Could this he the culprit for PANDAS?

[JoyBop]

Here's an interesting question. Please let me know if your child was exposed to antibiotics in his/her first year of life.

 

Its a long story how I have arrived at this question but I'll try to summarize briefly. We have been going through an immunologic work up with a pandas doc. My kid (as many others around here) had horrible gut problems and food allergies earlier in life. As it turns out, my kid has 2 out of 3 risk factors for another rare immune disorder. The most fascinating risk factor is that my child was exposed to abx early in life and at birth bc I was strep b positive. Then at 3 days old, I had a double mastitis And was nursing with Keflex for 10 days. Despite being on abx at 7 days post pard I had a horrendous uterine infection and took Flagyl. That made him and me very sick!

 

Anyway. It got me wondering, how many of our pandas kids were exposed to abx early in life? How many mothers were strep b positive during pregnancy/delivery?

[pr40]

why are you not focusing your question on the infections, strep and uterine? where there is inefection, there is infammation. and there is some evidence that inflammation en utero is related to psychiatric issues.

[searching_for_help]

I have often wondered about this as well. (The abx aspect...) Abx, but also acetaminophen/Tylenol.

 

Yeah, I get that the infection could be the culprit, but PANDAS and autism and all these problems that are becoming more prevalent seem to be a more recent occurrence. There have always been infections around, but the numbers of these problems have grown tremendously.(Throw in allergies and asthma!) I get the inflammation connection, but something is causing their bodies not to deal with the inflammation correctly. I'm not saying there haven't been these types of problems in the past, but it does seem like it has snowballed since the 80's.

 

Abx kill the good gut bugs, so I certainly see the concern there. But I have to wonder also about how many of our kids got Tylenol/acetaminophen when they were young? (Mine did - for discomfort and fever from vaccines, and after having tubes put in the ears. There is quite a bit of info out there on the possible link between acetaminophen and autism, and many feel autism is another autoimmune problem. After reading about it, I will never take, or give my kids Tylenol again. (My husband is a pharmacist, and he agrees there is enough info to be concerned.)

 

Who knows? Maybe it's the combo of abx and Tylenol when they were young - they are often taken together. Just more to ponder!

 

http://www.greatplainslaboratory.com/home/eng/articles/Evidence-that-increased-Acetaminophen-use.pdf

 

 

 

 

[JoyBop]

If I asked who has had strep on this forum I'm not sure that would have been thinking outside the box....I am focusing my question in the abx exposure because that has been identified as a risk factor doe auto immune related GI illness. I'm making the gut/brain connection with this one.. He did not have any infections early in life, but I did and that's why I was treated. I had the mastitis after he was born. I had the uterine infection after he was born and I did not have an active strep infection when I delivered. I tested positive for colonization of group b strep as a large percentage of the population has. Still, IV abx are give. During delivery to prevent the newborn from contracting it.

 

We already know of the connection with the onset of PANDAS and infection. We all understand the inflammation feeds this disorder. This question is about other things that may have weakened the immune system or altered the gut to predispose a child of certain genetics to develop PANDAS.

 

The other thing that led me to ask this question (aside from the coincidence that many pandas kids have or had allergies or problems with their gut) is that they have seen several other children exactly like mine. The matching history, family history of illness, and exposure to abx are almost identical. Could it be coincidence? Time will tell.

 

I thought it would be interesting to see if early exposure to abx could be a clue in what triggers PANDAS.

[Hope4Ben]

Yes, I was group B positive both kids born with iv antibiotics on me, both have pandas. Both have a bad relationship with strep.

 

Both are doing well today with longterm abx. Oldest is completely off abx.

 

Both were very sick as babies and suffered allergies and gi problems.

[kthomas]

I too have often wondered if there was a connection. I was strep B positive. I was put on IV antibiotics and my son was given antibiotics soon after birth. He was congested from birth and had trouble nursing because he couldn't breathe. He never ate we'll or slept well. We would elevate the head of his crib and put menthalatum on his chest and feet. At a year old he was put on allergy medicine and continued until he was five.

[mdmom]

I think with many of our PANS/PANDAS kids, it is like the perfect storm: many things working together leading to immune dysfunction.

 

Food for thought....the abx link early in life also puts gut flora out of whack and poor gut flora leads to a compromised immune system. If I had a do-over, I would have paid a lot more attention to what I ate during my pregnancy and when I breastfed and I would have taken high doses of probiotics. Poor gut flora can also affect a baby during the birthing process since the baby gets covered in a mother's good bacteria as they pass through the birth canal. Again, if the mother's flora is compromised from abx, this effects baby as well.

[qannie47]

I contracted a bladder infection right after IVF, abx was used. During my 7th month I got an awful sinus infection, which is related to strep, and abx was administered. Both my children had gut problems: reflux as young babies, and then one lactose intolerant (non pandas child) and my pandas child ended up with milk allergies/eczema and constant yeast infections being his symptoms....my boys are twins btw.

