Son's Tics Increased Greatly when starting No-Phenol

[CarolynN]

Can I just say how frustrated I feel right now. I just needed to get that off my chest. This whole thing is just like one big roller coaster I swear. Daniel was doing so well taking the Benadryl and now I think he is experiencing a die off reaction to candida because he has had a HUGE upswing in tics after taking the No-Phenol today.

 

My questions are:

Can someone tell me if they experienced an increase in tics with their child due to a die off reaction and how long does it last?

 

How quickly can this reaction come on?

 

Has anyone taken No-Phenol with a reaction or did they notice no reaction?

 

I gave him his first dose of No-Phenol yesterday 1/2 capsule and 1/2 capsule today. Well yesterday I noticed an upswing in tics after he had the first No-Phenol dose. So anyway after about 30-40 minutes, of the No-Phenol today he started having a massive gulping tic that I seriously could not believe. He has never experienced a tic this dramatic and for so long. It was pretty much continual from 4 p.m. until he went to bed. He was getting very upset at himself and saying how embarassed he was. Tomorrow I am cutting way back and perhaps only give him 1/8 of a capsule.

 

The only thing different today from any other day was the No-Phenol so I have to think he is experiencing a die off of candida. I never really suspected he had candida before, just because I have given him pro-biotics and grapefruit seed exact on and off and they help control candida. Apparently from what I can find on the internet some people take No-Phenol for the very reason of killing off yeast. Of course it has it main function of helping digest veggies/fruit and artificial dyes.

 

I just went into my post that I did the other day regarding my thoughts on why Daniel may be so reactive to artificial foods and put in a note that it looks like he is reacting to the No-Phenol. I just want people to realize things certainly could get worse before they get better.

 

I was thinking as sensitive as Daniel is to MSG if he has toxins from candida going through him his body is going to react what else could I expect.

 

Thanks for your input. It is greatly appreciated.

 

Carolyn N.

[CarolynN]

Okay! I am feeling better. I think I may understand more what is going on with Daniel. Thanks again to another posting I found on the Latitudes Website. As I posted regarding to my theory as to what is going on with Daniel regarding his sulfate ions well it sort of answers my question regarding the die off reaction. I found this post that confirms what I was initially thinking was going on with Daniel in regard to the sulfate ions. It explains that MSG and salicylates indicate faulty sulfation. Here is the post http://www.latitudes.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=2003 .

 

So my thought is this if he has a bunch of toxins dieing off due to the enzymes getting introduced, then toxins are building up greatly because his sulfation system is already unable to process out the toxins in just his food. I just completely overloaded his little body with toxins. It is going to take a while I am sure for the enzymes to have "cleaned" out the toxins and get his gut on the right track.

 

I am starting to think, after reading the above posting, I may need to find a doctor who really understands this sulfation system. I am sure the enzymes will eventually help but it looks like, according again to the above post, he may need to be on a sulfur-containing amino acid too. But the writer cautions you have to be on the right kind of sulfur.

 

I was just thinking this all goes to show that I may be on the right track for him. I was so discouraged earlier but know I realize this does fit into the big picture

 

What kind of doctor would specialize in this system of the body?

 

Carolyn N.

[kim]

Carolyn N,

 

Have you read this page?

 

http://www.enzymestuff.com/discussionadjustments.htm#1

 

I think any DAN or Dr. who is works outside the box, would have some knowledge of this problem.

You can always print things that you think pertain to your son, and record any reactions that you think are associated. If you call someone to make an appt.you may want to ask for the Dr. to call you personally first, think of some pointed brief questions to ask, and sort of get a feel for them before you commit to a $300.00

per hour appt! You could also ask to speak to the Dr.s nurse. They can be a wealth of info and not as rushed. You can ask what sort of testing the Dr. orders most frequently etc.

 

I also wanted to mention that if you suspect a problem in this area be sure to keep your son away from any thimerosal containing vaccines. Mercury screws up sulfur metabolism Be especially cautious of the FLU shots. Many still contain thimerosal. There is also some discussion on other forums about how the vaccines that are processed with thimerosal that is supposed to be filtered out during final processing leaving only "trace" amts. is regulated.

 

http://tuberose.com/Sulphur_and_Mercury.html

[CarolynN]

Thank you Kim! That really helped.

