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ad_ccl For how long your son is on antibiotic ? DKRESmith As said here so many times every case is different and so is the treatment . Some case require continues use of antibiotics where as in some cases you use it to kill the strep and then stop. There are plus and minus with going with antibiotics , like you will not see Tics/OCD but what is long term effect of antibiotics and what will happen after you stop after long term use is still under evaluation. I try to use antibiotic for 10 days to kill the strep and then let body recover but in some cases you need continues use of antibiotics. So in end it is purely case to case bases and best thing is early detection of strep.

I hope they find more about this because as of now it is very complicated topic. Theory of titers is getting changed a little bit , I heard that too from a Doc in USC but there is still debate how onset of step produces excess of dopamine resulting in tics /ocd.

I was gonna post my experience with probiotics. What Ronnas been telling might be true in some cases i have a feeling my son too tics more with probiotics supplements . I have stopped those since earlier this week and i can see the improvements. Now i am sticking with oragnic horizon yougart with active cultues. Wil update this thread after some days.

Michele As Dedee said each child is different and parent has to look for what is best suited for there kid. Antibiotic theory is still up for debate as some doctors will go for it and some not. And as a parent i too don't want to use too much antibiotic. Yes my place you can buy meds from the shop but in 5 day supply only i brought this with prescription cause we went in for a viral infection and he tested his strep and results were due in 1 day from lab as they don't have rapid test so he told me to buy just in case it was +ve . It tuned out to negative and i never used it but gave me idea to keep it in case of emergency.

Exactly this is what he meant by daily use of antibiotics. May be now you will have to break this cycle of body getting use to of antibiotics and let it come down to normal. Problem is you will have to witness the tics for some time that way if infection is not there sooner or later antibody count will start to come down. that way you are giving chance to body to go back to normal drive and during that period try to improve his immunity with natural resources like fruits and vegitables and multivitamins. And may be after 15-25 days later bring in antibiotic for 7 to 10 day course and stop. This is my thinking only and it is totaly up to you what you decide what is best for your kid. About zithromax in 1st episode i was able to get from my regular doc as he gave it for 1st 5 days then 20 days later he had sinus infection in the middle of very bad tics he gave 5 more days of it but when we took that tics vanish along with sinus so he gave it for 5 more days after 10 days of course tics were very mild and then they went away . After that during summer i visited my home country and brought in some zithromax to keep handy and purchased rapid strep test kit here for early detection.

michele prophylaxis antibiotics according to this doc will take away effectiveness of antibiotics when you need so does't recommend that. Best way is to keep the PANDAS away is and get strep tested with a slight chance of sore throat and treat it if +ve. I give zithromax for 10 days after it is dectected then let the body heal it self. and try to increase the body immunity against any other attack with vegitables and vitamins.

This is his second round of tics. First tics came right after strep infection in march and lasted around 2.5 months or so. After that he was tic free and was never on any preventive antibiotics. Even in september he had viral infection which came and went through witout any tics. This time last week we all in our family had strep i think my daughter got it from school after thanksgiving . he was started on antibiotics ( zithromax) and now i am seeing his shoulder shrugs. Last time it were very bad both motor and vocal ( head shake + hmmmmmmm ) and leg bending and some more . He finshed his antibiotic 2 days ago so i am keeping my fingers crossed. I was told Even if titer count is low and negative it can still be PANDAS. right now there is not much docs around who have knowledge about it but i belive this board have lot of people who are activelty looking for answers for this . Second some time a very mild sore throat also has +ve strep. I remeber i went ot doctor earler this year for my wife and i was hving a very mild sore throat so just told them to check and it turned out to be +ve. Now i keep the strep test kit at home so it is faster and easier.

omniseph worked for him for his sinus infections 2 yrs back . We have never used for PANDAS. I have used zithromax for PANDAS and it has seemed to help. I had appoitment with a USC doc today who had done some research on PANDAS told Pen V and amox are best suited for strep infection as they wipe it out more quickly then others . But it depends on doctor to doctor and person to person what is best suited. And he also was not in favour of overuse of antibiotic for precaution. Best is one has to agressive against step and early detection and antibiotic are the key. So that body does't go in over drive to fight against strep. these antibodies attack some protein cells in basal ganglia which cause the release of excess Dopamine and it distrups the functioning of brain just like traffic jam resulting in confusion which is cause of tics /ocd in PANDAS kids.

Omniseph is strongest in all the you have mentioned. Pen V and Amox are starting one and then is Augmenton , Zithromax and Omniseph. Augmentin is mix of two ( amox + clavualnate potassium ) . It all depends on person to person which works. My kid cannot tolrate Omnis and it does't work on him.

