Vaccine Exemptions in CA

[EAMom]

Kim,

I wonder how many pertussis vaccinated nurses/doctors/daycare workers/family members contracted pertussis after vaccination but had no idea they were infected and went on to transmit the infection to vulnerable babies. IMHO this vaccine is potentially dangerous since an infected vaccinated person could unknowingly transmit the bacteria for over 1 mo. If we really cared about protecting "vulnerable individuals" like babies, this vaccine should be banned in adults and older children, not encouraged. At least an unvaccinated person would be more likely to have symptoms and thus know to stay away from babies (or cancer patients) and also get treated with antibiotics.

Edited April 26, 2015 by eamom

[EAMom]

"The new study, published on Monday in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, offers another explanation. Using baboons, the researchers found that recently vaccinated animals continued to carry the infection in their throats. Even though those baboons did not get sick from it, they spread the infection to others that were not vaccinated.

 

When youre newly vaccinated you are an asymptomatic carrier, which is good for you, but not for the population, said Tod J. Merkel, the lead author of the study, who is a researcher in the Office of Vaccines Research and Review in the Food and Drug Administration."

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/26/health/study-finds-vaccinated-baboons-can-still-carry-whooping-cough.html

 

 

I do find it amusing that the pro-mandatory vaxer trolls are all about "protecting the vulnerable" and "community immunity" and "we have to make schools safe for cancer kids" and how anybody that is not fully vaccinted is a risk to others...but when you mention the baboon study all of a sudden they change their tune and say "well the vaccine protects you from getting sick, isn't that a good thing?"

Edited April 26, 2015 by eamom

[kim]

I do find it amusing that the pro-mandatory vaxer trolls are all about "protecting the vulnerable" and "community immunity" and "we have to make schools safe for cancer kids" and how anybody that is not fully vaccinted is a risk to others...but when you mention the baboon study all of a sudden they change their tune and say "well the vaccine protects you from getting sick, isn't that a good thing?"

 

my response would be.....

 

How could it possibly be a good thing? I'm taking a chance that I'm imprinting my childs immune system to recognize pertactin. If it is a pertactin free strain, I may make it harder for them to fight infection.

It will not provide my child with any type of long lasting immunity, so they will just be vulnerable again at an older age, they can be very dangerous to others i.e. infants and immunocompromised and when they become parents themselves, they will be more dangerous to their own children, if Merck and Johns Hopkns Dr.s got it right.

 

http://www.jabfm.org/content/19/6/603.full

 

Pertussis Infection in the United States: Role for Vaccination of Adolescents and Adults

Dennis A. Brooks, MD and

Richard Clover, MD

Author Affiliations

 

Johns Hopkins School of Medicine, Baltimore, MD

University of Louisville School of Medicine, Louisville, KY

 

Corresponding author: Dennis A. Brooks, MD, Merck & Co., Policy Public Health and Medical Affairs, 770 Sumneytown Pike WP97-B352, West Point, PA 19486 (E-mail: dennis_brooks2@merck.com)

 

excerpt

 

In the pre-vaccine era, pertussis was predominantly an infection of children aged 1 to 5 years, with maternal immunity providing passive protection during an infant’s first year of life.

 

 

I know the trolls like to spout #'s about natural immunity not being long lasting and the vaccine being close to natural immunity, but that is falling flat on it's face. Parents aren't being told. Also, if your child is going to have to miss school due to pertussis, would you rather that happened in the higher grades or kindergarden?

 

After widespread vaccination started, going back to the whole cell days, the only #'s that would really count in light of the baboon study would be infant illness/deaths. They will give you numbers on how the diagnosed cases fell, but we know that they did become colonized and were able to transmit. There would have been fewer pertactin free strain circulating then, so possibly milder symptoms in the vaccinated, and possibly less transmission due to less coughing (and they are admitting the vaccine was replaced due to adverse events, so infant transmission would have to be off set by other children's illness due to the vaccine) plus we were removing maternal passive immunity.

 

We google scholars, selfish baby killers are the ones causing the problems hau?