 

I also just read in "Excitotioxins the Taste that Kills by Russell L. Blaylock M.D.", it is about MSG and artificial sweetners. At this point in the book he was explaining other sources of excitotoxins. It says and I quote "protease enzymes of various sources can release excitotoxin amino acids from food proteins". This other enzyme, his doctor prescribed, has protease in it. I don't know this is necessarily a bad thing it just may need time for his body to adjust like your articile said. But I am going to need to ask my doctor.

 

I really do think enzymes are going to help Daniel, a lot, it is figuring out the right ones and also the right balance for his body. I figuring out real quick is body is very sensitive and I just cannot jump into this full force like I was hoping I could.

 

Carolyn N.

[CarolynN]

I just wanted to update that Daniel is doing much better and still is using the No-Phenol but I back way back. I have been giving Daniel an 1/8 of a capsule, just at around dinner time, and he seems to be doing real good at this point. I will steadily increase it as time goes on (the directions state 1/2 capsule 1 time a day when first starting out).

 

I just have to say I e-mailed Dr. Houston's company regarding this issue with Daniel, seeming to have a reaction to the No-Phenol. I got almost immediate reply back including from Dr. Houston. I was very impressed!

 

I also called my Naturopathic Doctor and she said when taking enzymes at first you are going to see reactions. It is the toxins leaving the body and your body having to adjust to this process. So the increase in tics did not surprise her. She said if this all keeps up for a while then I need to go back to see her.

 

Anyhow, I just did not want to discourage anybody from using the product. I think it will really help my son out after his digestive track gets "cleaned out and healed". But I think the key is slow and easy!

 

Carolyn N.

[patty]

Carolyn N.

 

Thx for the update. Do you notice an immediatel decrease in tics when you decreased the enzymes? As i have mentioned, my son was on enzymes for about 10 days, and he had an acute case of tics. I stopped the enzyme immediately and it didn't improve. In fact, more tics developed. I don't know for sure if the enzymes was responsbile, but that is all he was taking at the time. Before, the enzymes, i didn't notice tics, if any perhap mild & infrequent.

 

I am glad that you son is doing well when you adjust the dosage.

 

Pat

[patty]

Carolyn N.

 

Thx for the update. Do you notice an immediatel decrease in tics when you decreased the enzymes? As i have mentioned, my son was on enzymes for about 10 days, and he had an acute case of tics. I stopped the enzyme immediately and it didn't improve. In fact, more tics developed. I don't know for sure if the enzymes was responsbile, but that is all he was taking at the time. Before, the enzymes, i didn't notice tics, if any perhap mild & infrequent.

 

I am glad that you son is doing well when you adjust the dosage.

 

Pat

[faith]

Carolyn,

Was the enzyme in question just the "No Phenol" or the other ones too (zyne prime and peptizide)? I mean was it just the "no phenol" one that seemed to cause the increase?

 

 

Also, I wanted to add my recent observation with my son. He was doing well with minimal vocals last couple of weeks, I attribute this to tightening up on dairy wich seemed to spike his vocal after he had some ice cream, cheese, and alot of white bread last week. Yesterday I was noticing some more vocals spiking and started thinking, and for the second time I have noted blueberries! I mentioned this a few weeks ago that this was a suspicion of mine. And day before yesterday he had some again. I was dumb to give it to him but wasn't yet convinced it was a problem, but now? So Carolyn, any ideas how these blueberries fit into the problem? They are phenol or salicylate, right? I am really paying close attention to your posts and how you are putting all the info together regarding the PST sulfation system, etc. Thank you heaps for taking the time to inform us of your research!

 

Faith

[CarolynN]

Pat,

 

I would say I say a fairly immediate decrease when we decreased the enzymes. But what is hard to say is I am also doing the Benadryl and giving Epsom Salts Baths (which I had never done before). All this timed at the same point. This is the problem when you throw lots a things at a child at once to fix something. It is difficult to exactly say how each product is specifically addressing a problem. I do know the Benadryl seemed to help calm him down a lot too.

 

But I do have to say I really think Daniel has got something major going on in his intestines, like candida. The enzymes and probiotics should help him. I would love to put him on Candida Clear by Now, that Chemar uses (I have used it for myself and it is great stuff, thx's again Chemar for the great advice). I just would want to discuss it with his doctor prior to putting him on it since I have him on so many other supplements.