 

I do think though that long before the rampage of spectrum disorders women have become ill during pregnancy and have used abx without all these problems...that being said, this does not take the abx concern off the table as a piece of the puzzle. Very interesting Joybop.

 

I myself am suspicious of cell phones.....they took off in the 80's and no scientist refutes the fact that they emit radioactive particles( I think it is radioactive) that enter our bodies on a micro-cellular level and into our DNA. The dispute has always been % and what is deemed safe levels.

[rowingmom]

I was strep B negative, but did have a round of abx while breast feeding (around 4 months of age) for mastitis. No abx while pregnant but several rounds beforehand for UTI. DD has never had GI issues, except those associated with her bart pain symptoms which began in 2011.

 

For us the biggest downturn was 2 days after her 15 month MMR. Fever, loss of speech due to apraxia and loss of fine motor ability. For this reason I feel vaccination plays a role in all of this.

Edited December 18, 2013 by rowingmom

[JoyBop]

Very interesting!! I think there are so many elements at play. I have always avoided thinking about the cell phone aspect. That's such a scary thought!

 

All of this makes me seriously want to help heal their gut in any way possible. Due to the fact that my two kids used to have life threatening allergies and were always on a restrictive diet we have avoided going back bc for DS it brings back such stressful and scary memories which brings in even more OCD and anxiety. We tried an optional trail off gluten and dairy and I didn't see any change. We did it for 4 months, but it did make him miserable. However I became aware after the fact that he was eating everything available at school. Once again, thanks school system for following doctors orders and ignoring our requests!!

 

DS has a scope in feb. After we see the biopsies we will make the decision on how to proceed but I'm guessing no more dairy, beef or gluten as those were his triggers in the past.

[FLmom]

Can you be Group Strep B positive with one child, but not others? Now that you mention it, I think I may have been positive with my son(the Pandas one), but honestly can't remember. I wonder if there is a way to find out.

[qannie47]

I think also, that while there may be a universal trigger that has yet to be identified each child is unique in their own way and each probably have their own set of physical set of variables that play a role.....

[3bmom]

Round-up pesticide is patented as an Antibiotic. It came about as a derivative of Agent Orange and its use on crops began in the late 70's. It was sprayed on the weeds to kill them by hoarding essential minerals so the weed would die. At that time the FDA said small amounts would be deemed safe based on the chemical companies own research

 

. We also added systemic pesticides at that time ( can't wash off) to kill bugs which are both endocrine disrupters and neurotoxins.

 

GM0 food was engineered so you can now spray the entire plant with round up to get the weeds but the plant won't die. The reason the plant doesn't die is they found bacteria/ virus that was resistant to Round Up (antibiotic) and genetically put that in our food. Our bodies have NEVER seen this before.

 

Corn 90% of US grown has been altered so every cell manufactures pesticide and kills bugs. They are finding this pesticide in babies placenta.

 

Animals are also fed Antibiotics because it makes them fat quickly. 80% of antibiotics consumed in the US is from our food supply.

 

If this doesn't make you crazy the FDA just approved in spring very large amounts of pesticide to be sprayed on crops because GMO plants created super weeds. None of this has safety testing for us.

 

Countries around the world are now banning the growing of GMO food and labeling food brought in from the US. Last month Mexico I announced they will no longer grow GM corn effective immediately.

 

Unfortunately the US is speeding up approval with genetically altered apples and genetically altered Salmon ( grow double its size) with out human testing.

 

This all will cause inflammation. When the straw breaks the camels back is dependent on your DNA and detoxification pathways. This could be a vaccination (designed to turn your inmmune system on), Tylenol ( can't clear it), infection etc.

 

I didn't mean to write a book but this is so serious. I met a man from England last week and he said they have known this for 10 years!

I also spoke with a farmer from here who presented info to the FDA. He says pigs fed GMO food have intestines that fall apart in your hands and can no longer be used for sausage casings. Anyone else thinking leaky gut?

 

Here is a clip from a MIT researcher.

Please look at your food carefully. Go organic and stay away from processed food.

 

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h_AHLDXF5aw&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dh_AHLDXF5aw

[mdmom]

3bmom,

Thank you for putting all of that info in one place. I subscribe to mercola.com and every day I read about something that is affecting our food and ultimately our health and I'm frightened. Every time I waiver in the grocery store over $7/lb organic chicken breast or $4/lb organic apples, I think of my children and how sick they are and how we have spent almost 3 years and 10's of thousands of dollars on medicines and supplements trying to regain their health. Sure, I'm going broke trying to put good food on the table, but it's pay now or pay more later in my book.

[3bmom]

I know but it will be a lot cheaper than medical bills and I think our change in diet is what has stabilized him. He had life threatenening allergies and we had no idea! changed diet based on allergies and got 30% improvement. Learned about GMO's and altered diet and his numbers are near normal in 6 weeks. His immunologist didnt even know about GMO's. He tells every patient now.

 

I think healing comes with addressing detox pathways which Glyphospates disrupts. That's why I came to this forum. From what I have read it looks like a three prong approach, infections, diet, methylation.