Fixit Posted May 22, 2010 Report Posted May 22, 2010 30 days ago ds started amox 875 2x daily..plus fluconzole 100mg 1 time as per doc t thought and now working with Ssmith...since sons pain with amox came late in dosage they thought not a reaction to meds but amox killing everything in path and fungus over growting and causing pain.... well that part seems correct and no pain...today is last day of amox....but no real benefit either... so as we were proceding we found out ds hippicuric acid was very high...and smith thought that may be correlation with of screeches... screached started 3 days into biaxin...biaxin causing rise of hippicurric acid in combo of ds being on anitbiotc several times a year with no additional probitoics.... no one ever told me and i feel like a *((&&^ *^%&**.... so ds has been screeching ever since..2/28/10 we start vancomycin to kill off other bacteria over growth, i guess that raises hippcuric acid...... i didn't' notice anything until about a week,then there is a drop off...pretty good one... schreeches here and there....maybe after being out side or late at night...but, pollens have also dropped form being in the thousands to below 100 duing this time....so i think it could be a couple of things... just like 5 screechs on 5/18 and maybe 5 on 5/19/10 on thursay 5/20/10 the last day of vanco we have NO screeches. pollen 42......yesterday 5/21/10 no screeches on 5/21/10 i was told to start nystatin..you cant stay on vanco long... nystatiin dose similar stuff as vanco but not as good.. i asked smith if i should stop amox..i only have a couple of days left anyway..i don't thinkg its doing anything and he said just finish it... (but the thought is that abx's are what brougth this about) .... today5/22/10 2 days w/o vanco......2 days of amox with just nystatin.....THE screeches are back!!!!!!!...not as bad as his worst days...but alot and there is a k and a ch....and i noticed when he puts them together quick, it could almost sound like a sneeze .......when he's watchng tv nothing....it when he's up and about walking around and other stuff Do you think its a coincidence???? Do you think it's pollen...he wasn't outside..it rained last night into today, pollen level down but there is still pollen....i have to think it's the vanco i'm scared we screwed things up by continueing amox past our dose of vanco......what should i do..???
kimballot Posted May 23, 2010 Report Posted May 23, 2010 (edited) It sounds like you are thinking that the yeast issue is playing into the screeching. I may be wrong (I am not an expert on this - just a mom with a kid who has lots of yeast issues).... my understanding is that antibiotics kill the good bacteria in the body as well as the bad stuff, so lots of the good bacteria in your gut and sinuses and other mucosal areas is removed while on antibiotics. That leaves lots of room for overgrowth of yeast and bacteria that was not affected by the antibiotic that was chosen. The vancomycin kills to other kinds of bacteria to prevent overgrowth. The nystatin kills fungus (yeast). Once you stop the antibiotic, the good bacteria can start to grow back, but there is no room for it, so it is in competition with the overgrown yeast, which can be a really beg problem. I believe that nystatin works very well on surfaces (like diaper rash cream, or oral thrush mouth rinse), but its use in pill form for gut fungus is not so clear. It may be good for long term use once things are in balance, but lots of Docs prescribe diflucan while kids are actively using antibiotics. It is also important to remember to use a probiotic (acidophilus, bifidophilus, etc) when you are on antibiotics and for a while afterward. Probiotics help to replace the good bacteria that is lost. Plain organic yogurt is also good as a probiotic. I would call the doc back and report the symptoms. I would also be careful about journaling the symptoms so you can look back on them and have a record. Also, are you using a probiotic? Edited May 23, 2010 by kimballot
Fixit Posted May 23, 2010 Author Report Posted May 23, 2010 i am am anxiously waiting to call scott in the morning.... well just started using probiotics ...but not nearly stong enough espcecially with ds abx history.... started with culturelle.... .did maybe 8-10 billion on natren scott ordered VSL #3 its supposed to be persription but cvs says its over the counter...scott said take 1/2 packet packet = 400 blilion just started that yesterday.....i'm pretty sure it was after the 1st screel/ch well it wasn't coverd by insureance and was $93 stephanie sent my linq for the one she uses ....maybe i should swithch to that......is VSL "artificial" as in cloned or somthing??? on the great plains test its says that high values are most often due to dysbiosis. bacterial overgrowth can be treated with natural anit-bacterial agents and/or 30-50 billion cfus of probiotics that include Lactobacillus rhamnosus. scale 10-400 DS=825 his citramalic and arabinose which are yeast were high and so was his 3-oxoglutaric which is a fungus Do you think its a coincidence???? it seems...just like before ...that its not so much, or at all, when he's sitting, though it dose happen......its when he stands up or is walking about......like the gassess get moving It sounds like you are thinking that the yeast issue is playing into the screeching. I may be wrong (I am not an expert on this - just a mom