CarolynN

Hello, I wanted to share with you what I do when my son's tics/anxiety get going. This is what my Naturopathic doctor shared with me. He told me to give Daniel 150 mg's of B6 for 3 to 4 days. I divide it up during the day in smaller doses. I have to consider how much B6 he was getting in his multi-vitamin (Bonnie Grimaldi's TS-Plus) so I empty out some of the B6 in the capsules to make sure he was not getting over the 150 mgs. After the three to four days I go back to my standard dose of just over 50 mg's a day. The other thing I do for him is give him 10,000 mg's of Glycine for eight days. Glycine is an amino acid (again broken down throughout the day and even at midnight). Glycine helps the neurotransmitters run more smooth. After eight days (I never have had to go this long in giving him that high of a dose. It usually only takes about 2 to 3 days) I go back to the normal dose of 4600 mg's a day. I don't know what medical conditions would keep someone from doing the glycine, at this high of a level, so I would certainly run it by a doctor. The other thing that really helps is Epsom Salts bath's. I give him, up to two baths a day when things are bad, and we put 2 cups in a full tub of water and soak for 20 minutes. I have my son drink LOTS of water to help flush out the toxins and also the excessive neurotransmitters. My son does not enjoy drinking a lot of water at once so I will give him ice chips. He finds that more fun. It certainly seems to help some getting the extra water in him.. Another thing I do is give him N-Acetyl-L-Cysteine, up to 1200 mgs, a day. I divide up the doses 600 mgs in the morning and 600 mgs at night. This helps remove toxins from the body by aiding the liver. I hope this helps some. I know how frustrating it is when you think things have settled down and then there are the tics again. All I can say is use those times to really do some detective work to see if you can figure out a pattern. This is where food journals come in handy. I know for my son, he can typically handle a few products of artificial foods in his body, but once he has had too much his body will start reacting. So for your child it may have been a slow buildup of too much of what he is sensitive too. Have a good evening, Carolyn

xeven101, Thank you so much for sharing you experience. I wanted to tell you about a book that I have found recently and it has been so helpful for me in understanding how to control and help OCD. It is called "Brain Lock" by Jeffrey Schwartz, M.D. He explains in the book how to mentally overcome OCD and shares many examples. A new book runs $14.95 but it is well worth the money. I would also recommend you go to a counselor that does Cognitative Behavioral Therapy. This is what seems to have helped many with OCD. It helps you to analyze your thoughts and put them in perspective. Same thing the book does. The other part to it is getting on the right diet and the right supplements. Many people on this forum, including the forum leader Chemar for her, has had great success with supplements and diet changes. I know I have seen it with my own family. My son has Tourettes and OCD. The things that really set his tics and anxiety off are food dyes, high fructose corn syrup and MSG based foods. I have seen this pattern for 3 years now and there is no doubt there is a correlation. I have been treating him with great supplements and diet changes and he is a changed person. Here is a link to a post I did that can explain more to you if you are interested . You just need to scroll down a bit on the link and you will see my response http://www.latitudes.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=5145 . You would probably be interested in reading Chemar's post regarding her son and what she had done to help him http://www.latitudes.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=687 . I know many have found help with 5 htp supplementation or a product called Inositol. You can read up on both these on the Internet and how they help OCD. The biggest thing I would do is get yourself into a good Naturopathic doctor who understand the diet/supplement changes needed in someone with OCD along with counseling. Of course you can never discount what God can do for you and I know God has done wonderful things in my life in showing me what to do for my son. If you have any questions please let me know, Carolyn

Hi Faith, Yes, I see a difference with the combination of the B6/Glycine within a day at two at most. Whatever it does, it does it real well in Daniel. Unfortunately, I understand everyone's body chemistry is slightly different so perhaps it would not work exactly the same but I honestly feel such a sense of relief knowing I have this "remedy" for him. Remember though to break the doses up during the day. You would not want to give it all at one time. Usually with the higher levels of b6/glycine I break it up in 3 doses however when it is his normal amount he gets a dose in the morning and one at night. I have noticed with Daniel that whatever the reaction is within his body, when he is exposed and does not have the right supplements going in him, his tics would come on real quick but would take up to a week to calm back down. It seems whatever happens is like a bomb that goes off in the body but the bomb takes a lot longer to get reabsorbed then it does the quickness of going off. I suppose it is because our children do not have the proper channels for getting rid of the excessive neurotransmitters that are created when the wrong food is taken in. I know for Daniel the 2nd and 3rd day are the worse by far and after that, as long as I would keep a clean diet, it would slowly go away between days 4-7 after coming in contact with the food or beverage. But now I know what to do with the glycine/B6 the process is so much faster. Regarding Bonnie, you may want to re-email her. She is pretty good at getting back to people but I know a few times I had to e-mail her twice. She will send you a form to order either by the e-mail or you can fax her. Unfortunately, she does not have a paypal type system set up yet. Regarding getting you son to swallow pills can I suggest going to the Vitamin Shoppe store and buying a small bottle of B6. The capsules are super small. Empty the capsules out and just have him practice swallowing the empty capsules. It just took my children a few times of swallowing those little capsules to get the confidence to swallow the bigger ones. I am not joking when I say my 3 year old can swallow the small capsules. Then she accidentley got hold of one of Daniel's TS-Plus vitamins and swallowed it with no problem! My 6 year old son can also swallow the TS-Plus capsules. I think it is just a matter of building some confidence. You could even use raisins to practice. Hope you enjoyed the party! Carolyn

