Started Biofilm Protocol Yesterday

[mama2alex]

I posted earlier about our DAN doc putting my son on a regimen of digestive enzymes, EDTA, fiber supplement and garlic to cut through the alleged biofilm that could be protecting a colony of strep in his gut. Well, we've barely started it (only added the enzymes and fiber plus a different probiotic) and BAM, tonight my son's was through the roof. He was yelling at us, afraid to get near me, wouldn't let me or my husband touch him or anything he was touching. He was frantic.

 

I'm going to call the DAN doc tomorrow and see what he thinks. On one level this was terrifying and heartbreaking to us - he's never been afraid of us touching him or his things, but I'm wondering if our doc is on to something and we are already cutting through this mucus layer and getting the hidden strep out into the open where the antibiotics can do their stuff on it. The doctor did say that if he's right about the biofilm, my son would go through a regression for a bit.

 

If this is what's happening, it's pretty good timing because we just upped his Zith to 375mg per day.

 

I hope we haven't made things worse, but I have a feeling we may have actually made a breakthrough here.

 

Will post more as we go.

[sky2bro]

I posted earlier about our DAN doc putting my son on a regimen of digestive enzymes, EDTA, fiber supplement and garlic to cut through the alleged biofilm that could be protecting a colony of strep in his gut. Well, we've barely started it (only added the enzymes and fiber plus a different probiotic) and BAM, tonight my son's was through the roof. He was yelling at us, afraid to get near me, wouldn't let me or my husband touch him or anything he was touching. He was frantic.

 

I'm going to call the DAN doc tomorrow and see what he thinks. On one level this was terrifying and heartbreaking to us - he's never been afraid of us touching him or his things, but I'm wondering if our doc is on to something and we are already cutting through this mucus layer and getting the hidden strep out into the open where the antibiotics can do their stuff on it. The doctor did say that if he's right about the biofilm, my son would go through a regression for a bit.

 

If this is what's happening, it's pretty good timing because we just upped his Zith to 375mg per day.

 

I hope we haven't made things worse, but I have a feeling we may have actually made a breakthrough here.

 

Will post more as we go.

 

 

 

 

I was just wondering how your bio flim protocol ended up working out for you. we are suppose to start my son on his next week. I would appreciate any input you can give. We already went through a standard yeat removal but could not get rid of it all.

 

Thanks,

Melissa

Edited May 6, 2010 by sky2bro

[sf_mom]

So sorry to hear about the difficulties BUT it sure sounds like Herxing!!!!!! Hang in there.

 

What Is The Herxheimer Reaction?

 

The Herxheimer Reaction is an immune system reaction to the toxins (endotoxins) that are released when large amounts of pathogens are being killed off, and the body does not eliminate the toxins quickly enough. Simply stated, it is a reaction that occurs when the body is detoxifying and the released toxins either exacerbate the symptoms being treated or create their own symptoms. The important thing to note is that worsening symptoms do not indicate failure of the treatment in question; in fact, usually just the opposite.

 

A Rose By Any Other Name

 

Technically known as the Jarisch-Herxheimer Reaction, this syndrome goes by many names, including JHR, the Herxheimer Effect, the Herxheimer Response, a Herx Reaction, Herx or Herks. The most common terminology used is the Herxheimer Reaction. It is also often referred to as a healing crisis, a detox reaction, or die-off syndrome.

 

History

 

The phenomenon was first described by Adolf Jarisch (1860-1902) working in Vienna, Austria, and a few years later by Karl Herxheimer (1861-1942), working in Frankfort, Germany. Both doctors were dermatologists mainly treating syphilitic lesions of the skin. They noticed that in response to treatment, many patients developed not only fever, perspiration, night sweats, nausea and vomiting, but their skin lesions became larger and more inflamed before settling down and healing. Interestingly, they found that those who had the most extreme reactions healed the best and fastest. The patient might be ill for 2-3 days, but then their lesions resolved.

 

A Medical Example

 

The Herxheimer reaction is caused by the release of toxic chemicals (endotoxins) released from the cell walls of dying bacteria due to effective treatment. The Herxheimer Reaction is well recognized in medical circles and is certainly not confined to the world of natural medicine or supplements.

 

For example, a recent study report (Feb ’04) on the treatment of Sarcoidosis found that, “. . . without exception, the improving patients are reporting periodic aggravation of their symptoms as an apparent direct response to the antibiotics. In other words, these patients say that their treatment makes them feel much worse before they experience symptom-relief.” The abstract of the study goes on to say, “This phenomenon is known as the Jarisch-Herxheimer Reaction (JHR) and is often referred to informally as Herx. JHR is believed to be caused when injured or dead bacteria release their endotoxins into blood and tissues faster than the body can comfortably handle it. . . . This provokes a sudden and exaggerated inflammatory response . . . . In Sarcoidosis patients, the Herxheimer reaction seems to be a valuable indication that an antibiotic is reaching its target.” In the conclusion, the author states: “In my work with Sarcoidosis patients, it is my experience that recovering MP patients understand and welcome the Herxheimer reactions even when they must endure temporary increased suffering. They accept it as the price that they must pay in order to get well and they even seem to find it gratifying to experience tangible evidence of bacterial elimination. “

[Stephanie2]

Sounds about right. Keep us updated! I really think this board needs to hear more about the DAN protocol b/c they have so many tricks up their sleeves for pandas/pitands.