with a kid who has lots of yeast issues).... my understanding is that antibiotics kill the good bacteria in the body as well as the bad stuff, so lots of the good bacteria in your gut and sinuses and other mucosal areas is removed while on antibiotics. That leaves lots of room for overgrowth of yeast and bacteria that was not affected by the antibiotic that was chosen. The vancomycin kills to other kinds of bacteria to prevent overgrowth. The nystatin kills fungus (yeast). Once you stop the antibiotic, the good bacteria can start to grow back, but there is no room for it, so it is in competition with the overgrown yeast, which can be a really beg problem. I believe that nystatin works very well on surfaces (like diaper rash cream, or oral thrush mouth rinse), but its use in pill form for gut fungus is not so clear. It may be good for long term use once things are in balance, but lots of Docs prescribe diflucan while kids are actively using antibiotics. It is also important to remember to use a probiotic (acidophilus, bifidophilus, etc) when you are on antibiotics and for a while afterward. Probiotics help to replace the good bacteria that is lost. Plain organic yogurt is also good as a probiotic. I would call the doc back and report the symptoms. I would also be careful about journaling the symptoms so you can look back on them and have a record. Also, are you using a probiotic?
Stephanie2 Posted May 25, 2010 Report Posted May 25, 2010 Fixit, I know that when my ds5 went off vanco he ended up with some real problems until we finally upped the probiotics to 400 bill a day. Now he can tolerate his once a week zithro without vanco. BTW, VSL#3 is supposed to be really good, like the best probiotic. Just be aware that it has strep in it! Scott swears that this doesn't affect these kids, but in my experience my son did not tolerate a strep probiotic so I did not take his suggestion on the VSL. I went with custom probiotics and it's working well for both boys at 400 bill. I may even go a little higher. I am confused about Nystatin. I know it's main use is for yeast, and it is good for maintenance, but sometimes I hear that it also works on bacteria. You said that Scott said that nystatin will replace your use of vanco, but did you mean that it would replace fluconozole? What are you doing in terms of antibiotics now that you are done with amox? And did you mean Amox-Clav (augmentin) or just amox? Are you going without abx? Seems to me that if the screeches went away with vanco and then came back when vanco went away, then it was probably due to the bacteria (high hippuric acid). Especially since they started with the use of antibiotics! Good luck! Stephanie i am am anxiously waiting to call scott in the morning....well just started using probiotics ...but not nearly stong enough espcecially with ds abx history.... started with culturelle.... .did maybe 8-10 billion on natren scott ordered VSL #3 its supposed to be persription but cvs says its over the counter...scott said take 1/2 packet packet = 400 blilion just started that yesterday.....i'm pretty sure it was after the 1st screel/ch well it wasn't coverd by insureance and was $93 stephanie sent my linq for the one she uses ....maybe i should swithch to that......is VSL "artificial" as in cloned or somthing??? on the great plains test its says that high values are most often due to dysbiosis. bacterial overgrowth can be treated with natural anit-bacterial agents and/or 30-50 billion cfus of probiotics that include Lactobacillus rhamnosus. scale 10-400 DS=825 his citramalic and arabinose which are yeast were high and so was his 3-oxoglutaric which is a fungus Do you think its a coincidence???? it seems...just like before ...that its not so much, or at all, when he's sitting, though it dose happen......its when he stands up or is walking about......like the gassess get moving It sounds like you are thinking that the yeast issue is playing into the screeching. I may be wrong (I am not an expert on this - just a mom with a kid who has lots of yeast issues).... my understanding is that antibiotics kill the good bacteria in the body as well as the bad stuff, so lots of the good bacteria in your gut and sinuses and other mucosal areas is removed while on antibiotics. That leaves lots of room for overgrowth of yeast and bacteria that was not affected by the antibiotic that was chosen. The vancomycin kills to other kinds of bacteria to prevent overgrowth. The nystatin kills fungus (yeast). Once you stop the antibiotic, the good bacteria can start to grow back, but there is no room for it, so it is in competition with the overgrown yeast, which can be a really beg problem. I believe that nystatin works very well on surfaces (like diaper rash cream, or oral thrush mouth rinse), but its use in pill form for gut fungus is not so clear. It may be good for long term use once things are in balance, but lots of Docs prescribe diflucan while kids are actively using antibiotics. It is also important to remember to use a probiotic (acidophilus, bifidophilus, etc) when you are on antibiotics and for a while afterward. Probiotics help to replace the good bacteria that is lost. Plain organic yogurt is also good as a probiotic. I would call the doc back and report the symptoms. I would also be careful about journaling the symptoms so you can look back on them and have a record. Also, are you using a probiotic?
