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CarolynN

Could this be a big part of the picture for some tics?

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Faith,

 

Thanks for your encouragement!

 

In regard to the enzymes for your child from Dr. Houston I just have to wonder if he was not just experiencing the "die off effect of candida". This can certainly make matters worse. I know the enzymes attack candida and if you kill candida off too quick you can get some yucky symptoms. So perhaps you need to start him on a smaller quantity of the enzymes and work up to the normal doseage.

 

In regard to the Benadryl, I have given it two nights in a row. I have to tell you he has been almost tic free this afternoon. It has been in the afternoon's, the past few weeks, where his tics are the highest. I am just praising God right now!!!! So where I am going with this is until I can get the enzymes built up in his system I may need to the Benadryl to lower his histamine. I will only use it before bed because I know it will make him tired.

 

I also wanted to add that it was mentioned by C.P. earlier in the dialogue that perhaps the reason tics naturally tend to decrease with age is it actually due to people growing out of their allergies . So I am guessing the histamine level of the body is coming down as people get older. Perhaps it is due to our bodies having more of these sulfate ions as our bodies mature? Again less histamine less tics. Also I read on one website that children are 4 times more sensitive to MSG then adults!

 

Also I am wondering, at the tic peak ages of 10, is this the time of life when histamine just happens to be high in the body and low in thes sulfate ions anyway due to pre-puberty changes going on?

 

I read on one website that children need more of one of the B vitamins at pre-puberty. So this could explain that their bodies are getting drained of the B's, due to a higher need at this age, and hence again sets them up for more tics (all just theories but it could just be!!!)

 

Carolyn N.

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okay, about the age 10 and tics -- my suspicions lie with the vaccines gotten around that time? The vaxes are toxins too, right, and maybe this just adds to the problem. Does this sort of fit into the theory?

 

 

Faith

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Faith,

 

It certainly could. It would be interesting if anyone on the forum, whose child has tics but choose not to vaccinate around this age, noticed any increases in tics. This might be some insight into your theory. Perhaps someone can share if they have had this experience.

 

Carolyn N.

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Patty,

 

Thank you for your terrific information. I think what you have done for your child is amazing. Your information, I am sure, will help others understand what they can do.

 

Thanks,

 

Carolyn

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Faith,

 

I wanted to throw out one other thought as to why the enzymes seemed to possibily increase tics in your son. Lets assume he did not have candida and that part is out of the picture.

 

I know that enzymes will help you absorb more from your vitamins. Is it possible your child was absorbing too much of lets say, a B type vitamin, and was giving him a reaction from having too much of a supplement?

 

I know as the enzymes build up in Daniel's system this is something I am going to have to be aware of or else he might be getting more then he will need. My thought again is some of our children are needing higher levels of these vitamins, compared to other children, because they are simply not processing them due to the lack of enzymes.

 

Carolyn N.

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Carolyn,

Just a point out that I didn't pinpoint the enzymes as a reason for the increase, as he already was eye twitching again before I started the enzymes (which was probably one of the reasons I thought it was time to try them in the first place!). So what I mean is, at the time (I believe Thanksgiving weekend), I just decided to stop "trying this, and trying that". I couldn't figure out if anything was going on or this was just a natural cycle that I had to let pass. So I decided to just sort of start over, just keeping in the essentials. He did wane on that quickly tho.

 

But to your question of the absorbtion of B -- may be something there, because some time ago (and I did have this on the board), I was suspicious of B's for him, in that he seems to do better when on "low" b or "no" b's. So let's just say I don't do B's right now. But what you said could very well BE. :P

 

Re the vaccines, lets just say I have read enough posts here to believe that it could definitely be "part" of the problem. I only know of one parent off the top of my head that doesn't vax, I believe it was BeckyG, and I think she has more than one child of that age, although can't remember specifically if there was waxing or waning at that age period. I really gotta start taking notes..

Faith

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Faith, Do you vaxinate? I am still debating this decision as I would love to not, but I don't know the process. Have you seen any increase in tics after a vaxination?

