Probiotics and Exacerbation

[eljomom]

KaraD---this just brings me back to the fact that it would seem that since the basal ganglia isn't going anywhere, that there will always be these antibodies circulating....right?

[pathfinder]

I am beginning to wonder about my son's current probiotics.

My son is currently on Klaire labs Ther-biotic complete and SB. Ther-biotic complete has streptococcus thermophilus strain in it.

Now, here is my question, is thermophilus good for pandas kids or is it bad for pandas kid? ( I am going to stop that particular probiotics for now just to be on safe side) Probiotics are such an important part of pandas protocol and it would be a great help to many of us if you smart people would share your knowledge. Thank you in advance

Pathfinder

[pathfinder]

pandas 16

I have another question for you regarding following statement from your earlier post -- "Btw for those struggling to find a probiotic that doesn't result in a hyper feeling "- Are you saying that probiotics make you--or should I say give you hyper feeling? I am asking you this because my son has been acting very restless/ADHD like past 2weeks since he started new probiotics.

Pathfinder

[Guest pandas16]

pandas 16

I have another question for you regarding following statement from your earlier post -- "Btw for those struggling to find a probiotic that doesn't result in a hyper feeling "- Are you saying that probiotics make you--or should I say give you hyper feeling? I am asking you this because my son has been acting very restless/ADHD like past 2weeks since he started new probiotics.

Pathfinder

 

 

Everyone is different of course but my problem was never strep thermophilus. If you look back to the article I posted on the other page, strep thermophilus actually looks beneficial for kids with PANDAS. I honestly ate yogurt for years without any problem. Anyways though as a kid, my parent FORCED me to take my supplements and culturelle which is understandable given the severity of my PANDAS case. However, I would always get like "a hit" from the regiment that I was on and the hit was this hyper ADHD like feeling. I couldn't pinpoint what it was until in college when I started taking things separately and it was DEFINATELY the culturelle. This is what started my search. I have literally tried at least 10 different brands of probiotics without success. After this, I started to research Th1 and Th2 and saw that th1 is pro-inflammatory and th2 and anti inflammatory. I then started to read articles on pubmed about the different cytokines that specific strains can induce. I saw that some people were having some luck with the probiotic theralac which is why I decided to try it. After trying it I then found the first article I posted saying it balances th1 and th2. It worked very well for a while until I realized I had a severe sensitivity to grapes. It unfortunately has grapeseed extract so I changed it. I switched to VSL3 and have no problem with it.

Edited April 10, 2011 by pandas16

[SSS]

I agree, every child/person is different. My dd6 seems to react to the strep strain in probiotics and yogurt, so I avoid those 100%.

You may also get reactions to probiotics if there is yeast overgrowth, and the probiotics are fighting it- but that should be relatively short lived, a herx type of thing.

My .02 cents.

[smartyjones]

After this, I started to research Th1 and Th2 and saw that th1 is pro-inflammatory and th2 and anti inflammatory. I then started to read articles on pubmed about the different cytokines that specific strains can induce. I saw that some people were having some luck with the probiotic theralac which is why I decided to try it. After trying it I then found the first article I posted saying it balances th1 and th2.

 

 

pandas16 -- do you have info on what you mean about the different strains and the cytokines they induce? or can you refer me to where i can find that?

thanks!

[Guest pandas16]

I usually just go on pub med and look for stuff. I still have access to it from my university. I have free access to medical databases for a year after graduation.

[Guest pandas16]

I usually just go on pub med and look for stuff. I still have access to it from my university. I have free access to medical databases for a year after graduation.

[smartyjones]

so this is really above my head, but. .. . . pandas16 -- if you thought you may be having a poor reaction to probiotics, would you suggest avoiding strains that promote the development of Th1 cells?

[Guest pandas16]

I mean I'm not a doctor by ANY means, but from what I read it would seem that way? That's the only reason I can think of why I've reacted badly to some. My mom works with people who have type 1 diabetes (also an autoimmune disease) and she said that her patients have a VERY difficult time finding a probiotic that doesn't make their blood sugar all whacky too. If you type in probiotics and th1 on google a bunch of interesting stuff will come up too if you don't have access to other databases.

Edited April 10, 2011 by pandas16

[butterflymom]

=

Edited October 5, 2015 by tampicc

[Guest pandas16]

I don't know, I'm sorry.

[smartyjones]

. . . . . and do you recall from your research which strains promote Th2 and/or Treg cells?

 

 

tampicc -- i've got to get going so will do more later. . . this is all so very much above my head. . .. i did a pub med search for 'probiotics and cytokines' -- 36 pages. i've looked thru 4 pgs and it seems

lacto casei "promotes the development of Th 1 cells", "induced production of anti-allergic T1 cytokines, enhanced T1 responce".

b. longum is "immunomodulating".

Bifidobacterium bifidum is "beneficial b/c it's ability to decrease EDN (esoinophil-derived neurotoxin) release from esinophils", in neonates - "reduction in inflammatory responce".

l. plantarium "modulates immune responce."

 

the one my son has been taking does not have l.casei in it. so far, it looks like that's the one i've found that induces th1.

 

i've taken him off it for now. l'll let you know how he does.

[philamom]

I agree, every child/person is different. My dd6 seems to react to the strep strain in probiotics and yogurt, so I avoid those 100%.

You may also get reactions to probiotics if there is yeast overgrowth, and the probiotics are fighting it- but that should be relatively short lived, a herx type of thing.

My .02 cents.

My daughter also strongly reacts to the S. Therm in many of the probiotics, so I avoid them as well. She reacts to all supplements and probiotics when first introduced, but, nothing like the reaction I get when I try VSL. It's ashame, because it's a great probiotic.

I currently give my dd 250 billion cfu of probiotics daily. Last year she got c-diff while taking only Florastor.

[Guest pandas16]

Philamom, do you mind me asking if your daughter is immunodeficient? I'm just curious because I took VSL#3 today and felt amazing and I'm not immunodeficient.

Edited April 10, 2011 by pandas16