What helps more w/tics: diet changes or supplements?

[ilovedogs]

What has everyone found to be the bigger help? I know that most of you here do both. I'm just looking for a starting point right now. I am getting pretty good at cutting out additives, preservatives, food dyes, etc. I've even been buying soaps and shampoos that have no color additives, as well. I have started him on a CalMag, vit D, zinc supplement, and Coromega. I've been doing this for a month and haven't seen a decrease in tics, actually they've gotten worse!

 

So, I don't want to change too many things at once. I'm hoping to convince my husband to agree to let me take ds to a naturopath here that Carolyn N. recommended who does the NAET treatments. For now, I'm kinda on my own. His ped just says it's a tic and it will probably go away. Of course, I know better and I'm really hoping to help him this year. I have to admit, though, that I don't want to do gluten free. I've done it myself for a month when I was having some IBS problems and it was SO hard for me, as an adult. I could probably swing a dairy free diet for a bit but I know casein is found in MANY common foods so that would be hard, too!

 

I guess I'm just looking for a good starting point. Thanks!

[Caryn]

IMHO--

We did both. I started with heavy amounts of Bontech supps in the beginning then went to special compounded supps. They helped but did not eradicate the tics. The only thing that did that was a GF diet. If your child is gluten intolerant or has another specific allergy to a certain food no amount of supplements in the world will stop the ticcing completely when they are still ingesting the allergen and thus causing the immune system to produce excessive antibodies. I didn't want to do GF (and corn-free) either when I first got the results back. It was like a death sentence to the Christmas cookie lady.

But you know what? Almost a year later and I am not looking back. My kids are so much healthier now and we are off the supplements (knock on wood) for two full months. No tics for nearly three full weeks.

I think if you are dealing with a gut disorder that leaks into the brain the only thing that will really heal that is a good anti-allergen diet and lots of time. We are now flirting with the idea of enzymes but I have been told not to do that under any circumstances unless the gut is completely healed because the neurological part of it will flare up.

So I say this-- heal the gut if that's what you need to do. Commit to at least a year GF if your child tests gluten intolerant. After that you may be a candidate for enzymes and may be able to return to a low gluten diet (I say this without experience, so don't trust me completely). I am scouring the internet for people using enzymes successfully (there are many that have not found success, the main reason being that the gut was not completely healed).

So that's my feeling on the subject.

Caryn

[kim]

but I have been told not to do that under any circumstances unless the gut is completely healed because the neurological part of it will flare up.

 

Caryn, that really confuses me. My oldest son tested IgG positive to wheat, barley and rye. He uses Houston enzymes. I have not found that to be the case.

Many parents seem to report positive results when eliminating the diet, with the use of enzymes. Not all, by any means, so maybe it depends on the degree of damage.

 

I have avoided doing GF/CF for only one reason. My youngest son (extremely self limited diet) lost too much weight when I tried, and I didn't have the guts to continue. I want to be really clear about that. I do believe it's beneficial to many children. However, if you are relating strictly to tics (not other symptoms like inattention, etc. that I can't comment on, as we don't deal with that).

 

I can't say that even with leaving gluten and caisen in the diet (youngest son tested positive with high number to cow's milk) that tics are worse. I feel like they are a really helpful supplement for my boys. Just been our experience.

[CSP]

I would have to say for my son, the diet helped in the behavior he was having at age 12. Before that age very good boy, after 12 until now, he is less mouthy. However, we did see a big help with tics in some of the supplements we gave him, almost the day after he was given them. So both have helped.

 

C.P.

[Chemar]

hi

for us it was definitely the combination of the two

 

my son doesnt have any food allergies, but he is very chemically sensitive and so we had to remove food additives. We had already started the supplements. which really helped a lot....BUT....it wasnt until we combined careful diet with supplements that we truly saw the remarkable reduction in his tic severity and frequency as well as reduced OCD etc

We do not do anything "free" other than junk food free and artificial additive free, but we do eat organic and "whole" food made from scratch and we focus on a diet that is anti-inflammatory as well as anti-candida ('"yeast")

[ilovedogs]

hi

for us it was definitely the combination of the two

 

my son doesnt have any food allergies, but he is very chemically sensitive and so we had to remove food additives. We had already started the supplements. which really helped a lot....BUT....it wasnt until we combined careful diet with supplements that we truly saw the remarkable reduction in his tic severity and frequency as well as reduced OCD etc

We do not do anything "free" other than junk food free and artificial additive free, but we do eat organic and "whole" food made from scratch and we focus on a diet that is anti-inflammatory as well as anti-candida ('"yeast")

 

So, does going anti-candida mean no bread? I would assume that candida feasts on yeast or most yeast products.

 

I really need some tips and tricks to get ds to take pills! We were working with training him but his gag reflex is so severe that he really struggles. I need some other options or advice. I'd like to start him on mag taurate and on some yeast fighting supplements.

[Caryn]

My oldest son tested IgG positive to wheat, barley and rye. He uses Houston enzymes. I have not found that to be the case.

Many parents seem to report positive results when eliminating the diet, with the use of enzymes. Not all, by any means, so maybe it depends on the degree of damage.

 

That has been my experience with the different people I have talked with. I have purchased enzymes from Houston but have not yet implemented them. (Other than experimenting on myself one time). My son is VERY reactive to gluten. The woman who I talked with from the company told me that it certainly does not work for all kids and that the degree of damage plays a role. She has worked with many families that started the enzymes only to quit because their child's symptoms worsened. Some of these same families returned to the enzymes six months later to find that they worked. She surmised that this was because the gut had ample time to heal. Some found that they just wouldn't ever work.

