Does a positive 41 band on Lyme's test mean you have Lyme's di

[colleenrn]

Last month my 4 kids and I have lots of lab work done. I have not been able to talk with Dr. Trifiletti yet about his interpretation of the results, but I obtained all of our labs today.

 

We did the Lyme Disease antibodies western blot (IgG, IgM)

 

Only one of my children (9 year old son) tested positive, but only on the 41 band. All other bands (18,23,28,30,39,45,58,66,93) were negative or non-reactive. Does this mean he has Lyme's disease? I know that the CDC says 3 bands have to be positive, but I also know a lot of parents on this forum who say the CDC is incorrect.

 

My ASO (which I already knew and am on zithromax daily now) was 396, but today I found out my anti DNase B is 85 and my streptozyme (on lab sheet it is called anti-strep exoenzyme) is 400. The normal should be less than 100.

 

I am not sure if this means I also have myco plasma pneumo, but this is the result:

M.pneumoniae Ab IgG HIGH 2.27 ISR (negative is less than 0.9 annd positive is over 1.1)

I hope to God that I am not the one with strep and mycoplasma pneumo making my babies worse.

 

Anyt thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated!!

 

Colleen

Edited July 28, 2010 by colleenrn

[justinekno]

I think that 41 band is the big mystery! My son was also positive for this band (IgG) and Dr. T. commented that he sees that in alot of PANDAS kids. He thought it likely meant an infection with a flagellated bacterium (not Lyme) that perhaps triggers PANDAS in kids. We have gone forward with Lyme testing through IGenex only because we are looking into whether I passed Lyme onto my son in utero (I had Lyme before he was born).

 

I'm sure the people on here who are experienced with Lyme will chime in (I hope!)... I think you can search 41 band on this board and see some past threads that discuss it too. Also, I googled 41 band and got some Lyme sites but that was alot of conflicting info so not sure how much help that would be!

 

Last month my 4 kids and I have lots of lab work done. I have not been able to talk with Dr. Trifiletti yet about his interpretation of the results, but I obtained all of our labs today.

 

We did the Lyme Disease antibodies western blot (IgG, IgM)

 

Only one of my children (9 year old son) tested positive, but only on the 41 band. All other bands (18,23,28,30,39,45,58,66,93) were negative or non-reactive. Does this mean he has Lyme's disease? I know that the CDC says 3 bands have to be positive, but I also know a lot of parents on this forum who say the CDC is incorrect.

 

Edited July 28, 2010 by justinekno

[KeithandElizabeth]

Hi Colleen:

 

My advice would be to check lyme via IGENEX since they also include the lyme bands 31 and 34, which are not on the test you did. I now know of at least 5 families who only had a positive on the 41 band on regular Western Blot and then had a positive IGENEX test. Again, I would check the immune complexes as well since elevated immune complexes can lead to a false negative lyme test since the lyme antibodies are tied up into the complexes.

 

Elizabeth

[sf_mom]

On the Igenex results it clearly states ****** Presence of only one double starred band or indeterminate double starred bands in a negative report may indicate clinical significance. Therefore, we recommend testing with another method and/or retesting in 4 to 6 weeks****** Band 41 is considered to be one of the double starred bands.

 

Both my children: older DS (IVIG treatment) and younger DD (no IVIG treatment) are both positive for band 41: IGG and IGM. We are meeting with Dr. Steve Harris (father own's Igenex) in 12 days...... I hope to get a better perspective on the specifics on band 41 once we talk and I'll post when I know more.

 

-Wendy

[colleenrn]

Thanks everyone. It sounds like we need to do the Igenex testing.

 

Wendy- I am eager to hear what hapens at your meeting. Have you done any further testing for Lymes yet?

Colleen

[smartyjones]

I'll post when I know more.

 

-Wendy

 

 

please do - i'd be so very interested to hear what you find out at that appt! thanks.

[JTs-Mom]

I agree with Justine. Unfortuntately, band 41 is a mystery. From my understanding, it is representative of the flagella portion of bacteria. So... it CAN be Lyme, but it could also be any other type of bacteria with flagella such as H. Pylori, E. Coli, Salmonella, etc. So... that's why most docs would usually want to see other bands besides just 41 before concluding Lyme. A history of a known tick bite with just band 41 might be a little more persuasive for concluding Lyme.

 

I agree with Elizabeth that your son should get the IGeneX western blots if you live in an endemic area, he has a history of a tick bite, or you just want a more conclusive test. My son was CDC negative, but he had positive bands 31 and 34, plus 3 others. (He was positive by IGeneX criteria.) As Elizabeth has mentioned, 31 and 34 are very indicative of Lyme, and my son had a history of tick bites 6 months prior to his symptoms starting. Band 31 has some cross-reactivity with viruses and IGeneX has methods of dealing with that, but they also have a 31 kDa epitope test that can confirm that the positive reaction at band 31 is due to borrelia and not some type of virus. My son was also positive on that test.

 

Good luck!

[justinekno]

Which tests did you do through IGenex? Was it one of the packaged tests? When you say he was positive for bands 31 & 34, was that the CDC Western Blot or through IGenex? Did he have the 41 positive band through the CDC WB?