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I'm in the process of figuring out how to get my youngest into school without vaccines. The only thing I have written down in our state is, a Family history of vaccine reaction, severe allergies, autoimmune or neurological disorders. So does this sound like I could go after a medical exemption because of the family history of a neurological disorder (TS). I am worried how hard this will be. She will have to get dtap and chix pox to enter the 6th grade. I'm willing to homeschool her until highschool if I need to get her through the puberty years.

 

I'm with you Faith, BAD BAD vaccines. (scull and crossbones icon) :P

C.P.

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bmom,

my son is almost nine and is currently up to date on required vaccines. His last ones were the ones before kindergarten starts. To your question about seeing an increase after vaccines, I won't say immediately after, as in the next day or next month, but I'm looking at the "time frame", for who knows exactly what the toll is on them and how long it takes to show the repurcussions, if you understand what I mean? I would say summer after kindergarten is when I noticed his vocal sounds starting. We've come so far now, and this year its definitely less noticeable, however still there, so my feeling is maybe the farther away you get from the last vax, (other factors out of the equation) the better?

 

Our DAN doctor said I could request the titer test to see if he was still immune and basically said not to vax, although I didn't talk thouroughly with him about it. My feeling is I will not, and will look up the way to get around it. That is just my stand on it, and for all I know I could be dead wrong, but I don't mind telling what I think I'm going to do. Again, totally my opinion, for everyone must come to their own conclusion regarding their own child and their situation.

 

C.P., your experience with your son stands out most in my mind regarding the timing of the vax, so you certainly have reason to forego should anyone question you, but I would start looking now on how to do that and get everything in order way before then, as there may be quite a bit of red tape.

 

 

Faith

 

P.S. we are getting such quick responses back and forth today, is everyone else sick in bed with their laptop glued to their thighs too!! (Getting over heavy flu and bronchitis)

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Have you tried the benadryl since? Did it take the tics away (if you did)

 

 

 

Hello,

 

I want to share something with you I have been researching for the past few weeks on the internet that may be beneficial in trying to understand the ultimate cause for some peoples tics. I wanted to post this to see if anyone has any thoughts as to why or why not what I found would or would not work to decrease tics. I just really want to help my son and others, who are experiencing tics, so any additional information would be great. I certainly do not want to create a false sense of hope either but I was really excited in finding this information. So here it is.

 

My son Daniel, as many of you already know, has both vocal and motor tics and has since he was 3 he is now 7. He is triggered by artificial food dyes (especially yellow dye), high fructose corn syrup, MSG, and caramel color. The question that I have had in the back of my mind, for a long time, is what ultimately is making Daniel sensitive to these chemical foods especially MSG?

 

I am going to be sharing a lot of information with you and I will include the links that led me from one point to another (I also want to quickly mention I have not been able to figure out how to get the spell check to work on this post so please forgive any misspellings). This is not exactly easy for me to explain but please hang in there with me. I have to say I am only a layperson but I have spent many, many hours reading materials regarding Tourettes and Tics.

 

My understanding now is Daniel's tics may directly related to the lack of something called "sulfate ions" which in turn is creating a higher amount of histamine in his body. What I found out is that histamine is actually a neurotransmitter. So when you have more histamine in your body you have more of this neurotransmitter which ultimately effects the nervous system http://www.raysahelian.com/neurotransmitter.html .

 

Last night I tested this theory out. I don't know if you read in a previous post, but I accidentally gave Daniel MSG and also let him have way too many treats over Christmas. He has been experiencing a high level of tics for him. Well his body started coming down from it but it never rebounded completely. He did have some foods that I could explain why he would still be having tics but his tics have been at a higher level then I expected (including saying something like "berverba" over and over). So I thought if it is the histamine being too elevated, in theory, an antihistamine would bring him back in line. So before he went to bed I gave him Benadryl with no dyes (he has never had Benadryl before).

 

We always have to get Daniel up around 12 p.m. to go to the bathroom, or else he wets his bed. When he is "ticcing" he ALWAYS tics during this time when we get him. I forgot I gave him the Benadryl until I realized when I laid him back in bed I had not heard a peep from him nor did I notice any motor tics. I then, literally, held my breath when he got up this morning to see if he would have any. He did not have one until about 40 minutes after eating his breakfast. I cannot tell you how excited I was. I found this post regarding a mother who also noticed a decrease in tics after Benadryl http://www.latitudes.org/forums/index.php?...p;mode=threaded .

