Anxiety

[ilovedogs]

I know many of you on these boards have kids that have many different issues. I'm usually over on the tics/tourettes side of the board but I need advice for handling anxiety. My son has anxiety that's very unpredictable right now. We'll have 3 days of no issues and then crying about anxious thoughts one morning and then an issue at bedtime and then we'll have 2 days of nothing. It's driving me crazy. What's also puzzling is that ds never goes to my dh with his problems. Actually, my dh has yet to see these tears of which I speak and he works from home!!! So, my dh is thinking that ds is manipulating me with his emotions. Not saying that he doesn't have anxiety but that he may be playing it up to get attention. Again, all just theory. I would never say that he doesn't have anxiety b/c I know he does and I've seen the intrusive thoughts get pretty bad at times.

 

I guess what I'm looking for is suggestions for handling it around the house. We homeschool (have homeschooled from the very beginning) and we've seen every type of anxiety you can think of. I know my ds is just an anxious, nervous kid. He plays competitive tennis and plays in tournaments and we stay active by hiking, bike riding, walking, and visiting with friends. He has a very easy life in general so I just wish I had some better tactics to handling his anxiety. We've been through counseling for about a year and our naturopath has him on some supplements that take the edge off but don't seem to be helping as much now as they were before. I've contemplated meds but I'm really leary of them right now. We've also thought of the PANDAs route but I saw no change in his tics/anxiety when he did 10 days of an antibiotic and he's only had strep once in his life. He had the tics and anxiety well before his bout with strep, too. Anyway, I'm not ruling that out right now but I need day to day advice on how to handle anxiety. Thanks

 

Bonnie

[mk8898]

Bonnie - During our first BAD (and hopefully last) PANDAS episode our son had SEVERE anxiety. Once we started on the antibiotics the anexity slowly started getting better. However, I would say about 80% of the time our ds came to me for help instead of dad. During this time dh was in denial of PANDAS and had a hard time accepting it. I think our ds felt like he could let it all go with me. I know this doesn't help much and it's alot of stress on your part. Hang in there !!!

 

Michelle

[faith]

Bonnie,

I think most of the 'letting go' on behavior usually falls to the mom because they know we love them unconditionally and we are their safe place. I think that's why the moms see more of this than others, so it may seem to you like he has so much fears and anxiety, but it may just be that he is unloading it all on you for the above reasons. my son doesn't pull any of the stuff he does with me. my husband is always saying 'well, he doesn't act like that with me", or 'why doesn't he do that with me', and when, on the rare occassion (yea, that was sarcastic, lol) that I go out alone and they stay home together, I get the report that he did everything my husband told him, and they were in bed by 9:30, no problem. (is there an eyeroll smiley?)

 

so sometimes kids may play us a little more. I know your son probably does have these anxieties, not downplaying it, but my point being that you just see more of it. My only advice is to try not to feed into it? maybe try to act like its no big deal, everyone feels like that sometime? when we were going to 'art therapy' with a local therapis (another eyeroll moment), it was supposed to be for the ocd, but I don't think it helped for she mostly helped us with 'parenting skills'....but one thing she told me was that if a child senses that YOU are insecure, then he will be too. in other words, you have to be adamant around him, even with discipline and punishment and saying what you mean and meaning what you say, or if the child senses that you are back peddling and unsure of yourself (meaning you give in and don't follow thru) then he sees that and it just brings more insecurity for him. She said that kids who get punished more often and their parents stick to what they say and don't give in, are more secure than those whose parents threaten but don't follow thru. don't know if I'm explaining that right, but I hope you get the gist. p.s. I am guilty of the above.....

 

Faith

[ilovedogs]

Faith, it's interesting what you said about discipline. We ruled with an iron fist in ds' formative years. I have no reason to punish him for anything these days b/c his transgressions are so few and far between and he feels so awful if he does something that I feel like he's punishing himself enough. I actually feel that we were too hard on him b/c I didn't know he would end up anxious, etc. Some days I feel guilty for being so hard on him in the beginning. There was no whining, no crying, no complaining. We nipped those bad behaviors in the bud by the time he was 3 or 4. Not sure if we did the right thing but it's too late now.

 

As for the anxiety, I understand where you're coming from with the whole mom/dad thing. I know he needs more structure and I've been thinking about making a chore chart for him to do and check off during the day. Maybe just small accomplishments to focus on so that when he gets anxious I can ask him about his chores and redirect him to do those things. Also, when I speak to ds about his anxiety I tell him that we all have fearful thoughts and that they are just thoughts and that we can control our reaction to them. We don't have to sit and cry about them, we can tell ourselves that it's just a thought, it's not true, and that you can push past the thought and think of something positive. He listens(through tears) and then says that, "He can't b/c the thought just won't leave him alone." It's like he just doesn't have the capacity to filter his thoughts. So, I made an appointment with the old therapist we used last year and we'll be going back next week for a 'tune up'.

