Bad thoughts with TICS/OCD?

[myrose]

My daughter got herself into trouble at school today. This is the first time she has ever had an issue at school. She LOVES school to death and the teachers are even baffled on this one. It is completely and totally out of her character!!!

She pushed a girl today while they were in the playground. She did not have an argument with this girl or anything. She was not even playing with her!!! My 5 year old daughter just went up to her and pushed her!!!! She pushed her hard enough for the other girl to fall and cut her LIP!!

I had a long talk with my daughter after the incident and I really ecpected to hear that maybe she did not like the girl or the girl did something to her prior to it all...just something that would make sense.

instead she repeated to me several times and even told her teacher that she did not want to do it or mean to do it but her brain told her to do it. A few months back my daughter used to tell me that her brain was telling her to say bad words. I thought nothing of it at the time until all this stuff started.

Could this be bad thoughts in her head that are linked with ocd??? I am not sure if she has Ocd. She absouleltly has sensory issues and tics (motor and now vocval) but this is a first and I can tell my daughter was completely telling me the truth.

It was almost lately as if she turned into a whole completely different person. She does have an attitude at times but mostly she is just the sweetest little thing. Kind and gentle. nothing like what she has been acting like.

She also said today sshe had a sore throat but never mentioned it again afterwards.

I am REALLY worried about this bad thought thing.............has anyone else experienced this? Do you think she is just being a typical bad 5 year old and needs disicpline or can she help it??? I AM SO CONFUSED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PLEASE HELP

[Caryn]

I remember having many a bad day like that with Tigger before we made all our dietary changes. He had done a few whoppers in his first year at preschool. Once he pushed a boy onto the tile floor during potty time. Thankfully the boy did not get hurt. Then a weird thing happened when we talked afterwards (with the teacher). As a matter of fact my son laughed and it was so strange. I was so embarrassed and felt so helpless, out of control, and like such a failure at that moment. This was during the height of his ticcing and behavioral issues. At that time he used to have daily meltdowns and often told me that "he was going to be naughty" even when there didn't appear to be just cause. It was like there was this urge within him to release tensions. He never meant to purposely hurt others, but he was so darn impulsive that he just kept finding himself in precarious situations.

I will tell you this, when we changed his diet the boy changed. His teacher will attest to that. She told me four months later that he was a completely different kid. It did not happen overnight, but the change over that four months was dramatic, too dramatic to say he had 'just matured'. Things that I read later really pointed to possible causations:

1. inappropriate laughter could be a phenol/salicylate issue
   
2. anger outbursts/irritability could point to pyroluria
   
3. compulsions/'hearing voices telling you to do something' may be tied to a gut imbalance....
   

Our son had some strange compulsions when he was at his worst, and they were scary. These behaviors faded and have never returned since we started his diet and stuck to it 'religiously' for nearly a year. Our son had 'sore throats' last year and was tested for Strep antibodies but his results were normal. We never did go the PANDAS route after that although his presentation was very similar to what many PANDAS parents discuss here. He had a sudden onset of symptoms and they slowly waxed on until he was unable to attend school for two weeks last winter. This year no one knows he was diagnosed with a chronic tic disorder. No one knows he struggled with ADHD symptoms or had behavioral problems. If you haven't already looked into IgG testing it may be a good option. If you are not sure if the PANDAS dx fits your case then maybe you should look at food allergies as a culprit. I hope this helps. I know the desperation you feel. I've been there. It can and does get better. This is the hardest part, figuring it out.

 

Caryn

[michele]

The ADHD part of this syndrome causes the kids to act before thinking. My son has had many anger outbursts. He sometimes talks too much and at the wrong times. He gets too loud on the bus. Even once pushed his friend when they were not agreeing on something. I made him call and apologize and told him how he would lose friends if he was mean to them. He also talks about his brain telling him to do things. I think that might be their conscious mind. However they need to stop and think before they act on impulse. My son always insists he is the only one to get into trouble not the other kid. The ADD/H will cause them more trouble in general then the tics. That is what we are dealing with. If the brain is misfiring and causing them to not listen they don't do well in school how do they learn. I am struggling with this ADD thing now. To medicate or not? I am seeing him falling behind in school. Plus he is so emotional all the time. Dr. told me Abilify is supposed to help with attention, impulse, tics and emotions. I am going to research it more.

 

Michele

 

My daughter got herself into trouble at school today. This is the first time she has ever had an issue at school. She LOVES school to death and the teachers are even baffled on this one. It is completely and totally out of her character!!!

She pushed a girl today while they were in the playground. She did not have an argument with this girl or anything. She was not even playing with her!!! My 5 year old daughter just went up to her and pushed her!!!! She pushed her hard enough for the other girl to fall and cut her LIP!!

I had a long talk with my daughter after the incident and I really ecpected to hear that maybe she did not like the girl or the girl did something to her prior to it all...just something that would make sense.

instead she repeated to me several times and even told her teacher that she did not want to do it or mean to do it but her brain told her to do it. A few months back my daughter used to tell me that her brain was telling her to say bad words. I thought nothing of it at the time until all this stuff started.

Could this be bad thoughts in her head that are linked with ocd??? I am not sure if she has Ocd. She absouleltly has sensory issues and tics (motor and now vocval) but this is a first and I can tell my daughter was completely telling me the truth.

It was almost lately as if she turned into a whole completely different person. She does have an attitude at times but mostly she is just the sweetest little thing. Kind and gentle. nothing like what she has been acting like.

