Hormonal changes or food changes?

[Spartan32]

I recently started a bulk about a month ago (Trying to gain weight. I want to gain about 20 or so pounds of muscle). I went to bodybuilding.com and got a diet. I am taking in about 3500 calories a day now. I am a skinny guy (6 foot, 160 pounds) and have always had trouble gaining weight even with weight training. In addition to the foods in the diet, I am having weight gainer and whey protein. I have also added fish oil because I heard that is good for your skin. (My acne has also increased dramatically). Well now my tics are worse than ever. I can not stop ticcing. I am gaining strength and lean muscle mass and look better than ever, but my tics are out of control This just proves to me that diet has a huge impact on tics, whether it be a sensitivity to them or the hormonal changes that they cause. I was wondering if anyone knew of any evidence that gaining weight can increase tics, or is it maybe the food chocies that I am eating? I have eaten all of these foods before (even the weight gainer and whey protein) but they did not cause this reaction. My testosterone levels are probably are there highest now also which asks more questions.

 

Thanks

[Chemar]

Hi Spartan

 

yes, testosterone increase is believed to be a tic trigger

 

Dont know if you ever saw this article I posted once...but if you scroll down the article you will see the info on androgens there

 

http://www.latitudes.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=1673

 

also, if you are new to fish oil, that could be a culprit too. some do fine on fish but we have many reports here and elsewhere of some people who have TS reacting to fish oil with more tics.

 

you could try substituting flaxseed oil for a while and see if things improve

[kim]

Spartan,

 

Is the form of whey that you're using isolate or concentrate? Have you ever used as much whey, for as long of a period of time? Is this the same product that you used before?

 

I have some info that might be helpful, or just save you some time if you think it might be useful.

 

Maybe you are well acquainted with the issues surrounding whey (glutamate), if not, that would be the first thing that I would really look at. The 2nd would probably be your ability to digest protein and fats period. Are there any foods that you are particularly drawn to, or have a real adversion to?

 

Zinc may be something that you want to have checked. It may be involved with the increase in acne also.

 

(all of this is in addition to what Chemar already posted of course! )

 

Kim

[Spartan32]

Chemar, thanks for that article. Very interesting and I was not aware of androgens and cortisol. I was actually taking 10 fish oil pills a day, spread over a couple servings a day, each at 1000mg. This equaled about 3 g of EPA and DHA's combined. I read on the acne.org forum that dose level has been known to help many people.

 

 

Spartan,

 

Is the form of whey that you're using isolate or concentrate? Have you ever used as much whey, for as long of a period of time? Is this the same product that you used before?

 

I have some info that might be helpful, or just save you some time if you think it might be useful.

 

Maybe you are well acquainted with the issues surrounding whey (glutamate), if not, that would be the first thing that I would really look at. The 2nd would probably be your ability to digest protein and fats period. Are there any foods that you are particularly drawn to, or have a real adversion to?

 

Zinc may be something that you want to have checked. It may be involved with the increase in acne also.

 

(all of this is in addition to what Chemar already posted of course! )

 

Kim

 

For the supplements, I am using Optimum 100% Whey Protein and Universal real gains.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/opt/whey.html

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/univ/real.html

 

The whey says it is mainly an isolate, but does contain whey concentrate. I have used it before, and my tics were not that bad. I also used the weight gainer before, but in more of an isolated state. I weight trained before, but I did not really go to hard and work to fatigue. It seems as though when I upped my calorie intake, protein intake, weight gainer intake, started fish oil, and started lifting to fatigue, that my tics and acne blew up. It is a catch-22 because I can either gain the weight and strength that I want but have acne and tics, or give up the lifting and have mild to tics and acne.

 

Kim, I am drawn to a lot of foods. Even though I have a very fast metabolism, I am always hungry. I crave peanut butter and milk which I try and cut back on. Also a lot of fried foods and fast food items.