 

So this afternoon his tics were greatly decreased, from prior days, and what is interesting is he is getting a cold. This always increases tics in him. They also had a party at school and he had some items like marshmallows, some colored cereal, and few pieces of colored candy. So I was still excited this afternoon to see his tics still decreased (As a side note, I know some children can get hyper from Benadryl so perhaps in that case it might cause problems for some?)

 

Now I am going to explain, as best I can, what seems to be the ultimate problem at hand for Daniel and his chemical sensitivity with foods. I got this information from a posting off of Latitudes from a few years ago http://www.latitudes.org/forums/index.php?...amp;mode=linear . Everyone's bodies have something called sulfate ions. These sulfate ions are key to detoxify the body. When you read the post you will see and I quote "The PST sulfation pathway is necessary for the breakdown and removal of certain toxins in the body. This includes the processing of a type of chemical called phenol." It goes on to say "if the sulfation pathway is not functioning well the person may not be able to process out the phenolic compounds as fast as they consume them. There is a CUMULATIVE EFFECT. When the phenols start backing up in the system, it can cause a myriad of negative effects." (quick side note, I read Epsom Salt baths help with the process of removing these toxins the post explains this real well)

 

This is the most key part to me. Again from the same post above "The detoxification pathway processes other phenolic compounds including salcylates, artificial food colorings and some food colorings" . So in other words, without the sulfate ions working correctly the body cannot detox itself from the chemical foods Daniel is sensitive too.

 

What I am picturing in my head is this. When I allow Daniel to have more treats then normal, like Christmas, what is happening is I am overtaxing his already low, sulfate ions, which in turn cannot process out the toxins. So now his system is in overload and has no way to take out the toxins it needs too including the toxins that naturally occur in vegetables, fruit, milk etc. So even though Daniel is not "allergic" to these foods like milk, vegetable and fruit he longer can process the toxins out of these foods creating a more toxic environment. Then lets say he goes to a birthday party and eats icing with artificial dyes he is going to have an even bigger problem because his overtaxed sulfate ions have no way of process out the toxins and hence he has higher levels of histamine. As I mentioned prior, the histamines are a neurotransmitter and will ultimately affect the nervous system.

 

Now comes the next part of the picture. There is a man, many of you may be familiar, named Dr. William Shaw. He is part of the Pfeiffer Treatment Center.. He explains in in this interview with Shelia Rodgers his theory about Tourettes and people with Tourettes tend to have a high histamine issue, or what her refers to as undermethylation http://www.hriptc.org/latitudes.pdf . The undermethylation is very confusing but I found this website to be useful http://www.enzymestuff.com/methylation.htm .

 

This is the part what I found very fascinating. If you look at the list of things Daniel is sensitive too most of them fall under one category they are all naturally high in histamines themselves even before you consume them http://sun1.awardspace.com/Conditions/Sola...tamine_diet.htm . So here I have a son who is naturally high in histamines now adding more histamine into his body from foods and chemical foods. So he is getting more and more histamine in his system that ultimately effects the nervous system.

 

I have a friend of mine whose son is autistic. She has done everything for him completely taking gluten out of his diet, vitamin therapy, amino acids, etc. She saw success from doing these things but kept seeking answers for him. She recently started going to the same doctor I go to, for Daniel, to do the treatment similar to NAET that I have posted. The doctor told her to put her son on digestive enzymes. My friend said she cannot believe the difference in her son since being on the enzymes. She said it has freed him up to eat so many things he could not eat before. She still keeps him off gluten though. (I found this book which I have not read but have ordered called "Enzymes for Autism and Other Neurological Disorders by Karen DeFelice"). My doctor had tested Daniel and said he needs to be on enzymes, too, because he is not digesting proteins well.

 

My friend told me about a doctor who has dedicated his career to developing enzymes his name is Dr. Houston. Dr. Houston has an enzyme product called No-Phenol. The No-Phenol breaks down the "toxins" in the foods including artificial foods and also salicylate food (vegetables and fruits). They also have enzymes to help with proteins (milk included) and carbohydrates. Anyhow I contacted the company by e-mail, and I found them very helpful in answering my questions. I will be starting Daniel on these enzymes as soon as I get them. I also think I will be putting him on an enzyme to help break down proteins. Here is the link http://www.houstonni.com/ . They also have a great Q&A section on the website.

