Help first time here

[Spartan32]

lol, yes exactly the same time about the same thing. I was looking at my multivitamin and it does contain copper. Any suggestions on a multi without copper?

[Claire]

Spartan and Chemar,

 

I got this from the Linus Pauling site (that I posted the link for above, just click on zinc or calcium, and I think magnesium too) and from Pfeiffer, and other sites. Iherbs says it too:

 

iherbs

http://healthinfo.healthgate.com/GetConten...&chunkiid=21654

 

-----Manganese; calcium; copper; iron;antacids; soy; or antibiotics in the fluoroquinolone (e.g., Cipro, Floxin) or tetracycline families: It may be advisable to separate your doses of zinc and these substances by at least 2 hours. ----

 

linus pauling site

-------Although, a number of studies did not find high calcium intakes to affect zinc absorption or zinc nutritional status, a recent study in 10 men and women indicated that 600 mg of calcium consumed with a meal decreased the absorption of zinc from that meal by 50% (45).---------

 

 

The reality is that most osteoporosis blends include cal/mag/zinc together, so I assume more people combine them than don't. Maybe it isn't an issue for most, but since we had deficiencies in all three, I am separating them based on my searching and subsequent experience.

 

I for one was supplementing zinc for a known deficiency for months. I have have sleep disturbances--multiple mid-night wakings every night for 20 years. Anyway, I took the same amount of zinc (25 mg) at night by itself, as Pfeiffer recommends, and voila--my night wakings went away within 3 days. That was 3 months ago.

 

Chemar, you also give a much higher dosage than we do, so this would potentially offset any absorption issues. We do only 250 mg mag and 500 calcium, and until recently 25 mg zinc. I have just raised the zinc to 50 mg though, apparently with the pyroluria, 25 wasn't enough.

 

Anyway, everyone is different. I am just more comfortable with a lower dosage and separated doses based on what I read and my own experiences.

 

In fact, the good news is that my son only rarely takes melatonin for sleep anymore. His sleep has improved dramatically also.

 

No ideas on multivitamins without copper. Instead of a mutlvitamin, we did a B-complex, and a special antioxidant capsule or ACES (A, C, E and selenium). I just made sure that all the vitamins were covered in other forms.

 

Maybe others here have found a mult-vite without copper.

 

Claire

[Claire]

Spartan,

 

Not sure whether you found a multivite without copper? What have you been taking--you say your tics are getting worse in a recent post.

 

I have a multivite without copper that I like and ordered. Not enough zinc/cal/mag, but those can be added and it is decent for the rest, and no copper and low manganese. I am giving it to my son until our special compound one comes in, and taking it myself.

 

http://www.kirkmanlabs.com/products/multiv...ra_hypo237.html

 

It is important to not just do some B's but have a balance. I would take any additional cal/mag with this multivite, then take zinc at bedtime.

 

You say 3 hours of computer a day? Has this increased lately, e.g. could it be a factor in the worsening, or did you always view that much? Do you use an LCD or CRT monitor? LCD's are better if the computer is a trigger in any way.

 

Claire

[Guest daniel quan]

Spartan,

My son is 5 going 6, he too has tics.

He also has allergies.

He started at 4 with vocaling(hm) and grimacing.

Then tingling hand.

Then whole body spasming..

then right arm spasming.

then yes/no head noding now..just 2 weeks ago..

 

overall is pretty mild except the vocaling/grimacing..it was the worst..because

we brought him to many docs..

since then we gave up..and he feels normal again..tics much milder.

I am seeing a child psychologist..just me not my son..

and understand that people with tics can learn to 'accept' themself and no longer embarass about themself..and tics do dimish after that recognition.

I too worry about my son will get embarrass one day..

I just pray he will find his confidence and strength..and will be okay..

We plan to be good parents to him..to love, nourish him..to teach him about life is full of

twists and turns. It is how are thinking that can pull us through. After learning that(I am still learning) then medication can come as a factor.

 

I think the board provides a lot of alternative medicine, which is great, because it can

provide a future treatment or cure, but at the same time we should keep in mind that

there is a psychological part in all this. We all go through life with happiness and sadness and that is life.