 

In terms of zinc, how much would be safe for a 19 yr old, 160-165 lb male? I actually have a zinc bottle called optizinc which contains copper, so that could eliminate any chances of copper deficiancy. They are 30mg pills.

 

Thanks

[faith]

Hi Spartan,

Was wondering if you ever did the food sensitivity tests (Igg) that you asked about? If you think your ticcing is more than usual, my bet is on something you are consuming that is not good for you, so you should experiment adding and subtracting to see if it helps (this includes supplements added and the weight training supps as well).

 

I understand about the weight, my son is a lightweight for his age and I would like to get more calories in him, but alot of those types of foods are not good for him and the tic situation. BUT, weight aside, I think its better to be HEALThY than to weight too little or too much. So just opt for health and the rest will fall into place, I feel.

 

Faith

[kim]

Spartan,

 

Honestly, there are so many things here, that could be causing you problems. Maybe we can just take it one step at a time.

 

Possible problems:

 

Artificial Flavor

 

Maltodextrin...most likely corn derived

 

Sucralose.....Splenda

 

ultra filtered whey concentrate ????? Would have to read the article that I linked to again

 

Real Gains

 

Maltodextrin,

 

ultra filtered whey concentrate, micellar casein,

 

artificial flavors

 

sucralose....splenda

 

I would lose the Real Gains product PRONTO personally. The first ingredient listed is maltodextrin ! Google maltodextrin dangers or maltodextrin + neurotoxins then,

 

start here by reading about Whey protein processing

 

http://www.integratedsupplements.com/intsu...ecrets?p_pid_c=

 

Excerpts

 

In truth, there are not a lot of reasons why a supplement company would use a high quality whey isolate instead of a low quality whey concentrate. The general supplement consumer simply is not discerning enough to tell the difference between the two.

(it looks like this company is trying to make a higher quality product. but is it enough for a neurologically sensitive person?)

 

Proper, low temperature, whey isolate processing produces a product with the lowest amount of denatured proteins, and the highest most balanced ratio of active microfractions.

 

WHEY ISOLATE

 

Any protein supplement that lists whey concentrate anywhere in the ingredients should not be purchased. Period.

 

 

To hydrolyze such a protein and potentially free these amino acids from the native protein structure is flirting with neurological disaster.

 

Even if hydrolyzed whey were not toxic, the beneficial immunomodulating microfractions of whey are compromised with any significant hydrolyzation of the protein, 12 thus sacrificing one of whey's premiere benefits. In other words, the benefit of easier absorption of hydrolyzed whey comes at the expense of the glutathione-immune boosting properties of an intact whey protein.

 

 

In general terms, whey isolate is any whey protein achieving 90%+ protein content. By definition, whey isolate will have more protein, less fat, less lactose, less cholesterol and less denatured proteins than the cheaper whey protein concentrates Of course, the whey isolates will cost more than the cheaper concentrates, but the increase in price can definitely be worth it, if you know which type of isolate to choose. You see, there are two general types of processing which can produce a whey isolate. They are known as ion exchange, and microfiltration.

 

 

this could be a problem too....try searching it

 

gut dysbiosis and rising ammonia levels (high ammonia levels associated with high

protein intake)

 

Sorry, I had to do this in a hurry. I hope this isn't too overwhelming!

[Spartan32]

Hi Spartan,

Was wondering if you ever did the food sensitivity tests (Igg) that you asked about? If you think your ticcing is more than usual, my bet is on something you are consuming that is not good for you, so you should experiment adding and subtracting to see if it helps (this includes supplements added and the weight training supps as well).

 

I understand about the weight, my son is a lightweight for his age and I would like to get more calories in him, but alot of those types of foods are not good for him and the tic situation. BUT, weight aside, I think its better to be HEALThY than to weight too little or too much. So just opt for health and the rest will fall into place, I feel.

 

Faith

 

I actually have not had the ALCAT test done yet. I have been planning on getting it done for a while, but I always put it off. Going to college and working takes a lot of time, so I just never seem to get to it. My tic goes from mild to moderate a lot, so I keep changing my mind about it because I can live with it when it is mild. I will be ordering the test in the coming weeks though.