 

In regard to the enzymes, a few things I learned that once you start taking enzymes you start digesting your vitamins more efficiently and ultimately you may have to back off on how many vitamins you are giving because more is being absorbed into the body. Also I learned you can experience a die off effect from the enzymes because they kill candida. So if you do not start gradually, you could actually get worse before you get better due to the die off effect of the candida. I also learned that it takes time to see the ultimate results of the enzymes. They can take up a month to build up in the system. Enzymes, are in general according to my doctor, a very beneficial thing for anyone to take.

 

***(Please note update-I wanted to come in and update on this post due tell you of the reaction I think my son is experiencing from the No-Phenol. We started the no-phenol yesterday. His tics have just sky rocketed. I really think he is experiencing a candida die off reaction. I just learned, through searching on the internet that No-Phenol is very effective in killing off yeast and also other enzymes can too. With his sulfate ions lacking I am assuming his body is having a hard time getting rid of the toxins from the die off. I gave him 1/2 a capsule yesterday and today. So I need to cut way back and allow his body to take this in very slowly. I am assuming once we get beyond the die off reaction we will start seeing the results.)****

 

Also it is very important for you to realize that pro-biotics are not enzymes. They have two different functions. Here is a link that explains the difference. You just need to scroll down about halfway on the link and look in the right hand column and it explains it http://heartspring.net/probiotics_enzymes_...stion.html#diff . From what I am understanding, both probiotics and enzymes would be very beneficial together for the intestinal system.

 

So what I am starting to wonder is the reason our children or ourselves need such high levels of B vitamins and other vitamins because they are not ultimately getting absorbed due to lack of enzymes? So by getting the body balanced better through the enzymes would allow the body to absorb more nutrients directly from food and also from the vitamins.

 

Now a few last things to mention about my son's situation. Daniel is on Bonnie Grimaldi's Ts-Plus (10 capsules a day), glycine (an amino acid), Gaba, and Omega 3. I don't believe Daniel has a metal issue or candida issue. So my point is this perhaps the only thing left to clear his system of tics was getting rid of the additional histamine. In another persons case perhaps if heavy metals are still a problem just getting the histamine back in balance might not be enough (I am absolutely theorizing I have no idea). I also don't know how this would all work with someone with PANDA's since PANDA's is related to a bacterial strep infection.

 

One way or another I feel like I am starting to get a better feeling on ultimately what is going on with his body. I am looking at it like this. If you build your house on sand you are not going to have a strong foundation. In terms of Daniels body, if he does not have enough enzymes to help process the toxins it is ultimately going to create problems within the body. Perhaps, some and I am not saying all, people experiencing tics it is simply the way the body is showing its allergy through the increase in histamine due to the lack of enzymes and also being deficient in certain nutrient like the B vitamins and magnesium.

 

I got thinking about this post http://www.latitudes.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=2329 because I read it a while back and it was in the back of my mind why did he stop having tics while sick with the stomach bug. Well I just wonder if it because his histamine level was lowered due to no foods entering in his system.

 

I also remember another post, I could not find it, of a mother that when she gave her child high levels of vitamin C his tics went away. Well vitamin C is a natural way to lower histamine and so is magnesium.

 

I thought you might find this interesting. I found this posting from a man who suffered from migraines for 20 years and finally came to understand that he could not tolerate a high histamine food diet and he also explains how MSG would play into this. He also talks about a lack of enzyme being involved http://www.migrainepage.com/dcforum/discussion/14166.html .

 

This article is very interesting regarding people who cannot tolerate chemical foods also states it is due to lack of enzymes http://www.plantpoisonsandrottenstuff.info...troduction.aspx .

 

Again any thoughts or new directions I could follow I would so greatly appreciate. By no means am I saying I am 100% accurate in what I am conveying nor am I, as earlier stated, trying to create false hope. From what I learned, with the information I have so far, it seems to be somewhat plausible theory. Perhaps I am misunderstanding something or Daniel's no tics this morning and decreased tics this afternoon was just purely a coincidence but I can tell you I have not had a tic free morning, with him, since prior to the beginning of December (all the fun treats around Christmas and going out to eat more then we should!).