She also said today sshe had a sore throat but never mentioned it again afterwards.

I am REALLY worried about this bad thought thing.............has anyone else experienced this? Do you think she is just being a typical bad 5 year old and needs disicpline or can she help it??? I AM SO CONFUSED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PLEASE HELP

[ad_ccl]

get her throat swabbed asap. I am not sure your history and if PANDAS is suspected - but lack of empathy can be a big one with PANDAS - and changes in personality. My son did things WAY out of character when he first got sick. And did comment later that his brain felt twisted around. He knew what he was saying/doing was not right but could not help it.

[P_Mom]

I agree with AD-CCL, get her throat CULTURED (grown for atleast 48 hrs., try for 72, swabs can't be trusted completely). Also, if you haven't done it already or even if you have, get ASO and Anti DNAase B titer ran ASAP!! Now is the time to check for this PANDAS/PITANDS thing.. don't miss the boat, it can't hurt to check.

Kelly

 

Have you tried antibiotics???

 

You described VERY similiar situations my son experienced with his PANDAS.

[Chemar]

Jasminky

 

when my son's OCD was at its worst, his focus was very much on "my mind told me to"

 

it became even worse when he was on meds (luvox) for OCD

 

once we started him on his supplements and began to boost his serotonin levels, that aspect of his OCD stabilized, altho we still see OCD up when either illness or some other trigger (artificial food stuff!!!!) enters in

 

and yes, altho my son was not PANDAS, there is a very clear link to these kinds of sudden intense OCDs and strep

[mom2a]

My son's "bad thoughts" which I put in the catagory of OCD is GREATLY effected by dairy products. If he ingest dairy of any kind....20 minutes later his worries will kick off folllowed by bad thoughts. When dairy isn't in his diet...he never complains about it! it's truly amazing to me!!!!

 

Good Luck!

[myrose]

Caryn, Thank you so much for your reply. This really scared me to death! Can you tell me about Igh and what it will show and also how it is preformed (Also which doctor does it) A Dan?? Thank you again so much for your reply

[myrose]

michele, I am working with diet now and started natureal calm. Could you possibly let me know what you find about abilfy? I will research as well. Thanks so much for your reply. Whenever we seem to get one thing under control and start breathing again...another thing pops up! This whole thing is truly overwhelming me!

[myrose]

ad ccl- My daughter tested positive for strep on Feb 13th. She was prescribed amoxocillin and after 7 days on it she broke out in little red dots or spots. I brought her in and they said it was a reaction to the amoxicillin. They then put her on zithromax for 3 days. So she was on antibiotic for a total of 11 days. she stopped them on Feb 25, just nine days ago. She also was tested for pandas last August. The doctor said the results were normal. I called to get a copy of them (someone on the board suggested this) but still have not received them. What do you think????

Thanks so much for your reply! This gets harder and harder to deal with sometimes. I wish it all would go away for everyone.

[myrose]

dkresmith...can you read my above reply to ad ccl and let me know what you think? thanks so much for your reply. I truly do appreciate it.

[myrose]

Chemar...thanks so much for your reply. What supplements help with OCD? We started the magnesium tonight...Well the natural calm anyhow. I took it with her and so she drank it right down. We had a little tea party. Do you feel that magnesium can help with the OCD or no? Thanks again I really appreciate all the reposnses i have got. Just when I am MAYBE starting to understand one thing...another one comes along. I guess i will be researching and visiting these boards for many years to come. Thank You again

[myrose]

mom2a- can you tell me how you tested for the dairy issues. My daughter was on Soy formula as a baby and never drank cow milk. Still does not. She really doesn't like eggs. She does though have a yogurt or two a day. But she has always done this. she also does not have a big variety of foods that likes or will eat. Her diet in other words is very limited as it is.

[Chemar]

Hi Jasminky

 

people with OCD usually are deficient in serotonin

 

one of the safest ways to elevate serotonin is with INOSITOL, a B vitamin, available from most health stores

 

stronger natural ways are with either 5HTP (5 hydroxytryptophan) or pure tryptophan. Different people react differently to these and so if you do try either of them, start at lowest dose to check and do NOT use together...it is either/or

 

methionine is excellent too for OCD (samE being a more expensive but very good form of it)

 

melatonin, used by some for sleep, is also helpful in the serotonin system

 

no one on SSRI should ever take additional serotonin boosters as this can lead to serotonin syndrome, which is dangerous

 

sorry to be so brief as I dont have much time this morning, but maybe check those out with your doc

 

 

Chemar...thanks so much for your reply. What supplements help with OCD? We started the magnesium tonight...Well the natural calm anyhow. I took it with her and so she drank it right down. We had a little tea party. Do you feel that magnesium can help with the OCD or no? Thanks again I really appreciate all the reposnses i have got. Just when I am MAYBE starting to understand one thing...another one comes along. I guess i will be researching and visiting these boards for many years to come. Thank You again

[kim]

Jasminsky,

 

Were the little red spots itchy? What happened to the spots when you stopped amox?

Can you look up the word petachias (not sure i spelled that right, but it should be close) and see if that sounds like what your daughter had? I can't explain why I'm asking, but it is one of those nagging things that sticks in my mind from a previous poster here. I hope parents with PANDAS kids or even ticcy kids without clear PANDAS symptoms will keep an eye out for that.