no pain because of the meds he takes for his back pain, and the fever was a late bloomer in terms of the infection's profile. But the mental "zaniness" and confusion? The doctors say it is COMMON . . . especially among the elderly . . . for urinary tract infections to cause mental issues! Once Dad had about 12 hours of antibiotics in him, the "crazy talk" ceased and he no longer imagined he'd done things he hadn't. It was as though the "moments of mental illness" had never existed at all!
AmySLP Posted August 31, 2010 Report Posted August 31, 2010 Nancy, I didn't even have to get to the part of the UTI dx. to know what you were going to say. I work in Long Term Care/Rehab as a speech pathologist-I see this happen all the time. People admitted to the ER with change of mental status and lo and behold they have a UTI. We see it at the nursing home almost daily-if the person is not acting themselves mentally, they test for a UTI. This is a known fact by many geriatric practioners. Very interesting-I never even tied it together that way!
Chemar Posted August 31, 2010 Report Posted August 31, 2010 It has long been recognized that when people have infection and fever it can impair their mental functions one of the reasons it is called "raging fever", fevered "delirium" etc
MomWithOCDSon Posted August 31, 2010 Author Report Posted August 31, 2010 It has long been recognized that when people have infection and fever it can impair their mental functions one of the reasons it is called "raging fever", fevered "delirium" etc Ah, yes! But when the delirium comes well in ADVANCE of the fever?!?! I've seen people out of their minds in the midst of a high fever, but I've never seen it before the fever itself shows up.
thereishope Posted August 31, 2010 Report Posted August 31, 2010 With my son's first PANDAS exacerbation, the PANDAS symptoms (OCD, meltdowns, etc) surfaced a few days prior to a one day 102.6 fever. That one day fever did not occur in subsequent strep triggered exacerbations. It has long been recognized that when people have infection and fever it can impair their mental functions one of the reasons it is called "raging fever", fevered "delirium" etc Ah, yes! But when the delirium comes well in ADVANCE of the fever?!?! I've seen people out of their minds in the midst of a high fever, but I've never seen it before the fever itself shows up.
EAMom Posted August 31, 2010 Report Posted August 31, 2010 with dd's first (suspected) PANDAS episode (age 4.5years) she had urinary frequency for a few days b-4 she got a high fever (I suspect that was strep, but when we brought her in no throat culture was done).
Chemar Posted August 31, 2010 Report Posted August 31, 2010 the fever is a symptom of the infection, just as the delirium is. I think we are all saying the same thing here.
GraceUnderPressure Posted August 31, 2010 Report Posted August 31, 2010 That's really interesting to me - my ds is still normal mentally, but one of the first signs that we began to see at the beginning of his condition, was that he would tell us that he had said or done something that it was obvious he had not done or said. We were very puzzled because it was clear that he completely believed what he was saying (he was the kind of kid who never lied) and got very upset that we didn't believe him. I wonder if there is any research on what part of the brain is being affected to cause that to happen? ~Grace
forjpj Posted August 31, 2010 Report Posted August 31, 2010 My dad is end-stage Alzheimers, and therefore unable to communicate and put two meaningful words together. But my mom can always tell when he has a uti, by the "crazy talk" he will do. Why is it such a stretch for the pediatricians to think the same thing?
GraceUnderPressure Posted August 31, 2010 Report Posted August 31, 2010 My dad is end-stage Alzheimers, and therefore unable to communicate and put two meaningful words together. But my mom can always tell when he has a uti, by the "crazy talk" he will do. Why is it such a stretch for the pediatricians to think the same thing? Cuz it's not in the books...
Chemar Posted August 31, 2010 Report Posted August 31, 2010 Cuz it's not in the books... aint that the truth it astounds me how conventional physicians refuse to actually listen to the roar of "anecdotal evidence" that would clearly show them a direction in many areas of healing but nope, if it isn't in their book, or "scientifically proven" they refuse to see what is right there before their eyes, if they would just bother to take off the blinders and LOOK!
GraceUnderPressure Posted August 31, 2010 Report Posted August 31, 2010 Amen, sister! If I hear "corrolation does not equal causation" as a justification for ignoring the elephant in the room ONE MORE TIME, I'm sure I will EXPLODE! It only means that corrolation does not NECESSARILY equal causation, yet they use it as an excuse not to explore things any further - let's wait a decade or so for the double blind studies, then we can take another couple of decades figuring out what to do about it - and I would be willing to bet that corrolation FREQUENTLY is involved with causation.
thereishope Posted August 31, 2010 Report Posted August 31, 2010 Yes, in hindsight I see that. Unfortunately, for us since the fever was for one day and no sore throat, we never suspected strep. Again, oddly that was the only time he even had the one day fever from strep. In all subsequent strep infections he had no fever at all. I say my son doesn't get symptoms of strep except for his PANDAS behaviors. For him, PANDAS is his symptom of strep. the fever is a symptom of the infection, just as the delirium is. I think we are all saying the same thing here.
Fixit Posted August 31, 2010 Report Posted August 31, 2010 Yes, in hindsight I see that. Unfortunately, for us since the fever was for one day and no sore throat, we never suspected strep. Again, oddly that was the only time he even had the one day fever from strep. In all subsequent strep infections he had no fever at all. I say my son doesn't get symptoms of strep except for his PANDAS behaviors. For him, PANDAS is his symptom of strep. the fever is a symptom of the infection, just as the delirium is. I think we are all saying the same thing here. that's how it worked for us..the 1st 2 times..he threw up..no fever...didn't know anything about strep...by 3rd time no strep symptoms just wake up ticcing and i would take him in, to get throat checked...and was told 2nd and 3rd time a coincidence..stopped mentioning it..tics are the first sign of illness for ds
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