One more question on Milk Thistle, I promise...

[lismom]

Any thoughts towards this is appreciated. To exhausted to search the net. I was wondering whether things might flare some with the start of Milk Thistle. I know its an antioxidant as well as liver detox. Started this two days ago and yesterday things were horrid. Just wondering if that may have played a part.

[LNN]

Any thoughts towards this is appreciated. To exhausted to search the net. I was wondering whether things might flare some with the start of Milk Thistle. I know its an antioxidant as well as liver detox. Started this two days ago and yesterday things were horrid. Just wondering if that may have played a part.

We saw very quick relief from it. But...you aren't supposed to take milk thistle if you're allergic to ragweed (they're related). So my first question is whether your child could be allergic to ragweed? (which I assumed would trigger a respiratory/allergic reaction but I suppose you could see behavioral?)

 

Wish I had words or wisdom to share. Just push fluids, BMs, and anti-inflammatories. Stay strong...

[lismom]

Any thoughts towards this is appreciated. To exhausted to search the net. I was wondering whether things might flare some with the start of Milk Thistle. I know its an antioxidant as well as liver detox. Started this two days ago and yesterday things were horrid. Just wondering if that may have played a part.

We saw very quick relief from it. But...you aren't supposed to take milk thistle if you're allergic to ragweed (they're related). So my first question is whether your child could be allergic to ragweed? (which I assumed would trigger a respiratory/allergic reaction but I suppose you could see behavioral?)

 

Wish I had words or wisdom to share. Just push fluids, BMs, and anti-inflammatories. Stay strong...

 

Oh my gosh. I'm an idiot. Yes he is 100% allergic to ragweed. Been tested and taking shots to that and others. Your words of wisdom were spot on. Thanks.

Edited March 30, 2011 by lismom

[philamom]

I just wanted to mention that I read Milk Thistle shouldn't be taken with Flagyl (which is the same line as Tindamax? correct?) on the canlyme website. It said it hinders the antibiotic. But if the llmd is prescribing it, than I assume it is fine. It's probably something I should consider since my daughter's LFT's are constantly elevated.

[LNN]

I just wanted to mention that I read Milk Thistle shouldn't be taken with Flagyl (which is the same line as Tindamax? correct?) on the canlyme website. It said it hinders the antibiotic. But if the llmd is prescribing it, than I assume it is fine. It's probably something I should consider since my daughter's LFT's are constantly elevated.

 

Thanks for this! Started the MT last weekend when DS was really bad off and haven't called the LLMD to verify it was ok. We're due to start tindamax this weekend. Wonder if it's ok to take in the 5 days between pulses to help clear up the die off? Will have to call tomorrow!

[LNN]

Lismom - I took note of the ragweed thing b/c my daughter, my other lyme kid, is allergic. We give her glutathione daily, but she has blips of behavior and I'm looking for something additional. If I come across something, I'll let you know...

[philamom]

I just wanted to mention that I read Milk Thistle shouldn't be taken with Flagyl (which is the same line as Tindamax? correct?) on the canlyme website. It said it hinders the antibiotic. But if the llmd is prescribing it, than I assume it is fine. It's probably something I should consider since my daughter's LFT's are constantly elevated.

 

Thanks for this! Started the MT last weekend when DS was really bad off and haven't called the LLMD to verify it was ok. We're due to start tindamax this weekend. Wonder if it's ok to take in the 5 days between pulses to help clear up the die off? Will have to call tomorrow!

I'm pretty sure MichaelTampa uses Milk Thistle and is currently on Tindamax, so hopefully he will chime in. I just remember reading it could cancel the effects of the antibiotic. Maybe, they just need to be given at different times.

[MichaelTampa]

Goodness, now that you say that, it sounds vaguely familiar that I had seen that, probably a previous post mentioning the canlyme reference. I can't find it now, but think I looked at it last time. It wasn't clear to me if that applies to tindamax or not. Yes, they are similar, so it might. I took milk thistle briefly for a few days a week or so ago, but think several months ago that I was on it a month or so while also on tindamax. That is going back a while so I really do not remember for sure. I do energy test these things, and lately the milk thistle has tested as a no, for whatever reason.

 

I think this is going to be an individual thing--how much is it hampering the flagyl/tindamax, how badly does your liver need the milk thistle--questions like that. If you mix them and still have progress, then good. Do you have tests showing you need milk thistle--blood tests of liver enzymes, or energy testing as good? Either of those tests might be the best way to really answer the question for a specific person.

[LNN]

Lismom-

just found this...

http://www.hcvadvocate.org/hepatitis/hepC/mthistle.html

Researchers at the University of Pittsburgh have suspected that milk thistle can slow down or reduce the activity of enzymes in the liver. What does this have to do with HIV? you might ask. Well, enzymes in the liver break down many of the substances that we eat and drink, including medications. If the activity of these enzymes are reduced, then drugs remain in the blood longer than they otherwise might. This could lead to having higher-than-expected levels of drugs in the body, causing side effects or intensifying already-existing side effects. Indeed, in recent experiments using milk thistle and human liver cells, the researchers found that relatively small concentrations of milk thistle did significantly slow down the activity of the liver enzyme CYP3A4 by 50% to 100%.

