5-HTP

[kallik]

Does 5-HTP cause an increase with tics? Does it increase the dopamine levels or decrease them? Wanted to give my son some to help him sleep but didn't want it affecting his tics negatively. How much do I give to make it effective? Thanks.

[CSP]

I started the 5-htp in Nov. for my son mostly to see if I saw any change with the vocal tic. I feel like sometimes he makes the vocals over and over at times because of OCD. Well I tried it for a month and it did not help at all. My husband even thought it made him worse. It is so hard to tell, because it was the holidays, and he has so many teeth coming in. My husband was the one who read that 5-htp does increase dopamine also, and he wanted me to stop giving it to him. We did figure a month was a good time we should have seen some help if it was working for OCD. My son does not have OCD, he does nothing that I have read people with OCD do, but I thought maybe he has an OCD vocal tic. I guess not just tics that are vocals.

 

C.P.

[michele]

Try GABA Calm at bedtime. It really helps to relax them. Also the Epsom salt baths. I have been using 5HTP with my son. It was recommended by a DAN Dr. I guess it supports positive moods. I wonder if it does increase dopamine? Since my son has had trouble with ADHD lately maybe it could be from the 5HTP. I have given it to him for about a month. It has been the last month he has been having trouble in class. He already had trouble with too much dopamine/high markers in his blood work so I am surprised the DAN wanted him on it then. Maybe I will cut it out for a few days and watch and see if it makes a difference.Thanks for the information. I have not noticd an increase in tics. I give 1 pill a day 100 mg.

 

Michele

 

Does 5-HTP cause an increase with tics? Does it increase the dopamine levels or decrease them? Wanted to give my son some to help him sleep but didn't want it affecting his tics negatively. How much do I give to make it effective? Thanks.

[kim]

I was a little confused regarding 5HTP and l tryptophan. I found this site to be very informative. I love that he cites studies. For a guy who is trying to sell products, I was surprized that the info that he puts out there, seems very balanced.

 

I had purchased 5HTP for my son during his last head shaking flair. Now, I would buy the l trytophan.

 

http://www.raysahelian.com/tryptophan.html

 

http://www.raysahelian.com/5htp.html

 

CP, my understanding is that 5HTP and Trytophan are involved in the production of serotonin and melotonin. I'm not saying that there isn't any connection in relationship to dopamine, just if there is, I'm not aware of that mode of action.

 

After reading several articles, what I got out of it was that trytophan would only be used/converted to an amt of 5HTP that your body needed. By supplementing with 5HTP, you were sort of forcing the element on your body.

 

I can't say that it was an immediate tic buster, but I can say, it certainly made my son tired. Interestingly, my husband had to be up all nite, for several nites. I told him to try a little of the 5HTP, as it helped promote sleep so readily in our son (he was trying to get to sleep during the day). His remark was that it made him "more awake" and his heart raced. I can only suspect that he is not serotonin deficient, and the 5HTP boosted his levels enough that he felt jittery.

 

I was looking on Mrs. D's site for info on choline this morning, and came across this thread, that you might want to read too

 

http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/thread38314.html

[CSP]

Kim,

 

5-htp and tryptophan really confuse me too. I had info about tryptophan not getting to the brain as well as 5-htp. Something about tryptophan needing to hitch a ride with something else to even get to the brain. 5-htp did not need that, it more or less had a free pass to the brain, so to speak. Way over my head?

 

Yes, my son was tired too, he even said he did not have to get up in the middle of the night to use the bathroom. Really knocked him out.

 

I have often wondered why my husband is always in a good mood. He never comes home in a bad mood. I'm very confused on his whole serotonin/dopamine levels. Did his serotonin rise as an adult and the dopamine lower, and this is why he doesn't tic anymore?

 

Thanks Kim,

C.P.

[Chemar]

hi

 

my son took 5htp at 50 mg each evening for a number of years

 

it really helped with his OCD and did not increase his tics. made him sleep well too

 

my husband cannot take it...makes him "wired"

 

they both have TS and OCD

[kallik]

CSP:

I started the 5-htp in Nov. for my son mostly to see if I saw any change with the vocal tic. I feel like sometimes he makes the vocals over and over at times because of OCD. Well I tried it for a month and it did not help at all. My husband even thought it made him worse.