Hi Faith! Faith first know ALL of us make the mistake of giving our children something we should not. I know the routine. Things are going pretty good so you feel like you want to give them a bit of a break from the restrictions so you give in a little. Then the cycle starts all over again. I have lived this cycle for 4 years now. Bonnie is right. I only give Daniel the 10,000 mg's of the glycine when the tics are really going. The naturopathic doctor said to do it for 8 days along with 150 mg's of B6 for 3 to 4 days (I usually only need to do 100 mg's). I break the doses up during the day usually taking them at 3 different points of the day. I can only tell you it has worked wonders for Daniel. I do know if you are dealing kidney or liver problems you need to be careful with the glycine. You should certainly do some reading up on glycine and run it by a doctor if there is concern. I don't know perhaps there are other people who need to be careful with it too. Daniel is in real good health so it was not a concern to my doctor. So after the tics come down/usually anxiety as well, we go back to the standard 4,600 mg's of glycine a day (now he is getting half of that he is doing so well) and then back to the 50 mg's of B6 in the TS-Plus (Bonnie Grimaldi's vitamins). Faith have you thought about putting your son on Bonnie's vitamins? I can only tell you I really, really believe they have been key to Daniel doing so well. It has taken a long time for them to completely be helping Daniel's body. I say this because I believe his body was so depleted it took a long time for the supplements to build up in his body so now he is in the right balance. Daniel is doing so well now, he just turned 9, and I am realizing I am not have to give him the high amounts of glycine or B6 often at all. His body is able to tolerate things he could never have done two years back. I guess my point is it may take 6 months to a year to see the effects, because the body is healing, but that time will pass anyhow. With all that said we very rarely use the NAC anymore or even the need of additional magnesium (on top of what is in Bonnie's vitamins) because he just does not need it anymore. I also am not needing to do the digestive enzymes anymore. The down sides to Bonnie's vitamins are the expensive and the quanity they have to take in a day. Daniel takes 6 in the morning and 6 at night. But he does not even think twice about it now. He actually asks me to give them to him if I have forgotten. He also knows how to swallow pills so that makes it MUCH easier! I have gotten in the habit of getting those little dixie cups, the kind you would use in the bathroom, and I divide all of his vitamins up accordingly for several days worth. This way I am not continually getting vitamins in and out of the cupboard. It just makes it very, very easy. I buy my dixie cups in bulk at Costco for expensive reasons. Faith, why are you so afraid of the glycine? How about starting out with 1/2 a dose? The naturopathic doctor explained to me what the glycine does is helps the neurotransmitters sort themselves back out by helping them run more smooth. How that works I do not know other then I know I have seen the results. The B6 helps the liver process out the toxins form the foods in the body and the extra buildup of the neurotransmitters that are throwing things off. I am sure it is doing much more then this but this is how I believe it is helping Daniel. Thoughts???? Carolyn

Hello again! Your right....school lunches are a real problem. I have done a lot of investigating of labels and the majority of them have some form of MSG in them. I pack my son's lunch every day. Here is a food list I created to give you an idea of what I feed Daniel http://www.latitudes.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=2976 . Regarding the ham, I give Daniel Hormel's Natural Choice ham. There are no nitrates in this meat. The least expensive place I have found it at is Walmart. They usually have it "on sale" for $2.98. Here is a posting I did regarding MSG and information on various names it is listed under. Also some of the foods to avoid. http://www.latitudes.org/forums/index.php?...d&pid=17225 Have a great day! Carolyn