 

They are not a magic pill. I would rather someone err on the side of caution than jump the gun. Let me explain. Six months ago when Tigger got accidental cross contamination he would erupt with ticcing. Not so anymore. Now he will puke or have explosive diarrhea. It appears as if the reaction has shifted from neurological to just the gut. I cannot explain why this is. Perhaps he had a leaky gut and it has healed? I only know that I have definitely seen a shift. Whether or not the neurological flares up again in the future I don't know. Perhaps if we go back on a typical American diet it would.

 

The thing with the enzymes is that they have to be given with EVERY meal. You cannot just give them in the morning and expect them to work all day long. Gluten without enzymes will cause damage. When a very reactive child is put on a gluten diet with enzymes the chances for cross-contamination are much greater. How does the child know what is safe or unsafe? Thus the message we send is confusing. You can only eat gluten with pills..... It is like feeding a diabetic cotton candy and then saying, well-- let's just give you a shot to counteract it.

I really think a gluten diet is dangerous for the gluten intolerant, regardless of how reactive you are. If you are gluten intolerant then you have the gene that can cause celiac.

For me the enzymes helped only with digestion, not with inflammation or other symptoms (in my experience). I had no bloating or pain after eating the gluten (I am gluten intolerant but as far as I know not celiac). I did have flatulence and inflammation the next day. FWIW I ate a burger so I ingested gluten and yeast (which is pretty much what we all do on a gluten diet, as most all bread has yeast.) I am not sure how the enzymes work with digestion of yeast. I will have to inquire.

I bought them recently thinking that they may help us with cross contamination as the last few times we ate GF at restaurants Tigger got sick and either puked or got diarrhea. Not a good way to end a day out. My hope was to give him the enzymes for the odd occasion when we have to eat out (Like my grandmother's 90th birthday) and he may get gluten from an inexperienced server or cook who doesn't understand the dangers of using contaminated pots and serving utensils. Right now I don't plan on giving him a gluten diet with enzymes. I may change my mind, but for now we are very happily gluten free at home.

Caryn

[Chemar]

So, does going anti-candida mean no bread? I would assume that candida feasts on yeast or most yeast products.

 

hi ilovedogs

 

when we were intitially on the anti candida diet to actively treat overgrowth, then we when totally yeast free and other modifications that we no longer adhere to rigidly

 

Now we eat to prevent a re-overgrowth, maintaining with Candida Clear by NOW. We eat whole grains and minimal sugar, with emphasis on veggies, fruit, fish and poultry, with occasional beef and lamb.

 

so we dont eat yeast free anymore, but low yeasted foods rather.

 

However, when there is evidence of candida overgrowth being active, then a more rigid diet is needed

[bcase]

Hi CSP,

 

What supplements and dosage are you using. My daughter is 12 and we're having another bout with tics. Thank you.

 

Bcase

[CSP]

Hi bcase,

 

He gets in the morning, 1/2 tsp Natural Calm, 333mg Calcium, 50mg B6, 500mcg B12, 200iu vit E, 50mcg Selenium, 550mg Inositol, and a multi-vit and mineral. I use Nature's Plus because it did not have copper, he tested copper toxic. I will try to get him a more adult multi when he is over 100lb.

 

When he comes home from school he gets another 1/2tsp Natural Calm.

 

Evening he gets 1 tsp Natural calm, 333mg calcium, 50mg zinc.

 

He tics more on fish oil, so we do 6oz Alaskan sockeye salmon every other day, to get his DHA (we buy from Vital choice)

 

We introduced each new Vit. very slowly, and saw the best results with the Natural calm, B6 and B12.

 

My husband works out with him every other day lifting and boxing, to help keep his moods good.

 

My son also has a very high allergy to peanuts and is very good about not eating anything outside our home. He really does not want to use that epi-pin. I'm pretty sure I know everything he puts in his mouth.

 

He saw the Dr. last month and she said we needed to add vit. D. other then that he is a very healthy young man.

 

C.P.

[bcase]

Thanks CP,

 

I just started the Kid's Calm, and we started a glass of Kefir daily. I'm thinking of adding the B12, then the B6. I have heard that certain fish oils can increase tics. Can you get the same benefit from flaxseed oil supplement? Thanks again.

 

Bcase

[ilovedogs]

Thanks CP,

 

I just started the Kid's Calm, and we started a glass of Kefir daily. I'm thinking of adding the B12, then the B6. I have heard that certain fish oils can increase tics. Can you get the same benefit from flaxseed oil supplement? Thanks again.

 

Bcase

Hi Bcase,

Is the Kefir to help rebuild the flora in the gut? I just bought some and thought it would be a good start for ds, as well. I just posted a question about the fish oil since we both seem to have the same concern!

[Jeff]

For us it has been only the elimination of artificial colors, flavors, and certain preservatives. Eliminating those additives made a huge difference for us with the tics.

Many people who have eliminated these items have seen an increase in problems before they see a decrease. So, if you've only been at it for a month, try to hang in there a couple more weeks at least to see if anything changes.

Try keeping a daily food diary, including everything they eat and drink, and recording tic levels. Maybe you'll find something that they're eating that might be causing more tics....

Jeff

[faith]

bcase,

flaxseed oil is like one step down in relation to fish oil, but if you can't take the fish oil, flax is next best.

 

Faith

[bcase]

I started the Kefir because I read that it is a good source of probiotic. I didn't think it could hurt.....