Constant standing on head or hanging upside down

[AmySLP]

My daughter 5 1/2 was changed to Augmentin 2 days ago by Dr B following our 1st appt with him on Weds. She had been on Zith for about 3 weeks, but this had not rid her of her chorea-like hand movements an vocal tics. He suggested switching her ABX and seeing her back in a month to reassess. So here we are with this new behavior, initially chalkin it up to her just practicing gymnastics-but really, she must have been on her head more than 100 times today. Also severe emotional lability-none of which was present prior to yesterday. Anyhow, I couldn't even say if the hand movements are gone b/c she spent all day using her hands to stand on her head & we spent the day telling her to stop. This is nothing like she has ever had before. The emotional lability has not been this bad for more than a year. Would you think it's just this new med change? Maybe we just needto give it a few more days to kick in. Back to school Monday-she really needs to stop by then! mYhusband said she was standing on her head on the soccer field today too!

 

Thanks in advance for your input,

Amy

[kimballot]

Hi Amy - very interesting new behavior there! If it coincides with the change in meds, then I'd call Dr. B on Monday if it is still there - just to let him know. He may say give it a few days, but you should let him know about it.

 

I'd also take a short video clip of it... in case you ever need to look back at it for a detail that you are not aware of right now.

[Phasmid]

Great idea to video record this. First time I have ever heard another child doing this- mine did this about the time he first became ill (about age 3 we think). He would put his head on the floor and crawl on all fours as he pushed his head into the floor. As you can imagine, he eventually rubbed the skin off his forehead. I remember him doing this in a store or office we were in. I don't think it lasted very long.

[AmySLP]

Thanks for the suggestion of recording this. I have recorded all the odd arm & hand movements she's had and her eye & facial tics, but I wouldn't have thought to record this. Hoping it's gone today, but if not, I'll be sure to. I will call Dr. B this week if it continues. I hope this is one of those transient behaviors that ends soon!

 

 

Thanks, Amy

[smartyjones]

have you considered it could be a yeast behavior?

 

when my son first presented with symptoms, many were yeast-like behaviors. i was discussing this with the behavior therapist who didn't believe that was the likely cause and suggested pandas. he did have high titers and positive culture. he had a terrible 5-day run of azith and then later, a 30-day keflex and nystatin brought 100% remission in about 3 days.

 

he was not standing on his head, but climbing and walking and jumping off furniture, with other behaviors that are often defined as yeast behavior.

 

until recently, i credited the keflex. now,possibly nystatin may have played a bigger role. i think he needed the abx to handle strep but could it have been a complex interaction and yeast was causing much of the behaviors we saw?

 

he had not been on any abx prior to behaviors - but i am interested if strep could have contributed to an awful imbalance and yeast come on due to that. i also feel i've heard some info that there is some type of lyme - yeast connection, not from use of abx but from general imbalances from the infections.

[MomWithOCDSon]

There's also something purely "sensory" about the upside-down behavior. Now, maybe the PANDAS is intensifying that or bringing it on entirely, but I have seen many kids, including my own, go through a period where being upside-down brings about some psychological benefit. I can remember myself, as a kid, too, preferring to hang my head upside down off the bed, or sitting in a lounge chair in reverse so that my feet were up and my head was down, especially for reading. The older I get and the more I read in an attempt to "figure out" and help my DS, the more I recognize behaviors and patterns of behavior that I exhibited at his age, and while it didn't thrill my parents (in my case, it wasn't sufficiently "lady-like"), no one ever thought to investigate some organic cause or issue associated with it.

 

The other stuff . . . emotional lability, etc. . . . that does sound more PANDAS like, and we experience sort of "waves" of that in our house. Since DS is constantly on the same abx, I'm attributing it to that "saw-toothed" pattern everyone talks about.

 

I like the idea of filming it and watching it, and contacting your doctor if you see a progression of the behaviors, or a failure for them to "settle out" to a less dramatic level.

[Buster]

We had upside down behavior where our dd7 (at the time) needed to be standing on her head all the time.

 

In our case the psychiatrist thought it was a side effect of Lexapro -- something called akathesia. She dropped her off Lexapro (which had all sorts of withdrawl symptoms) and shifted her to an alternate SSRI at a much lower dose. Sure enough, once off the Lexapro, she didn't have to be upside anymore. She could never describe why she had to be upside down.

 

So if you are on Lexapro or an SSRI, might be something to talk to your doctor about.

