Naturopathic says one thing, Allergists says another

[orthomolecular]

I have read that many people can eat a normal diet if they take the right enzymes. Many people but not everyone. I highly recommend the book Enzymes for Autism and other Neurological Disorders by Karen Defelice. I think it is possible to try to have a normal life for your child with food issues if you are willing to try some enzymes. Defelice talks about Houston Neurtoceuticals having enzymes for those with gluten or cesium problems. These may help only, meaning that your child can have some gluten every third or fourth day, or it may mean that as long as your child takes the enzymes anything is OK. With enzymes and food problems it is really a matter of trail and error.

 

Another book that is helpful for this problem is Brain Allergies: The Psychonutrient and Magnetic Connections by Philpott and Kalida. This book explains how to fast and then do the rotation diet. This book is in print and has some useful tips for dealing with these problems.

 

I use orthomolecular to treat my nutritional deficiencies. Anyone with a problem with salicylates usually has a sulfur deficiency or a problem with sulfation. This is, I believe, a treatable condition. It is a sign of a nutritonal imbalance. Of course there are enzymes that can help with this problem too. But usually problems with salicylates means a nutritional imbalance, possibly high histamine levels.

[kim]

Good info and links on salicylates, phenols, amines can be found here

 

http://www.danasview.net/phenol.htm

[azhorsegal]

Ortho and Kim, thanks for the great info. Definitely something I will check into.

[Claire]

To back up Ortho and Kim...We have lots of info here on enzymes and I am a believer in them. We take Houston Enzymes (Karen Defelice is high on that kind). I do Zyne Prime for milk and my son and husband take AFP Peptizade when they intermittently have wheat.

 

I recommend them for people who can't restrict diets for known sensitivities or for intermittant lapses.

 

Claire

[kim]

Claire,

 

Since you mentioned enzymes......My 9 yr. old has been taking all 3 of the Houston enzymes for quite some time. We ran out of Peptizyde first. This is one that I felt he needed the most for high IgG for milk. He did OK with out it, probably close to two weeks. Then we ran out of No fenol. Used zymeprime only for a week or so, then that was gone. Within maybe 3 days of no enzymes, his tongue was PURE white in the mornings. Some mornings, it looks worse than others. I am ordering more enzymes tomorrow. Will watch his tongue closley until we start again, then compare after we start again.

 

Has anyone else noticed a really white tongue with their kids? He hasn't had an antibiotic in a long time.

This is not something you have to guess about, it's white.

 

Will start the probiotics again too. We have never used a yeast killer.

 

On another note, my older son's friend DID have the chicken pox. So, I'm on Pox watch too.

 

Kim

 

Oh yea, he is not ticcless, but very mild and I'm holding my breath. I can see a shoulder shrug here and there, and extra blinks, but that's about it so far.

[Claire]

Kim,

 

I think white tongue is yeast, yes? Is that what you are implying?

 

Very very interesting.

 

Are you saying you see a few more blinks/shrugs since stopping the enzymes, or was that a general comment?

 

I know the theory is that after a while they can need enzymes less, but I thought that was at least a year.

 

Claire

[kim]

Claire,

 

Yes, I am thinking yeast. I just don't know if it's do to stopping enzymes or not. I know no phenol is supposed to weaken the outer membrane of yeast, making it more susceptable to killers, but since we've use no killers, I'm wondering how far the enzymes go with gut healing in general, resulting in better yeast control?

 

I have an appt. for both boys this morning with a new MD. Left the Pediatricians that have seen them since infants. This Dr. will give me a referral to the Chiropractor that I took my oldest son to, a while back.

 

I have to see the NP, because the Dr. is out on maturnity leave. She has a 2 yr. old son, and is about to have a baby girl. She may be a little more receptive (interested) in some of the things I believe. Time will tell. I will have the NP check out his tongue, see what she has to say, just out of curiosity. Really doubt she'll pay much attention.

 

Will let you know, and yes the blinks and shoulder shrugs, I beleive are increased. He has been doing Great for quite a while now, but like the rest of you, I see (or think I see) littlle movements, when he eats too much junk and sugar. He can seem to handle little bits of colors and corn syrup etc. as long as he takes his supplements, and doesn't overdo it. Not ideal, I know, but managable with a strong willed little guy . He has not stopped the sugar cravings, or increased his food choices, but his endurance is better, tics have been great, and he has not been sick. Progress, but not over.

 

Kim

[Chemar]

Kim

sugar craving is a MAJOR indicator of Candida albicans!

similarly the white, furry tongue

 

have you done the morning spit test? http://www.adhdrelief.com/CandidaTest.html

 

If you do decide to introduce a yeast killer I would highly recommend the new Candida Clear by NOW

[Irena]

I am very glad, Chemar, that you recommend Candida Clear as this is probably the only natural product that fights candida available in Poland (and maybe NOW Black Walnut extract). As the Organix test indicated serious yeast overgrowth in Staś, our doctor prescribed antifungal drug (Fluconazole) for a month and, additionally, Candida Clear. She didn't tell me how many capsules Staś should take so I am giving him the dose recommended on the labelfor an adult (4 capsules a day). Do you think this is OK? Staś is over 90 lb.