 

I am going through a similar reaction with my 2 year old...just started him on vancomycin last night for possible bacteria in his gut and boy is he a mess today. I am DYING! I love him to death but can't stand to be around him right now! It's like terrible 2's times 10!! Ugh!

 

I guess I am lucky that my 5 yo is under control at the moment...sigh.

 

Stephanie

 

I posted earlier about our DAN doc putting my son on a regimen of digestive enzymes, EDTA, fiber supplement and garlic to cut through the alleged biofilm that could be protecting a colony of strep in his gut. Well, we've barely started it (only added the enzymes and fiber plus a different probiotic) and BAM, tonight my son's was through the roof. He was yelling at us, afraid to get near me, wouldn't let me or my husband touch him or anything he was touching. He was frantic.

 

I'm going to call the DAN doc tomorrow and see what he thinks. On one level this was terrifying and heartbreaking to us - he's never been afraid of us touching him or his things, but I'm wondering if our doc is on to something and we are already cutting through this mucus layer and getting the hidden strep out into the open where the antibiotics can do their stuff on it. The doctor did say that if he's right about the biofilm, my son would go through a regression for a bit.

 

If this is what's happening, it's pretty good timing because we just upped his Zith to 375mg per day.

 

I hope we haven't made things worse, but I have a feeling we may have actually made a breakthrough here.

 

Will post more as we go.

[MichaelTampa]

mama2,

 

Sounds like you might be really on to something. Sometimes if the herx is too bad, it can make sense to lower the dose a little bit to move back to a manageable level.

 

Curious what specifically you're using as far as enzymes.

 

I'm taking drugs for lyme, and also supplements for the biofilm aspect of things--zyactinase, nattokinase, and serrazimes (similar to serrapeptase).

 

I am also taking kyolic garlic and fiber supplements. Again, curious which ones you are using. Didn't know fiber could take care of biofilm, but perhaps to help mop up the dying strep bugs? The EDTA is also for biofilm?

 

Michael

[Fixit]

THat doesn't sound good....i'm supposed to start vancomycin tonight.....i am not up for it!!!!! seriously...i just want a week to not think and sleep through the night..

i don't want to be around my kids or anyone during that imaginary week....

 

 

Sounds about right. Keep us updated! I really think this board needs to hear more about the DAN protocol b/c they have so many tricks up their sleeves for pandas/pitands.

 

I am going through a similar reaction with my 2 year old...just started him on vancomycin last night for possible bacteria in his gut and boy is he a mess today. I am DYING! I love him to death but can't stand to be around him right now! It's like terrible 2's times 10!! Ugh!

 

I guess I am lucky that my 5 yo is under control at the moment...sigh.

 

Stephanie

 

I posted earlier about our DAN doc putting my son on a regimen of digestive enzymes, EDTA, fiber supplement and garlic to cut through the alleged biofilm that could be protecting a colony of strep in his gut. Well, we've barely started it (only added the enzymes and fiber plus a different probiotic) and BAM, tonight my son's was through the roof. He was yelling at us, afraid to get near me, wouldn't let me or my husband touch him or anything he was touching. He was frantic.

 

I'm going to call the DAN doc tomorrow and see what he thinks. On one level this was terrifying and heartbreaking to us - he's never been afraid of us touching him or his things, but I'm wondering if our doc is on to something and we are already cutting through this mucus layer and getting the hidden strep out into the open where the antibiotics can do their stuff on it. The doctor did say that if he's right about the biofilm, my son would go through a regression for a bit.

 

If this is what's happening, it's pretty good timing because we just upped his Zith to 375mg per day.

 

I hope we haven't made things worse, but I have a feeling we may have actually made a breakthrough here.

 

Will post more as we go.

[mama2alex]

I just saw that this old thread had been revived. We were never able to go through with this as my son developed uncontrollable burping and it was really interfering with his life and making him very unhappy.

 

 

Sounds about right. Keep us updated! I really think this board needs to hear more about the DAN protocol b/c they have so many tricks up their sleeves for pandas/pitands.

 

I am going through a similar reaction with my 2 year old...just started him on vancomycin last night for possible bacteria in his gut and boy is he a mess today. I am DYING! I love him to death but can't stand to be around him right now! It's like terrible 2's times 10!! Ugh!

 

I guess I am lucky that my 5 yo is under control at the moment...sigh.