[Andy]

I have yet met a traditional doctor who wanted to find the cause of the tic. Instead all I met were doctors who wanted to suppress the tic. To me this is not practicing medicine. I would recommend to Daniel, Sparten and everyone else out there to find an alternative doctor and have testing done. Even if the tics are mild now for the young ones they can become worse and instead of waiting to see what happens you can become proactive. Check for delayed allegies, check for a deficiency of vitamins, minerals or amino acids, check for a leaky gut or high yeast and check for heavy metals. But most of all check out your insurance first and get proper referrals to save tons of money. Yes life has it's ups and downs but we do not have to accept the downs when they are avoidable and correctable. I am a big avocate for testing and removal of heavy metals not just for the TS but also because there is alot of data/research that shows traces of mercury in cancer cells as well as a correaltion on cancer increasing with the vac shots. As for the point that Daniel makes, I agree that we have to keep our kids and/or ourselves positive and keep in mind self-esteem/confidence at all times.

[Guest daniel]

Andy,

I agree with everything you say.

My son has sever allergies to tree pollens.

Tested with high yeast count.

Try Nyastin and broke out in rash for 2 weeks.

It scared us. It frustrated us when he is in special diet.

It upsetted him greatly. I am a parent. I feel his pain.

I wish the main stream doctors can wake up and look into this.

Because it is darn difficult to find an alternative doctors that does all that.

I know, his allergies is a cause for his tics. I have one tic and that is I can not help but

play with a button on a shirt but no where near what he has. However I have no allergies. No yeast , because I was never given huge doesage of antibotics when young.

But main stream docs don't buy that, so our kids suffered. It is not easy to build up ones immune system, because it is hard to find one souce or location where I can learn

about it. The chinese medicine talks about it all the time.

Even in this website , Claire and others are still gathering what works and what does not work. All kids are uniqque. I hate playing doctor . It scares me when I have to play doctor..little frustrated today..

[Claire]

Daniel,

 

You are right, we don't know yet what exactly works and what doesn't. We are learning. I suspect a year from now on this board, there will be more clear indicators of what treatments seem effective. Right now, we have more reached a state of identifying some common underlying issues, with just a little positive feedback on results.

 

As long as we test regularly and observe what works and doesn't for our child, I think we are okay. I won't follow any doctor blindly, but I do think there is more risk of issues for doing nothing than doing something at this point.

 

As for the nystatin, die-off can cause rashes, though I suppose an allergy could also. Did you stop it and try it again a couple of weeks later with a much lower dosage? Our DAN doctor made us wait until the antioxidants were higher to use Nystatin because the dead yeast is a toxin too. Something to consider (we measured this using Spectracell).

 

As I posted on my EM thread, my own rashes, likely from the glutathione lotion went away when I started epsom salt baths.

 

By the way, my son's photosensitivity was improved dramatically by the DAN treatments. I was trying to go the extra step with MT promotion to reduce supplements. Yet Jean's son has shown that a similar treatment brought more problems early.

 

So we are back to you are right, we are all figuring this out, and to me the most vital part is a good alternative doctor and going with your own parental instincts during treatment. Some doctors know much more than others, and more importantly, some are more open to continuing education. For this reason, I think our DAN doctor is awesome, if not 'all-knowing'. I come back to no choice for us to try, given my son was becoming increasingly photosensitive when I did nothing but avoid triggers. These issues are so similar to the ASD immune issues that I do think a good DAN doctor could add a lot.

 

Good luck.

 

Claire

[Guest daniel]

Claire,

One question, potato, yes..it seems to aggrevate tics..why..alkaline..?

 

-------

I agree with what you say to a lot of degree.

Here is what I don't get.

They say majority of the kids by the time they reach pueberty outgrows this.

One of my friend is a pediatrician adopted a son who has tics and he called it burned out phrase of tics.

 

Now that is a lot of years between 5 and 13, 8 years are a lot of years for this kind of tics. The child's psychology can be affected but not all cases if the parents see no problem with it and the child sees no problem with it.

 

Here is the confusing part, I have not read one article in this web site saying this is the case, where the child after reaching 13 or 14 years of age, their tics burned out.

Why? Is it because these parents no longer want to remember this and moved on.

 

Here is more confusing part, what is transient tics, chronic tics, chronic multiple tics, and

finally TS. The scary of all. What is the differences? Why I ask? It gives me hope if it is NOT TS. Sure I am scared, sure I want to do something. Matt cries at school when he is on special diet when he was 4. It killed us. It still hurts my heart.