 

 

Spartan,

 

Honestly, there are so many things here, that could be causing you problems. Maybe we can just take it one step at a time.

 

Possible problems:

 

Artificial Flavor

 

Maltodextrin...most likely corn derived

 

Sucralose.....Splenda

 

ultra filtered whey concentrate ????? Would have to read the article that I linked to again

 

Real Gains

 

Maltodextrin,

 

ultra filtered whey concentrate, micellar casein,

 

artificial flavors

 

sucralose....splenda

 

I would lose the Real Gains product PRONTO personally. The first ingredient listed is maltodextrin ! Google maltodextrin dangers or maltodextrin + neurotoxins then,

 

start here by reading about Whey protein processing

 

http://www.integratedsupplements.com/intsu...ecrets?p_pid_c=

 

Excerpts

 

In truth, there are not a lot of reasons why a supplement company would use a high quality whey isolate instead of a low quality whey concentrate. The general supplement consumer simply is not discerning enough to tell the difference between the two.

(it looks like this company is trying to make a higher quality product. but is it enough for a neurologically sensitive person?)

 

Proper, low temperature, whey isolate processing produces a product with the lowest amount of denatured proteins, and the highest most balanced ratio of active microfractions.

 

WHEY ISOLATE

 

Any protein supplement that lists whey concentrate anywhere in the ingredients should not be purchased. Period.

 

 

To hydrolyze such a protein and potentially free these amino acids from the native protein structure is flirting with neurological disaster.

 

Even if hydrolyzed whey were not toxic, the beneficial immunomodulating microfractions of whey are compromised with any significant hydrolyzation of the protein, 12 thus sacrificing one of whey's premiere benefits. In other words, the benefit of easier absorption of hydrolyzed whey comes at the expense of the glutathione-immune boosting properties of an intact whey protein.

 

 

In general terms, whey isolate is any whey protein achieving 90%+ protein content. By definition, whey isolate will have more protein, less fat, less lactose, less cholesterol and less denatured proteins than the cheaper whey protein concentrates Of course, the whey isolates will cost more than the cheaper concentrates, but the increase in price can definitely be worth it, if you know which type of isolate to choose. You see, there are two general types of processing which can produce a whey isolate. They are known as ion exchange, and microfiltration.

 

 

this could be a problem too....try searching it

 

gut dysbiosis and rising ammonia levels (high ammonia levels associated with high

protein intake)

 

Sorry, I had to do this in a hurry. I hope this isn't too overwhelming!

 

Thanks for that information, I appreciate it a lot. I am actually thinking of ditching both the weight gainer and whey protein. I have a few friends who would buy them so it would not be a total loss. That information just makes to much sense for me to continue taking it with the garbage that is in it.

 

My decision now is whether to continue trying to gain weight. I am not totally clear if the lifting itself is causing the tics (because of reasons stated above such as increased testosterone and androgens) or if the main cause is the food. I could definately get bigger by eating 100 percent quacker oats, natural chicken and ground beef without the use of supplemenet.

 

Another observation that makes sense. My tics began at age 10 and lasted about a year. This was only a vocal tic. At age 14, I started my only tic to this day, which is a head nodding tic. This began when I really got into puberty. Along this same exact time, my acne started to become an issue. I noticed over the years a correlation between how much acne I have and the amount that I tic. It seems as though when I have less acne, I tic less and when I have more acne, I tic more.

[Cum Passus]

SPartan32,

 

I asked my husband at what age did he feel he gained weight. (he started ticcing at age 10 too.) He remembers around age 27. He was always a very thin young man. My son seems to be taking after him in that area too.

 

The only thing he remember that bulked up on him was a neck roll he did in high school. (I guess football players do this) To this day he has a very large neck, he also has a large chest and shoulders. He does workout with weights and jogging. He looks nothing like this in his late teens and early twenties. His brother tells me he boxed so much as a kid his punching bag was in threads when it was finally thrown out. That workout didn't seem to help him bulk up either.