 

After a week of taking the antifungal I was suprised that his tics where the same (i.e. almost non-existent). It is not so any more. It is mainly vocal tics. Much worse in a sense that they are back and that they are quite frequent (although, thankfully, rather quiet). I am glad in a way because at least I know the nasty candida is dying. My question is: How will we know it is gone? His tics will go away again? If there is no more candida, there will be no more toxic die-off and the tics improve. Is my reasoning right? How long shall we continue Candida Clear? Shall we take it all the time to prevent candida? Or shall we do it your way, Chemar? One week each month.

 

And my last question is about enzymes? Does it make sense to take them only when you chose not to avoid forbidden foods? Shall I have them at hand and give them to Staś when we decide to have occasional pizza? You say enzymes promote gut healing. Shall we take them on regular basis even if we try to avoid wrong foods?

 

I don't have a big choice in Poland. In fact I hardly have any. This is the one available in Poland (someone sells it at something like an E-bay) is Nature's Sunshine Food Enzymes http://www.theherbsplace.com/food_enzymes_...ules_p_136.html

Is it too general? Should we have something more specific to aid digestion (e.g. diary)?

 

Today I am going to order MB12 and some other things from OUR Kids. Could you recommend some enzymes out of their offer? http://www.ourkidsasd.com/products/enymes/

 

I will be very gratefull for any information.

 

Irena

[Chemar]

Hi Irena

yes, the yeast die off can spark an increase in tics. Good to drink lots of pure water and up the immune boosting antioxidants at this time. Also, Epsom Salts tubs are helpful with detox

 

Candida Clear is best used until the candida is under control ( spit test is a good indicator)

The substance we use for one week each month is CAPRYLATE (caprylic acid, which is a magnesium compound that creates an unfavourable environment for yeast to grow in the gut)

 

I would think that Stas is fine on the adult RDA for Candida Clear

[kim]

Chemar/All

 

I'm really torn about whether to just go ahead and use the Candida Clear, or get the chiroprator to order the OAT test from Great Plains for me first.

 

I remember someone knowledgeable here, saying that it was a good idea to supplement deficiencies and get the body in good shape to lend support during die off. That was my plan with youngest, since his diet was SO poor, I couldn't see trying to kill off yeast until I saw that he could handle even taking vitamins. I totally expected that they would upset his stomach, and with his taste sensitivities, we'd be sunk. Turns out, he has done really well with taking the vitamins, and could even handle fish oil burps!

 

The appt. with the nurse practioner went WONDERFUL. She actually said that the boys were lucky to have me for a Mom. I almost jumped up and hugged her, all teary eyed. She said she thought it was great that we were managing without medications, and gave me a referral for the chiro. for both boys with no problem. The nurse who puts you in the room, weighs you etc, and the NP both were TOTALLY respectful of my reservations about vaccines. She said if I decided to, oldest son was ready for TDaP btwn. 12-15. She said since he's 13, she didn't really need me to sign a waiver at this time.

 

I had her look at the spots on oldest sons leg, and she said she didn't think it was chicken pox (darn it!) mostly because she wouldn't expect to see a "patch" of them, rather a few here and there on different parts of the body (he has had one varicella vax-so did the child that got the full blown case). On that note, he has been feeling rotten for the last 3 days. Achy, head aches, sleeping a lot, short tempered. Well today, actually this afternoon, he started shaking his head, and I don't mean subtle, HARD and frequently. I just can't help but to wonder if his exposure to the chicken pox, has sent his body into antibody forming mode, and kicked this up? I ran out an bought him a new DVD player, as his was shot, and some epsom salts, increased some supplements, and will get him to chiroprator tomorrow.

 

The NP was actually curious. She asked me quite a few questions. We discussed PANDAS and some of the things that I suspected flaired tics in each son. I told her about the IgG testing we had done, and even ended up telling her that we were using digestive enzymes. She didn't criticise ANYTHING. She said to bring youngest son in anytime to show her his tongue (it wasn't too bad today..wouldn't you know) she said it could be dehydration, and she wouldn't think that yeast overgrowth would change much from day to day, as far as the appearance of his tongue. Can oral thrush look different from day to day?

 

I will ask the chiropractor about ordering the OAT for me. The problem with that is, there are only certain parts I'll understand and I know that will be frustrating. Wish there was a closer Dr. fimiliar with these tests, but once I knew they would accept an order from a chiropractor, it gave me another option.

 

I know this post is rather disjointed, but it's been a loooong day. Thanks to anyone reading, sure helps to have others who can relate.

 

Kim

[kim]

Irena,

 

The second link you posted offers Houston's enzymes. These are the ones we use, and seem to be pretty highly regarded amongst posters/parents.