 

B

[dcmom]

Bonnie- My daughter had lots of anxiety during pandas episodes. It had different forms: seperation anxiety, some social anxiety, and for most part just overall generalized anxiety. It is one of the hardest things to see. We saw a psychologist, who mainly gave me ways to help as her mom. My dd is young, 6, 5 at the time. The overall ideas we discussed were making sure we helped her to feel secure. We would do things that cause anxiety in baby steps, and try to be very positive about it. We would ask dd for ideas on what might help her, we used rewards. It was hard. As soon as the antibiotics started taking the edge off of the anxiety, some of these strategies worked.

 

Although my dh was supportive, and realized what was going on, he could at times default to the "your trying to blame everything on pandas" thing. This was not the case, though. Also, by nature, he would not see everything. He works a lot, and I am a SAHM, so most times I do: morning routine, school drop off, meals, homework, extracurriculars, doctors appts, bath and yes, bedtime. (Well when I list it like that, it sounds bad- but I guess he does bring home the bacon...) These were the events that usually brought about some anxiety.

 

So, if it is not pandas, I think I would try to find a really great psychologist, that maybe only you (and occasionally dh) see, to help you strategize. It is also nice to have a somewhat impartial shoulder to cry on sometimes. If you have not thoroughly investigated pandas, I will tell you: it did take my dd about 30 days of daily zithromax to see an improvement (10 days did nothing)- so don't use 10 days of abx as your only criteria for counting out pandas. I don't know your story, but just mention that because you noted the antibiotics in your post.

 

I know there must be some great books out there too....

 

Hang in there...

[smartyjones]

my son has anxiety issues as a big part of his pandas presentation. it's been mostly situational anxiety with school phobia and potty phobia. a fully year before pandas presentation, he had potty phobia when we tried to potty train him. it was so frustrating b/c no one could give us any help b/c no one would listen to me that it was like a phobia not a power struggle.

 

this past summer - 2 years after potty training - in sheer frustration b/c the 3rd professional we'd consulted was useless - i found anxietybc.com on the web. not sure why i'd never found it before. i think they have very helpful info and they're very responsive in e-mail. we were able to conquer the potty phobia with 73 days of a desensitization program from that website.

good luck.

[Megs_Mom]

I tell him that we all have fearful thoughts and that they are just thoughts and that we can control our reaction to them. We don't have to sit and cry about them, we can tell ourselves that it's just a thought, it's not true, and that you can push past the thought and think of something positive. He listens(through tears) and then says that, "He can't b/c the thought just won't leave him alone." It's like he just doesn't have the capacity to filter his thoughts. So, I made an appointment with the old therapist we used last year and we'll be going back next week for a 'tune up'.

 

B

 

There is a type of OCD called "bad thoughts" OCD. It is treated with ERP therapy. If you have an old therapist that is used to anxiety, be sure to ask if they are specifically trained on ERP. Regular talk therapy does not work for OCD.

[dcmom]

ilovedogs- It is interesting what you said- because my daughter's therapist did explain that a lot of ocd is the inability of the brain to filter certain thoughts...

[thereishope]

Hello. If you don't mind me asking, does he have TS or TS and OCD? First, I'm going to address it from a PANDAS angle, many here say they needed more time on antibiotics other than a 10 day script. They also often need something stronger than amoxicillan. Something to think about if you want to wander down the possible PANDAS path again. Also, some with PANDAS notice Ibruprofen helps with tics, anxiety, etc. So, if you're curious, that's something you can try and just see if you notice any improvement. It's not a definitve test, but something to try. As for strep, well, some do not have strep being the original trigger. Also, the possibility of undiagnosed strep is there. My son, for example, never has symptoms of strep. His behavior is what brings me in for a test.

 

Okay, so that's the PANDAS part.A lot of kids have that parent they go to for comfort, the parent they go to for fun, etc. For my son, well for all my kids, I'm it. I have the patience and I am not going to simply tell them to "grow up' or "get over it" What techniques has the therapist given you? Are you able to reason through the anxiety? Is there a trend of the same thing causing the anxiety like fear of not making you happy, not doing good enough, does he think something bad will happen to him or the family?

 

I ask these questions so maybe we can undertsand where the anxiety is coming from or give a specific techniques to help.