[kim]

Pertussis (eamom, which thread,lol)

 

http://www.beyondconformity.org.nz/hilarys-desk/whooping_cough_and_chameleons

[EAMom]

okay...another question:

"And unfortunately, unlike a computer, you can’t reboot, or reinstall immune system programming to correct the glitch. Once the programming is set by the vaccine, that’s how the programming stays from that point on, and that’s why it is and should be called.... “original antigenic sin”. "

^^ does this apply to the kids whose pertussis vaccine has "worn off', the teenagers who haven't been vaccinated since before kindergarten (and didn't get the 7th grade tdap)?

[kim]

from that page, click on this and be sure to read to the bottom where there is remark by Hilary regarding the reset.

 

 

Enter a chap called Sheridan in 2012. A sort of blog come news release on JAMA notified us that in Australia

 

 

I'm not sure how that would work if a exposed and recovered from natural infection after vaccination. It seems you would revert back to long lasting immunity, but that's just my take on it. Good question

Edited April 27, 2015 by kim

[EAMom]

OMG>>>>

"Dr Lambert: Children in our cohort who had received an initial dose of acellular vaccine but then

received subsequent doses of whole-cell vaccines had higher rates of pertussis when compared to

children who received the same number of whole-cell vaccines overall but whose first dose was a

whole-cell vaccine. The nature of the initial dose appeared to be the key. Linked epitope

suppression* may explain why initial exposure to acellular vaccine locks in future immune

responses. Subsequent doses of whole-cell vaccine are not able to completely “reset” the immune

response to match that provided by a first dose of whole-cell vaccine."

^^I added the bold. So, I'll bet that natural infection might not "reset" the immune system either...so maybe no long lasting immunity if you DO get natural infection???

[kim]

eamom,

 

Did you make it to Hilary's remark at the very bottom about the response only being reset when the additional antigens are presented decoupled from the antigens in the acellular vaccine?

 

edit..another 2 quick thoughts. The natural infection has now mutated in many cases.

And how does all of this factor in with vaccinating pregnant moms? They are obviously hoping that antibodies will be passed on to the infant and get them through that first crucial year. They are probably figuring that a mom vaccinated after giving birth could still colonize and transmit to the infant (which is what they were pushing before actually vaccinating while pregnant) cacoon the infant with everyone around them getting vaccinated.

 

I'm reading here right now.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/842151

 

I'm trying to wrap my head around how those passive maternal antibodies would affect an infant if those antibodies make it harder to fight a mutated strain. Is it an experiment where they are just hoping, or am I missing something?

Edited April 28, 2015 by kim

[kim]

after reviewing again, I think this is my take away

 

> A crucial antigen from natural infection is Adenylate cyclase toxin (ACT)

>No ACT with aP vaccine very little with wP vaccine

>Body does not make ACT antibodies on reexposure because it was primed with vaccine antigens (the original sin)
>In vaccinated animals colonization is not prevented upon reexposure, pertussis capable of mutating because it was not cleared and infected capable of transmitting.
>Pertactin free strain may not necessarily make it harder to clear, it may just make the vaccine less effective. The ability of the strain to infect vaccinated as opposed to naturally infected (who recovered) individuals and mutate would have been the sin committed by the original sin of prompting a suboptimal immune response. That last sentence is my own jargon.

On the pregnancy issue. I decided to see what I could find in Califonia on what happened to infants during recent outbreaks. Vaccinating every pregnant female with each pregnancy seems radical.

http://www.cdph.ca.gov/HealthInfo/discond/Documents/CDPH%20pertussis%20health%20alert%20May%2016%202014.pdf

2nd paragraph

Under 3 mos. old? Ok, so we'll vaccinate the kids six times, the health care workers, dads, aunts, uncles, care givers, librairians, butchers, bakers and candlestick makers and then we'll vaccinate the pregnant mom. Oh, and if you didn't catch her while pregnant get her before she goes home.