Have you tried magnesium taurate for your son's vocal tic? It really seemed to help my son with his throat clearing. It didn't seem to take long to start working either. Now I just hear it a little when he eats something he's not supposed to.

Michelle:

He already had trouble with too much dopamine/high markers in his blood work so I am surprised the DAN wanted him on it then.

This sounds like a test I wouldn't mind getting done. Does it have a name? What should I ask his pediatrician to do? Also, I noted the Gaba calm has L-tyrosine which is a precursor to dopamine? Does anybody know about this? Thanks everyone.

[michele]

I believe it was the microbial panel from Great Plains Labrotary. Also ran an amino acids prophile which helped pin point which amino acids he was lacking in. He was especially low in taurine and tryptophan. That is why he ordered me to give him taurine, half a capsule a day and 5HTP one capsule a day . Side effects read it can infrequently be stimulating or sedating in sensitive persons. I looked over my notes and GABA is calming and a mood stabilizer. It can rarely be sedating. Can help insomnia. He recommended 250-500 mg usually at bedtime but can be used up to three times per day for mood stabilizing. Also he recommended TMG for calming and methylation. GABA does help to relax him for sleep. I always had a difficult time getting him down at night. I am not sure what a precurser to dopamine would do? Do you know?

 

Michele

 

 

CSP:

I started the 5-htp in Nov. for my son mostly to see if I saw any change with the vocal tic. I feel like sometimes he makes the vocals over and over at times because of OCD. Well I tried it for a month and it did not help at all. My husband even thought it made him worse.

Have you tried magnesium taurate for your son's vocal tic? It really seemed to help my son with his throat clearing. It didn't seem to take long to start working either. Now I just hear it a little when he eats something he's not supposed to.

Michelle:

He already had trouble with too much dopamine/high markers in his blood work so I am surprised the DAN wanted him on it then.

This sounds like a test I wouldn't mind getting done. Does it have a name? What should I ask his pediatrician to do? Also, I noted the Gaba calm has L-tyrosine which is a precursor to dopamine? Does anybody know about this? Thanks everyone.

[kim]

Kallik,

 

I pulled a 100 mg capsule apart and gave it to my son (adult size and weight) 3 times a day. Even at approx 33 mgs. he would say that it made him tired. We introduced that slowly, btw. The first day, he only got 1/3 of the capsule. I like to go slowly in case there is a negative effect too. I did give him more than what would be necessary for sleep, as I was hoping to increase serotonin, to help alleviate a tic that I felt was clearly being done to induce pain.

 

Michelle,

 

Did your Dr. specify GABA Calm, or just GABA? Kallik has a good point there, about the L tyrosine.

 

 

CP

 

the fact that risperidone did have a tic reduction effect for your son, I wanted to see how it works. You know I have NO medical background, so I certainly am no authority here, but some of this is interesting. Risperidone seems to act largely by blocking dopamine or more specifically the D2 receptor. It is also thought to have the effect of blocking a serotonin receptor, 5HT2.

 

Here is a bit on 5HT2

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-HT_receptor

 

5-HT2A receptors increase the activity of glutamate in many areas of the brain, while some other serotonin receptors have the effect of suppressing glutamate. Increased stimulation of 5-HT2A receptors seem to oppose the therapeutic actions of increased stimulation of other serotonin receptors in anti-depressant and anxiolytic treatments.

We know that glutamate is an excitatory chemical. I don't know what effect tryptophan or 5HTP have on the 5HT2 receptor. Since they are involved in an increase in serotonin, if it has a stimulatory effect, that may account for the lack in benefit you saw with your son?

 

Also, I personally believe, that some of these drugs, when stopped, leave some of the receptors hypersensitive. The fact that your son was on a drug that altered the function of this receptor, may have made him supersensitive to a substance that would act to stimulate it? In other words, I'm wondering if the 5HTP may have made this receptor more sensitive to the glutamate levels, and did increase the level of tics.

