Is your PANDA a bright bulb?

[Joan Pandas Mom]

My son is very bright but PANDAS gets in the way. When he was really young at bedtime, he would practice math under his covers with a flashlight. He was in advanced math until PANDAS got too bad. In 6th grade, he was tested to see if he could stay in advanced math but they took points off for not showing his work. I was amazed at what he was doing in his head. I think the school thought it was too stressful. He scored average in most of his IQ testing except verbal was 92 percentile. One of the OCD specialist we saw, before we knew he had PANDAS, told us that most kids or people with OCD are very, very intelligent. She feels the OCD is the body or brain trying to balance that intelligence.

[ajcire]

Norcalmom, my son is in second grade and very bright in math as well...and is totally annoyed at having to show his work.. but his teacher has drilled in to him that unfortunately on the stupid state tests if he doesn't show his work he will lose more than half credit even if he gets the right answer.... they are doing multiplying right now and he has to draw a picture, write an adding sentence and then write a multiplication sentence... He keeps asking why he has to do so many steps for a one step problem. His teacher said that the way they have to do the math is usually frustrating for her bright students. His teacher knows it's crazy but knows she has to teach to the test. I don't fault her but those stupid tests are making my kid have to take steps backward.

[Stephanie2]

I voted for my 5 year old, but it did not let me vote again for my 2 yo. My 5 year old tested high-average intelligence but did not test in the gifted range. My 2 yo on the other hand, I would not be surprised at all if he goes on to test gifted. he just seems to "get it" without needing to be told how to do something. I turn around and he is doing something I wouldnt' expect from someone his age. Problem is he is quite speech delayed so I don't know how that will eventually play into it all.

 

I will say this, my 5 year old does math in his head, but he has no interest in learning to read (he CAN sound out words, just HATES doing it!!! ugh!).

 

Stephanie

Edited April 30, 2010 by Stephanie2

[bronxmom2]

Norcalmom, I have to comment on this post because you have described my son exactly... though he is only 7 and would be in second grade if he were in school.

His mind is just "different"-- frequent cycling through intense interests-- panics in the face of easy questions-- I actually can't teach him anything but try to simply lay the groundwork for him to understand it in his own way-- the "explanations" in the book only confuse him and freak him out. He can easily convert fractions into percentages but cannot add 6+3 in his head without suffering apparent agonies. With my son, too, "something" is getting in the way, and his teachers (when he was school) described it as unlike anything they'd seen before. This ADHD-like affliction seems to be one of the most tenacious features of PANDAS. I have been tracking other parents who describe similar difficulties, and I have never seen anyone describe this "symptom" cured. The other things-- the OCD, the mood problems, the rages, the hyperactivity and the rages go away but this weird cognitive issue remains, or as you say, perhaps it was there all along and is part of what put them at risk in the first place.

 

My son is incredibly brilliant and incredibly frustrating. He seems to already know (and understand) everything I try to teach him. School was a train wreck. Last year (before I knew about PANDAS) I had a complete psych eval done, including an IQ test and achievement testing, and I am so glad I did this because it gave me some confidence in his abilities and made me feel secure in taking him out of school and letting him follow his own path. Like Thomas Edison, right?

 

I would love to understand why the gifted brain is so much more vulnerable, but I am quite sure it is.

 

I believe that I suffer(ed) from an early manifestation of PANDAS. I went through my childhood with a palpable sense of being different, an acute and chronic sensation of guilt, a tendency to narrate my own actions (I subsequently wrote two novels), and uncanny mathematical abilities. Then I became suicidal, so I know where this could lead. It's real.

 

Good luck. Don't medicate for ADHD. I don't believe stimulants will work for our kids. (Though Sammy from Saving Sammy did have success with Strattera.)

[smartyjones]

"Here, (laughing) it's ca-ca chromatic".

 

He thinks differently.

 

We are in the middle of an assessment with a psychologist that knows both giftedness and learning disabilities.

 

I wonder how many pandas kids also have ADD? And what came first? Are they bright because they have pandas ( their brains are working differently), or is their intelligence a risk factor? I think we assume the later, but who knows for sure since most of us in retrospect think some of those "quirky" behaviors our kids have had forever were subclinical symptoms?

 

norcalmom - please keep us posted on the results of your assessment - i'd be very interested to know!! our psych has suggested something similar but told us to wait until he's solidly in his 6th year and the middle of first grade to get the best assessment.

 

hilarious about the ca-ca chromatic -- sounds so much like my son - when in a phase, turns so much into poop related -- it is annoying but also fascinating. there is something different about it that is not just 'normal' boy talk.

 

incredibly interesting concept of what came first. lately, i tend to think the former - that there's something going on in their brains - inflammation, 'inappropriate' synapse, enzyme reaction - the same that causes the problems, also creates the giftendess.