Be sure to read on the clickable about the "no adverse events," of vaccination during pregnancy. Notice the first name on the study
then read here

http://medicalresearch.com/author-interviews/tdap_vaccine_during_pregnancy_safety_and_efficacy/5128/

Tdap Vaccine During Pregnancy: Safety and Efficacy
Posted on May 16, 2014

Flor M. Munoz, MD Department of Pediatrics Department of Molecular Virology and Microbiology Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Texas MedicalResearch.com Interview with:
Flor M. Munoz, MD


So the baboon study doesn't apply to humans or they are confident that the vaccines (mom and then the series that starts at 2mos) will result in less severe illness in infants or they just don't know what else to do?????? How about massive media coverage to tell what is known or unknown at this point and giving everyone a heads up to try to protect those infants from people who appear to have a cold or full blown whooping cough?

 

Does this seem ok to anyone?

[EAMom]

"After the researchers took into account factors that could affect a person's risk of HPV infection (including his or her number of sexual partners), the women who received the original HPV vaccine still had about a 40 percent greater risk of being infected with a high-risk HPV strain not included in the vaccine. [10 Do's and Don'ts to Reduce Your Risk of Cancer]

 

It's unclear why the vaccinated women were more likely to be infected with other high-risk strains, the researchers said."

 

And

 

"Dr. Shashikant Lele, clinical chief of gynecologic oncology, also of Roswell Park, said he would like to see the new findings replicated, because it's not clear why women who were vaccinated with the quadrivalent vaccine would be more prone to other HPV infections than women who had not received the vaccine. "That doesn't make sense to me," Lele said." http://www.cbsnews.com/news/women-who-received-hpv-vaccine-may-need-another-shot/

 

^^Kim...could this be another case of "original antigenic sin"?

[EAMom]

after reviewing again, I think this is my take away

 

> A crucial antigen from natural infection is Adenylate cyclase toxin (ACT)

>No ACT with aP vaccine very little with wP vaccine

>Body does not make ACT antibodies on reexposure because it was primed with vaccine antigens (the original sin)

>In vaccinated animals colonization is not prevented upon reexposure, pertussis capable of mutating because it was not cleared and infected capable of transmitting.

>Pertactin free strain may not necessarily make it harder to clear, it may just make the vaccine less effective. The ability of the strain to infect vaccinated as opposed to naturally infected (who recovered) individuals and mutate would have been the sin committed by the original sin of prompting a suboptimal immune response. That last sentence is my own jargon.

 

On the pregnancy issue. I decided to see what I could find in Califonia on what happened to infants during recent outbreaks. Vaccinating every pregnant female with each pregnancy seems radical.

 

http://www.cdph.ca.gov/HealthInfo/discond/Documents/CDPH%20pertussis%20health%20alert%20May%2016%202014.pdf

 

2nd paragraph

 

Under 3 mos. old? Ok, so we'll vaccinate the kids six times, the health care workers, dads, aunts, uncles, care givers, librairians, butchers, bakers and candlestick makers and then we'll vaccinate the pregnant mom. Oh, and if you didn't catch her while pregnant get her before she goes home.

 

Be sure to read on the clickable about the "no adverse events," of vaccination during pregnancy. Notice the first name on the study

then read here

 

http://medicalresearch.com/author-interviews/tdap_vaccine_during_pregnancy_safety_and_efficacy/5128/

 

Tdap Vaccine During Pregnancy: Safety and Efficacy

Posted on May 16, 2014

 

Flor M. Munoz, MD Department of Pediatrics Department of Molecular Virology and Microbiology Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Texas MedicalResearch.com Interview with:

Flor M. Munoz, MD

 

 

So the baboon study doesn't apply to humans or they are confident that the vaccines (mom and then the series that starts at 2mos) will result in less severe illness in infants or they just don't know what else to do?????? How about massive media coverage to tell what is known or unknown at this point and giving everyone a heads up to try to protect those infants from people who appear to have a cold or full blown whooping cough?

 

Does this seem ok to anyone?

Oh...and as far as being "safe" to give while pregnant, this is what they looked at:

 

"Main Outcomes and Measures Primary outcomes were maternal and infant adverse events, pertussis illness, and infant growth and development until age 13 months. Secondary outcomes were antibody concentrations in pregnant women before and 4 weeks after Tdap immunization or placebo, at delivery and 2 months postpartum, and in infants at birth, at 2 months, and after the third and fourth doses of DTaP."

