kim Posted October 8, 2009 Report Posted October 8, 2009 I keep trying to figure out just what the significance of this is. http://www.upi.com/Health_News/2009/10/02/...72051254507608/ Study: OCD, Tourette's not caused by strep Are they saying that because there weren't more confirmed cases of strep in the ts/ocd group than in the regular population that there isn't an association? Just going by the little info available here, it seems that this is one poorly designed study to attach that strong of a title to it. If it would have been titled "No apparent increase in confirmed strep in TS/OCD patients than in general population," MAYBE (altho i don't know what that really proves either), but where do they get off with the conclusion suggested in that title?
faith Posted October 8, 2009 Report Posted October 8, 2009 That is the lamest article I've ever read about this subject. What kind of British "researchers" are these? the point is not that strep causes it, everyone has equal opportunity to get strep, and they do. These subjects are people? well, they missed the point that the strep connection is usually something that affects children and is more of a pediatric disorder. and they don't mention anything about PANDAS anyway. the problem with strep is only to people (kids) who have an autoimmune response to it. It sounds like they got half the story from playing a drunken game of "telephone" and then did a high school experiment to prove or disprove the theory. annoying.
kim Posted October 8, 2009 Author Report Posted October 8, 2009 hey Faith, i was afraid i was just really dense today. I'm just scratching my head here. Look at this http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/...0930165028.htm# In the group with OCD, 15 percent had been exposed to a possible strep infection within two years of diagnosis. There was a similar rate among the comparative group of people without OCD. In the group with Tourette syndrome or other tic disorders, 10 percent had been exposed to a possible strep infection within two years of diagnosis, similar to people without the disorder. Researchers also looked at possible strep infections within five years of diagnosis of a strep infection.exposed to possible strep infection? How in the world do you determine if someone was exposed to a possible strep infection....then the statement about five years? I'm missing something. It just gets better. Why do they keep saying "possible strep infections?" The researchers found that people with OCD or Tourette syndrome and tics were no more likely to have had possible strep infections compared to people without these disorders at two years and five years.
kim Posted October 8, 2009 Author Report Posted October 8, 2009 The study was supported by the Tourette Syndrome Association. Well good spending of resources guys.
faith Posted October 8, 2009 Report Posted October 8, 2009 same thing there. it looks like they "heard about something" like strep causing ts/ocd, but that's only half the story. Kim, while you're here, how are your guys doing? I've done more than 8 weeks of chiro work....can't say anything has really come of it. Faith
EAMom Posted October 8, 2009 Report Posted October 8, 2009 Hmmm...isn't anyone that goes to school with other kids "exposed to strep" at some point during the year? I mean if you get a strep notice in school (we got 2-3 last year), that means your kid was possibly exposed to strep. For every strep notice you get there's got to be 100x more exposures (since kids are carriers and can be carriers for months or years, or kids have strep without knowing it), that don't result in a strep notice. Many people (particularly PANDAS) are exposed to strep (or have strep, but don't know it b/c they don't get typical symptoms and the doctor never does a culture) and they don't know it (the illness is always presumed viral...which is what happened to us). SAVING SAMMY is a perfect example...he obvioiusly was exposed to strep (or had strep) b/c he had PANDAS (and high ASO) and responded to antibiotics. But, if his mom didn't know to test him (or if he was one of the unlucky PANDAS kids that didn't get a ASO titer rise) then nobody would have ever known that he was "exposed to strep." Oh Kim, I find the tourettes association to be really irritating...they are completely anti-PANDAS.
kim Posted October 8, 2009 Author Report Posted October 8, 2009 It almost seems like they must have asked these people if they remember being around anyone with a sore throat. Can you see asking "do you remember being around anyone with a sore throat 5 years prior to the onset of your OCD?" I just can't come up with any other reason for the phrasing. It's almost comical. EAmom, I was so disgusted when a Dr. associated with TSA made a statement about there being no higher incidence of tics in kids within a thimerosal/neuro disorder study then in the general population. That wasn't the point at all. It specifically showed that children who recieved higher amounts of thimerosal had a higher incidence of tics. This same study made headlines on every news channel about.....yet another study showing no association of neurological problems in relationship to thimerosal. If I were serious about helping people with TS, and that association was found in 3 different studies, I'd want to know why. It has been totally blown off as far as I can see. I'm not sure that they are an association that is really interested in "cause" maybe more about new drugs? Maybe this isn't fair as I don't know that much about them.
melanie Posted October 8, 2009 Report Posted October 8, 2009 I keep trying to figure out just what the significance of this is. http://www.upi.com/Health_News/2009/10/02/...72051254507608/ Study: OCD, Tourette's not caused by strep Are they saying that because there weren't more confirmed cases of strep in the ts/ocd group than in the regular population that there isn't an association? Just going by the little info available here, it seems that this is one poorly designed study to attach that strong of a title to it. If it would have been titled "No apparent increase in confirmed strep in TS/OCD patients than in general population," MAYBE (altho i don't know what that really proves either), but where do they get off with the conclusion suggested in that title? I made a comment at the bottom of the page( Oh I feel like one of those bloggers )I wrote" think you need to look into this more before you make such a determination.My son has tics tourettes and it was caused by strep"!!!
kim Posted October 8, 2009 Author Report Posted October 8, 2009 humm another article on this study http://www.medpagetoday.com/InfectiousDise...nControl/16216# In an accompanying editorial, Donald L. Gilbert, MD, MS, of Cincinnati Children's Hospital Medical Center, and Roger Kurlan, MD, of the University of Rochester Medical Center, wrote that despite the study's limitations the findings suggest that PANDAS is probably not a common condition.
peglem Posted October 8, 2009 Report Posted October 8, 2009 The point of this study was....?????? I don't get it. They were trying to prove that people w/ OCD/tics have not had more exposure to strep than other people???!!!! I just don't understand what would motivate anyone to even do this study and then pretend like it refutes Swedo's studies. Do they really not understand the meaning & the whole point of Swedo's work?
kim Posted October 8, 2009 Author Report Posted October 8, 2009 Buster's summary of different findings/views including Kurlan's http://www.latitudes.org/forums/index.php?...4&hl=Kurlan
colleenrn Posted October 8, 2009 Report Posted October 8, 2009 The researchers found little evidence of a link between infection and OCD. "The only association found was that cases with OCD were more likely to have had possible [streptococcal infections] not treated with antibiotics in the two years prior to diagnosis than controls," they wrote. So, if they were more likely to have had untreated strep in the past two years, is that not evidence?? Or am I reading it wrong? I am waiting for the day when the strep connection is proven 100% and known by all. What will these silly people say then?? "Gee. Whoops, we were wrong. Let's go back and find all the children we have harmed by our careless claims of the "controversial" strep connection." Colleen
EAMom Posted October 8, 2009 Report Posted October 8, 2009 Colleen....Seems like an association to me. Just like untreated strep can trigger rheumatic fever.
colleenrn Posted October 8, 2009 Report Posted October 8, 2009 FYI, in case anyone is interested in contacting Dr. Schrag. She will be getting an email from me. Anette-Eleonore Schrag title: Dr department: Clinical Neuroscience email: a.schrag@medsch.ucl.ac.uk phone: +44 20 7794 0500 x 36773 internal-phone: #6 292 x36773 Colleen
EAMom Posted October 8, 2009 Report Posted October 8, 2009 does anyone have access to the full original study?
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