 

 

 

I agree with Elizabeth that your son should get the IGeneX western blots if you live in an endemic area, he has a history of a tick bite, or you just want a more conclusive test. My son was CDC negative, but he had positive bands 31 and 34, plus 3 others. (He was positive by IGeneX criteria.) As Elizabeth has mentioned, 31 and 34 are very indicative of Lyme, and my son had a history of tick bites 6 months prior to his symptoms starting. Band 31 has some cross-reactivity with viruses and IGeneX has methods of dealing with that, but they also have a 31 kDa epitope test that can confirm that the positive reaction at band 31 is due to borrelia and not some type of virus. My son was also positive on that test.

 

Good luck!

[philamom]

I agree with Justine. Unfortuntately, band 41 is a mystery. From my understanding, it is representative of the flagella portion of bacteria. So... it CAN be Lyme, but it could also be any other type of bacteria with flagella such as H. Pylori, E. Coli, Salmonella, etc. So... that's why most docs would usually want to see other bands besides just 41 before concluding Lyme. A history of a known tick bite with just band 41 might be a little more persuasive for concluding Lyme.

 

I agree with Elizabeth that your son should get the IGeneX western blots if you live in an endemic area, he has a history of a tick bite, or you just want a more conclusive test. My son was CDC negative, but he had positive bands 31 and 34, plus 3 others. (He was positive by IGeneX criteria.) As Elizabeth has mentioned, 31 and 34 are very indicative of Lyme, and my son had a history of tick bites 6 months prior to his symptoms starting. Band 31 has some cross-reactivity with viruses and IGeneX has methods of dealing with that, but they also have a 31 kDa epitope test that can confirm that the positive reaction at band 31 is due to borrelia and not some type of virus. My son was also positive on that test.

 

Good luck!

 

Can you help explain to me the relevance of the IgM 31 kDa Epitope Test. My daughter's came back negative. On the IgM Western Blot, she was positive for 31,41,58; double positive for 83-93 and Indeterminate on bands 34,39. On the IgG Blot, she was positive 41,58 and Indeterminate on 83-93. Co-infections were negative. All testing done with IgeneX. Thanks!

[JTs-Mom]

We did the 6050 (Complete Lyme Panel... which includes the IGM and IGG western blots, PCR, and IFA tests), 5090 (Complete Coinfection Panel... tests for Babesia and Bartonella), 488 and 489 (31 kDA epitope test for IGM and IGG). 488 and 489 are only done after the western blot is performed.

 

There isn't a "CDC Western Blot" per se, they (the CDC) just use different criteria than IGeneX to interpret a western blot test as positive or negative for Lyme. Most labs that perform a Lyme western blot will only go by the CDC criteria to determine whether the test is positive or negative. The CDC developed their criteria for reporting purposes only. (Positive cases of Lyme disease must be reported to the CDC by medical practitioners.) The CDC criteria is very restrictive. IGeneX has developed their own criteria for determining a positive or negative western blot. They will show you on the test results whether your test is positive/negative according to CDC criteria and also positive/negative according to their own criteria. This article explains why the CDC criteria is problematic. http://www.lymenet.de/labtests/brenner.htm

 

My son's western blot was done by IGeneX and he tested positive on the IGG for bands 30, 31, 34, 41, and 58. He was "IND" (which is indeterminate) on band 39. The CDC requires 5 bands on the IGG for a positive result, but they require a different 5 bands than my son has. The interesting thing is that some of my son's positive bands are MORE specific for Lyme than the bands that the CDC includes in their criteria. So, his western blot test result from IGeneX showed that he was negative by CDC criteria, but positive by IGeneX's criteria.

 

I sought out a Lyme-Literate MD (LLMD) and he diagnosed my son with neuroborreliosis (neuro Lyme).

 

This board is actually what led me down the path of investigating Lyme Disease. Someone here posted an article about Lyme Disease presenting as Tourette's. It never occurred to me that my son's motor tics could be due to Lyme, even though he had tick bites 6 months prior to symptom onset. I have since found a number of references to Lyme causing motor tics and many other symptoms similar to PANDAS and Tourette's. I have also talked with other parents (on Lyme forums) whose kids have motor tics, OCD, ADD, etc. from Lyme. It's a horrid disease.

 

 

Which tests did you do through IGenex? Was it one of the packaged tests? When you say he was positive for bands 31 & 34, was that the CDC Western Blot or through IGenex? Did he have the 41 positive band through the CDC WB?

 

 

 

I agree with Elizabeth that your son should get the IGeneX western blots if you live in an endemic area, he has a history of a tick bite, or you just want a more conclusive test. My son was CDC negative, but he had positive bands 31 and 34, plus 3 others. (He was positive by IGeneX criteria.) As Elizabeth has mentioned, 31 and 34 are very indicative of Lyme, and my son had a history of tick bites 6 months prior to his symptoms starting. Band 31 has some cross-reactivity with viruses and IGeneX has methods of dealing with that, but they also have a 31 kDa epitope test that can confirm that the positive reaction at band 31 is due to borrelia and not some type of virus. My son was also positive on that test.

