Bonnies Vitamins

[ad_ccl]

Hi everyone,

 

I am thinking of ordering Bonnie's vitamins - seems they have everything in them - and it would make life a little easier - less bottles of stuff around. I would love to hear how people like them - and also what dose you give - the recommended dose - or less? Seems like a lot of pills - I am hoping they are small.

 

Thanks in advance,

[emma1]

I was expecting small little round pills. These are large, oblong pills. They are not small at all!

[itsme]

Hi Ad ccl,

 

We give our son the recommended dose printed on the bottle and he does quite well. He just takes then like i do - straight down with water.

 

It is alot of pills but not near as maby as if he had to take them separately.

[ad_ccl]

Thanks everyone. We got the vitamins - and started (no problem swallowing) - we are starting slow - just one a day, then two etc. I am not sure it is a great time to start them - as my PANDAS son has been exposed to strep so was on a full dose of azith - we started the vitamins the day he stopped the full dose - he had a vocal tic today - sort of a throat clearing. Who knows what it is related to - yeast from the increase in antibiotics? Anyway - I am going to just see what happens. Will keep you posted.

 

Would be interested to hear from anyone who saw an increase in tics with Bonnies.

[itsme]

Hi adccl,

 

Our son increased in tics with bonnies vits for about 3 weeks than there was improvement.

 

He's doing quite well for past 5 months.

[ad_ccl]

Thanks itsme,

 

How much of an increase did you see? How many pills does your son take? How big is he?

We thought we would build to 10 a day - I think by weight it should be 15.

How many did you start with?

What level of increase did you see?

[emma1]

Ad_cci, My daughter is older, but had tics/ocd start suddenly and has very high strep titres. Her symptoms dramatically improve while on antibiotics. She also takes Bonnie's vitamins.

 

For about a week after we stopped antibiotics, she was pretty good -- some symptoms but mild. Then, it was like we were back to square one! She was put on another course of antibiotics, and once again we are OK -- the symptoms are not gone, but they are at the level that only I notice them.

 

I saw your child was PANDAS, and so I was wondering what else you had tried. Chemar indicated to me that some children with PANDAS have found success on the Bontech vitamins, but that they are designed for children who have TS. (I am a little confused on that -- if your child develops a tic from a strep infection, and it lasts more than a year, do you have TS?)

 

Anyway, from reading posts, I am thinking different supplements might be in order for a child with PANDAS. But, I am also getting the feeling that each situation is different, and that even if your child is PANDAS it is not one size fits all.

 

As my daughter is older, she is supposed to take something like 15 pills. Once I get those in her, with the antibiotic, it is hard to ask her to take even more. It was very disappointing to see her back with symptoms when off antibiotics.

 

From what I have researched fish oil is very good (though you have to find one with Omega 6 or Omega 9, which is hard). That seems to be the only supplement everyone agrees on -- and even then, some children will react to the fish oil and tic more! I have been giving my daughter a supplement that has Omega 9 in it, and stopped that yesterday.

 

I am also thinking of adding inositol (my doctor actually suggested that and I had been reading independently about it) for the ocd symptoms, and either grapeseed/opc or monolaurin to improve the immune system. We already use two probiotics (because of all the antibiotics) and I am thinking about digestive enzymes. She also takes Zyrtec, and I know this sounds crazy, but I think it actually helps too.

 

I have only had her on the Bontech for about 5 weeks -- maybe that is too short a time to know anything. So I am also thinking of staying the course, as I believe they recommend two months minimum. As I re-read my post, I am not sure how this could help you -- sorry!!!

 

Good luck -- I so hope this works for you.

[Chemar]

Chemar indicated to me that some children with PANDAS have found success on the Bontech vitamins, but that they are designed for children who have TS. (I am a little confused on that -- if your child develops a tic from a strep infection, and it lasts more than a year, do you have TS?)

 

hi Emma

no, IMHO, a child with PANDAS who has tics for more than a year does not always have a TS dx.

Some children with the predisposition in their genetic makeup for Tourette, may have their TS triggered or "switched on" because of the neurological effects of the strep in PANDAS, but I would be careful of accepting a TS dx in a child who has no familial history or other TS markers. I honestly feel that TS dx are too quickly given these days, when there is clear evidence that tics can be induced by a whole lot of other things and seem to resolve once those issues are dealt with eg PANDAS & PITANDS, pyroluria, heavy metal toxicity, allergies(food and environmental), photosensitivity, candida yeast infections, nutritional deficiencies etc etc

 

Anyway, from reading posts, I am thinking different supplements might be in order for a child with PANDAS. But, I am also getting the feeling that each situation is different, and that even if your child is PANDAS it is not one size fits all.

very well put. Individual biochemistry, metabolism, genetics, history of illness, etc etc make a big difference in what works best

 

 

 

From what I have researched fish oil is very good (though you have to find one with Omega 6 or Omega 9, which is hard). That seems to be the only supplement everyone agrees on -- and even then, some children will react to the fish oil and tic more! I have been giving my daughter a supplement that has Omega 9 in it, and stopped that yesterday.

 

emma, do remember that if your child has PANDAS, then autoimmune issues and likely inflammation are high, and therefore you want to AVOID omega 6 & 9 and ADD more omega 3. The 6&9 promote inflammation while the omega3 dampens it. That is what is wanted in autoimmune/inflammatory illnesses...to reduce inflammatory agents and not to supplement with things that assist the inflammatory response.

And yes, Omega 3 from IMO a combination of flish and flaxseed is best, but we do have many reports(my own son's included) in those with TS not handling the fishoil as well as the flaxseed.