 

...so we don't know if this dTap during pregnancy would increase the risk of autism, allergies, of any other neuro/immune disorders bc they only followed the baby for 13 mo!

 

Yeah, and as far as cocooning...vaccine recommendations (vaccinate mom, caregivers, everybody) doesn't jive with current research/baboon study. I find these recommendations very troubling.

[kim]

eamom,.

 

What I found stunning was the fact that the study included so few women.

 

Forty-eight pregnant women aged 18 to 45 years received Tdap (n = 33) or placebo (n = 15) at 30 to 32 weeks’ gestation, with crossover immunization postpartum

 

Yet, that was the study the Calif. dept of public health cited. They know you have to use these things in large populations to get any kind of reliable safety data (not that we'll know what it truly looks like anyway). Munoz says that herself in the interview.

 

http://medicalresearch.com/author-interviews/tdap_vaccine_during_pregnancy_safety_and_efficacy/5128/

excerpt near the bottom

 

MedicalResearch.com: What recommendations do you have for future research as a result of this study?

Dr. Munoz: We did not aim to study the efficacy of vaccinating pregnant women in preventing infant pertussis infection. Therefore, larger studies to document the safety and efficacy of Tdap vaccination during pregnancy are needed.

 

The next question that I have is how many of the moms of the infants that were hospitalized (77) or diagnosed during the outbreak that occured Jan-April 2014 had received the vaccine?

 

It looks like the rec to vaccinate pregnant moms was added in February of 2013

 

http://www.acog.org/Resources-And-Publications/Committee-Opinions/Committee-on-Obstetric-Practice/Update-on-Immunization-and-Pregnancy-Tetanus-Diphtheria-and-Pertussis-Vaccination

 

I wonder if this is the kind of research that "Hillary grandma knows best," spends her free time looking at.

 

again, if you want to yourself right off, start reading about the infant and maternal programming naturally here.

http://www.beyondconformity.org.nz/hilarys-desk/vaccines-and-neonatal-immune-development. Engaging the immune system repeatedly with vaccines that force an unnatural immune respone takes on a whole new meaning. I don't want the government owning any childs immune system.

Edited April 28, 2015 by kim

[kim]

eamom,

 

I hate even going into the HPV vaccine cause I'm in serious stroke territory. I was going to respond to your earlier question by saying that a total guess would be that there is some cross reactivity going on btwn the vaccine and different strains that an individual may be carrying prior to vaccination (as opposed to serotype replacement which has been a problem with vaccines like PCV 7 now 13). The more I thought about what I was going to say, the more I thought, "that does sound like "original antigentic sin." So i did what I do and up popped this

 

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2014-06/HPV-02-Luxembourgpost.pdf

 

page 28

 

I only saw the words, don't have any idea what they are referring too there.

 

edit....as soon as I lose my job altogether, get divorced and my kids totally stop trying to communicate with me, i'll try to figure more of that out unless you want to take it over!

Edited April 28, 2015 by kim

[kim]

another artice for anyone interested in this subject. Flu vaccination is where I have seen this concept discussed the most

http://news.emory.edu/stories/2012/08/flu_vaccines_original_sin/campus.html Flu vaccine research: Overcoming 'original sin'

[kim]

I'm truly sick and so disappointed in the people who are elected to do this job. http://www.mercurynews.com/health/ci_28007m382/california-vaccine-legislation-advances-senate-judiciary-committee

 

California vaccine legislation advances in Senate Judiciary Committee

 

* * * * * * * * *

 

http://sanevax.org/hpv-vaccines-precautionary-principle-advised/

 

This video adds insult to injury today

 

HPV Vaccines: Dr. Sin Hang Lee, Director of Milford Medical Laboratory, explains the potential consequences of non-b conformation foreign DNA combined with aluminum salts discovered in Gardasil. Due to the unknown toxicity of this new chemical compound, he recommends that governments around the world apply the precautionary principle and halt HPV vaccination programs until research is done to determine how toxic this new chemical compound is. (The following video is recorded in English, subtitled in French.)

Edited April 29, 2015 by kim