Hello and welcome to the forum. I am so glad you have posted here. I am sure you will be real encouraged by so many people who have found help through doing things naturally. Meaning changing diets and using supplements. Here are some things I wanted to share with you. We have been dealing with tics with my son since he was 3. I have posted on here many times about all the supplements he is on. The only thing I can say is he is almost 9 and pretty much tic free now. He is heading into the peak time for tics for his age and with all of the supplements and diet change I truly believe his intestional track and liver are getting what they need now to help process out what he could not do by himself prior which was food chemicals (MSG, food dyes, high fructose corn syrup). It takes time for the body to heal once on the right supplements. I had put together my theory as to what was ultimately going on with my son's tics and why I thought Daniel was reacting to food chemicals a while back. Here is the link http://www.latitudes.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=2946 . Here are some follow up posts to that posting http://www.latitudes.org/forums/index.php?...Carolyn+N\ and http://www.latitudes.org/forums/index.php?...hl=Carolyn%5C.N . B6 has been a HUGE part of what helps Daniel. He get the 50 mg's from Bonnie Grimaldi's vitamins TS-Plus. When Daniel's tics get going I always give him an additional 50 mg's for two to three days. The magnesium taurate has been very, very helpful too. The magnesium helps calm the nervous system. It is essential for a person with tics to get magnesium going in them. There are different forms of magnesium. You want to buy one that ends in "ate". For example magneiusm taurate, magnesium citrate, magnesium glycinate. The ones that end in "ate" absorb much better in the body. The other ones do not absorb very well at all. Speaking of the TS-Plus vitamin for Daniel it has helped him so much. He has been on it since he was 5. I did not realize how much it was helping him until I tried switching to a different product and within a month his tics came back full force. Another time I tried cutting his dose in half, just to save some money, and he seemed fine for a while. Then again I think his body became depleted of the vitamins and minerals, from not getting enough, and the tics have came back. So I realized I could not "cheat" and try to save money. He is on the recommended dose for his wieght now and doing great. It is an expensive product but well worth it. The biggest pain is it is so many vitamins for him to take but it is such a part of his life and he realizes now the benefit of the vitamins which makes it so much easier. Another thing that has been sooo helpful too is Glycine. Glycine helps the neurotransmitters run more smoothly. He gets anywhere from 2500 mg's to 5000 mg's a day. When he is has really bad tics I give him 10,000 mg's for several days in a row. I use Carlson brand glycine. Another product that he takes that has been really good for him is NAC (N-Acetyl-L-Cysteine). I buy the Vitamin Shoppe brand generic form. He currently is on 600 mg's a day along with 1,000 mg's of vitamin C a day. The vitamin C is helpful when taking NAC to help prevent kidney stones from building up from what I have read. Although my doctor told me this really is not too great of a concern. But the NAC helps the body remove chemical toxins and other toxins from the body. It supplements the liver. The vitamin C is important one way or another for many reasons. But one primary reason is to lower histamine levels. Back to the NAC I know of at least 2 other people on the forum who had really good success with the NAC. It certainly would be something to run by your doctor. Have you tried giving her Benadryl or some other anti-histamine to see if her tics reduce? I know I and many others have seen a reduction in tics with Benadryl. Some people, however, will have an increase in tics when taking it but not for most. My thought is if you see a reduction in tics you know that her histamine levels are elevated which more then likely they are elevated one way or another. The other thing that really helps is taking Epsom Salts baths. Use 2 cups of epsom salts in a bath and soak at least 20 minutes. I noticed with my son that I don't see a sudden reduction in tics after the bath it is usually a couple hours later. I hope this helps some. Don't get discouraged. I have read way to many testomonies of people that once they figure out their triggers (perhaps it is food chemical, dairy products, wheat, environmental chemcials like scented candles, new carpet, chlorine etc.) and get the right supplements their tics greatly are reduced. Your body is sending you a signal and now the detective work starts. One thing I did with my son is I kept food journals of what he ate. I would rate his tics that day (I would break up the day by morning and night) and assign a number from 1 to 10. I cannot tell you how much this helped me. Within a few months I started seeing the pattern of what was causing his tics. Have a great day and I pray you find answers real soon. Carolyn N.

Are you able to get b6 vitamin? That has been really helpful to my son. He is 60 pounds and almost 9. I give him 50 mg's a day of B6. When his tics really get going I give him an additional 50 mg's of b6. He also takes a lot of other B vitamins that are in the TS-Plus. But I know that B6 is fairly inexpensive and I would hope they sell it where you live. Carolyn

Sorry I somehow double posted!

Hello, I just wanted to add, and I know there are so many directions to go, but vitamin b6 along with the magnesium taurate has been very, very helpful to my son. I give my son, who is 60 pounds now, 50 mg's a day of B6. It is in the TS-Plus that Bonnie Grimaldi sells and so is the magnesium taurate. When his tics are really going I give him an additional 50 mg's of B6 for two or three days in a row. Then I go back to the 50 mg's a day. I would say you might want to check out Bonnie Grimaldi's website, here is her testominal page, http://www.bonniegr.com/testimonials.htm . She developed these vitamins specifically for people with Tics/Tourettes/OCD. I have realized how benefical these vitamins have been although it is not an overnight fix. But people with tics are typically very depleted of the nutrients in these vitamins. So it takes a while for it to build back up in the body. But I can tell you I have been very, very pleased with them. The draw back is it is a lot of vitamins. My son takes 12 of just these a day along with other supplements. A grown person is suppose to take, I believe, 20 a day. It also runs about $70 a bottle and a bottle last a month or two depending on how many you are taking a day. Carolyn