 

My son tries to up his intake of omega3 by also eating more alaskan wild salmon (we do NOT ever use farmed fish as who knows what they are being fed...certainly the salmon at our local supermarket has a label saying "color enhanced with feed"..........hmmmmm

and it is known that farmed fish have antibiotics etc in the water to prevent illness and other stuff to stop pollution sooooooo

 

 

I am also thinking of adding inositol (my doctor actually suggested that and I had been reading independently about it) for the ocd symptoms, and either grapeseed/opc or monolaurin to improve the immune system.

Inositol is really good for OCD

but

again becasue of PANDAS being an autoimmune illness, you want to be careful on upping the immune system too much as that is going to make things worse. Grapeseed extract and pycnogenol are excellent immune boosters, but we were told to stop them for my son becasue of the autoimmune problems with his Crohn's.

Monolauren is a natural antimicrobial (anti bacteria, virus and fungus) and so IMO a good thing to take. We use it too. But only for a few weeks when needed. You dont want to develop a tolerance there.

 

Cheri

[itsme]

Thanks itsme,

 

How much of an increase did you see? How many pills does your son take? How big is he?

We thought we would build to 10 a day - I think by weight it should be 15.

How many did you start with?

What level of increase did you see?

 

 

His tics increased Dramatically we had him up to 10 per day on day 3.

 

Building slowly is a good idea. We sarted with 3, day two 6 and day three and beyond 10. He is 45 lbs.

[emma1]

Cheri,

 

Thank you so much for your reply. I have so much to learn!!!

 

I checked your son's protocal and did see you were giving him Grapeseed and Inositol. So, do you still give those, even with the Crohn's, or did you stop those after diagnosis of Crohn's? (Or perhaps they are OK, but in lower doses?)

 

Are there any other commonly used supplements that I should be avoiding -- magnesium, zinc, lecithin, etc?

 

Again, thank you so much! I realize now that I need to so very, very slowly. I am still trying to figure out the right multi (looking at those liquids!), and then I am going to add slowly. Last time, I thought I was adding slowly, but because she was on the antibiotic, I really didn't have a clue what was/was not working. While on the antibiotic all was pretty good, and then we stopped, and things got crazy again (and she was taking a cupful of pills each day).

 

Emma

[Chemar]

Hi Emma

 

he still takes Inositol for the OCD, as well as his calcium/magnesium and zinc, but as mentioned above, once we got the Crohn's dx we were advised to stop the grapeseed extract and pycnogenol along with all supplementary Omega 6&9

 

I must stress again that grapeseed extract (NOT grapefruit as some confuse it) and pynogenol and all those other immune boosters are excellent supplements for people with TS etc

 

the only reason we now avoid then is that they are contraindicated in autoimmune illness

[emma1]

I just reviewed the Bontech ingredients again, and I see that they contain Grapeseed Extract, which I thought was not good for those with autoimmune disorders (like PANDAS). Chemar just informed me of this on another thread.

 

I had been using Bontech, but decided to stop because of the Grapeseed, and because when we went off antibiotics, I did not see that we were "improved."

 

I want to thank all of those who keep trying to help me understand this. I know I am getting so much more from this site than I am giving, especially as my daughter's situation seems to be so unique (PANDAS-type in a 16 year old)!

[Chemar]

emma

 

sometimes with PANDAS, long term antibiotics combined with a specifically designed supplement protocol are needed.

 

My reference on the other thread to the grapeseed extract was based on what we were advised re my son's Crohns Disease, which is also autimmune. As I havent personally dealt with having a PANDAS child, I dont know what the doc's advise there, but would think it is the same overall approach to modulate rather than stimulate the immune system

[kim]

Alison,

 

I lost your question on the other thread, but I think you asked if my boys had an increase in tics with Bonnies vit.

 

Neither did, but my oldest son said his heart was pounding when we got up to around 15? I guess it could have been a sensitivity to an ingredient, or I have kind of suspected, not utilizing the vit B.

 

I started my youngest son on an individual vit B. His facial tics did decrease, but he felt hyper, again maybe a problem with B instead of P5P, yet decrease in tics, so I jjust don't know

 

Neither of the boys use full dose. Oldest settled around 10-12 (and he's a big boy, now almost 6'1 and about 170 lbs!) and youngest is taking around 8. I would like to see him take more, but I also give him extra biotin, fish oil, enzymes, magnesium, etc. There are only so many, I can get into him in one day, especially since he never really has a full stomach, due to the "grazing," he does, and his limited diet.

 

About the azith and mag, I learned that lesson the hard way. My son probably would not have gotten that first staph infection if the dermatologist would have checked (I brought all of my sons vits with me) to see that cal and mag will diminish the effects of doxycycline. I know they can interact with orap/pimozide, certain blood pressure medications and azith. I'm sure there are others. These are not always easy to find. Sometimes, you have to check several sites. Most articles say to take at least 3 hours apart, if I remember right.

 

I'm a little concerned about the use of the Bontech vits for your son now, in light of the grape seed extract. I see they have 70 mgs/per 10 vits. When I checked the supplements on a few sites, it appeared they were 100 mgs, so the bontech vits are probably a high enough amt. that you will want to consider if this could be harmful to your son. Emma1, kicked up a good point there.

[ad_ccl]

Hi Kim, Emma, Chemar

 

I agree about the concern with the Grapeseed Extract. We are only up to 2 a day but his vocal tic is worse - there are so many other things that could be contributing, the recent exposure to strep being the biggest (Although we did do a round of full dose azith) Today is his antibiotic day - so I will see how things go through the day and tomorrow. I am going to go back to my usual multivitamin. My littlest one is still coughing - as am I so we have had a bad viral infection. I am going to take the two younger one's in to do a swab - a follow up on the middle one and a check on the little one.

 

Thanks for all the advise - once things settle down again I will try Bonnies again - when there are not so many other things going on.