Down the Path of Mold

[justinekno]

For those that have gone down the mold path, did you do the ERMI testing or have someone come in and check for mold? My ds and I did the labs recommended by Shoemaker and it looks like we have a high probability of mold exposure secondary to Lyme. Our LLMD has recommended the ERMI testing but I'm wondering if it makes more sense to have someone come in and find the mold (and then remediate) versus spending $300 for someone to tell us we need to hire someone to find the mold.

[MichaelTampa]

We have been doing all of the things we just know we are going to do regardless of what any test shows, and then we are going to test. We had a moldy bathroom tub and walls that we got fixed, and will eventually get the air conditioning vents replaced as they have many holes in them, meaning air from the attic is easily blowing into our home. Then we'll test. It comes down to how sure you are you want to have something done anyway. The $300 for testing is a lot, yes, but, some remediation can be very expensive too, much more than that. Another question, perhaps for the potential remediator, would be, what testing, if any, would be needed to get it covered by insurance (if it was caused by something that insurance might cover).

 

From what I heard at the ERMI conference, what people liked about ERMI testing is it tests levels over time. This can be good, as the levels are going to vary throughout the day and months and seasons, as the outside air changes due to humidity and other factors, and inside air changes due to running the A/C and so on. How good is a test that you "pass" as healthy air because you just ran the A/C for an hour, but would have failed if it was run a different time of day or the next day? I don't know that it is that dramatic, people who talk about this haven't given that level of detail. But, I thought I heard for the ERMI, you do it by vaccuuming the carpet. Now, we have just had carpet replaced in some key rooms, again, partially related to mold issues. It just can't be cleaned. So, I see how the carpet is going to tell much more of a history than their air. But, I have to wonder, how much of a history will it tell. Maybe it can be cleaned after remediation and then retested and only show the effects of the air after the remediation? It seems like a lot to ask, I say this speaking as someone who probably hauled out about 4 gallons worth of dirt from under our living/dining room carpet when we removed it. For what it's worth, of course, it had been vaccuumed, but not professionally cleaned in at least a decade. I am sure the experts have experience with this and can speak to it, but have to say, when I heard about the ERMI using the carpets, I just got all these questions and started wondering how accurate it was really going to be.

 

Love to see others chime in here with what they have done or their plans. Sort of navigating a territory we know only a little about here.

[JuliaFaith]

We did the ERMI testing because my son kept testing high for mold with muscle testing. We thought all the mold had been removed from our house in prior years and did not think there was a mold problem in our home. These are the main reasons we did the test. It came back rather high which really surprised us. After talking to the lab that does the testing, the chemist recommended that we clean our house top to bottom (vacuum, wash, vacuum), heating system cleaned, and retest in 2-3 months. We are in the process of cleaning and decided to replace carpeting and some other things in case we have to move. We just found mold under trim along our countertops in the kitchen and under tile behind the faucet. What a surprise! Not sure what we will find next...

 

For the ERMI testing, I called and talked to someone at the office and they recommended I use the 'dust-cloth' method because 1 of 2 rooms was wood floor. You only test the main living room and bedroom because the national averages were only based on those 2 rooms. I just dusted above door ways in both rooms. If you have just carpet, then they recommend the vacuum method. Either way, they send you the stuff you need to do either and you do the test and send it back yourself. At first, I thought someone had to do the test and found a company that wanted to charge me $600 to do the test so glad I found out it could be done by the homeowner for $290.

Edited May 15, 2011 by JuliaFaith

[justinekno]

Thanks for this info. Once you knew to look for mold, how did you know where to look? Did you hire someone? I'm just wondering if it makes more sense to have someone come find the places where there is mold rather than do a test that just tells me I need to look for mold. We have hardwood ithroughout our house except for our family room which has carpet that we put in 10 years ago.

 

We did the ERMI testing because my son kept testing high for mold with muscle testing. We thought all the mold had been removed from our house in prior years and did not think there was a mold problem in our home. These are the main reasons we did the test. It came back rather high which really surprised us. After talking to the lab that does the testing, the chemist recommended that we clean our house top to bottom (vacuum, wash, vacuum), heating system cleaned, and retest in 2-3 months. We are in the process of cleaning and decided to replace carpeting and some other things in case we have to move. We just found mold under trim along our countertops in the kitchen and under tile behind the faucet. What a surprise! Not sure what we will find next...

 

For the ERMI testing, I called and talked to someone at the office and they recommended I use the 'dust-cloth' method because 1 of 2 rooms was wood floor. You only test the main living room and bedroom because the national averages were only based on those 2 rooms. I just dusted above door ways in both rooms. If you have just carpet, then they recommend the vacuum method. Either way, they send you the stuff you need to do either and you do the test and send it back yourself. At first, I thought someone had to do the test and found a company that wanted to charge me $600 to do the test so glad I found out it could be done by the homeowner for $290.

Edited May 15, 2011 by justinekno

[MichaelTampa]

Yes, thanks JF, that makes me feel much better about the ERMI testing, using a dustcloth method for rooms without carpeting. It seems then you'll feel confident you're getting some of the "over time" aspect of things, without using carpets that are going to have the entire history in there.