Hello and welcome to the forum. By the way, I love what you are calling yourself "eyes on God". That is really neat. Regarding your question the intrusive thoughts and tics are very much interlinked. I have experienced this with my own son. When his tics are high so are the thoughts. I thought I would share with you some of his story. By the way, before I do that I want to tell you I have had OCD since I was a child. Recently I started taking some of the same supplements Daniel, my son, has been on and it has helped a lot. I have also started taking Inositol. That seems to be helping to. Another thing that really helped me is a book called "Brain Lock". It took me a long time, for some reason, to read it but it REALLY helped me understand how to control these unwanted thoughts. I think it would also help you understand OCD better. Although I have to say I completely disagree with the author in the respect of what is the underlying cause of the OCD since I have come to understand the diet/supplement connection. Here is a post I did a while back that explains some of the other things I have found helpful in controling the OCD. It was a post a woman did calling herself "desperate". You can read my response to her if would like http://www.latitudes.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=2623 . My son Daniel has had tics since he was 3. He is now 8 and about 56 pounds. The anxiety really started when he was about 4. Through a lot of research and prayer we have discovered his triggers for the tics/anxiety which are food chemicals (MSG, food dyes, and high fructose corn syrup) . I had put together my theory as to what was going on with why I thought Daniel was reacting with these food chemicals back in January. Here is the link http://www.latitudes.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=2946 . Here are some follow up posts to that posting http://www.latitudes.org/forums/index.php?...Carolyn+N\ and http://www.latitudes.org/forums/index.php?...hl=Carolyn%5C.N . A while back I started Daniel on something called the N-Acetyl-L-Cysteine (NAC). I was trying to save money so I cut back on the TS-Plus (Bonnie Grimaldi's multivitamin for Tourettes/OCD). The key ingredients in this multi B vitamins and Magenisium Taurate. Anyhow, I cut back from 12 to 6. I also had cut out something called Glycine that had helped him so much prior. Glycine helps balance out your neurotransmitters. But again for money reasons I was trying to cut back. But I have to tell you what happened and you will see I found out I cannot cheat his body so to speak. Daniel was doing amazingly well through the summer. I noticed literally no tics and his anxiety was low we were allowing him a lot more liberal diet then before. No MSG up to this point but allowing him to have food dyes and high fructose corn syrup in small amounts. Amounts that before certainly would have set him off. But he was doing great. Well no comes the month of September. We went camping and he had a lot of "junky stuff" that weekend still no tics. I am thinking wow this is great we really found the right answer for him and his tics/anxiety!!! So that weekend we went to Dairy Queen. Remember I had allowed no MSG up to this point. I thought ok this is the time I am going to test him. I allowed him to have 1/2 a chicken nugget with MSG. Yes just 1/2. On the way home his eyes started to bother him. Which it consistently has in the past with MSG. Within 48 hours he was having horrible anxiety. To the point I really did not know what to do. I am seriously not joking it was 1/2 a chicken nugget that set this whole thing into motion. He was having a bad head shaking tic too. I then started thinking what has happened. How can a boy be that thrown by 1/2 a chicken nugget? After thinking about it for several weeks this is what I really believe had happened. I cannot prove it but it really is what makes sense to me. I also ran it by my Natupathic doctor and he agreed with me. So what I think happened with Daniel went something like this. He eats the 1/2 a chicken nugget, his body cannot process it with the enzymes he is naturally lacking in, there is a build up of free glutamate, the free glutamate caused an increase in the neurotransmitters (dopamine ultimately), his sulfation system of his liver cannot keep up with what is going on with processing the toxins and the excessive neurotransmitters, his body that had been drained of magnesium taurate over the months of not getting enough could not help calm his system nor help process out the free glutamte from the MSG. This may be very elementary but this is my basic understanding. I don't know if you realize this but magnesium is needed in so many functions of our body. So it is very easy to drain the body including when we eat chemical foods, foods we are allergic to, and when we get stressed or excited. What happened in Daniel's case is he must have been on the tipping point back in September with his body not having what it needed since I had backed off on it months prior. It just set off a whole chain of reactions. It was interesting that prior to him going on the TS-Plus and additional magnesium taurate supplement, two years ago, he would grind his teeth horrible at night. After he was on the magnesium for the first couple months all this came to an end. Well after the chicken nugget episode the teeth grinding came back. I had read articles on the Internet with this being a sign of magnseium deficiency so all this fit the picture of his body getting depleted again. But what I have learned is at that time he needed to go back on the enzymes for breaking down protein. By having the enzymes help break down the proteins it is less taxing on his intestinal system. Some people just simply lack or are naturally low on certain enzymes. There are many, many types of enzymes in our bodies. Certain enzymes help break down certain types of foods. MSG for example needs an enzyme called diamine oxidase (this one is not one you cannot buy as a digestive enzyme unfortunately) and another one called phenolsulfotransferase. I am convinced Daniel is severely low in these enzymes. Here is a really good article I found on people who are Chemcially Sensitivity to foods and why they are. Also what you can do to help a person who is sensitive to chemcial foods. http://www.diet-and-health.net/Diseases/Ch...lAllergies.html . One thing I learned and I have not followed through on any reading of this is over 80% of people who are sensitive to chemical foods has a chromium deficiency. What this means I really do not know but it is something I want ot explore. Ok, on with my story, I now have a boy who is basically afraid to death to go to school. Daniel is convinced a boy in his class is going to kill someone because this boy is in class is somewhat erratic. His tics are now back in a fairly high level and I am completely panicked myself. Within a few weeks I was able to get into the Naturopathic doctors. I am going to share with you what did amazing things to get his tics under control and the anxiety. I don't know what conditions would not allow a person to do this so I would just ask you run it by your doctor first. But my Naturopathic doctor told me to give Daniel 150 mg's of B6 for 3 to 4 days. I divided it up