 

Stephanie

 

I posted earlier about our DAN doc putting my son on a regimen of digestive enzymes, EDTA, fiber supplement and garlic to cut through the alleged biofilm that could be protecting a colony of strep in his gut. Well, we've barely started it (only added the enzymes and fiber plus a different probiotic) and BAM, tonight my son's was through the roof. He was yelling at us, afraid to get near me, wouldn't let me or my husband touch him or anything he was touching. He was frantic.

 

I'm going to call the DAN doc tomorrow and see what he thinks. On one level this was terrifying and heartbreaking to us - he's never been afraid of us touching him or his things, but I'm wondering if our doc is on to something and we are already cutting through this mucus layer and getting the hidden strep out into the open where the antibiotics can do their stuff on it. The doctor did say that if he's right about the biofilm, my son would go through a regression for a bit.

 

If this is what's happening, it's pretty good timing because we just upped his Zith to 375mg per day.

 

I hope we haven't made things worse, but I have a feeling we may have actually made a breakthrough here.

 

Will post more as we go.

[mama2alex]

Michael,

 

I believe the protocol was enzymes (SPS 30 by Theramedix), Cardo Renew EDTA, BioPure garlic and FiberPro by Karuna (yes, I believe it was to mop things up). Not sure the purpose of the EDTA. In the end, it wasn't herxing that stopped us, but burping!

 

mama2,

 

Sounds like you might be really on to something. Sometimes if the herx is too bad, it can make sense to lower the dose a little bit to move back to a manageable level.

 

Curious what specifically you're using as far as enzymes.

 

I'm taking drugs for lyme, and also supplements for the biofilm aspect of things--zyactinase, nattokinase, and serrazimes (similar to serrapeptase).

 

I am also taking kyolic garlic and fiber supplements. Again, curious which ones you are using. Didn't know fiber could take care of biofilm, but perhaps to help mop up the dying strep bugs? The EDTA is also for biofilm?

 

Michael

[AmberM]

I've done the biofilm protocol with my dd for yeast and clostridia. It was the most intense protocol we've ever been through....... sort of like unleashing a dragon. We had die-off everyday for over a month. One thing we had to do was use something really strong for the mop up. Fiber wasn't enough. We ended up using charcoal on the bad days and citrus pectin on the good days. Looking back, I wonder if I was opening up biofilm and exposing potential strep but not killing it. At the time, we didn't know my dd might have PANDAS.

[AmberM]

THat doesn't sound good....i'm supposed to start vancomycin tonight.....i am not up for it!!!!! seriously...i just want a week to not think and sleep through the night..

i don't want to be around my kids or anyone during that imaginary week....

 

 

Make sure you have activated charcoal on hand. Take some about 45min to an hr. after the vanco. It really helped us get through some rough days here!

[Johnsmom]

We did bio-film for about 2 years on and off, but mostly on. SPS 30 which is a mucolyctic enzyme that is supposed to clear strep in the nose. EDTA to kill gut metals (thats what I was told) wait 30 minutes then give yeast aid and berberine complex for immune system. This protocol varied with strep infections. We would add zith to it sometimes. I remember when my son was having issues with peeing his pants Dr Usman told me it was the strep dying off.

In our experience I feel that we just stirred things up. Even when I gave charcoal symptoms did not get any better. I DO remember other parents having success with this protocol but that wasnt the case for us.

Vancomycin was not good for us either but that was before bio-film and I dont think I ever tried charcoal.

 

 

 

Sounds about right. Keep us updated! I really think this board needs to hear more about the DAN protocol b/c they have so many tricks up their sleeves for pandas/pitands.

 

I am going through a similar reaction with my 2 year old...just started him on vancomycin last night for possible bacteria in his gut and boy is he a mess today. I am DYING! I love him to death but can't stand to be around him right now! It's like terrible 2's times 10!! Ugh!

 

I guess I am lucky that my 5 yo is under control at the moment...sigh.

 

Stephanie

 

I posted earlier about our DAN doc putting my son on a regimen of digestive enzymes, EDTA, fiber supplement and garlic to cut through the alleged biofilm that could be protecting a colony of strep in his gut. Well, we've barely started it (only added the enzymes and fiber plus a different probiotic) and BAM, tonight my son's was through the roof. He was yelling at us, afraid to get near me, wouldn't let me or my husband touch him or anything he was touching. He was frantic.

 

I'm going to call the DAN doc tomorrow and see what he thinks. On one level this was terrifying and heartbreaking to us - he's never been afraid of us touching him or his things, but I'm wondering if our doc is on to something and we are already cutting through this mucus layer and getting the hidden strep out into the open where the antibiotics can do their stuff on it. The doctor did say that if he's right about the biofilm, my son would go through a regression for a bit.

 

If this is what's happening, it's pretty good timing because we just upped his Zith to 375mg per day.

 

I hope we haven't made things worse, but I have a feeling we may have actually made a breakthrough here.

 

Will post more as we go.