 

I was thinking about why your son's tics increased at first and it makes sense to me that the enzymes probably were contending with some sort of bacterial overgrowth. But it is possible, if you look at the ingredients, , that they could of contained saliylates, because some enzymes contain these (some enzymes are derived from a fruit base, like pineapple). Your son might be sensitive to saliylates and so he did not respond well to the enzymes. So my thought is perhaps it was a reaction to what was in the enzyme itself. I know there are enzymes that do not contain saliylates by certain companies, but of course I cannot remember where I came across this information. If I can find the name of the company I will post it. There is of course the No-Phenol which helps address saliylates by themselves (this is the purpose of the product) but what I am referring to is other enzymes to help process other foods like proteins.

 

What is certainly confusing is why his body did not recover after stopping the enzymes. I just wonder if the enzymes did not start addressing a problem in his system and then when you stopped perhaps whatever he has going on just got an upper hand. I have no idea. Has he been tested for candida?

 

Also Patty what brand of enzymes was he using?

 

 

Carolyn N.

[CarolynN]

Faith,

 

Daniel is using both the No-Fenol and an enzyme his doctor gave him called Similase Jr. The doctor told me to give him one Similase Jr. prior to eating protein. But I am just giving him one in the morning and one at night because of the increase in tics. It was with in about 40 minutes of taking the No-Phenol, for the second dose, that he had this huge upswing in tics so I attributed the upswing to the No-Phenol. But he seems to be tolerating it at the lower dose so I will work its way up (1/8 capsule once a day).

 

As everyone on this forum knows the frustrating thing with trying to figure out what is triggering tics is our environments and foods change continually. So to truly try to pinpoint can be difficult but it seems awefully coincidental that it was right after the No-Fenol we saw this reaction.

 

Just to recap for someone who might be reading this for the first time and trying to understand what terms are being used when I refer to salicylates and phenols they are one in the same.

 

Faith it does sound like your son could be sensitive to Salicylates. Here is a couple of websites for your to read. Blueberries happens to have on of the highest contents of salicylates http://www.zipworld.com.au/~ataraxy/Salicylates_list.html also this web site was helpful http://www.danasview.net/phenol.htm .

 

What I find interesting with the milk, I have read so much this couple weeks and cannot remember where I saw this, but from what I remember people sensitive to salicylates/phenols and MSG can react to "low-fat" milk products. It is because of something they have to do to change the milk product to the lower levels of fat. The more a food is processed the more it changes the molecular structure. So the point was, in this article, giving milk that is not reduced in fat but regular milk may make a difference. But it is also possible he is just plain sensitive to milk itself. This would also include not eating lowfat cheeses or yogurt, etc.

 

Faith, this post really caught my interest http://www.latitudes.org/forums/index.php?...amp;mode=linear read the second post on this link. It was the first part that really caught my interest regarding MSG and salicylates needing to go through the same process to rid themselves out of the body.

 

If it really does seem that it is salicylates being a big problem for your son your probably want to try the Feingold Diet. The whole purpose of this "diet" is to get salicylates out of your body. Also Epsom Salts baths would help too.

 

This article really helps explain the process of the PST system of the body. When someone has problems with salicylates or chemical foods it is called PST intolerance http://www.newtreatments.org/fromweb/sulfur.html . It takes a lot to get through this articile because it is very complicated but once you do you will learn A LOT. The article, at the end, suggest ways to help out your sulfation system and this is what I will be trying to get to the bottom of for my son. I am going to make an appointment with a doctor I think might be able to give me some answers. Once I have the appointment I will post what he tells me.

 

Carolyn N.

[CarolynN]

Faith,

 

I forgot to mention, although you probably know, the No-Phenol product by Dr. Houston was designed just for people with problems with salicylates. So this could help your son out. Just slow and easy remember.

 

 

Faith, I think you should get the book "Enzymes for Autism and other Neurological Conditions" by Karen DeFelice. It really is very good and has helped many people understand how all this works together!

 

Carolyn N.

[CarolynN]

Patty,

 

I found the name of the enzyme company that does not use fruit derived enzymes for those people sensitive to fruit but need enzymes to help with processing proteins, etc. The company is called Enzymedica. I found this in the book I keeping referencing "Enzymes for autism and other Neurological Conditions".

 

Carolyn N.

[gfam]

Carolyn,

How is it coming with the No-Phenol?

Thanks!

Donna

[CarolynN]

Hello,

 

I am so sorry to not have responded sooner. I have not been following the boards very closely the last few months. But I did responded to you on the other post you did.

 

The long and short of it is it really does seem to be helping him. By no means has the No-Phenol been a problem since the orginal few days when his body seemed to have that initial reaction. I just cut back how much I gave him, started at 1/4 capsule and then worked my way up. That seemed to be the trick.

 

Have a great week

 

Carolyn