during the day in smaller doses and I even woke him up at midnight to give to him. His anxiety was highest first thing in the morning so the doctor suggested getting some in him in the middle of the night to help alleviate. I had to consider how much B6 he was getting in his multi-vitamin so I would empty out some of the B6 in the capsules to make sure he was not getting over the 150 mgs. After the three to four days I was to go back to my normal dose of just over 50 mg's a day. The other thing I did for him is give him 10,000 mg's of Glycine for eight days. Glycine is an amino acid (again broken down throughout the day and even at midnight). Glycine helps the neurotransmitters run more smooth. After eight days I was to go back to the normal dose of 4600 mg's a day. Like I said earlier I had stopped giving this earlier this year but I realize now how much it was helping him. All I can tell you is by the third or fourth day of doing this I had a COMPLETELY different child on my hands. I could not believe it. I was so excited. Before I would dread my son waking up in the morning because he was clinging for dear life to me about going to school. Prior to doing this regimen, it was almost to the point where he was so obsessed over this boy at school he was paranoid. He was also getting depressed and did not want to get off the couch at all in the morning to get to school. It was all such a horrible effort. But now the boy did not bother him. Again this was after just 3 to 4 days. Again I want to caution everyone please run the B6/Glycine treatment by your doctor. My doctor knows all about Daniel's health and what supplements he is taking. There are things he probably did not share with me regarding the side effects because he knew Daniel could handle it. He did tell me with the B6 with that high of a dosage 150 mg's it was a possibility of Daniel getting neuropathy in his hands in feet. He said it would be temporary if it happened. It did not happen. But again it is something to be aware of. My doctor also told me to give Daniel at least 50 mg's of B6 immediately if he comes in contact with MSG (obviously I would have to calculate how much he already had for the day to make sure he did not go over 150 mg's). He explained to me this is what he does for his patients who get MSG headaches. He said the B6 pushes out the effects of the MSG free glutamate attack. To recap this is what Daniel is currently taking. I am completely aware with a growing boy, again he is 8 and approaching quickly the peak of tics which is around 10, I may have to change this again in the near future. Daniel again is about 56 pounds. I have listed where I purchase these items but I am sure you can get them from many different sources on the Internet and just at other retail stores. He takes 1/2 of these supplements in the morning and the other 1/2 at night. Also note the there may be some of these supplements that certain people with certain health concerns should not take. For example the N-Acetyl-Cystiene (NAC) can be hard on some peoples body, for example someone with kidney issues or diabetics, so you want to do your research and talk to your doctors.************* * Bonnie Grimaldi's TS-Plus (12 a day (I order these from her from this website http://www.bonniegr.com/ . You have to either call her, e-mail or fax her the order. She is also a very helpful lady). * additional Magnesium Taurate 250 mg a day. (I buy the brand Cardiovascular Research from the Vitamin Shoppe) * Glycine 4600 mg a day (I buy the brand Carlson from the Vitamin Shoppe). I mix this in the lemonade brand "Simply Lemonade". It just takes a little to disguise the taste and get it down. * additional 500 mg of vitamin C a day (I buy American Health Non Acidic with citrus bioflavonoids from the Vitamin Shoppe). *Omega 3 (Nordic Naturals Junior I buy at the Vitamin Shoppe) * He was taking but no longer is needing at this point....Dr. Houstons No-Phenol enzyme. I am using about 1 a day. This is to help process artifical food dyes and salicylates. (I buy these through their Internet site http://www.houston-enzymes.com/ ) * Again he was taking but no longer is needing at this point....Dr. Houstons AFP-Peptizyde (to help process proteins and carbs. It also helps improve "gut" health) (about 2 a day) (again I buy them through their internet site) * Phosphatidylserine (PS-100) 1 capsule 2 x a day (this one my Naturopathic doctor really thinks is beneficial to the brain. He said he has seen tremendous results for all kinds of things with brain function. But it is not an overnight result it takes, I believe up to two months to build in the system. Also it is rather $$$$$. I read it also helps counteract the side effects of MSG to a point). (I buy this through Sprouts and I use a brand called MRM) * pro-biotic called MindLinx (it also helps with processing gluten and getting the gut healthy). (You can purchase it through this website in either capsules or powder http://www.rockwellnutrition.com/HLC-MindL...S_p_0-1458.html ) *GABA for anxiety 1200 mg's a day. (I buy it through my GABA through my Natuopathic Doctor) *NAC (N-Acetyl-L-Cysteine) 1200 mg's a day. Make sure you take high levels of vitamin C while on this product. From what I read it will help reduce the risk of developing kidney stones. (I buy the Vitamin Shoppe brand generic version through their store) *Apple Cider Vinegar capsules 2 x a day (I buy Natural Factors at Sprouts but I am sure you can buy on the Internet) *Additonal B6 on a an needed basis. But the TS-Plus has what he needs in it and as long as things are going well I do not need to supplement in any extra. (I buy my B6 in 50 mg' amounts from Vitamin Shoppe and I buy their brand) So with all this said you can tell I have one very expensive son. We spend at least $150 or more a month on vitamins. I also have a boy who is SICK of vitamins. Who can blame him. But he is starting to understand what it means it if does not take them. The good thing is he swallows the pills so if he is just does it he can get it over with in about 3 minutes. I am truly trying to figure out where I can cut back on some of these supplements. The problem is Daniel's body just does not detoxifiy correctly. He needs all these things to help the process along. It is very frustrating but it is what it is and we just have to accept it. I have tried joining a vitamin co-op where you can get these vitamins a lot less expensive. I have been unsuccessful but would love to get involved in one if anyone knows of one that is accepting new people. I have just found a great website to buy most of the vitamins. It is called Vitacost. Also to save money when the Vitamin Shoppe does there semi-annual sale on their generic brand of vitamins. I think it is in April and September it is buy one get one 1/2 off. Also I have found their website to have better sale prices then the store for some reason. I just want to encourage you there are absolutely things that can be done for your son. I have no doubt at all. His body is not processing foods or environmental toxins correctly and is lacking in supplements. All this causes a backup of the neurotransmitters. Keep digging for answers. I know through prayer God showed us what to do for my son. I am so grateful for that. God Bless, Carolyn

