night terrors and muscle twitching at night

[Toms_Mom]

My 7 year old son has occasional night terrors where he wakes up and starts wandering around the house. He seems terrified sometimes and sometimes not so much. He seems awake, but is really asleep. He never remembers these episodes and it is hard to calm him down- he doesn't want to be held and it takes a few minutes to get him calm enough to sleep. Does anyone know what causes these or how to maybe prevent them?

 

His other issue which concerns me more is his muscles sometimes twitch at night. I don't notice this of course until he is sleeping with me and then I get all worried about it. The other night he was in my bed and he had his foot up against me and I felt his foot twitching and then noticed he was sort of having muscle spasms in other places. These are not places he has tics- do not seem related. But it seems like this could be something to do with his nervous system of course. His tics are hardly noticable right now and when I noticed these spasms last summer he was having lots of tics so I sort of thought with the tics calming down that these spasms would as well. Does anyone know what causes these or if it is a symptom of some other underlying problem? I have been so worried about these spasms. Also, I have spasms too, but these did not start until recently with me and I kind of felt like it was my nerves sort of releasing all of the tension I have felt these past months worrying over my son. Any advice with this would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks, Mary

[JennyC]

Mary

 

I wish I had some advice to give you, I just want to let you know that you arent alone. My daughter is almost 3 and has a tic disorder and she also suffers from nightmares or night terrors as some call them. She doesnt get up and walk around but she will sit up in her bed with her eyes wide open, sometimes pointing and she will just cry this terrified cry and nothing consoles her.

 

Maybe the muscle twitches are his body trying to act out whatever he is dreaming when he is sleeping?

 

I really wish I could be of help but I wanted to write to you because I know it feels frustrating when you are waiting for an answer and no one responds right away, sometimes it feels good just to have your situation and fears acknowledged. I hope someone else can chime in with some solid advice or information. In the meantime, we are here for you.

 

Jenny

[kkver]

After reading this t just hit me that even my son is not very sound sleeper. He will get up once a while at night. I recall i used eposm salt bath few days back before going to bed and he slept like a baby. May be you want to try that . 2 cups of epsom salt in bath and let him soak for 30 minutes before going to bed. this will calm his body and muscles.

[Chemar]

I so agree on the calming effect of the epsom on my son (tho a reminder that based on recent discussions here, some people with sulfate/sulphur etc sensitivity may not do well on epsom (magnesium sulfate) soaks

 

the only times he has had night terrors was when his OCD was in major waxing, and then again when a doctor put him on cimetidene (tagamet) for his Crohn's disease. those were the worst as he would be semi awake in total fear and paranoia and seemed to be almost halucinating. as soon as we stopped the tagamet, those terrors stopped too

[Caryn]

Mary,

Have you reintroduced gluten to your son's diet?

Muscle twitching is common for the gluten intolerant/celiac when they are ingesting gluten in the diet. Is this symptom constant or does it wane while off the gluten? Gluten has been scientifically proven to cause ataxia in many cases. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that the many claims of gluten-free celiacs is true. They often claim that once the gluten is removed from the diet the muscle twitches and cramps go away. This is a highly talked about issue on GF forums.

Also, for us, the sleep improved TREMENDOUSLY for Tigger. (averages 2 more hours a night now GF-- unless his brothers are loud and wake him up).

 

Caryn

[Pamela Kay]

My kids have never had night terrors but I thought I would add this comment as my friends son has had them. She found that his night terrors went mostly away when she did not have his feet covered with socks or footed pajamas at night. Also when he did have night terrors she would run his feet under cold water. She got these ideas somewhere on the internet. I hope this helps someone.

[Toms_Mom]

Thanks so much for all of your responses!

 

Chemar or kkver- how do I know if my son has a possible sulfate sensitivity? We have done the epsom salt baths in the past because I think they help with his constipation which seems to be under control now.

 

Caryn- we have reintroduced gluten in the diet with digestive enzymes. I don't know if the muscle spasms went away during the time we were gluten free because I had sort of forgot about the spasms until recently when he climbed in my bed for a couple of nights. I have been reading your posts about reactions to gluten and he seems to have none of the symptoms you have described. His behavior at school and home is very good and he seems healthy. (One thing, however, I remember you talking about was celiac disease is common among the Irish. My side of the family is Irish - my husband is German.)

 

Pamela Kay - my son does not wear socks to bed- I will try the cold water over his feet idea though!

 

Thanks for your kind words Jenny C- My sister said her daughter had these night terrors when she was a little girl and she never really knew what to do about them. Her daughter has no health issues or tic disorder so I think this is more common than we think and is not necessarily related to TS or tics.

[Chemar]

Thanks so much for all of your responses!

