Insurance requirement/vaccinations

[dut]

S&S - indeed, why not! You could be a PANStheist instead of a pantheist

[lfran]

I believe you can still have a personal belief exemption in California but a health care provider has to sign that they counseled you first regarding risks and benefits.

[tpotter]

Do you know how many people were threatened with their jobs if they didn't get the flu vaccine? I know of several working in nursing homes and hospitals! This is the same flu that was only "55% effective" (although how one can determine 55%, when that is pure chance anyway...if I get the vaccine or don't get the vaccine, I have a 50% chance of getting it or not getting it anyway.)

 

This is the same vaccine that there was day or so of reports that it was only 55% effective, because it was the wrong strain, but then we all stopped hearing about it, probably because all these pharmacies has boatloads of pre-paid vaccines in their possession, didn't want to lose all the money, and were protected from being sued, anyway, because they were told by the government and the CDC, and the manufacturers that they were safe.

 

 

Very scary.

[tpotter]

LLM, you could sign the religion waiver, and do what you want- no need to follow up and tell them you got DS a tetanus booster if you decide to do it.

 

Now that CA has removed personal exemption waiver, and replaced it with religion waiver, it has got me thinking.

Can a school staff person really quiz you on your religion? What is the definition of a religion, but a set a personally held convictions and beliefs?

I am envisioning a conversation like this:

'Mrs. X, I see you have signed a religious exemption form. Could you state the name of that religion?'

'PANS. It's called PANS.'

'I'm sorry, excuse me?'

'PANS. Like pots and pans. PANS. It is a higher power that has ruled my life, and in fact, I've tithed my entire savings account over to it.'

 

 

(sorry, kind of losing it)

 

 

Oh...this is just too funny!!! Love it, love it, love it. Kind of like the "SOT" ("S**t on Toast") thread we had a few years ago.

[EAMom]

I believe you can still have a personal belief exemption in California but a health care provider has to sign that they counseled you first regarding risks and benefits.

 

It looks like the law changes in 2014

 

"Alert: California Vaccine Exemptions

California AB2109 has been signed into law and takes effect January 1, 2014.

At that time, parents must pay for a Dr. Appointment to TRY to Obtain a Personal Belief Exemption"

 

http://vaccinetruth.net/exempt/california.htm

[LNN]

Mama2 - good idea on checking titers. I'll have to ask LLMD if he'll do that for us.

Reactive - my hesitation on meningitis more than the other vax is that I don't like the idea of inducing an immune response to anything involving the menages. Too close to home. Nothing based on science. Just my knee jerk reaction. Plus, my kids had all their vaccines until the age of 6 and did "fine". Pandas didn't hit until vaccines were over. So a Tdap booster worries me less only because we survived the same vacc before (at least, it doesn't seem to be related to any of our issues but I'll never know). The meningitis vacc on the other hand is both an unknown and directed at immunity and the brain. Just gives me a bad feeling. Nothing based on "facts".

 

S&S - love your imagined conversation. I didn't realize we belonged to the same religion! I've figured that if I end up taking the religious exemption (they are not allowed to quiz you) - I'd say I was a Unitarian. But I like your answer better.

[landamom]

As of now they can't ask your religion or anything related to religion... dd has a religious exemption AT a Christian school but things change quickly these days so who knows what the future holds for anything related to healthcare.

[PowPow]

S&S - indeed, why not! You could be a PANStheist instead of a pantheist

LOVE IT, dut.

Thanks for the laugh on this snowy, bad PANS day:)

[911RN]

'Mrs. X, I see you have signed a religious exemption form. Could you state the name of that religion?'

'PANS. It's called PANS.'

'I'm sorry, excuse me?'

'PANS. Like pots and pans. PANS. It is a higher power that has ruled my life, and in fact, I've tithed my entire savings account over to it.'

 

 

(sorry, kind of losing it)

 

 

You may have been losing it but I was loving it! Thanks for my out loud chuckle of the day My issue is not so much an anti vaccine stance. My children are fully immunized. Mine is a "this is America (or,at least, it used to be) and I have free will and free choice to do with my body what I choose." Or, in the case of my children...if I have to sign consent then I must give informed consent. And, if my informed consent told me NOT to do it then that is my free choice to do so. When signing any consent- there are risks- or else, you not be signing consent in the first place!!