 

Many medications taken by people with HIV/AIDS (PHAs) - such as protease inhibitors and non-nukes - are processed by this liver enzyme. If milk thistle is taken by someone using protease inhibitors or non-nukes, it has the potential to raise levels of these drugs, causing unpleasant or even dangerous side effects. Below is a short list of some other medications that are processed through the CYP3A4 enzyme. Levels of these medications may increase if taken by people who are also using milk thistle. This list is not exhaustive:

 

* methadone

* heart drugs - Tambocor (flecainide), Rythmol (propafenone)

* antibiotics - erythromycin, rifampin

* anti-seizure drugs - carbamazepine (Tegretol)

* antidepressants - St. John's wort, Zyban/Wellbutrin (bupropion), Paxil (paroxetine), Prozac (fluoxetine), Luvox (fluvoxetine) Serzone (nefazodone), Zoloft (sertraline), Effexor (venlafaxine)

* antihistamines - Hismanal (astemizole), Seldane (terfenadine)

* antifungals - itraconazole (Sporanox), Ketoconazole (Nizoral)

* gastrointestinal motility agents - Prepulsid (Cisapride)

* ergot drugs - Ergonovine, Ergomar (ergotamine)

* anti-psychotics - Clozaril (clozapine), Orap (pimozide)

* sedatives/sleeping pills - Ambien (zolpidem), Halcion (triazolam), Versed (midazolam)

* lipid-lowering drugs (statins) - Lescol (fluvastatin), Mevacor (lovastatin), Pravachol (pravastatin) and Zocor (simvastatin), Baycol (cerivastatin)

* transplant drugs - cyclosporine (Neoral, Sandimmune), ProGraf (tacrolimus)

 

Milk thistle also has the potential to lower levels of the following drugs:

 

* anti-parasite drugs - Mepron (atovaquone)

* sedatives/sleeping pills - Ativan (lorazepam)

* hormones - estrogen

 

 

Still researching...but isn't your DS on rifampin? Between that and the ragweed allergy, MT may not be a good match for him. Sounds like a call to your prescribing doc is in order - no family should have to suffer this much in the name of getting well...

[LNN]

Followed up with my LLMD this morning. Said it was ok for DS to take milk thistle while on pulse tindamax. Which is a big relief. After being part of this thread yesterday, I didn't give DS milk thistle last night and this morning he asked to stay home b/c his back pain was so bad. So he's been on the couch all day with the heating pad and laptop. Not sure if I can attribute it solely to milk thistle. But will happily add it back into our schedule.

 

For anyone else, I'd still check with your own docs. Guessing milk thistle can interact with other meds and should probably be re-evaluated every time meds are changed.

 

Still looking for an alternative for DD, who's allergic to ragweed. If anyone comes across something, please let me know.

[MichaelTampa]

Still looking for an alternative for DD, who's allergic to ragweed. If anyone comes across something, please let me know.

 

 

Do you mean, you're looking for something to give to DD that will help like milk thistle does, because she is allergic to ragweed, and so you are avoiding milk thistle for her because they are similar? Not really sure if that's your question, but I have heard SAMe is good for liver also, I think I ran across one other thing very good for liver too recently, but don't remember what it was.

[LNN]

Do you mean, you're looking for something to give to DD that will help like milk thistle does, because she is allergic to ragweed, and so you are avoiding milk thistle for her because they are similar? Not really sure if that's your question, but I have heard SAMe is good for liver also, I think I ran across one other thing very good for liver too recently, but don't remember what it was.

Yes, that is my question. I've read that Burbur is also a decent liver detox as well as kidneys, but seems to come in drops. DD6 will not eat or drink any regular food that "looks" or "smells" funny - so the idea of getting her to drink anything with herbal drops is pretty out of the question. Takes pills no problem. Will look into SAMe - thanks.

[lismom]

Got back from our LLMD appt. today. Went well. Confirmed lyme and Bart. Testing for Babesia. She is switching up the zith for mino with the rifampin. She also gave a sample of the glutathione liquid. So I think I'll start with that for one detox tx. She did pick up on a lab report we had that showed my son has a gene mutation HLA-27 with can make detoxing harder.

We will add in chlorystamine if necessary. May look into burbur too. Kathy

[GraceUnderPressure]

I've seen dandelion recommended as similar to milk thistle - would it have the same ragweed allergy cross-sensitivity?

[sptcmom]

Do you mean, you're looking for something to give to DD that will help like milk thistle does, because she is allergic to ragweed, and so you are avoiding milk thistle for her because they are similar? Not really sure if that's your question, but I have heard SAMe is good for liver also, I think I ran across one other thing very good for liver too recently, but don't remember what it was.

Yes, that is my question. I've read that Burbur is also a decent liver detox as well as kidneys, but seems to come in drops. DD6 will not eat or drink any regular food that "looks" or "smells" funny - so the idea of getting her to drink anything with herbal drops is pretty out of the question. Takes pills no problem. Will look into SAMe - thanks.

 

Organic Dandelion extract maybe available from www.mountainroseherbs.com as a capsule form if that helps.

 

Also many crustaceous vegetables are extremely helpful for liver detox- brussels sprouts, cabbage, cauliflower, brocolli etc.I make a green smoothie with a few of these and add green apple and pear in the smoothie to fix the taste and it works for several kids.

Pure coconut water is a good liver and kidney detox. It comes in flavors too.8 ozs a day is recommended.

The best native remedy for liver detox is sugarcane juice with ginger actually. Its used as the chief detox for children with jaundice in India.We have Little India here in Edison NJ and they have a little sugarcane juice place. We tried it and loved it. Are regulars now- weekly doses of the good stuff. They squeeze fresh Caribbean sugarcane in hygenically sealed machines and its awesome to watch and the taste is great too.

Jodie