 

my son has always had exceptiona spatial/visual discrimination - working on puzzles/patterns far beyond his age, immediately seeing patterns. he always seemed to have that, not that it came out when his pandas symptoms surfaced. when he was in crisis, it was so intense, i don't seem to remember him doing much that was exceptional. i know he had strep at 22 months and believe he never kicked that infection. were the exceptional qualities the other side of the sword that surfaced at 4.5 years old?

 

i feel medically he's doing 'okay'. not in crisis, not totally healthy. i do feel while still bright, he's doesn't seem to have that same ability that would make people's (not just us as his parents) jaws drop when they saw his mind work. did he simply arrive at a mental developmental stage earlier than his age and now it has balanced out? is his brain now quieting and healing and functioning more 'normally'? so fascinating but i guess we'll never know for sure.

[ajcire]

my son has always had exceptiona spatial/visual discrimination - working on puzzles/patterns far beyond his age, immediately seeing patterns. he always seemed to have that, not that it came out when his pandas symptoms surfaced. when he was in crisis, it was so intense, i don't seem to remember him doing much that was exceptional. i know he had strep at 22 months and believe he never kicked that infection. were the exceptional qualities the other side of the sword that surfaced at 4.5 years old?

 

 

 

My son sees things in patterns too.... always has. We always say it would be be amazing and scary to be inside his head for a bit.

[norcalmom]

I hate the way they teach elementary school math now. The focus is on reasoning, weather or not they are reasoning correctly doesn't really matter. It is also biased toward kids that are good at writting. My daughter, although very bright, is not gifted in math. She is however, quite a writer. She could get the answer wrong, fill half the page with her "reasoning" and get 9.5/10. My son, will do the problem in his head, write the final answer down, and get half (or less) credit..then be chastised by teacher (and me) for no "showing your work" (or even better, "explain your answer") . She feels great - but hasn't learned a thing, and he feels bad, but has mastered the material.

I thought of another old example of his brain working differently. He didn't like to draw much as a kid and I remember when her was 4 or 5 he made a picture of a car, and I thought to myself "wow, this kid really cannot draw - I can't make out a car in this at all" then he showed me where everything was. He drew the picture in plan view - from above, like looking into a convertible. Just a little thing, but not how most kids (or even adults) would think to draw a car.

I'll let you know how I feel about the value of the eval when we get through it.

Food for thought -Einstein had some nickname (cow?hyenna? -can't remember) because he would randomly yell out that animal sound animal sound when he was in grade school (tic?). He also had kleptomania. Wonder what other OCD or tics he had.

[bgbarnes]

My ds7 was talking in complete sentences before 18 months- walked, talked etc. EARLY! We have a zillion educators in the family and all have said he is gifted- but only tested high intelligence not gifted. He is gifted in Mat hand his statistic and probability scores on the MAP tests test him from the 95% of 9th graders to the 87% of 12th graders. His mid year math scores had him at the over 95% for the grade higher (3rd) for the end of the year. HE is an incredible reader and reads FAST with great comprehension. I do think PANDAS and now learning food allergies have gotten in the way- it all depends on where he is "at" when they tested him. When they tested for gifted- I think he was starting an exacerbation- we did not know about PANDAS so he did not get in- I was not even told when they tested him. I also don't think the gifted teacher likes my ds...they had to develop pull out math for him because he was ahead of the rest of the class but I had the teacher pull back because he was having such a rough time with PANDAS etc....we missed a lot of school and we are petitioning to repeat 2nd grade again b/c he is so young- PANDAS and we think socially it will help- so I have sort of blown off pushing him right now.....

now for the Mom being a Math/science on Dr K's description...definitely NOT- I was a language/history anything to avoid math and science kind of girl!

Brandy

[nomoz]

I know we have explored this topic before informally, and I keep running across posts in the forum that seem to indicate that many, many of our kids are bright little boogers!

 

So, I thought I'd start a poll and see if that's a mis-impression, or if it is a real finding. Plus, I know Dr. K.'s web site links mathematic acumen in families with PANDAS tendencies, etc.

 

And then that's led me to want to know something about the science, and I'm hoping some of you scientifically-minded folks can chime in.

 

Certainly, nobody would make the argument that inflammation encourages or feeds intellect, right? So, that's off the table. What might be some commonalities at play, then? Are dopamine, CamKII, or any of the other brain chemicals we associate with PANDAS thought to be associated with intelligence? Or could the blood brain barrier be involved somehow, with "brain food" nutrients more readily absorbed by our kids than the non-PANDAS variety?

 

Or is it all just a coincidence?

 

My daughter is a young second grader, having only turned 7 in September of 09. She has missed just shy of 30 school days this year from PANDAS related problems. She just took her PSSA tests, and scored in the top 3% of the nation! And she is always bringing home great grades, despite focusing minimal time on homework.

Yes, I think you are on to something here..