 

The people who come and look for potential mold, if you will, are going to know a lot more than us here. Maybe you could collect enough nuggets to find some things. If you have carpet, you can pull up a corner and look underneath for it. Of course, that will only tell you about if there is mold wherever you pull it up. Some of it is visible, you can look in the shower/bath/kitchen area, underneath the cabinets under the sinks places, on the ceilings for stains from water (although we have several of those and the guy who came in said it was not showing signs of likely being a problem, of course we have not tested yet...). Some will come and talk to you a bit and give a little poke around high-level without any charge, perhaps that's a way to go if you can find that.

 

jk--10 hours or 10 years?

[justinekno]

Oops, I meant 10 years ago! I have heard of people using mold sniffing dogs too. Now that's an interesting concept.

 

 

Yes, thanks JF, that makes me feel much better about the ERMI testing, using a dustcloth method for rooms without carpeting. It seems then you'll feel confident you're getting some of the "over time" aspect of things, without using carpets that are going to have the entire history in there.

 

The people who come and look for potential mold, if you will, are going to know a lot more than us here. Maybe you could collect enough nuggets to find some things. If you have carpet, you can pull up a corner and look underneath for it. Of course, that will only tell you about if there is mold wherever you pull it up. Some of it is visible, you can look in the shower/bath/kitchen area, underneath the cabinets under the sinks places, on the ceilings for stains from water (although we have several of those and the guy who came in said it was not showing signs of likely being a problem, of course we have not tested yet...). Some will come and talk to you a bit and give a little poke around high-level without any charge, perhaps that's a way to go if you can find that.

 

jk--10 hours or 10 years?

[Familyof5]

I believe the ERMI test to be superior for the reasons mentioned above: it shows mold amplification over time. I think it is a useful tool also because it will pinpoint the different types of mold that are elevated. For example, I had a specific mold on my ERMI report showing high levels. I talked to the microbiologist who performed the test and he told me that this specific type of mold grows indoors predominately on cardboard. He did tell me that it was a nuerotoxic mold (most of them are). Anyway, for months I kept this in the back of my mind while my husband and I searched the home for mold spots. Finally, we took apart our air handler to clean the inside. Inside the unit, was a piece of cardboard with mold growing on it that had been there for 8 years. The mold grew from the condensation that dripped inside the unit onto this piece of scrap cardboard left inside the unit at installation. Blowing mold throughout our house every time we turned the heat or AC on. I couldn't wait to call the microbiologist to tell him that he was spot on!

 

Also, another important reason to have an ERMI done, especially if you are going to be treated by Doc Shoemaker, is that it gives you a baseline reading of what amount of mold is making you ill. You know where to go from there. As an example, the house that we moved out of had two ERMI readings of 7 and 9. We moved into a house with a 3. We felt better in the house with a 3, but not great. After elimiating more mold spots in our new house, at last test we were at less than a 1. I believe the doctors may be reluctant to treat you without knowing you are living in a clean environment. The ERMI is their way to measure that.

 

As far as looking for mold. From my experience, start with your heating and ventilation systems (I'd suggest shutting it off for a couple of weeks to see if there is any improvement in health). Look carefully at the basement. If your basement is moldy, and your air handler is in the basement, make sure your air handler is not drawing air from the basement. Look in the attic--mold in our attic disguised itsel by looking just like dust. Then look at every single place in your house where there is water.

 

Good luck.

[philamom]

Familyof5- How did you figure out it was mold in your attic, if disguised as dust? thx

Edited May 15, 2011 by philamom

[Familyof5]

Well, our attic was kind of large and dark. If you shone a flashlight on the rafters and roof it looked just like dust and the knotty pine made it look even more deceiving. Not until we walked right up to it, it did have a slight greenish tinge to it. We touched it with our fingers and it was somewhat fuzzy, but still looked like dust---the fuzziness and green hue clued us in. Most people will look for black sticky mold, which we did have some of, but the entire attic was covered in this fuzzy greenish brownish dust looking mold. I had already had ERMIs done in the house, so I knew we had mold, I just hadn't found it yet. Our air handler was in the attic with this mold. Once we found the mold, we immediately shut off the air handler, closed and taped all the vents shut, and the entire family started to improve within days. I then had remidiators come by to look at the mold for pricing of remidiation and they all verified that it was indeed mold.

 

As a side note, for years I would hide all the kid's Xmas presents in the attic. And, every Xmas my kids would have pretty severe setbacks. The mold had settled on their presents, and opening them up at Xmas time caused the spores to be released right in their beautiful little faces. It also released these toxic spores in my family room to be settled there for weeks to come. This has been an amazing journey of discover for me realizing all the environmental factors that cause illness in my family!

[lismom]

Well, our attic was kind of large and dark. If you shone a flashlight on the rafters and roof it looked just like dust and the knotty pine made it look even more deceiving. Not until we walked right up to it, it did have a slight greenish tinge to it. We touched it with our fingers and it was somewhat fuzzy, but still looked like dust---the fuzziness and green hue clued us in. Most people will look for black sticky mold, which we did have some of, but the entire attic was covered in this fuzzy greenish brownish dust looking mold. I had already had ERMIs done in the house, so I knew we had mold, I just hadn't found it yet. Our air handler was in the attic with this mold. Once we found the mold, we immediately shut off the air handler, closed and taped all the vents shut, and the entire family started to improve within days. I then had remidiators come by to look at the mold for pricing of remidiation and they all verified that it was indeed mold.