 

Buster

 

 

My daughter 5 1/2 was changed to Augmentin 2 days ago by Dr B following our 1st appt with him on Weds. She had been on Zith for about 3 weeks, but this had not rid her of her chorea-like hand movements an vocal tics. He suggested switching her ABX and seeing her back in a month to reassess. So here we are with this new behavior, initially chalkin it up to her just practicing gymnastics-but really, she must have been on her head more than 100 times today. Also severe emotional lability-none of which was present prior to yesterday. Anyhow, I couldn't even say if the hand movements are gone b/c she spent all day using her hands to stand on her head & we spent the day telling her to stop. This is nothing like she has ever had before. The emotional lability has not been this bad for more than a year. Would you think it's just this new med change? Maybe we just needto give it a few more days to kick in. Back to school Monday-she really needs to stop by then! mYhusband said she was standing on her head on the soccer field today too!

 

Thanks in advance for your input,

Amy

[Mary M]

Curious, my dd has spent time upside down. We, too, always attributed it to her gymnastics. No SSRI's for her, yet so perhaps there's more than one explanation? Our dd's sensory issues are extreme , that leads me in the direction of a sensory connection.

[Stephanie2]

Sounds like a sensory seeking thing. My son does this. It seems to go along with increased pandas symptoms here.

 

Zith is very anti-inflammatory and Augmentin is not, BTW.

 

Also, could be yeast or even bacteria of the gut. How is the probiotic situation?

Stephanie

My daughter 5 1/2 was changed to Augmentin 2 days ago by Dr B following our 1st appt with him on Weds. She had been on Zith for about 3 weeks, but this had not rid her of her chorea-like hand movements an vocal tics. He suggested switching her ABX and seeing her back in a month to reassess. So here we are with this new behavior, initially chalkin it up to her just practicing gymnastics-but really, she must have been on her head more than 100 times today. Also severe emotional lability-none of which was present prior to yesterday. Anyhow, I couldn't even say if the hand movements are gone b/c she spent all day using her hands to stand on her head & we spent the day telling her to stop. This is nothing like she has ever had before. The emotional lability has not been this bad for more than a year. Would you think it's just this new med change? Maybe we just needto give it a few more days to kick in. Back to school Monday-she really needs to stop by then! mYhusband said she was standing on her head on the soccer field today too!

 

Thanks in advance for your input,

Amy

[AmySLP]

Today was better than yesterday in terms of the number of times on her head or upside down, but not by much. Interesting on the yeast-I know that that can heighten the sensory behaviors (having worked with children as a speech pathologist). Allison has a dx of hyperacusis, as she had significant issues with hypersensitivity to sounds as a toddler/preschooler that I had an audiologist test her (and she has super-sensitive hearing in the majority of frequencies). Other than that-no other sensory issues. She did get some therapy through an OT friend of mine and ironically improved summer 2008-the summer that all this strep/PANDAS began as well.

 

She has no other classic symptoms of yeast overgrowth- I give her a daily probiotic tablet. What else could I add? She has been on Cleocin/clindamycin in March, nothing until May and then Zithromax for about 3 weeks and now Augmentin 600 mg BID.

 

In terms of the anti-inflammatory piece, I have thought about giving her Ibuprofen to see if this makes a difference-Does that make sense to try??

The emotional lability is out of control as well today, and she was not having these episodes prior to this weekend with the med change.

 

As always, I welcome your input and am so thankful for it,

 

Amy

[AmberM]

Ditto on the yeast!!!!! My 2yr old dd does headstands in her crib every time her yeast gets high. Hanging upside down, emotional lability, drunken, silly behavior...... you name it. It's very common and I'd be willing to bet that's what's going on at your house. I hate yeast!!!!!

 

-Amber

[EAMom]

I would try the advil.

 

What dose of Azith. was your dd on?

[AmySLP]

I gave the ibuprofen just after school b/c she came home today, went upstairs to the bathroom and when she didn't come downstairs, I went up to find her in a modified headstand. Laying on her back on my bedroom floor with her legs and butt held high inthe air by her hands. When asked she came downstairs and continues to go into the handstand posture against the couch, ottoman and chair every few minutes. I gave her 1 1/2 tsp of ibuprofen-does that sound right?

 

EAMom-she is taking 600 mg augmentin twice daily. Should I be calling the docs for medication for yeast or adding to her probiotic regimine. I didn't hear anything from school so I am assuming it went well. We have a school event tonight so I hope she can manage to stay off her head there.

 

Thanks so much,

Amy