Mealtime tics

[Calicat]

Hi again,

Well, it's been a very good week overall since I started trying recommendations from here (Mag, multi, enzymes, additive-free diet). For the most part, I'd say tics are down significantly, in both frequency and intensity. However, I am noticing a definite pattern emerging. (OT -- speaking of emerging, we had our first beautiful moth emerge from his cocoon Saturday evening... a Virginia Ctenucha, a little fuzzy yellow caterpillar that becomes a very striking black-winged moth with a dark yellow head and deep blue body. Yay!)

 

Anyway, tangental me, back to the topic at hand. This is the pattern: every time she eats a meal, the tics increase probably 5 minutes into the meal and stay elevated for maybe 1/2 hour after the meal. Then everything goes back to normal. This morning, she didn't seem hungry so I let her not eat until 11:30, and her morning was almost tic-free.

 

So, anybody have ideas on what this could mean? If it is some kind of food intolerance, why is it showing up so quickly? Leaky gut? Any other ideas?

 

Thanks,

Calicat

[Cum Passus]

Calicat,

 

I don't have any theorys about the food, but my son for a while did some odd tics at mealtime. Then he just stopped for a couple days, then he would start it up again. I was always trying to find out why he did this.

 

He would do this at other times too, not just at mealtimes. When my mom would come over he would have a really bad vocal ticcing spell. Also when we would pray as a family he would go nuts with the vocals. They would stop once we were done with the prayers. (so strange) I really never put my finger on it, but thought maybe he was doing this because of things exciting him. Not sure about the prayers I know that does not excite him.

 

At this time he does not do this anymore. (thankfully)

 

My husband said he saw on TV a story about food exciting a neurotransmitter in the brain of a person who loved to eat. I thought for a while maybe that was causing the increase in tics. After all he is 13 and food seems to be all that is on his mine.

 

The only thing we have seen our son go nuts over was a B complex and fish oil. Tics were right away with the fish oil, and lasted a few hours. The B complex it was the next day, and really really bad.

 

Hope someone else will have some input I would like to hear more about this.

 

C.P.

[powerofprayer]

I dunno if this is what you're wondering about CP, but my own vocal tic gets much worse when I'm on the phone.............but only if I'm talking to my own family! What the......? Does that seem off the wall or what? I mean I love talking to my folks but I wouldn't say i get EXCITED!

[Chemar]

Calicat, I know that certain foods have different levels of the various amino acids (eg meats and taurine) and some do have an effect on neurotransmitters, so I dont know if that may be coming into play here.

 

and then, it may well be something metabolic that happens for him as he begins to eat and digest

 

I hope you are keeping a journal on what he eats and how the tics manifest.

that may also give you clues into possible food sensitivities

[patty]

Calicat,

 

When my son first starting ticcing, one of his triggers is while he is eating. His other triggers are TV and reading to him. Most days, his tics are few, infrequent and mild that people don't even notice but me. But if he is having slightly more symptoms that day, he may have slightly more tics during one of the above triggers that i mentioned.

 

My son loves TV, eating & read to, so i suspect the excitment possibly casue tics. When my son is having a good day, none of the triggers cause any tics.

 

Patty

[John]

Calicat,

 

I don't have any theorys about the food, but my son for a while did some odd tics at mealtime. Then he just stopped for a couple days, then he would start it up again. I was always trying to find out why he did this.

 

He would do this at other times too, not just at mealtimes. When my mom would come over he would have a really bad vocal ticcing spell. Also when we would pray as a family he would go nuts with the vocals. They would stop once we were done with the prayers. (so strange) I really never put my finger on it, but thought maybe he was doing this because of things exciting him. Not sure about the prayers I know that does not excite him.

 

At this time he does not do this anymore. (thankfully)

 

My husband said he saw on TV a story about food exciting a neurotransmitter in the brain of a person who loved to eat. I thought for a while maybe that was causing the increase in tics. After all he is 13 and food seems to be all that is on his mine.

 

The only thing we have seen our son go nuts over was a B complex and fish oil. Tics were right away with the fish oil, and lasted a few hours. The B complex it was the next day, and really really bad.