I will like know how long the tics/ocd last lasts in second and later times in Panadas kids. My 5 year old came down with strep second time ( in fact all 4 in our family ) and sure enough tics have returend with shoulder shrugs. He had 1st episod of tics starting in last march witch ended by may end and now i can see him ticcing. Second has any one started some preventive treatment for this or any regular treatment. thanks

Glad to see you are trying to help some one you love and who needs help. I beleive 1st thing smokeing needs to go then you can put more attention . It will be slow and hard path on which both you need to go togather. I think you read Chemar's posts and some other people who have TS about vitamins and food and contols of ticks with TS. Many people on this forums has seen reduction in vocal tics with the use of acetyl-L-Carnitine and L-Carnitine . http://www.latitudes.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=687

some facts on this The United States is the World Leader in Production of Biotechnology Crops The United States accounts for nearly two-thirds of all biotechnology crops planted globally. GM food crops grown by U.S. farmers include corn, cotton, soybeans, canola, squash, and papaya. Other major producers of GM crops are Argentina, which plants primarily biotech soybeans; Canada, whose principal biotech crop is canola; Brazil, which has recently legalized the planting of GM soybeans; China, where the acreage of GM cotton continues to increase; and South Africa, where cotton is also the principle biotech crop. http://pewagbiotech.org/resources/factshee...3?FactsheetID=2 And someone here posted a link earlier here how genetic modified corn is killing insects and bees if the yeat them.

article for PANDA knowledge http://www.aafp.org/afp/20050515/1949.html

PANDAS is too complicated to understand. Child should have sudden onset ot Tics/OCD after getting strep . Tics just explode and are very wild and so is OCD. You should check oaso titers after 7 days of strep and 3 weeks later anti d-nase titers. high count of these means body is producing these to fight strep which is normal but this becomes problem for kids with pandas as it tries to attack the brain where movement control is ( basal ganaglia) . I have Panada kid but no doctor was able to detect and every one made me run around now I am going through the second episode of strep and some tics . Panada kids will get better with time as long as there is no strep again , I have seen that after may my kid started to get better and was ok till he got second strep. He even had CP vaccine in september and was ok till he hit strep . I did't go to doctor as i know this will be waste of time again as tey will just misguide you. Now i keep strep test kit at home and so do zithromax which i intend to use for 10 days insted of 5 for strep. Kids with TS have more problems with Vaccines then healthy PANDA kid and this place is loaded with information about Vaccines affects on kids with TS . Chemar is the best person to answer the questions on Vaccine affects on TS kids. You wil have to be strong and judge what is best for your kid . finding a good doctor is the key , who will listen to you and willing to work with you.

My son use to have lot of infections and whzeeing episodes and his tonsil got so big that it started to block his airways while sleeping. So i had no choice but to remove them and after a year later strep infection and tics later. Tonsils some time protect against germs and some time they habor them. Check with good ENT doc and see how big they are in sizes 1 to 4 .

My heart goes out to all the kids suffering from this and It is hard to digest that handfull of docs only beilve in this . Agreed this is a debatable thing but when kids improve overnight or with the use of antibiotic wonder why do they just ignore it . I had very hard time arguing with doctors on this in my area including a Head of Neurology in UCI. No wants to understand or listen. Dedee What is the dose of antibiotic you give to you son when he gets exposed to strep. thanks

ad_ccl I am going through the same fear of Azitromax not working. My whole family got exposed to strep from last week and all 4 of us are on azithromax. My Son which had similar tics ( motor & vocal) issues earler in the year after strep started to shrug his shoulders . I am keeping him on azith. course for 10 dys and wil know more once it finishes. Keeping my fingers crossed believe god will be there to help.

Thnaks alot Michele for sharing this great experience. I had similar issues with my son for some time and was able to get help from Murphy mostly over the phone as i am on west coast. As you said key is keeping the strep away , multivitamins , lots of vegitables and fruits ( if organic better ) , fish oil . I used zithromax and found to be highly effective in reducing the tics in past.

Dylan'Mom My heart goes out to you and your kid for enduring this all those years and very happy to read your son's doing great. I was in the similar situation with Tics started after Strep . No one agreed about PANDAS till i used antibiotics for 10days. One thing i will like to ask what do u mean by blockage. To his surprise my son had a blockage on his brain pathway to Step, the strep b antibody, as well as a blockage in his basil ganglia. He treated him for strep that day. There is a 24 hour clearing period during which we saw no change. However the next day his tics were somewhat decreased so we went back and treated the antibody. How do you determine that . If you can post that it will be a great information.