 

I have always been vaccinated for flu for years as a nurse. I work in an ER...I have constant exposure all winter. Anyway, the years I did not get flu vaccine- I got the flu. Years I did- no flu. It was a no brainer. I have no issues with the vax, I don't want to be sick with the flu for a week. Once you have ever had real influenza- you really don't want it again. At least, I don't!

 

This year, they made the vax mandatory for all employees. Only exemptions were medical for allergy/disease process and few religious. These exemptions had to go through a panel for approval and not all were approved. If not approved and did not get flu vax- you were terminated.

 

As I said I get flu vax each year without issue... voluntarily! But, I actually had a problem with being MADE to get it. This is a self rights/free choice/free will issue with me. Call me a Libertarian or whatever term fits. I'm paying welfare/food stamps/disability/Medicaid for heroin addicts that "chooses" to inject themselves with an addictive, dangerous drug and comes to the ER with the flu. Meanwhile, I will lose my job if I don't "choose" to get a mandatory flu vax to "protect the health of our patients." Yeah, right. Where's my free choice??

 

As for any religious exemption for my child...we follow the Church of Ticology (instead of Theology:)

[JAG10]

911RN- question for you.....

I work in an elementary school- high risk environment like you. I chose to get vaccinated for flu for many years. The past two years, I have not....and I got the flu the past two years. So, I am considering making a different decision next year. But then I consider the 62 year old 4th gr teacher down the hall from me who got the flu shot this year and got the flu way worse than I did with atypical symptoms....heart palpitations and sick for 3 weeks!!! I'm sure partly due to her age, but I read that especially older folks are more susceptible with the wrong strain flu shot than no shot at all. Do you know anything about the complications of when "they" get the strain wrong?

 

 

[911RN]

911RN- question for you.....

I work in an elementary school- high risk environment like you. I chose to get vaccinated for flu for many years. The past two years, I have not....and I got the flu the past two years. So, I am considering making a different decision next year. But then I consider the 62 year old 4th gr teacher down the hall from me who got the flu shot this year and got the flu way worse than I did with atypical symptoms....heart palpitations and sick for 3 weeks!!! I'm sure partly due to her age, but I read that especially older folks are more susceptible with the wrong strain flu shot than no shot at all. Do you know anything about the complications of when "they" get the strain wrong?

 

Flu vaccines are manufactured on a "best guess" scenario each year by the CDC and WHO. They study the strains that are prevalent around the world and put the strains they think are going to be around in the current year vaccine. It takes a long time to grow viral cultures in the egg agar to manufacture enough vaccines for folks so they have to do this 6+ months or so ahead of when the vaccines will be needed. Mostly, they get it right but sometimes new strains arrive that can make the current year vaccine less effective for certain people for certain strains of influenza. That's what happened with the H1N1 several years ago and why they offered a separate vaccine for just THAT the year that happened. It was a very virulent strain and it was killing the young and the old in record numbers.

 

There is mounting data that people that have obtained the flu vax year after year somewhat "protect" themselves better during the years that the flu vax is "wrong" since they may have been immunized in previous years against the particular strain that may be rearing its' ugly head this year. Even if the viral strain is a bit mutated...which, they tend to do over time. Viruses are smart and mutate to overcome our body defenses against it. If you have been immunized against a particular strain in previous years...your body recognizes it during an exposure and essentially you have immunity. Your body mounts the appropriate immune response. If the virus has mutated a bit---body still recognizes some of the core components of the virus and tries to ward it off. You may feel a little under the weather but seldom succumb to a flu blown influenza illness.

 

Without knowing more on your fellow teacher...there are many factors to developing immunity to a vaccine. ANY vaccine, not just flu.Did she get sick after the flu vaccine or she got vax and later caught the flu, anyway, with atypical symptoms? If the former then she had a huge immune, atypical response to vaccine. If the latter, then the vax was ineffective and she suffered many of the "complications" of influenza. Dehydration from fever can typically cause palpitations etc. The older the person- the more risks- there is underlying disease in organ systems and they are less able to handle the "stress" of such a serious illness. I would be reluctant to say her response was from actually receiving a vaccine with strains that was not the "one" she may have been actually exposed to...I have heard nothing in the medical world to support that theory. I have heard mainly that some folks got flu vax and some of the viral strains "out there" were not in the vaccine this year so... people still got sick. Why are some sick and not others if they all rec'd the same vaccine?? Most likely due to past exposure either naturally or via previous immunization with flu vax. This year's strain may have been put into a previous year's serum. Those folks were protected. Or, you may have actually had the flu with this years' strain. I believe they said the same virus "out" this year is same as one encountered in 2006 or 2009. Can't remember now which year. If you had the actual flu exposure or vax that year- you would be protected. If not... you will be sick. That's where that 50%-60% "effectiveness" number is coming from.