Stephanie2 Posted May 25, 2010 Report Posted May 25, 2010 BTW, if your son is anything llike mine you will have some SERIOUS die-off reactions when you increase the probiotics, especially if you go fast (did you say that you just put him on 400 bill one day?). If you, and he, can handle it then increase as fast as you want, but it may be rough. I found that it REALLY helps to use charcoal about an hour after giving probiotic while you are increasing. My son would go NUTS for that hour and then I would give activated charcoal (2 capsules but i think it's safe to use more) and he would calm down about 20 minutes later. Steph i am am anxiously waiting to call scott in the morning....well just started using probiotics ...but not nearly stong enough espcecially with ds abx history.... started with culturelle.... .did maybe 8-10 billion on natren scott ordered VSL #3 its supposed to be persription but cvs says its over the counter...scott said take 1/2 packet packet = 400 blilion just started that yesterday.....i'm pretty sure it was after the 1st screel/ch well it wasn't coverd by insureance and was $93 stephanie sent my linq for the one she uses ....maybe i should swithch to that......is VSL "artificial" as in cloned or somthing??? on the great plains test its says that high values are most often due to dysbiosis. bacterial overgrowth can be treated with natural anit-bacterial agents and/or 30-50 billion cfus of probiotics that include Lactobacillus rhamnosus. scale 10-400 DS=825 his citramalic and arabinose which are yeast were high and so was his 3-oxoglutaric which is a fungus Do you think its a coincidence???? it seems...just like before ...that its not so much, or at all, when he's sitting, though it dose happen......its when he stands up or is walking about......like the gassess get moving It sounds like you are thinking that the yeast issue is playing into the screeching. I may be wrong (I am not an expert on this - just a mom with a kid who has lots of yeast issues).... my understanding is that antibiotics kill the good bacteria in the body as well as the bad stuff, so lots of the good bacteria in your gut and sinuses and other mucosal areas is removed while on antibiotics. That leaves lots of room for overgrowth of yeast and bacteria that was not affected by the antibiotic that was chosen. The vancomycin kills to other kinds of bacteria to prevent overgrowth. The nystatin kills fungus (yeast). Once you stop the antibiotic, the good bacteria can start to grow back, but there is no room for it, so it is in competition with the overgrown yeast, which can be a really beg problem. I believe that nystatin works very well on surfaces (like diaper rash cream, or oral thrush mouth rinse), but its use in pill form for gut fungus is not so clear. It may be good for long term use once things are in balance, but lots of Docs prescribe diflucan while kids are actively using antibiotics. It is also important to remember to use a probiotic (acidophilus, bifidophilus, etc) when you are on antibiotics and for a while afterward. Probiotics help to replace the good bacteria that is lost. Plain organic yogurt is also good as a probiotic. I would call the doc back and report the symptoms. I would also be careful about journaling the symptoms so you can look back on them and have a record. Also, are you using a probiotic?
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