 

Hope someone else will have some input I would like to hear more about this.

 

C.P.

 

Hi CP

 

I saw a programme not so long ago about a guy who had very bad vocals with his TS (he also swore a lot) The way he explained it was that the more he had to be quite the more the urge to shout came about until he did it.

 

It was a taboo type thing the same as if he was in church etc, he was compelled to shout because he new he should be quite.

 

Hope that info helps.

[Chemar]

I saw a programme not so long ago about a guy who had very bad vocals with his TS (he also swore a lot) The way he explained it was that the more he had to be quite the more the urge to shout came about until he did it.

 

It was a taboo type thing the same as if he was in church etc, he was compelled to shout because he new he should be quite.

 

Hope that info helps.

 

Hi John

yes, that is a well known issue for people with TS

 

see, most of the time they are not focussed on their own tics...just as we are not focussed on blinking for example.

 

however, as soon as one draws their attention to their tics, or if they try to suppress them, then the urge to tic seems to grow even stronger.

 

that is one of the reasons that I urge parents to try not to let their kids know that they are observing their tics, and also NEVER NEVER NEVER to tell them to "stop that!"............those are major tic triggers!

[Cum Passus]

John,

 

Thanks, now that you say that I would notice he would try hard to hold his tics while we prayed. Well he had his head in his hand and that is what it looked like.

So I think you are right maybe he didn't like the feeling that he was causing the prayers to be not the same as they were in the past.

 

And Chemar you may be correct. When I was at my lowest I could not eat and lost 20 pounds in 4 months.

My son has puppy dog eyes and he would look at me during dinner with those eyes and say, "Mama please eat." I tried so hard to stuff food in my mouth, so he would not think it was he who was causing me not to eat.

That was very hard to do in front of a 12/13 year old, he was just too smart.

 

C.P.

[patty]

I agree about the not drawing tics to their attention, as the awareness of suppression can cause anxiety, therefore more tics.

 

That is the reason why i never associate my son's tics may be due to his food sensitivities. Since my son has always had allergies, i use that as an excuse to avoid what i believe may be tic triggers. That goes the same for TV.

 

My son had asthma since birth, so even before the tics, i always emphasised to my son certain food is not good for him, so he is always very aware of what he puts into his mouth (in restrospect, i think i told him less). When he first had his sudden acute onset of tics, eating time was a big trigger. I believe it has alot to do with food restriction. Now, i emphasis, we as a family prefer to eat healthy to take some of the pressure off my son. I think the anxiety/tic factor heightens his anxiety on things that he is concern about.

 

Patty

[quan_daniel]

My belief is anxiety.

When a person is seated in a table(as the case with my son), there are 4 sets of eyes looking at you.

His grandma would always stare at him when he used to tic.

Plus when you are sitting there are no where to run to.

keeping still for a normal kid is hard to do imagine a kid with tics.

[Calicat]

Well, I knew I'd get lots of good ideas about this from all of you. Thanks for responding.

 

I think I can rule out the idea of anxiety/nervousness about ticcing or being watched, mostly because my daughter has no idea that she tics. She has two main tics--throat clearing and sniffing (and a tiny bit of blinking, teeth grinding... I think that's it). So, to her, she's just suffering allergies or a cold or something like that. It's only been going on for a month or so, and I've never used the word tic with her, nor tried to explain it that way. She wouldn't find it nerve-wracking to clear her throat or sniff, as she hears me sniff and sneeze plenty when I'm dealing with my own (classical) allergies. And I never bug her about it. On top of that, much of the time it is just the two of us at the table, so there aren't even those extra pairs of eyes. Lastly, she's only 5 years old, so she's not tuned into that kind of stuff. I also don't require her to be quiet at the table. (But I can totally see how anxiety would play a role if she knew she was ticcing.)

 

Patty, that's a great idea to use the excuse of allergies for avoiding certain foods/situations. I'm going to do that with my daughter as well.

 

As for excitement... now, if I was serving a pecan log with a side of marzipan for supper, and a plate of candy for dessert, I could see her getting excited. Unfortuneately, meals are quite healthy and quite boring. I, myself, am a passionate food lover. My daughter is not quite there yet. She does, however, love vegetables, thank goodness!