 

Chemar or kkver- how do I know if my son has a possible sulfate sensitivity? We have done the epsom salt baths in the past because I think they help with his constipation which seems to be under control now.

 

if you havent noticed an increase in tics or other unwanted reactions in the past then it would not seem it is a problem for your child. I had not heard of some having increased tics with epsom till that recent discussion, as for my son an epsom salts soak is a major relaxant of his tics, chron's spasms, and overall tension. He really benefits from those soaks and it helps him sleep really well too.

I will go take a peek to see if I can find that other thread and will add it here

 

edited in: found it!

http://www.latitudes.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=2879

[kkver]

I saw increace in tics for my kid when i used epsom salt bath but he did sleep very well those nights as i kept close eye on him those nights. I read some posts which indicated it might be reaction to sulpher in epsom salt. I did some research on it and is kinda rare condition . You had used those in past and if you had not seen increase in tics it might be good idea to try it out.

[kim]

Tom's Mom

 

Just wanted to let you know that my oldest son had that type of problem too.

 

He had a hard time falling asleep, napping, etc from a very young age. He also used to get out of his bed and end up at the end of our bed or on the floor next to it. Boy, time flies and i've forgotten a lot, as far as at what age it was the worst but he used to get up, like you're describing. He would repeat "I'm sorry," over and over. He seemed so distraught, it was heart breaking. To this day, i think that's why i'm up 1/2 of the night. I just got used to being "on call." He never remembered the episodes either.

 

It did pass. He does still occasionally wake up at nite and do something odd, like take the light bulb out of a lamp near his bed. He'll laugh in the morning about something that he must done in his room during the night. Most of the time, he just moves something.

 

I wish I could remember if there was anything in particular that we started doing when that improved.

[Caryn]

I'm not sure what condition his symptoms best mimic, but I thought I would post a summary of an article I found. You put me thinking because my dh has had jerks like this for years and they went away when he went gluten free (well, to be more accurate I should say gluten occasional LOL). He was more like PLMD than RLS.

 

 

"Restless leg syndrome has four major characteristics: an urge to move, usually due to uncomfortable sensations (of creeping, crawling, pins and needles, tingling, pulling, twitching, tearing, throbbing, prickling or aching) occurring primarily in the legs, particularly the calves; motor restlessness, expressed as activity, that relieves the urge to move; worsening of symptoms by relaxation, with symptoms increasing during long periods of sitting; variability over the course of the day-night cycle, with symptoms worse in the evening and early in the night. Another common feature is having a co-existing periodic limb movement disorder, with 80-90 percent of patients with restless leg syndrome also having periodic limb movement disorder.

 

About 15 percent of the adults in North American and Europe have restless leg syndrome, and in these populations there is a high incidence of familial cases, suggesting a genetic tendency. Symptoms usually appear at about age 45 although they may occur in childhood. Surgery of any kind, as well as back injuries, may precipitate or worsen restless leg syndrome. Medications known to worsen symptoms include anti-nausea drugs, caffeine antihistamines, antidepressants, antipsychotic drugs, and anti-seizure medications. Patients with gluten sensitivity enteropathy may notice a worsening of symptoms when gluten is ingested.

 

Because restless leg syndrome is associated with low iron levels, all patients with symptoms should have iron and ferritin levels. Iron supplements are often used as a treatment for restless leg syndrome. In familial cases, folic acid supplements, vitamin E and ginkgo biloba are reported to improve symptoms. Other treatments include dopamine agonists such as ropinirole, levodopa, and pramipexole, opiates, benzodiazepines and gabapentin (Neurontin), compression stockings, mild exercise, heating pads, and yoga.

Periodic Limb Movement Disorder

 

Periodic limb movement disorder is a condition characterized by slow repetitive stereotyped "jerks" of flexions of the affected body part, usually the legs and arms, that occur during sleep and sometimes while awake. Periodic limb movement disorder usually occurs in association with restless leg syndrome, and it is detected by monitoring patients during sleep studies. Treatment is the same as that used for restless leg syndrome."

 

The think that is concerning is that it usually coincides with the onset of an autoimmune disorder. Something to think about. My fil also has jerking limbs when he sleeps.

http://autoimmunedisease.suite101.com/arti...disorders_in_ad

[kallik]

My son also has small jerks or really twitches while sleeping along with restless legs while trying to settle down at night. I don't know what to do for it. I felt we also saw a small increase in tics the day after giving him an epsom salt bath for the first time! He also has to get up and urinate frequently at night, and whenever he sits for any length of time. I have no idea why. It's frustrating!

