Liver Detox

[philamom]

Can you tell me what supplements you are using for liver detox? My daughters LFT's are in the triple digits. Thank you!

[NancyD]

I really find Milk Thistle very effective. I give DD15 1 capsule tid (each capsule contains 250 mg milk thistle herbal extract and 100 mg milk thistle seed). BUT, you cannot give it if individual is on Rifampin or other drugs (see http://www.hcvadvocate.org/hepatitis/hepC/mthistle.html for list). Curcumin Phytosome also helps to protect the liver but not nearly as effective as Milk Thistle. My DD takes 1 capsule Curcumin Phytosome (250 mg) bid.

 

Perhaps others will have additional thoughts.

 

Nancy

[philamom]

Thanks Nancy. Her LLMD just called and said to stop all antibiotics for a week and retest. I forgot to ask if I should stop the supplements. The only supplement I have her on right now is Burbur from Nutramedix. Her liver functions were always slightly elevated (ranging 35-50 with Quest). This was even before treatment with abx for PANDAS/Lyme. Now her AST is 282, ALT 354. Since September 1st, she's been getting daily headaches so I've been treating with Motrin once or twice a day. She had the labs done on Sept 20th. I'm assuming the Ibuprofen caused the spike?

[NancyD]

Gee, no time ever when DD's liver function spiked did we have to stop supplements. Only certain abx. Recently they spiked and we had to stop Rifampin but we stayed on other abx and then switched to a new one that is easier on the liver. Also, one med that invariably spikes DD's liver is Diflucan. We had to switch to Amphotericin.

[LNN]

We're fond of milk thistle here too. But do I remember your DD is allergic to ragweed? My DD is and we can't use milk thistle for her. Instead, we use ALA (which is more of a brain antioxidant). You can also look into SAMe but not if you're using anything for OCD. I'll have to dust out the cobwebs. I know I've come across other liver detox things but can't recall what at the moment. I'll keep thinking...

[momcap]

We use a liver detox supplement from Nature's Sunshine called Liver Cleanse Formula. So far so good, but we're pretty early into treatment, and still have to add in zith and a cyst buster. So far he's on a pile of supplements, high-dose amoxicillin and bactrim.

 

BTW - Some supplements like artemisinin can cause liver enzymes to rise.

[sptcmom]

Thanks Nancy. Her LLMD just called and said to stop all antibiotics for a week and retest. I forgot to ask if I should stop the supplements. The only supplement I have her on right now is Burbur from Nutramedix. Her liver functions were always slightly elevated (ranging 35-50 with Quest). This was even before treatment with abx for PANDAS/Lyme. Now her AST is 282, ALT 354. Since September 1st, she's been getting daily headaches so I've been treating with Motrin once or twice a day. She had the labs done on Sept 20th. I'm assuming the Ibuprofen caused the spike?

Those are very high liver enzymes. sounds like a genetic polymorphism with phase-1 detox like many of our kids have. Many kids have trouble with methylation, acetylation and glutathione antioxidant detox pathways as a result of their genetic makeup.Including my Ds and I.

The top treatment is eating crustaceous vegetables like brocolli, cauliflower, brussells sprouts- raw or blanched, not steamed in a salad with salad dressing is fine.Dandelion greens, arugula, cilantro leaves in a herb salad are excellent too.

 

If a child can't do that then other options will be milk thistle with above mentioned exclusions, dandelion extract, cilantro tincture, glutathione (liposomal) either topically or ingested. All those protect the liver.Eat foods high in antioxidants blueberries, pomegranite, acai etc.

 

Another combination thats great is Apo -hepat drops with liposomal glutathione for full coverage.

Eat good lipids which will ease the burden on the liver for fat soluble vitamins and abx- coconut, flax, avocados

 

Again, dosage varies based on age and weight.

Such an elevation in liver enzymes is often an indication in my practice that the body is telling us to start switching to herbal abx which are more effective and more penetrative anyways- if identified correctly with ART. can't generalize on that one.

 

Jodie

Edited September 25, 2011 by sptcmom

[philamom]

I've been sick in bed last few days with a nasty cold. Yuck!