 

The amino acids having an effect on neurotransmitters, and the metabolism playing a role... those might fit the bill in this case. It certainly is something that has an effect quickly.

 

Powerofprayer, I have to say you made me laugh out loud! Maybe what you experience is similar for my daughter, and it's an association thing.

 

C.P., it seems you've experienced an "assosiation" type of thing, too. And when you mention your son going nuts with the fish oil right away, that seems similar (kind of like my daughter's experience with rhubarb, which was VERY bad and very quick).

 

The one thing no one mentioned is this idea of "leaky gut" that I've been doing some reading on. Is it possible that food is getting into the blood stream before being properly digested? Could it happen within 5 or 10 minutes? Or could neurotransmitters be affected by the smell of food, or the action of chewing, or some other thing? I know I'm jabbing in the dark here, but just throwing ideas out helps me a lot.

 

Thanks again for your thoughts, and I'm certainly open to hearing more!

Calicat

p.s. Today's been an extremely mild day for my daughter!! (I probably shouldn't jinx it like that )

[Andy]

Well, I knew I'd get lots of good ideas about this from all of you. Thanks for responding.

 

I think I can rule out the idea of anxiety/nervousness about ticcing or being watched, mostly because my daughter has no idea that she tics. She has two main tics--throat clearing and sniffing (and a tiny bit of blinking, teeth grinding... I think that's it). So, to her, she's just suffering allergies or a cold or something like that. It's only been going on for a month or so, and I've never used the word tic with her, nor tried to explain it that way. She wouldn't find it nerve-wracking to clear her throat or sniff, as she hears me sniff and sneeze plenty when I'm dealing with my own (classical) allergies. And I never bug her about it. On top of that, much of the time it is just the two of us at the table, so there aren't even those extra pairs of eyes. Lastly, she's only 5 years old, so she's not tuned into that kind of stuff. I also don't require her to be quiet at the table. (But I can totally see how anxiety would play a role if she knew she was ticcing.)

 

Patty, that's a great idea to use the excuse of allergies for avoiding certain foods/situations. I'm going to do that with my daughter as well.

 

As for excitement... now, if I was serving a pecan log with a side of marzipan for supper, and a plate of candy for dessert, I could see her getting excited. Unfortuneately, meals are quite healthy and quite boring. I, myself, am a passionate food lover. My daughter is not quite there yet. She does, however, love vegetables, thank goodness!

 

The amino acids having an effect on neurotransmitters, and the metabolism playing a role... those might fit the bill in this case. It certainly is something that has an effect quickly.

 

Powerofprayer, I have to say you made me laugh out loud! Maybe what you experience is similar for my daughter, and it's an association thing.

 

C.P., it seems you've experienced an "assosiation" type of thing, too. And when you mention your son going nuts with the fish oil right away, that seems similar (kind of like my daughter's experience with rhubarb, which was VERY bad and very quick).

 

The one thing no one mentioned is this idea of "leaky gut" that I've been doing some reading on. Is it possible that food is getting into the blood stream before being properly digested? Could it happen within 5 or 10 minutes? Or could neurotransmitters be affected by the smell of food, or the action of chewing, or some other thing? I know I'm jabbing in the dark here, but just throwing ideas out helps me a lot.

 

Thanks again for your thoughts, and I'm certainly open to hearing more!

Calicat

p.s. Today's been an extremely mild day for my daughter!! (I probably shouldn't jinx it like that )

 

 

Our son will not eat in school. Even when he was doing great and no tics were really showing to the untrained eye, he would tic while eating. Now that he is not doing as well, we had a change in his treatment plan, but still better then before his ticing is off the charts while eating. We tend to look at his gut for the reason for this. It may be that the food is not being completely digested, it may be that food is leaking into his body, it may be and most likely since it happens a few minutes into eatting that the yeast inside of his body is releasing body waste as it is feeding on what he is feeding on. We have a restricted diet so it is not delayed food allergies and he is not showing the other issues that he had before we placed him on the restricted diet.