Hello and welcome to the forum. I am so glad you have posted here. I am sure you will be real encouraged by so many people who have found help through doing things naturally. Meaning changing diets and using supplements. Here are some things I wanted to share with you. I had put together my theory as to what was ultimately going on with my son's tics and why I thought Daniel was reacting to food chemicals a while back. Here is the link http://www.latitudes.org/forums/index.php?...mp;hl=sulfation and also some follow up links to this post http://www.latitudes.org/forums/index.php?...Carolyn+N\ and also http://www.latitudes.org/forums/index.php?...hl=Carolyn%5C.N . We have been dealing with tics with my son since he was 3. I have posted on here many times about all the supplements he is on. The only thing I can say is he is almost 9 and pretty much tic free now. He is heading into the peak time for tics for his age and with all of the supplements and diet change I truly believe his intestional track and liver are getting what they need now to help process out what he could not do by himself prior which was food chemicals (MSG, food dyes, high fructose corn syrup). It takes time for the body to heal once on the right supplements. So don't at all give in realize that you are on the right track. B6 has been a HUGE part of what helps Daniel. He gets anywhere from 50 mg's to 100 mg's a day. He get the 50 mg's from Bonnie Grimaldi's vitamins TS-Plus. Anyway when Daniel's tics get going I always give him an additional 50 mg's. Speaking of the TS-Plus vitamin for Daniel it has helped him so much. He has been on it since he was 5. I did not realize how much it was helping him until I tried switching to a different product and within a month his tics came back full force. Another time I tried cutting his dose in half, just to save some money, and he seemed fine for a while. Then again I think his body became depleted of the vitamins and minerals, from not getting enough, and the tics have came back. So I realized I could not "cheat" and try to save money. He is on the recommended dose for his wieght now and doing great. It is an expensive product but well worth it. The biggest pain is it is so many vitamins for him to take but it is such a part of his life and he realizes now the benefit of the vitamins which makes it so much easier. Another thing that has been sooo helpful too is Glycine. Glycine helps the neurotransmitters run more smoothly. He gets anywhere from 2500 mg's to 5000 mg's a day. When he is has really bad tics I give him 10,000 mg's for several days in a row. I use Carlson brand glycine. Another product that he takes that has been really good for him is NAC (N-Acetyl-L-Cysteine). I buy the Vitamin Shoppe brand generic form. He currently is on 600 mg's a day along with 1,000 mg's of vitamin C a day. The vitamin C is helpful when taking NAC to help prevent kidney stones from building up from what I have read. Although my doctor told me this really is not too great of a concern. But the NAC helps the body remove chemical toxins and other toxins from the body. It supplements the liver. The vitamin C is important one way or another for many reasons. But one primary reason is to lower histamine levels. Back to the NAC I know of at least 2 other people on the forum who had really good success with the NAC. It certainly would be something to run by your doctor. Have you tried giving her Benadryl or some other anti-histamine to see if her tics reduce? I know I and many others have seen a reduction in tics with Benadryl. Some people, however, will have an increase in tics when taking it but not for most. My thought is if you see a reduction in tics you know that her histamine levels are elevated which more then likely they are elevated one way or another. The other thing that really helps is taking Epsom Salts baths. Use 2 cups of epsom salts in a bath and soak at least 20 minutes. I noticed with my son that I don't see a sudden reduction in tics after the bath it is usually a couple hours later. I hope this helps some. Don't get discouraged. I have read way to many testomonies of people that once they figure out their triggers (perhaps it is food chemical, dairy products, wheat, environmental chemcials like scented candles, new carpet, chlorine etc.) and get the right supplements their tics greatly are reduced. Your body is sending you a signal and now the detective work starts. One thing I did with my son is I kept food journals of what he ate. I would rate his tics that day (I would break up the day by morning and night) and assign a number from 1 to 10. I cannot tell you how much this helped me. Within a few months I started seeing the pattern of what was causing his tics. Have a great day and I pray you find answers real soon. Carolyn N.