 

LLM- no allergy to ragweed.

 

momcap- that's why I've been cautious about adding supplements - never sure which ones elevate the LFT's.

 

sptcmom- unfortunately, my dd does not have good eating habits. Will eat fruits but no vegetables (raw or cooked). She does like blueberries though.

 

My dd is 10 years old, 70lbs. I try and steer away from products that have the potential to make her queasy - we are about 90% over a severe fear of vomiting, and don't wont to go back there again.

 

I have about 40 tablets of BioPure Chlorella Pyrenoidosa left over from when I was taking it. I forget, is it a liver detox?

 

Daughter is on Amoxicillin, Zithromax & Minocin. Stopped weekend Tindamx early August.

Edited September 25, 2011 by philamom

[LNN]

unfortunately, my dd does not have good eating habits. Will eat fruits but no vegetables (raw or cooked).

Ahh - I knew our kids had something in common!

 

My understanding is that chlorella works down stream from the liver - in the intestines. So toxins go into the liver, then into the GI tract. Chlorella soaks up the toxins once they're in the GI tract. Could also work elsewhere in the body but not sure about the liver. However, small doses of chlorella have greater chance of nausea as a side effect that bigger doses. So not sure you'd want to give only a few at a time if you're trying to avoid nausea fears.

[tpotter]

I noticed you are using burbur. I would also check to see if that could be affecting the liver enzymes. Burbur can be pretty potent (we had to stop when DS was on burbur and artemisia, and had a massive herx reaction (ended up in the ER.) Doc said to stop the burbur. Also, have you checked her wbc? When DS's liver enzymes were rising, that's also when he had low wbc and enlarged spleen, and all 3 are symptoms of babesia. It only became visible to us when we got more agressive with tx.

[sptcmom]

I noticed you are using burbur. I would also check to see if that could be affecting the liver enzymes. Burbur can be pretty potent (we had to stop when DS was on burbur and artemisia, and had a massive herx reaction (ended up in the ER.) Doc said to stop the burbur. Also, have you checked her wbc? When DS's liver enzymes were rising, that's also when he had low wbc and enlarged spleen, and all 3 are symptoms of babesia. It only became visible to us when we got more agressive with tx.

 

Im not sure I agree on the burbur.I guess depends on each individual. Artemesia will increase liver enzymes if its incompatable with what the body wants at the moment, I agree.

Excellent point regarding Babesia and low WBC count. One needs to keep in mind a low WBC would actually indicate Bartonella and babesia in a patient documented to have lyme borreliosis. An exact CBC, ESR, CRP needs to be looked at to make a determination. Bartonella needs to be addressed first and foremost. With high Bart its very hard to reduce any lyme, PANDAS or Babesia symptoms. When Bart titers are not indicative and its still hiding then the CBC, ESR is used to determine that along with clinical eval.

Enlarged spleen is seen after IVIG for a good few months due to the immune system connection. No one doc can explain exactly how IVIG works in "shutting down" the body's own immune system etc. The spleen plays a major role in our innate immunity.

When spleen tests on ART it is usually autoimmunity issues.

Just sharing my experiences.

[sptcmom]

unfortunately, my dd does not have good eating habits. Will eat fruits but no vegetables (raw or cooked).

Ahh - I knew our kids had something in common!

 

My understanding is that chlorella works down stream from the liver - in the intestines. So toxins go into the liver, then into the GI tract. Chlorella soaks up the toxins once they're in the GI tract. Could also work elsewhere in the body but not sure about the liver. However, small doses of chlorella have greater chance of nausea as a side effect that bigger doses. So not sure you'd want to give only a few at a time if you're trying to avoid nausea fears.

 

Chlorella can be taken anytime. The vulgaris variety is easier on the belly.Using chlorella growth factor along with chlorella is a wonderful detox strategy.Chlorella is so dense in nutrients it rarely sucks up ours. Ideal scenario is to take chlorella 1 hr prior to meals, take cilantro 30 mins after chlorella. Cilantro will assist in bile production and dumping after meals and help toxins along to the small intestine. It is essential chlorella already be present in the SI to avoid reabsorption of toxins released.