My son's tonsils and adenoids were removed last yr because he was getting too many throat infections which was causing wheezing . His tonsils were pretty large and lot of snoring was there and then it became sleep apenia and he use to gag while going in to deep sleep ( that was so scary i use to sit by his side whole night to prevent him going in to deep sleep till he was operated horrible 15 days ) . After his tonsils and adenoids were removed he still got some infections but less then before and last time strep followed by Tics .

Welcome to this forums and sorry to feel about your son. First How was he diagnosed about PANDAS. Was his o-aso and dnase titers counts high after strep infection ? those are the two things which someone should be looking for PANDAS along with +ve strep test and TIcs,ocd or Both. Second why was he put on shots , he's six and use amoxcililin or zithromax easily for antibiotic treatment. About doctors Tanya murphy is in Florida at Shands clinic you can go there i can PM you there number if required . I have been in touch with them about my son as i am on west coast. Another doctor i know has joined in Kaiser Georgia from Seattle .

L-carnitine, an amino acid derivative, is found in nearly all cells of the body. L-carnitine transports long-chain fatty acids across the inner mitochondrial membranes in the mitochondria, where they are processed by beta-oxidation to produce biological energy in the form of adenosine triphosphate or ATP. L-carnitine occurs naturally in animal products. Generally, only very small amounts of it are found in plants, with few exceptions, such as avocado and some fermented soy products, e.g. tempeh. L-carnitine is a chiral molecule. Its stereoisomer D-carnitine does not have the biological activity of L-carnitine and may even antagonize L-carnitine in its biological roles. L-carnitine is synthesized in the human body, chiefly in the liver and kidneys, from the essential amino acids L-lysine and L-methionine. Niacin, vitamins B6 and C, and iron are involved in its biosynthesis. L-carnitine is described as a conditionally essential nutrient. This refers to certain conditions where exogenous L-carnitine may be required, such as in long-term parenteral nutrition, those on valproic acid therapy and possibly for the elderly. L-carnitine is available in a few forms. Oral L-carnitine is available as a nutritional supplement and as a prescribed orphan drug treatment for primary and secondary L-carnitine deficiencies. Intravenous L-carnitine (levocarnitine) is available as a prescription orphan drug for the treatment of primary and secondary L-carnitine deficiencies. Acetyl-L-carnitine, another delivery form of both L-carnitine and acetyl groups, is available as a nutritional supplement. You can find this at most vitamins shops and body building places /gyms. Normaly people use it before they go and pump weights but it has helped to reduce tics issues as so many people have mentioned on this forum. 42$ is kinda expensive i got a 250 ml bottle for around 20$ from my vitamin shop.

Same thing , My son recently got the tics after strep and it were pretty bad . During strep he was given 5 days of antibiotics and there were no Tics. After 4/5 days of antibiotics Tics started and noone was able to help. Some how after 15 days i put back antibiotics ( zithromax) while he was still ticcing for his sinus infction and from second day Tics vanished. I continued the antibiotic for 10 days instead of 5 and after finishing those saw very mild tic return and right now he's in the process of healing back ( keeping my fingers crossed) . All the credit goes to people on this board who gave me enough knowledge to work on my son's case like Multivitamins , triggers , allergy and other stuff so i can speed up his recovery.

I think i will stay away from it i just did a random search and found this on net. Used in chinese medicines and more Rhubarb leaves contain poisonous substances. Rhubarb leaf poisoning is most often caused by oxalic acid, a corrosive and nephrotoxic acid that is abundantly present in many plants. The LD50 (median lethal dose) for pure oxalic acid is predicted to be about 375 mg/kg body weight, or about 25 g for a 65 kg (~140 lb) human. While the oxalic acid content of rhubarb leaves can vary, it averages about 0.5%, so a rather unlikely five kilograms of the extremely sour leaves would have to be consumed to reach an LD50 dose. In the petioles, the amount of oxalic acid is much lower, especially when harvested before mid-June (in the northern hemisphere), but it is still enough to cause slightly rough teeth. The roots and stems are rich in anthraquinones, such as emodin and rhein. These substances are cathartic and laxative, which explains the sporadic abuse of Rhubarb as a slimming agent. Anthraquinones are yellow or orange and may colour the urine. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhubarb

Welcome to Latitudes. You have gone through 6 pages so must have picked up lot of information. One thing concerns me in your Post is and her tonsils look reddish, swollen, and "veiny". did you check it for any strep infection and how big they are getting ( are they caueing any breathing issues while sleeping like similar to sleep apenia ) . Did she had any infection last spring post or pre to those Tics.