Hello, My son Daniel, he is 8 now, has dealt with really bad anxiety. A Naturopathic doctor told me what to do and it worked really well. It was a combination of B6 (my doctor said 150 mg's for up to 5 days and then 50 mg's a day after that) and Glycine (10,000 mg's for up to 8 days and then back to the normal dose of 4,600 mgs). All I can tell you is by the third day I had a completely different boy back on my hands the anxiety was gone (he had been afraid of a particular boy at school and fire drills). It really helped to balance out his neurotransmitters. The doctor told me it would be about 3 to 4 days and I would notice a change. Daniel has also been on GABA for anxiety and that seems to have really helped too. Magnesium Taurate is also a good daily supplement to take to help keep the nervous system in order. I also took Daniel to counseling for cognitive behavioral therapy. The couseling really helped too but I have to say the supplements have done wonders. Carolyn

Here is a link I did about MSG a while back and how it effects my son http://www.latitudes.org/forums/index.php?...d&pid=17225

Hi Linda, Regarding finding a good naturopath one thing you could do is ask on this forum if anyone knows of anyone in your area. I have seen people start a new thread with "Does anyone know a good Naturopath in x,y,z city" for example. I know one of the members on this forum noticed I was from Arizona and I was able to share with her my Naturopath's name. The only way I know would be from word of mouth. I don't know of any other way. A naturopath can certainly run the tests for what kind of foods are not being processed correctly by the body. Anytime food is not being digested right it then serves up other problems like allergies. Allergies then contribute to high levels of histamine. High levels of histamine in turn effect the neurotransmitters including dopamine. Dopamine is what is thought to drive tics in most cases. Enzymes, themselves are not going to stop vocals, they are designed to help with digestion. What I have found is the body really does work as a whole and you need to address the entire body. That is what frustrates me so much with standard medicine regarding tics. A standard doctor would say that tics is a "brain" issue when for many people, including my son, it completely is driven by his body not being able to process out food chemicals. The food chemicals do not get processed out correctly and it literally is this spill over effect of the neurotransmitters being elevated because of his bodies inability. He has been on many different supplements and it has all worked together as a package. The enzymes are just one part of the picture in getting the intestional system in better working order to help the body do what it is suppose to do with processing out those things the body should not be elevated in. I know some people have found success with certain supplements for vocal tics. But for me B6, Glycine and Magnesium Taurate have been really, really helpful along with the other supplements I already posted on this thread. But again it is because it all feeds into the picture of helping my son's body do what it cannot do on it's own. I hope this makes sense. Let me know if you need me to clarify more. Carolyn

Hi Abbe, Sorry for the delay in getting back to you! First can I recommend a wonderful book called "Enzymes for Autism and Other Neurological Disorders" by Karen DeFlice. It is a great resource for Enzymes and what they can do for your body. She has an amazing story to share and very valuable information. There are different enzymes for different needs. There are enzymes for proteins, enzymes for phenols, enzymes for carbs. The question is what enzyme is the body lacking and going from there. For my son he was not digesting protein's well nor food dyes. So I had him on Dr. Houston's AFP for the protein part and the No-Phenol for the food dyes. But I ended up stopping them simply because Daniel has been doing so well with all the other supplements. But I am a BIG believer in using enzymes for the right reasons for, what can be, very good results. Carolyn

Abbe, Thanks for asking about my son. He is doing very well for the most part. The problem I struggle with is I start allowing things back in his diet that I know he should not have and it builds back up in his system. If I completly would keep his diet free of food dyes, high fructose corn syrup, and MSG (I never allow him to have this because it really, really effects him), Daniel would be tic free all the time. But because I allow him things here and there, for example a Sprite at a movie theater, then he still gets tics. But he is WAY, WAY better then he ever was at 5 and he is almost 9 now. I would say easily 95% better. I stopped using the enzymes because he was doing so well and it was one more thing to have him take. He is taking so much already and it is quite the expense. If things start turning south on us, for some reason, then enzymes would certainly be one of the first things I would do to correct the situation. Have a great evening, Carolyn

Hello, Here is a list of the supplements Daniel is currently taking... * Bonnie Grimaldi's TS-Plus (12 a day. I break them up in two doses morning and night) * additional Magnesium Taurate 125 mg a day (when tics are really going). * Glycine 4600 mg a day (Amino acid to help neurotransmitters process better) * additional 500 mg of vitamin C a day *Omega 3 (Nordic Naturals Junior) * Phosphatidylserine (this one my Naturopathic doctor really thinks is beneficial to the brain. He said he has seen tremendous results for all kinds of things with brain function. But it is not an overnight result it takes, I believe up to two months to build in the system. Also it is rather $$$$$. I read it also helps counteract the side effects of MSG to a point). * pro-biotic called MindLinx (it also helps with processing gluten and getting the gut healthy). *GABA for anxiety (we have recently not had to use) *B6 50 mg more, (this is on top of what is in the TS-Plus) only when tics or anxiety gets going As a side note a friend of mine told me about a website called Vitacost. In shopping for vitamins for the past 3 years of my life I have to say they have really good pricing. I had mainly been going through the Vitamin Shoppe but the prices on Vitacost seemed to be at least equal but mostly lower then the Vitamin Shoppe. Plus they have a standard shipping fee of $4.99 no matter what you order. You would not be able to by the TS-Plus though anywhere other then Bonnie Grimaldi's website. Here is some information regarding some foods to avoid http://www.latitudes.org/forums/index.php?...d&pid=17225 Here is a list of foods I have found that Daniel can eat and not get tics from (he is not sensitive to some other common allergens like wheat or dairy). He is only sensitive to chemical's in foods http://www.latitudes.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=2976 I hope this helps. Let me know if you need any other information. Carolyn

Sorry I accidently posted twice the same message.