 

I am passing this information along to see if we, as a forum, can come up with some more answers as to what might be an underlying cause. Also PLEASE feel free to correct me if I was wrong in any of the information I just passed along. I certainly do not want to convey incorrect information to people who are seeking answers to what can be such a stressful situation.

 

I am going to keep praying for answers. I have learned one thing in my life God is faithful! I may not understand his timing always, or why things happen, but he has always guided me. I am so thankful for Him.

 

I think I will try to go to bed now. This is my third night in a row up until 2 a.m. My husband calls me the "bulldog". When I get focused in on something I just don't stop until I understand it. My OCD, that I have since I was around 7, is actually helping my son out. Isn't that funny something that plagued me for so long could actually be a benefit!

 

Carolyn N.

 

[i]John 3:16 "For God so loved the world he sent His one and only Son that whoever shall believe in Him shall not perish but have ever lasting life" [/i]

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Mom2three,

 

I have given Daniel more Benadryl, at night time only, and it really does seem to reduce his tics the next day. I know Chemar's son did have reaction to anti-histamine so if you have not used it on your child before you might not want to give the full dose at first to make sure it can be tolerated.

 

I also started giving Daniel vitamin C three times a day in 250 mg doses (total of 750 mg). The reason I am doing this is vitamin C helps keep histamine down.

 

I wanted to suggest to you a book, if you did not see it earlier in my post, and it is called "Enzymes for Autism and other Neurological Conditions" by Karen DeFelice. I ordered my book used, I think off of Amazon, and it was not too much. But it is a great read. I am really learning a lot from it. I think you would too and it could really help you understand how enzymes could be used to treat your child.

 

She touches on this book the sulfation system in the body that I reference in my first post on this link (you will see it referenced as PST and also sulfate ions) I have to say the more I study about PST intolerance the more I am convinced this is indeed the core of Daniel's issue.

 

This link I have attached, thanks to a post by Kim, really helped me understand more about PST intolerance. It is complicated but if you print it off and go over it several times you will start understanding it http://www.newtreatments.org/fromweb/sulfur.html[/url] . I am bound and determined to get the root of how to improve that system in the body. What I learned from this article is, the sulfation system of the body, not only filters out toxins and excess histamine, but it also filters out excess DOPAMINE. So when the system gets out of whack it cannot keep up with what it needs to do with keeping the dopamine in check. Too much dopamine is believed to be the root of the issue, in the brain, with tourettes. Also I learned this system filters out excess hormones. I was thinking, in regard to the tics peaking at age 9-11 area, is it because the hormones are getting going and this system of the body is having to try to keep up with this extra demand on it. So hence it is being overtaxed even further?

 

Another very interesting thing is, and this is a huge issue for so many with tourettes, is the toxins from the candida choke this sulfation system greatly. So if you have candida you are over taxing this system of the body that needs to "clean out" other toxins from your body including from our food and environment. So basically the candida toxins are taking up space in this system that will make it dysfunctional. All this back up with the toxins again will not regulate the dopamine or your histamines correctly. This is why it is so important to get candida under control and hopefully keep it under control.

 

I also learned, from the same article, that chlorinated water, like when you go swimming, is very hard on this system of the body. It really knocks down the sulfate ions needed to process toxins. So the doctor, who wrote the article, suggest epsom salts bath right after getting out of the pool. She also stresses the importance of not bathing in water that has high chlorine levels and she suggest ways around that if your tap water is high in it. I remember Chemar's son has problems with chlorine I wonder how many other people have noticed this? If you read the whole articile it is recommended to buy something called the "Showerwise" to help filter out excess chlorine in taking showers.

 

Also Tylenol is VERY hard on this system of the body. I can't remember exactly what she said but I am pretty sure she states it completely wipes out all the sulfate ions for a period of time.

 

In the book I mentioned above by Leslie DeFlice she highly recommends epsom salts baths (2 cups in a bath) because it really helps the body remove toxins when the sulfation system of the body is not working correctly. It is a way to really help boost this system of the body.