 

C.P.

[faith]

Spartan,

I like your observations. You are beginnng to fit right in with us old folks!

 

Could I ask another question of you? We were recently talking on the board of vaccinations gotten at around age 10 or so and how some believe it to trigger the ticcing. Did you get any vaccines that you know of at that age (10-13)? Could you give us your experience with that? Also, did you ever take antibiotics like tetracycline or any medications prescribed for acne?

 

Thanks

Faith

[faith]

Deleted (double post)

 

Faith

[bmom]

Spartan,

I like your observations. You are beginnng to fit right in with us old folks!

 

Could I ask another question of you? We were recently talking on the board of vaccinations gotten at around age 10 or so and how some believe it to trigger the ticcing. Did you get any vaccines that you know of at that age (10-13)? Could you give us your experience with that? Also, did you ever take antibiotics like tetracycline or any medications prescribed for acne?

 

Thanks

Faith

[bmom]

Sorry, having trouble with reply, but when I tried my son on the EFA oil (flax) he had more tics and his face broke out into a rash which resembled acne-and he is only 8. It may be tied to both.

[kim]

Spartan,

 

I don't know what your insurance status is, but if you can have a Dr. do thyroid function and zinc and copper status test, I think it may be really helpful.

 

It's so hard to recommend a dosage of zinc. Some people require quite high amts. that really should be supervised by a Physician. Optizinc, I believe is a good form of zinc, however, many people with neuro problems seem to be high in copper and low in zinc. You may not be doing yourself a favor by supplementing with copper, at least until you bring zinc levels up, if needed.

 

I would think that 50 mgs of zinc would be safe enough to try short term (remember I have zero medical training here...just read a lot!) to see if it has any effect on the acne issues. Carolyn, might be a better one to advise you on this. Zinc is also needed for protein digestion, helps fight candida, improves wound healing, improves sense of smell and taste, and many other things. Search zinc and acne. You will get a lot of info. One other thing, I don't know how scientific this is, but white spots on the fingernails is said to be an indication of low zinc. My youngest son, who tested low in zinc, had a ton of these. Another thing you might try is a product called zinc drink or zinc (tally?) If I remeber right, these are supposed to have no taste if you are low. You can search those products too.

 

I don't think you mentioned if you are taking any supplements?

 

I am not unhappy to read that you are thinking about stopping the whey products. I had looked at it myself once, because my youngest son doesn't get much protein and I would like to get him off of dairy and peanut butter!

 

One other thing, you might want to cut back on fish oil, and add a little carnitine. It can help with fatty acid transport, and has been said to sometimes help with tics. You can increase fish oil intake if you find it helps. Of course, all of this is best done with testing and Physician guidance, but some things to investigate/think about.

[Spartan32]

Spartan,

I like your observations. You are beginnng to fit right in with us old folks!

 

Could I ask another question of you? We were recently talking on the board of vaccinations gotten at around age 10 or so and how some believe it to trigger the ticcing. Did you get any vaccines that you know of at that age (10-13)? Could you give us your experience with that? Also, did you ever take antibiotics like tetracycline or any medications prescribed for acne?

 

Thanks

Faith

 

Nothing prescribed for acne. My acne has been overall pretty mild. I use a cleanser and benazyl peroxide treatment which seems to clear me up pretty good but I do have flare ups. When I was around 10-13, I know I had the hepatits vaccines and chicken pox ones. I will have to ask my mom if there were anymore, but those are the ones off of the top of my head that I remember. I also remember getting strep throat a few months before the tics flared up again. I got strep throat in December, and the tic came back in April. I say tic, because it has been the same for years.

[Spartan32]

I was just checking out some whey protein isolates and came across this one.

 

http://www.jayrobb.com/cat_proteinWheyUnflav_12.asp

 

Any opinions?