[Toms_Mom]

Caryn,

Thanks so much for that info!- I was actually thinking they were muscle spasms, but now realize he has the periodic limb movement disorder. The interesting thing is my husband has this PLMD as well - He's had it for as long as I can remember- our entire marriage which has been 17 years! I just never thought or worried about it with him. LOL

 

I have RLS- it comes and goes - my sisters and my mother have it as well - we find that if we limit our caffeine to the earlier part of the day it really helps to stop the RLS. I was also just diagnosed with iron defieciency anemia and RLS can be caused by this as well.

 

I am now wondering if this is a heriditary disorder?

 

The PLMD does not effect his sleep- he sleeps soundly about 11 hours a night and the only thing that disturbs his sleep is the night terrors about once a week and like Kim said I always feel like I am on call - I sleep like half awake knowing he could get up and start running around the house and of course worried he could hurt himself. Of course my husband sleeps like a rock.

 

Also, when I just googled the PLMD in children a few articles said it is often a symptom of children with ADHD and when you take care of the underlying neurological disorder it often disappears. My son does not have ADHD, but of course tic disorders are considered to be on the same spectrum. I often wonder though about my sons constant talking. I know this is an ADD symptom. I once asked his teacher if she thought he could have ADD and she laughed in my face. My son is probably the quietest and best behaved child in her class- she actually has him take the other little boys to the bathroom because she said he's the only one she can trust. However, when he comes home he can not stop talking- it exhausts me and he gets bored very easily and wants me or his sisters to entertain him constantly. Thats why I sometimes wonder if he might have a touch of it - or is it you either have it or you don't?! Anyway, thanks for listening.

 

Mary

[Calicat]

I have had "sleep stuff" going on for most of my life. As a child, I would get up and do odd things sometimes, like run up the stairs, take my hamster out of its cage, etc. At some point, I'd wake up and think, "What in the world am I doing?!"

 

I suffered from nightmares most of my life, from childhood up until recently. Really bad and frequent nightmares. Also, what I call "night visions"... sort of like hallucinations. Basically, I wake up in the middle of the night, or rather THINK I've woken up, and I see things in my room. It is not like a dream because my eyes are open and I can see my whole room. I see things like wine glasses dancing across the ceiling, objects moving up the wall, and there's this orange spider (sometimes black) that "visits" me quite often, and I'm absolutely convinced it's really there on my wall, and then it runs to hide behind a picture or something.

 

I have had restless leg syndrome here and there since I've been a teenager, I think. It was especially bad during pregnancy. Also bad if I'm overtired and stay up late at the computer or on the couch.

 

A few years ago, I started having trouble falling asleep, and then I'd wake repeatedly in the night for sometimes a minute, sometimes much longer.

 

I am the sleep issue poster child, aren't I??!

 

As for my six-year-old, we noticed from the start that she was not easy to get to sleep. She'd be soooo tired, but I'd still have to bounce her for half an hour to get her to drop off. Mind you, once asleep she did pretty good.

 

She did have some night terrors.

 

Also, by the time she was 3 or 4, she had trouble falling asleep and would lay there for sometimes an hour. (Meanwhile, my friends are like, "Oh, mine goes to sleep 2 minutes after her head touches the pillow." ARRRRGGGH.

 

Anyway, I know I've said this before, but the ONE thing that reduced all of both of our symptoms to a minimum... is Magnesium. Specifically, Kids Calm. She falls asleep normally, my RLS doesn't bother me, I rarely have nightmares or night visions, I stay asleep better... Honestly, if we forget to take it for some reason, I notice poor sleeps for both of us.

 

I find it interesting that this has helped us so much, and yet I've never seen it recommended in a sleep or RLS article.

 

I do want to say, though, that we have been on it for a number of months, and it seems *slightly* less effective than before for me. I'm curious if this means I need to up the dose.

 

Hope this helps for someone.

Calicat

[Toms_Mom]

Calicat

Funny you bring up this "night vision" thing- I have had the exact same thing happen to me with waking up in the middle of the night and thinking I see this big spider(yuck!) climbing up the wall and I am convinced it is there but its not! It doesn't happen often, but it sure is scary! My 12 year old daughter does this sometimes too- she gets really scared and seems awake but she's not.

 

As far as the kids calm we did that last summer and it seemed to really calm him down. I was thinking about starting it again but- last week I had a kidney stone- if you're not familiar with them they are very painful to pass and I found out these tend to run in my family. I read on a post somewhere here that you shouldn't take the kids calm if kidney stones run in your family. ( I had been using the natural calm occasionally) The nurses in the hospital told me that children can get them too and mentioned a 12 and 16 year old they had seen recently with a kidney stone. Now my son is only 7 but still... Does anyone know why this was said in the past on this board because I would really like to use the kids calm again but am worried about it? I guess I can always just stick with the epsom salt baths.