 

You can read about them here (which ones are used for which problems): http://216.114.78.114/webcenter/sites/HNI/...3438&N=Products

 

This is another great site for enzyme education: http://www.enzymestuff.com/

 

You may be able to use them only in the case of a diet infration, or you may find that your son is able to eat some things just fine with the use of the enzymes. It can be different for different people.

 

If you still have questions, feel free to ask.

 

Kim

[quan_daniel]

Kim,

I am sorry to here the oldest son is flaring up.

I just want to point out everytime he flares up is when he is getting a virus of some sort.

Most of time I recall was strep related.

 

I am sure when his body heals so will his tics disappear.

 

I am glad you youngest are doing so well.

 

My child is on enzyme without skipping a meal(AP PEP/ZYMEPRIME) for 1 year and 4 months.

During that time he had 3 flare ups.

 

All from SUGAR and excitement which leads to nightmare.

 

He also has slight social anxiety.

 

I put him back on FLAXSEED oil adult dosage.

 

Today I would say it has finally beginning to wane. Total flare up time was about 2 and 3/4 weeks.

 

My EYE Q fish oil finally came from Uk.

 

I will start him on it.

 

I hear so much good things on ADD and Anxiety issues being addressed by fish oil.

 

I am aware some kids tic lot more. I will observe carefully.

 

He was on fish oil then fish oil got spoiled too fast. We stopped giving him any omega 3/6..

 

My fault..then this flare up..I realized he had no omega/3/6 for a long time.

 

Claire I am glad you checked up on us periodically...wow 27 months and going..

 

Game boys and TV can take up my son time almost the whole day..

 

I feel like I need to control that but i am working and wife lets it be..

 

Although I don't see it as a trigger thank God....slight trigger maybe..not as big as SUGAR..

 

We were about to take him off enzymes or at least reduced dosage then the flare up fro SUGAR..birthday parties..

 

I rambled...

 

I hope with all the TSA research we will get a better understanding why kids tics..

 

Tourette S is a horrible name to label our kids..

 

More like our kids are enviromentally posioned..and I guess their genes are more susceptible to these posions.

 

Good Wishes to all

[Irena]

Thank You!

 

The link about enzymes - very interesting. I have made my decision and I have already placed an order.

 

Irena

[Claire]

Kim/Irena/Dan

 

 

Irena, I really think the enzymes can be helpful for so many...keep us posted!

 

Dan, glad things are going well!!

 

 

Kim,

 

Don't worry about not understanding the OAT test. When I did it, part of the fee included a consultation with one of their specialists. I called them and they walked me through what everything meant.

 

Plus their website has nice explanations...but the big things are the yeast and the glutathione IMO. Though for us, low alphaketoglutaric acid was important, and supplementing this (along with zinc) resulted in a huge and extended growth period for my son, up to the 90% now. (low alphaketoglutaric acid and zinc can stunt growth.) So it was worth every penny. I wish our DAN doctor hadn't retired (he comes in rarely, but really it is too hard for me to manage the infrequency)...I would like the OAT test again. Maybe I will get his normal doctor to agree to it sometime...even Blue Cross sees them as a preferred provider. In the meantime, I will try the Metametrix one from directlabs soon.

 

My personal feeling is to get the test first...you know me. There is no harm in treating yeast without testing (and the spit test is supposed to be pretty darn accurate), but I like to quantify that it really does make a difference...for future treatment. Otherwise, later I second guess myself as to what really happened. For us the yeast thing is an ongoing battle I think. And I just know it affects his blood sugar and energy. It affected mine for so long (and now I have his low glucose reading to lend further credence to my blood sugar level concerns for him).

 

Yes, our DAN doctor said you needed to bring up the body's health to deal with die-off.

 

How WONDERFUL to have this nurse practitioner be so supportive. I still remember your post on your conversation with an early doctor who was the opposite!! I can understand being near tears.

 

I can't answer about the pox, but certainly that is a reasonable argument!

 

I finally sent in my son's hair test, I am really curious as to whether Pfeiffer's MT promotion raised his mercury and lead excretion. I have also emailed that lab you posted that does the porphyrin test, wish me luck with that. I really want all the mercury gone, and then supposedly the yeast will be easier to manage. In the meantime, I have started Threelac with him again, and no signs of issues with it. I hope that putting it in capsules doesn't affect its potency.

 

Finally, I should comment on myself. With all this vitamin regimen for the last 2.5 years (plus my ongoing exercise), and the removal of all my mercury amalgams, and specific supplementation for tested low iron levels (plus other deficiencies), I think my health is doing great. I get so many unsolicited comments on my energy level being so great, and I do think I have great energy. Of course I have only one child and he is doing relatively well which otherwise can be a big energy zapper (yes still some health issues with energy/allergies and lightheadedness, but he is happy and neurologically in great shape). I say this as someone trying to observe first hand the impact of supplementation. I am also doing MT promotion for myself, and someday will retest for mercury...but first I want the antioxidant levels retested (I did this, but they messed up the blood draw and I must redo it).

 

Claire