 

 

 

 

The reference to SIB in this excerpt refers to self injurious behavior. As you can see, this whole issue if very complicated

 

http://www.palace.net/llama/psych/pharm.html

 

Different neurotransmitter receptors affect different bodily functions. Serotonin, for example, has as many as seven receptor types, and one of those has five subtypes. These receptors are involved in regulating emotion, mood, impulsivity, aggression, digestion, smooth muscle relaxation, and sexual behavior, among other functions.

 

and

 

Risperidone, another relatively new neuroleptic, binds D2 dopamine and 5-HT2 serotonin receptors; it has been reported by Khouzam and Donnelly (1997) to reduce SIB in a patient with borderline personality disorder. Olanzapine (Zyprexa) is another atypical neuroleptic used by some psychiatrists to treat SIB. There are no well-controlled studies of these drugs, however; the literature on them consists mainly of case reports and again, no one has made a distinction between types of SIB. These drugs can also have troublesome side effects -- patients on clozapine, for example, require weekly blood tests because of the risk of white-blood-cell abnormalities.

[michele]

Kim,

 

Could you tell me the effects of l-tyrosine? Dr. Demio did tell me in the beginning to use TMG or GABA I believe. The last time we talked he did not

Kallik,

 

I pulled a 100 mg capsule apart and gave it to my son (adult size and weight) 3 times a day. Even at approx 33 mgs. he would say that it made him tired. We introduced that slowly, btw. The first day, he only got 1/3 of the capsule. I like to go slowly in case there is a negative effect too. I did give him more than what would be necessary for sleep, as I was hoping to increase serotonin, to help alleviate a tic that I felt was clearly being done to induce pain.

 

Michelle,

 

Did your Dr. specify GABA Calm, or just GABA? Kallik has a good point there, about the L tyrosine.

 

 

CP

 

the fact that risperidone did have a tic reduction effect for your son, I wanted to see how it works. You know I have NO medical background, so I certainly am no authority here, but some of this is interesting. Risperidone seems to act largely by blocking dopamine or more specifically the D2 receptor. It is also thought to have the effect of blocking a serotonin receptor, 5HT2.

 

Here is a bit on 5HT2

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-HT_receptor

 

5-HT2A receptors increase the activity of glutamate in many areas of the brain, while some other serotonin receptors have the effect of suppressing glutamate. Increased stimulation of 5-HT2A receptors seem to oppose the therapeutic actions of increased stimulation of other serotonin receptors in anti-depressant and anxiolytic treatments.

We know that glutamate is an excitatory chemical. I don't know what effect tryptophan or 5HTP have on the 5HT2 receptor. Since they are involved in an increase in serotonin, if it has a stimulatory effect, that may account for the lack in benefit you saw with your son?

 

Also, I personally believe, that some of these drugs, when stopped, leave some of the receptors hypersensitive. The fact that your son was on a drug that altered the function of this receptor, may have made him supersensitive to a substance that would act to stimulate it? In other words, I'm wondering if the 5HTP may have increased the glutamate levels, and did increase the level of tics.

 

 

 

 

The reference to SIB in this excerpt refers to self injurious behavior. As you can see, this whole issue if very complicated

 

http://www.palace.net/llama/psych/pharm.html

 

Different neurotransmitter receptors affect different bodily functions. Serotonin, for example, has as many as seven receptor types, and one of those has five subtypes. These receptors are involved in regulating emotion, mood, impulsivity, aggression, digestion, smooth muscle relaxation, and sexual behavior, among other functions.

 

and

 

Risperidone, another relatively new neuroleptic, binds D2 dopamine and 5-HT2 serotonin receptors; it has been reported by Khouzam and Donnelly (1997) to reduce SIB in a patient with borderline personality disorder. Olanzapine (Zyprexa) is another atypical neuroleptic used by some psychiatrists to treat SIB. There are no well-controlled studies of these drugs, however; the literature on them consists mainly of case reports and again, no one has made a distinction between types of SIB. These drugs can also have troublesome side effects -- patients on clozapine, for example, require weekly blood tests because of the risk of white-blood-cell abnormalities.