Dosage should be very carefully determined to avoid side effects.

Just sharing my experiences.

[momcap]

Im not sure I agree on the burbur.I guess depends on each individual. Artemesia will increase liver enzymes if its incompatable with what the body wants at the moment, I agree.

Excellent point regarding Babesia and low WBC count. One needs to keep in mind a low WBC would actually indicate Bartonella and babesia in a patient documented to have lyme borreliosis. An exact CBC, ESR, CRP needs to be looked at to make a determination. Bartonella needs to be addressed first and foremost. With high Bart its very hard to reduce any lyme, PANDAS or Babesia symptoms. When Bart titers are not indicative and its still hiding then the CBC, ESR is used to determine that along with clinical eval.

Enlarged spleen is seen after IVIG for a good few months due to the immune system connection. No one doc can explain exactly how IVIG works in "shutting down" the body's own immune system etc. The spleen plays a major role in our innate immunity.

When spleen tests on ART it is usually autoimmunity issues.

Just sharing my experiences.

Do you have any studies or further info on low WBC indicating bartonella and babesia in lyme patients? Or is that anecdotal? All 3 of my boys have slightly low WBC and I have been trying to figure out what that means. They are all positive for lyme, and we suspected bartonella and babesia before we did the blood testing, just based on symptoms. What about the white blood cell parasites like anaplamsa? Do they decrease WBC too? I'm interested to learn more. Thanks!

[mdmom]

We use Milk Thistle and Thorne Crucera SGS is helpful too. It is a very potent antioxidant - 1 capsule has the antioxidant value of 1 pound of broccoli. My children take 2 Milk Thistle and 2 Crucera each day (breakfast and dinner). You can get the Thorne product on Amazon and we use Vitamin Shoppe Milk Thistle.

[sptcmom]

Im not sure I agree on the burbur.I guess depends on each individual. Artemesia will increase liver enzymes if its incompatable with what the body wants at the moment, I agree.

Excellent point regarding Babesia and low WBC count. One needs to keep in mind a low WBC would actually indicate Bartonella and babesia in a patient documented to have lyme borreliosis. An exact CBC, ESR, CRP needs to be looked at to make a determination. Bartonella needs to be addressed first and foremost. With high Bart its very hard to reduce any lyme, PANDAS or Babesia symptoms. When Bart titers are not indicative and its still hiding then the CBC, ESR is used to determine that along with clinical eval.

Enlarged spleen is seen after IVIG for a good few months due to the immune system connection. No one doc can explain exactly how IVIG works in "shutting down" the body's own immune system etc. The spleen plays a major role in our innate immunity.

When spleen tests on ART it is usually autoimmunity issues.

Just sharing my experiences.

Do you have any studies or further info on low WBC indicating bartonella and babesia in lyme patients? Or is that anecdotal? All 3 of my boys have slightly low WBC and I have been trying to figure out what that means. They are all positive for lyme, and we suspected bartonella and babesia before we did the blood testing, just based on symptoms. What about the white blood cell parasites like anaplamsa? Do they decrease WBC too? I'm interested to learn more. Thanks!

 

I am an ART advanced level-3 practitioner and an ILADS clinician. I follow Dr. Klinghardt's teachings, have trained with him, been mentored by two top LLMDs and am also a certified homeopath. My views are based upon what I've learned in my clinical work and in class theory as well. Lyme and Co is a clinical diagnosis. Most parents choose to go for bloodwork for insurance purposes. An advanced ART clincian doesnot require expensive blood tests. Basic CBC etc as I mention above is adequate to look at prior to ART and the muscle testing itself gives us a clear picture of whats going on where in the body.Its the best tool I chose to train myself in after hundreds of hours of research trying to help my child and my family. One has to be a believer in energetic medicine/testing, have a working knowledge of Quantum Physics and understand chronic disease at a cellular/biochemical level.There are certain professional techniques we learn that help us help patients.

 

Your Id is MDmom. If you are an MD I would be happy to chat and share my professional knowledge for yourself and your patients.