 

As a side note, for years I would hide all the kid's Xmas presents in the attic. And, every Xmas my kids would have pretty severe setbacks. The mold had settled on their presents, and opening them up at Xmas time caused the spores to be released right in their beautiful little faces. It also released these toxic spores in my family room to be settled there for weeks to come. This has been an amazing journey of discover for me realizing all the environmental factors that cause illness in my family!

 

 

What kind of setbacks did the kids have? symptoms? And if you can share, do you know what HLA's are mold susceptible?

[MichaelTampa]

Another thought occurs to maybe help give a sense of how bad a mold problem is. At least it gives us some information in my case. Started having acid reflux again last couple nights, preventing me from sleeping in lying down position. This problem was solved following removal of mold from bathroom, so I knew then that this acid reflux problem had mold as part of it (but not all of it, I have traveled to non-moldy places plenty and still had the problem, but that was before lyme treatment). Well, finally realized I better check the A/C filter, and it needed changing. It was 4 weeks old, but part of the 4 weeks included cleaning up from removing bedroom carpeting, so a tough 4 weeks, if you will. These are the MERV-11 filters we started using as recommended for mold, as they collect mold spores. I highly recommend them for anyone even vaguely considering whether they have a mold problem (I guess that includes really anyone who has lyme). MERV-11 is not a brand name, but more a quality, related to what size things it can and cannot catch. Anyway, if these filters are supposed to last 3 months, and last 4 weeks, that's a sign to me that we still have a problem (and I'm not surprised by that, I know we still have work to do). But, anyway, perhaps this could be another something to do, using these filters, seeing how long it takes for them to get clogged up, noticing health effects when new ones are installed, just to give some information on how moldy your home might or might not be. They are not cheap as far as filters go, don't look for them in the stores, recommend buy online to get cheaper price rather than special-ordering at a store.

Edited May 16, 2011 by MichaelTampa

[philamom]

Another thought occurs to maybe help give a sense of how bad a mold problem is. At least it gives us some information in my case. Started having acid reflux again last couple nights, preventing me from sleeping in lying down position. This problem was solved following removal of mold from bathroom, so I knew then that this acid reflux problem had mold as part of it (but not all of it, I have traveled to non-moldy places plenty and still had the problem, but that was before lyme treatment). Well, finally realized I better check the A/C filter, and it needed changing. It was 4 weeks old, but part of the 4 weeks included cleaning up from removing bedroom carpeting, so a tough 4 weeks, if you will. These are the MERV-11 filters we started using as recommended for mold, as they collect mold spores. I highly recommend them for anyone even vaguely considering whether they have a mold problem (I guess that includes really anyone who has lyme). MERV-11 is not a brand name, but more a quality, related to how much it can catch. Anyway, if these filters are supposed to last 3 months, and last 4 weeks, that's a sign to me that we still have a problem (and I'm not surprised by that, I know we still have work to do). But, anyway, perhaps this could be another something to do, using these filters, seeing how long it takes for them to get clogged up, noticing health effects when new ones are installed, just to give some information on how moldy your home might or might not be. They are not cheap as far as filters go, don't look for them in the stores, recommend buy online to get cheaper price rather than special-ordering at a store.

Good timing. Filter change is on my list this week. I will hold off and check online. Thanks for sharing Michael!

[philamom]

I have to really consider mold being another issue for us. When I was 7-8 months pregnant and on bedrest our finished basement flooded. The days following we had a company come out that used industrial machines to suck up the water & place fans around. My husband was out of town so I took care of supervising the ordeal (big no-no). We didn't replace the carpet or padding. A couple weeks later I was diagnosed with H.E.L.P (liver toxicity) and needed to deliver asap.

Three years later had another flood. We replaced the carpet this time with no padding underneath. The company said there were no signs of mold, but I always wonder about behind the drywall.

We still occasionally get flooding in one area when there's a lot of rain.

 

And, in our bathroom, there is green stuff in the handle to turn the shower on-off. Yikes.

[JuliaFaith]

We are looking at adding a filter to our heating system. Right now there is an electronic filter but we are not sure that is enough. My dh was at Costco and the 'heating specialist' there said we could add a hepa filter system on our heater for $560. Have heard that you have to be careful in terms of what the motor can handle when adding on something like this. Wondering whether it has an additional fan on it to assist the current motor with distribution.

 

Thanks MT for all your info.

[JuliaFaith]

We are looking at adding a filter to our heating system. Right now there is an electronic filter but we are not sure that is enough. My dh was at Costco and the 'heating specialist' there said we could add a hepa filter system on our heater for $560. Have heard that you have to be careful in terms of what the motor can handle when adding on something like this. Wondering whether it has an additional fan on it to assist the current motor with distribution.

 

Thanks MT for all your info.