 

Good luck!

[lfran]

Thanks for the info.

 

How long does it take to get the Western blot results back from Igenex? Also, will they send them to the family, or just to the doctor?

 

Thanks!

 

 

We did the 6050 (Complete Lyme Panel... which includes the IGM and IGG western blots, PCR, and IFA tests), 5090 (Complete Coinfection Panel... tests for Babesia and Bartonella), 488 and 489 (31 kDA epitope test for IGM and IGG). 488 and 489 are only done after the western blot is performed.

 

There isn't a "CDC Western Blot" per se, they (the CDC) just use different criteria than IGeneX to interpret a western blot test as positive or negative for Lyme. Most labs that perform a Lyme western blot will only go by the CDC criteria to determine whether the test is positive or negative. The CDC developed their criteria for reporting purposes only. (Positive cases of Lyme disease must be reported to the CDC by medical practitioners.) The CDC criteria is very restrictive. IGeneX has developed their own criteria for determining a positive or negative western blot. They will show you on the test results whether your test is positive/negative according to CDC criteria and also positive/negative according to their own criteria. This article explains why the CDC criteria is problematic. http://www.lymenet.de/labtests/brenner.htm

 

My son's western blot was done by IGeneX and he tested positive on the IGG for bands 30, 31, 34, 41, and 58. He was "IND" (which is indeterminate) on band 39. The CDC requires 5 bands on the IGG for a positive result, but they require a different 5 bands than my son has. The interesting thing is that some of my son's positive bands are MORE specific for Lyme than the bands that the CDC includes in their criteria. So, his western blot test result from IGeneX showed that he was negative by CDC criteria, but positive by IGeneX's criteria.

 

I sought out a Lyme-Literate MD (LLMD) and he diagnosed my son with neuroborreliosis (neuro Lyme).

 

This board is actually what led me down the path of investigating Lyme Disease. Someone here posted an article about Lyme Disease presenting as Tourette's. It never occurred to me that my son's motor tics could be due to Lyme, even though he had tick bites 6 months prior to symptom onset. I have since found a number of references to Lyme causing motor tics and many other symptoms similar to PANDAS and Tourette's. I have also talked with other parents (on Lyme forums) whose kids have motor tics, OCD, ADD, etc. from Lyme. It's a horrid disease.

 

 

Which tests did you do through IGenex? Was it one of the packaged tests? When you say he was positive for bands 31 & 34, was that the CDC Western Blot or through IGenex? Did he have the 41 positive band through the CDC WB?

 

 

 

I agree with Elizabeth that your son should get the IGeneX western blots if you live in an endemic area, he has a history of a tick bite, or you just want a more conclusive test. My son was CDC negative, but he had positive bands 31 and 34, plus 3 others. (He was positive by IGeneX criteria.) As Elizabeth has mentioned, 31 and 34 are very indicative of Lyme, and my son had a history of tick bites 6 months prior to his symptoms starting. Band 31 has some cross-reactivity with viruses and IGeneX has methods of dealing with that, but they also have a 31 kDa epitope test that can confirm that the positive reaction at band 31 is due to borrelia and not some type of virus. My son was also positive on that test.

 

Good luck!

[justinekno]

They will only send results to the ordering dr. IGenex told me it takes about 2 weeks for the results.

 

Thanks for the info.

 

How long does it take to get the Western blot results back from Igenex? Also, will they send them to the family, or just to the doctor?

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

[Hitman3161]

I've always wondered what a reactive +41 band (IgG) meant. In my case, all other bands with exception to undetermined ospC (IgG) came back negative. I'm aware that +41 (IgG) represents previous exposure to spirochete bacteria of which there are only 3 known forms. But if you rule out lyme and clymidia, with +41 being common a feature of people symptomatic for PANS, what could it be? 

My neuro-cognitive symptoms are quite severe and clinically most resemble lyme. I've been given a preliminary diagnosis of PANDAS by Dr K. Although, I have yet to find any clear laboratorical markers which is a little disconcerting to say the least.

[bws1565]

Wondering about band 41 as well.  I think every single person I know, who tested for Lyme was positive for band 41.  Is that indicative of lyme?  It cannot be that everybody is positive!

 

[Hitman3161]

1 hour ago, bws1565 said:

Wondering about band 41 as well.  I think every single person I know, who tested for Lyme was positive for band 41.  Is that indicative of lyme?  It cannot be that everybody is positive!

 

Hi Bws1565,

I think band 41 commonly appears as a non-specific marker for lyme, as it can cross-react (or is present) with other spirochetes (coiled shaped bacteria). Reactivity to band 41 alone would not be enough to indicate lyme, it would only signify the presence of the protein marker responsible for forming the mobilised portion of any spirochete i.e its tail. 

This is my understanding at the very  least. Although, it obviously shows something's there. I've heard stories of people not testing positive for other bands until abx treatment has started - in the case of an eventual Lyme diagnosis. 

I think there are quite a few asymptomatic carriers of band 41 out there in the general population, so it's not deemed as important as other bands. Having said that, it would still be interesting to know what that band is a part of exactly?

 

 

 

 

Edited June 23, 2017 by Hitman3161