 

I hope u know where I am coming from. I know where u are coming from. I am glad

it has been working to a degree for u. I wish u suggest. Selfishly also, because u will help me and others.

Any way does any one has stories about kids who have tics but now are tic free all on its own. Every website I found gave that blurp.

 

best wishes to all

[Claire]

Ah, potatoes, I forgot that.

 

This site is mostly parents with kids whose tics started in the last couple of years. Only one is 14/15 and that is Chemar's son, and she resolved his main issues by alt. treatment well before then. So no data there. On Braintalk, some have written in to say their kids tics resolved themselves in that time period.

 

I think those stats on improvement are historical for TS and do not necessarily reflect this new generation of kids who had mercury vaccines in the 1990's through 2001. Nor the daily up close exposure to aggravating (for many) CRT screens.

 

However, for those for whom it did/does apply....I read where zinc deficiencies are worse during growth spurt years and many issues settle after that. Or of course simple maturity. But I would never bank on the odds when it comes to my son's health.

 

I had bad skin during my teens the middle school teasing affected my self esteem for many, many years afterward. To this day I would like to have those same kids see how well I turned out. (I live in a different state now so I don't see them ever). You only get one childhood, I want my son's to be happy.

 

And I consider my son is a success from treatment from a tics standpoint. Not one tic in 18 months now. This fatigue is greatly caused by middle school and immune issues (he didn't have it before). For 2 years he couldn't tolerate even 10 minutes of CRT exposure nor big screen movies, and only limited LCD. Now the only thing I don't test is CRT--no point there. So I can't claim 100% success because I am unwilling to test him...I think CRT flicker is an aggravator regardless of tics and want no part of it (I don't even do CRT's anymore).

 

The school and the special diet require careful planning by adults. I think it is terrible the way elementary schools have a constant flow of junk food in the first place, but it is real. We solved this by always buying/bringing treats that he could eat to such events that everyone liked so he didn't feel different. Even so it wasn't perfect by any means. Kids don't want to feel different, it is awful. But food allergies are pretty common and much more accepted than tics, for better or worse. Even so when I was a teen I resented that everyone in my family got chocolate at Easter and not me due to my skin issues. I still remember that and don't think it was necessary. So no one in our house has milk or wheat.

 

I think childhood is about joy. Some parents here have made changes such that their families are more joyful now. I think much of the burden is on the parent to be superhuman--to ease their child's burdens.

 

Claire

[Andy]

"think those stats on improvement are historical for TS and do not necessarily reflect this new generation of kids who had mercury vaccines in the 1990's through 2001. Nor the daily up close exposure to aggravating (for many) CRT screens."

 

Good point Daniel. My kid started to show tics at 2 years of age when the data then stated that TS tics showed from 6 to 9 years of age. I could only hope that the tics go into remission later on for my kid but how could I do nothing while they only got worse and his profile does not seem to fit the old criteria. No one here knows the answers. I could only speak for myself that I try to look for the latest research on what is working and apply that where it fits into my son's case. This is one of the reasons why I am so big on DAN. I also agree with Claire that as time goes on and all of the research continues better methods of treatment with higher success rates will be formed. However, I can not wait for that for I am concerned that if my kid is this bad now what will he have to deal with a few years down the road plus I am concern about the damage that the heavy metals are doing to his body now. If a child ate lead based paint chips do you think any Dr. or political leader would say that the paint chips are not to blame and take some medication that was designed for something else even if it may bring you more damage. I think not. Yet that is how I feel we were treated and my son didn't eat anything but was given a vacination shot after his mother was made scared what could happen if he didn't get them.

[Claire]

Andy,

 

Great point on the lead vs mercury contrast!

 

I read an article where mercury was in teething powder causing all sorts of problems. The medical community denied any correlation, but ultimately it was removed and the problems went away for the newer babies.

 

I believe it will be the same here (well, there is still mercury in flu vaccines)--but that won't help our children.

 

Heck, we KNOW some of them have mercury at toxic levels. For the community as a whole to ignore that is no different than ignoring lead in the blood in my opinion.

 

Claire

[Guest daniel]

claire,andy,

 

Clarie, what do u forget about potatoes? Please don't keep me suspended.

My wife and kid, will not stick to the stringent diet when after a month with no apparent results. We are a society of quick fix, pop a pill in morning and u are all better.