Hello, I know exactly what you are referring to. My son, who has tics, would chew his clothes horrible. He would also chew pillow or other cloth items. Dr. Fiengold stated that chewing on cloth is directly related to reaction to food dyes. I have to tell you that is exactly the pattern I have found to be true. The more Daniel would be exposed to food dyes the more tics but also chewing on cloth he would do. Since we have figured this out and added a bunch of different supplements for him, for example Bonnie Grimaldi's TS-Plus, additional magnesium, NAC, Apple Cider Vinegar, Vitamin C, his tics are almost completely gone and he no longer chews on cloth. One of my neighbors sons chewed his clothing to and I told her about the link to food dyes. As soon as she cut back on the food dyes the chewing stopped. It is all how it effects the nervous system. The supplements help the nervous system and help the body process the chemicals of the dyes out of the body. Carolyn

Hello, Regarding your question whether those two are the same product the answer is they are completely different products. Carolyn

Hello, First I am so sorry for your discouragement. I had put together my theory as to what was ultimately going on with my son's tics and why I thought Daniel was reacting to food chemicals a while back. Here is the link http://www.latitudes.org/forums/index.php?...mp;hl=sulfation and also some follow up links to this post http://www.latitudes.org/forums/index.php?...Carolyn+N\ and also http://www.latitudes.org/forums/index.php?...hl=Carolyn%5C.N . We have been dealing with tics with my son since he was 3. I have posted on here many times about all the supplements he is on. The only thing I can say is he is almost 9 and pretty much tic free now. He is heading into the peak time for tics for his age and with all of the supplements and diet change I truly believe his intestional track and liver are getting what they need now to help process out what he could not do by himself prior which was food chemicals (MSG, food dyes, high fructose corn syrup). It takes time for the body to heal once on the right supplements. So don't at all give in realize that you are on the right track. B6 has been a HUGE part of what helps Daniel. He gets anywhere from 50 mg's to 100 mg's a day. He get the 50 mg's from Bonnie Grimaldi's vitamins TS-Plus. Anyway when Daniel's tics get going I always give him an additional 50 mg's. Speaking of the TS-Plus vitamin for Daniel it has helped him so much. He has been on it since he was 5. I did not realize how much it was helping him until I tried switching to a different product and within a month his tics came back full force. Another time I tried cutting his dose in half, just to save some money, and he seemed fine for a while. Then again I think his body became depleted of the vitamins and minerals, from not getting enough, and the tics have came back. So I realized I could not "cheat" and try to save money. He is on the recommended dose for his wieght now and doing great. It is an expensive product but well worth it. The biggest pain is it is so many vitamins for him to take but it is such a part of his life and he realizes now the benefit of the vitamins which makes it so much easier. Another thing that has been sooo helpful too is Glycine. Glycine helps the neurotransmitters run more smoothly. He gets anywhere from 2500 mg's to 5000 mg's a day. When he is has really bad tics I give him 10,000 mg's for several days in a row. I use Carlson brand glycine. Another product that he takes that has been really good for him is NAC (N-Acetyl-L-Cysteine). I buy the Vitamin Shoppe brand generic form. He currently is on 600 mg's a day along with 1,000 mg's of vitamin C a day. The vitamin C is helpful when taking NAC to help prevent kidney stones from building up from what I have read. Although my doctor told me this really is not too great of a concern. But the NAC helps the body remove chemical toxins and other toxins from the body. It supplements the liver. The vitamin C is important one way or another for many reasons. But one primary reason is to lower histamine levels. Back to the NAC I know of at least 2 other people on the forum who had really good success with the NAC. It certainly would be something to run by your doctor. Have you tried giving her Benadryl or some other anti-histamine to see if her tics reduce? I know I and many others have seen a reduction in tics with Benadryl. Some people, however, will have an increase in tics when taking it but not for most. My thought is if you see a reduction in tics you know that her histamine levels are elevated which more then likely they are elevated one way or another. The other thing that really helps is taking Epsom Salts baths. Use 2 cups of epsom salts in a bath and soak at least 20 minutes. I noticed with my son that I don't see a sudden reduction in tics after the bath it is usually a couple hours later. May I ask what kinds of foods she is eating. Do you buy any processed foods at all? Have a great weekend! Carolyn N.

Hello, I just wanted to mention a GREAT book to help with OCD it is called "Brain Lock" by Dr. Schwartz. It does not address the nutritional / diet / supplemental aspect of OCD, which is a shame, but it is all about the cognitive. The book has really helped me understand OCD some more. Carolyn

Hello, I have noticed with my son the first 48 hours his tics are the worst. Usually by day 6 or 7 it has calmed down a lot. But we are on a lot of supplments now and so we can speed the process up a lot. Especially with the B6 and Glycine. Carolyn

Thank you so much. That was really useful for me and has made me feel a lot better about doing it. Carolyn

Hello, I am wondering if anyone has had experience with how anethesia effects tics. Daniel needs 5 baby teeth removed and the dentist is highly recommending putting him under. They also want to give him a medicine to help him relax, prior to getting the IV, called "Oral Versed". I am concerned with his body not being able to process chemicals well how this will effect his tics. Does anyone have any experience with this? Carolyn N.