 

Leslie DeFelice also says you can make homemade lotion with Epsom salts. I quote from her book "this is my favorite at the moment. Heat some epsom salts with a little water to dissolve them. I put about one teaspoon of water in three tablespoons of salts and microwave for a minute or so. Add more water if necessary. Then mix this into around four ounces of any lotion or cream you like. I have used suntan lotion, handcream, cocoa butter, body lotion, aloe vera cream, whatever I find that is on sale or inexpensive without the chemcials I am trying to avoid. Apply to skin anywhere as often as desired." The book also says that "because the sulfur is already in sulfate form it does not need to be converted like other forms of sulfur do. Sulfate is thought to circulate in the body up to about nine hours. Any Epsom salts left on the skin may continue to be absorbed as long as it is still on the skin, offering continuous "timed-released" input into the bloodstream-like medicatins given through skin patches".

 

If you do decide to do the enzymes I would just personally recommend starting out very slow. I don't know if you read my post but my son had a dramatic increase in tics after starting one of them. I believe I gave him too much and his body was dealing with a "die-off" reaction to candida. Meaning the enzymes were doing a great job by killing off unwanted bacteria in the gut but in the midst of that "die-off" toxins are released. I believe my son's sulfation system, as discussed above, could not keep up with these toxins. So I backed off and just going ever so slowly and building him up. I read other forums where other mom's did the same because of "reactions". But it really is all a good thing because you realize there is something that needs to be contended with and the enzymes are getting the job done. It is just getting through that initial time period. My naturopathic doctor also told me there is an adjustment period at first when getting on enzymes and to expect this.

 

Well I hope this helps some. Have a blessed and great day!

 

Carolyn N.

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Looks like it's been a while since there were posts on this thread. I'm coming to the same conclusion about my TS being related to sulfation. Carolyn, do you have any update to share regarding the progress with Daniel?

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Hello,

 

Thanks for checking in about Daniel. I actually have done several updates since that original post. Here the last posting I did and it will also have other links within it to other updates I have done http://www.latitudes.org/forums/index.php?...ic=4194&hl= .

 

Overall, Daniel is doing real well on the supplements I have him on now. The main issue we have with him is it just is a whole lot of vitamins to get into an 8 year old boy. But he has been a real sport about it, recently, and he is starting to take his own health into consideration. So it is getting easier for him to understand why we are doing all this. Whereas, three years ago when he was 5, it was much more difficult.

 

One other thing that is in the above link but I wanted to again mention is I truly do see a difference in Daniel in using the Epsom Salts when his tics are going. It takes about a couple hours to see the reduction after the Epsom Salts bath or Cream has been applied. But it certainly does help settle down his system. Again it all goes back to sulfation because the epsom salts are helping that process of the body. But if you are not taking the epsom salts baths, which is 2 cups of epsoms salts in a tub of water and soak for at least 20 minutes I would highly recommend it. Also the Epsom Salts Cream by Kirkman (they call it Magnesium Sulfate Cream) works well. But I would say overall I have seen better results with the baths. You can even do the baths 2 times a day when the tics are peaking.

 

Also drinking a lot of water seems to really help him a lot too. So these are some simple things to help the sulfation process out. But you will see, by reading the above links. I have added some other products in that have greatly helped him.

 

Let me know if you have any questions after reading the above link. Have a great evening.

 

Carolyn

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It is late at night and I should be in bed, so I read this VERY quickly.....but I keep seeing the word toxins.....I am trying to figure out how it is that my son's tics disappeared over the last two weeks......we did 3 or 4 weeks of cupping once a week and then one accupunture treatment. When we moved on to accupuncture, the Dr said that the cupping is more for detox and the accupunture would help more with his focus......could the cupping sessions have had that big of result???? He has been tic free for two weeks and has not had any supplements in that two weeks....this is a first for us in 20 months!

 

Thanks

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Tracy,

 

How awesome you have seen such great results. I have not read up at all on cupping. I have seen it on the forum periodically but I just am not informed to know exactly what it does. But wow it sounds like it really did a great job. I hope the results keep up for you.

 

Have a great evening!

 

Carolyn

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