I will wait see and offer alternative solution when it is more welcome.

Andy, have u seen improvement with your child when started with DAN.

U guys are lucky to find one. A year ago we found an environmental allergist; he gave nystatin. Second day later my kid broke out in rash. Called the doctor up, he claims it was from a viral. That is when I think he was not honest with me. He is a copy cat and not the real McCoy. God..only he was the real thing..Claire u spoke of died off..what is that..why would u get rash..? Well since then it has been a sore topic with my wife and we never talked about it again.

 

We accepted his grimacing tics with vocal..and later just vocal..and later nothing then now arms, legs and turning of head..the turning of head is frustrating and scaring us.

So the whole can of worm is opened up again. Is this TS ..Chronic..or transient?

 

I am thinking about a homeopath at this point. To get his immune system straighten out..no blood test..no elimination of diet..and see if that helps..I don't know..I am scared.

 

guys please reply soon..I feel so alone on this matter.

[Claire]

Hi Daniel,

 

Jean has experience with homeopath, you should post to her. In the end she is also seeing a DAN doctor.

 

Pfeiffer's MT promotion is intended to ultimately remove the diet restrictions. Houston Nutriceuticals enzymes may do this a bit.

 

Re Nystatin, I thought it came from potato and you were allergic to potatoes. Again, a rash isn't always a bad thing as it could mean die-off. But you need a doctor to manage it. My doctor said stop, cut back and restart until the reactions aren't bad when my son seemed to have die-off from yeast. Heather's son had a rash initially from Threelac and yeast die-off, but it went away as she cut back I believe.

 

Andy and I make the same point. Who wants to wait years to hope that it will eventually resolve.

 

My best advice is to see a DAN doctor, (from the list at the top of this forum), have them test for metals, antioxidant, vitamins, pyroluria, yeast (unless this is known, given the nystatin). Ask them about enzymes for the diet restrictions. As things progress, possible Pfeiffer for MT promotion--assuming your son is a candidate.

 

Diet restriction alone is NOT the answer for many, just as TV restriction alone isn't for others. You must heal the immune system. However, sometimes those restrictions help the body get back in balance more quickly.

 

 

Claire

[kim]

Hi Daniel,

 

I am so sorry to read about your son and the fear it's causing. I have two sons with this condition. In regards to your question about transient tics, chronic tics, tourette syndrome; I have struggled with that question. My view is, it's just a label and discribes various degrees, duration and severity of the same issue. A transient tic in theory comes and goes and has been described as a normal part of development. Chronic tics are tics that last longer, can come and go for periods of time but usually reoccur over a longer period of time. A diagonosis of Tourette syndrome is said to have to have both motor and vocal tics occuring (although

not necessarily at the same time) for a period of at least 1 year. I read somewhere that if one or the other dissapear (vocal or moter) the diagnosis of TS may not apply anymore. In the end, I'm not sure it matters. I saw a show on the Discovery channel and they said scientist believe, in some people there are more genes involved, in some people less. They showed pretty mild cases and some very severe. The man who had one of the worse cases had multiple vocal and motor tics and pretty severe obsessive compulsive disorder. He was finishing his degree to be a doctor. He was amazing. I'm wondering about the gene involvement or susceptability in a particular gene/genes. If there is a susceptability then our children may be more vulnerable, then someone with a different genetic makeup to damage cause by environmental toxins, infections, etc. etc. These are only my thoughts and there are many views on this issue and I learn something new everyday, and then I change my mind on some view I had! Hang in there, and keep reading. There are So many things to try to help control/eliminate tics, and some of the issues that can go along with it.

I am one of the newer people here, and others have a lot more knowledge and experience. I don't know anything about potatoes aggrivating tics. I sure hope not as I have been having a lot of good old meat and potatoes with tons of fresh vegtables for dinners lately.

 

Kim

[Guest daniel]

Thanks all,

2 days after the potato meal, he is almost back to the mild frequency of tics that he has. Also I am little annoyed that the electictic cable from the outside that brings the power into the house is attached to the outside of his bedroom.

I just don't know. My wife and I agree that finally we have to improve his allergy and immune system. My wife however is not willing to try so much..should probiotic be first

Although this forum has so much information and can be confusing at time, the human bonding through these chats are healthful to one's soul.

 

daniel