[ilovedogs]

Vickie, his anxiety is all over the board. One minute he's crying about a bad dream. The next it's about thinking that I'm going to die in my sleep. Then the next fear is over a commercial he saw for a scary TV show. Then he's crying about something from a Spongebob episode that was scary. And, yes, most times I can reason him through it or I can tell him to use his breathing techniques and most times(not all) it does seem to work. Some days, though, I just get tired of it.

 

Oh, he doesn't have TS according to the docs. He has a tic disorder and GAD(generalized anxiety disorder). They still haven't labeled him with OCD yet, and I haven't asked why. We're seeing his therapist next week and I'll be asking these questions soon.

[thereishope]

Let me think on this a little. For awhile my son had fears like that. Even things like SpongeBob. He'd be fine during the show then the thoughts would get him after he was in bed trying ot fall asleep. The worst was an epsiode of "Fairly Odd Parents". Oh, do I remember that one. A dead hamster that was brought back to life then tried to kill the parents. Boy, I was not paying attention to the tv when should have been. Anyway, he was fine during the show, he went to bed and the thoughts started. The characters in the show were "alive" in his head. Trying to get him,not leaving him alone. It took over an hour that night to get him to fall asleep. It was different than a typical nightmare.I had to yell at the thoughts to leave him alone since they wouldn't listen to him.

 

Another time, I broke my toe and for the next few weeks I had to keep reasurring him he didn't break a bone or he wouldn't break a bone.

 

Sorry for my rant. I think you can go online and get an OCD test to complete on your own if that's something you'd be interested doing ahead of time. Some of things I had to answer on my son's test had to do with the things you mentioned.

 

As for techniques when he gets upset over something is the usual breathing, counting to ten over and over, etc. But when it's things like you said, I associated those with his OCD that was present and that's when we did more things that were like CBT (like when I tried to get him to yell at the bad thoughts or I ended up yelling at them for him)or ERP.

[dcmom]

Ilovedogs- why did you decide he doesn't have pandas. I mean if it is not TS- then why not pandas. And that they haven't labeled it ocd, my daughter had TONS of anxiety and some ocd- but her psychologist definately felt it was not classic ocd. Her "issues" would totally morph between weekly sessions, also.

 

I wish you the best...

[matis_mom]

ilovedogs,

I have to agree with the others that 10 days on antibiotics with no change, and few or no confirmed strep infections are no reason to rule out PANDAS. My son has strep in the gut, so the symptoms are not that noticeable, and definitely not what people tipically consider strep. Have they run any blood work to check his antibodies? Does he have any GI issues?

Your son sounds a lot like mine. While some kids "let it all out" and have the rages/out of control behavior, for others the battle is all in their mind. It is so hard to help them out! My son has a lot of anxiety, accompanied by OCD and some tics. He is very reserved, and usually opens up only with me, ocassionally with his dad. I don't think he's doing it to get attention. I just think it's easier for him to talk to you. And if it is PANDAS, there is not a whole lot you can do to decrease the anxiety until he gets proper treatment. Before we knew what it was, we tried talking to him, reasuring him, trying to ignore him, whatever. The point is the anxiety is there simply because his brain is swollen and sending him the wrong signals. So I would first rule out PANDAS, or any other physical component. Another thing you can do is to start a journal and see if you can tie the increase in anxiety to any other factors (food, rest, exposure to illness, stress, etc). It might take some time to find the trigger.

As for managing the logistics of trying to get through the day, we found deep breaths helped him to relax a bit. It also helps to talk about those irrational toughts at a calmer time and try to get him to admit that these are indeed IRRATIONAL thoughts, and therefore if they come again, he should do his best to dismiss them. We used a book called "Stop Obsessing", it has a lot of good ideas. Like someone else mentioned, some obsessions are just in the mind, there is no behavior or external trigger attached to it, but they are still obsessions, and they are very disruptive.

Anyway, you have worked with a therapist before and I'm sure you are aware of many of these things, but don't give up on trying to find the root cause of his anxiety. Hopefully it's not PANDAS (I wouldn't wish it to anyone!)

BTW, we homeschool too and have had to get creative about our schedule in order to get things done, but we are managing.

Isabel

[dcmom]

Mati's mom- I am interested in the strep in the gut issue. How did you know- is there a test? What were his GI symptoms? How do you get rid of it, antibiotics?

thanks

[thereishope]

The psychologist we met with for the residual OCD said the same thing. It was not classic, textbook OCD. He had some classic OCD tendencies, habits, and rituals, but it was still different.

 

 

Ilovedogs- why did you decide he doesn't have pandas. I mean if it is not TS- then why not pandas. And that they haven't labeled it ocd, my daughter had TONS of anxiety and some ocd- but her psychologist definately felt it was not classic ocd. Her "issues" would totally morph between weekly sessions, also.

 

I wish you the best...