 

The old(er) and the young have a "less intelligent" and somewhat more compromised immune systems and response to vaccines. Or, to the actual viral exposure. And, the older we get- our titers fall to what we have been exposed to so body is less able to recognize and fight off offending pathogen. There are many (reported on this forum) that have been fully immunized to certain agents and never develop immunity such as Hep B etc. Why this happens has never been fully understood??? Depends on the health of the individual, pre-existing disease processes, medications, their unique immune system and a host of other factors.

 

Low Vitamin D has recently been implicated in our ability to ward off infection. Used to be thought that the reason that folks got sick in the winter was because we were more clustered indoors in the cold and swapping germs. Now, they are thinking that low vitamin D, from lack of sun exposure, in the winter, is more to blame than anything.Take a daily supplement of Vitamin D in the winter and you will stay healthier or get outside daily for 10 min or longer.

 

That's the latest...next year they will say too much Vitamin D causes sickness

[EAMom]

Here's an aricle on a vitamin D study: http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/12/14/study-shows-vitamin-d-cuts-flu-by-nearly-50.aspx

 

 

According to the findings from a 2010 study that didn't get any widespread attention, vitamin D is a highly effective way to avoid influenza.

 

In fact, children taking low doses of Vitamin D3 were shown to be 42 percent less likely to come down with the flu.

 

The randomized, double blind, placebo-controlled study included 430 children aged 6-15, who were followed between December 2008 and March 2009.

 

Half were given 1,200 IU's of vitamin D3 daily, while the other half received a placebo.

 

Influenza strains were determined through lab testing of nose and throat swabs.

 

Eighteen of the children taking vitamin D contracted influenza Type A, compared to 31 children in the placebo group.

 

Type B influenza rates were unaffected by vitamin D use, however, the illness resulting from Type B influenza strains is typically milder than Type A.

 

Considering the fact that influenza was reduced by 42 percent at a dose of just 1,200 IU's a day, it's possible that even better results might be obtained with higher dosages—depending on just how deficient you are to begin with, of course, because it's not really the dosage that matters; it's the amount of vitamin D in your blood.

 

It's Not the Dosage that Matters—It's the Serum Level

 

 

Some 40 leading vitamin D experts from around the world currently agree that the most important factor when it comes to vitamin D is your serum level. So you really should be taking whatever dosage required to obtain a therapeutic level of vitamin D in your blood

[reactive]

Not to hijack this thread, but my DS12 PANS was just put on 50,000 IU of Vit D X 8 weeks for a deficiency we JUST found. He gets sick tons every winter, and he has always been worse with PANDAS/PANS in March most years. After the 8 weeks he needs to take 2,000 IU daily. He takes zithromax for prophylaxis. He was sick for 2 weeks with influenza this past December, and required a chest ray. He did not get a flu shot- he is allergic to eggs...not sure if we will do flu shot next year with the egg free vaccine that just came out...

[Fixit]

Great thread.

I am sorry you are being forced to take one, for the good of all!

In GA..when ds was entering middle, he failed his booster required shots...i did not want to got there and he was still is this episode. Here, at least, at that time, you did not need a reliougys exempt.

So ds13, ds10 are full up to 5yr schedule...rediculous...is it like 36 shots or elements introduced by one year old...who's immune system could handle that..?!?!?!

ds5 is only current to his 2 or 3 yrs...he was not growing and a little off, as suggested by preK teachers..i am sure he would have ended up autistic.

I'll MARCH.. if someone else will organize....

But i now thinking and some indications that DS13 may have heavy metal problems...gese wonder from where that stemmed???

 

SS...i thought i was Catholic Lite/other(you name it..it could be true)...but i believe I'm pantheist too!

911..i like your release form directives

ANd SOT still lives here!

[JAG10]

Well....... This is interesting.

Doctor was sending me the form in the mail that needed to be signed by the deadline. They sent the wrong person's form.....

 

Poor Marge, she needs to sign she is refusing a colonoscopy.......

 

So insurance companies are building cases if you don't do what is recommended, when it is recommended. It's not just vaccines.