Can chicken pox booster be a trigger?

[kim]

Sorry, for anyone trying to follow this that the link didn't work. I fixed it. This paragraph in particular was important in this article. http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/na...1,3983094.story

 

But the data also hinted that blocking the targeted strains might have opened an ecological niche that allowed the flourishing of HPV strains previously considered to be minor players, partially offsetting the vaccine's protection.

[skyler]

Faith,

 

My son had started to tic a little again, after not having any since last fall. It was very slight - a couple times an hour, maybe, for 3 or for days prior to the vaccine. Just enough so that I thought "Oh no, not that again!" It was about 24 hours after the booster that the tics just exploded. It was intense for a day or so, and has since waned to a low level again.

 

As for why we did the booster. There has been a big breakout of chickenpox around here - in most cases the children just had the vaccine 2-3 years ago and now have chicken pox! Great vaccine, eh? Anyway, I just didn't have my thinking cap on when the doctor said he suggested getting the booster. My son has never had a noticeable reaction to vaccines before, so I just wasn't in a questioning frame of mind.

 

I'm going to refuse all boosters from now on.

 

So, my son is doing well on the Kid's Calm. Screen time seems to be a trigger for him, so we have cut that way down. Going to get the PANDAS test to see what is going on there, and we'll just take it step by step. I'm feeling hopeful.

 

Sky

[Cum Passus]

Hey Faith,

 

Our son also had no noticable reaction to vaccines before the last set. (given at age 12) bam he exploded about 6 weeks later.

 

I never had him get the flu shots. I'm sure the vaccines on top of puberty, is the cause of the explosion.

 

The vaccines have got to be the main cause, or I would have noticed ticcing as a problem before that time.

 

Last Fall his screeming tic on the ball field was unbelievable. This spring, not one parent can tell he has TS.

 

C.P.

[faith]

Thanks everyone,

That is really something to think about and make me want to read more on that subject (thanks Kim) -- so its not just vaccines in infancy, but later as well that could be a menace? With all the controversey about them, it certainly should be optional at this point. I'm not even wondering what to do, I KNOW that I don't want any more vaccines for my son due to his tic issue, the only dilemna I have is HOW I will be able to get around this. (On my son's health form for school, under emergency info, I wrote in "Do not give any tetanus shots without prior consent of parent), cause I heard a kid just got that after getting hurt at school (don't know details).

 

Now, here's a question-or observation-

Does anyone think maybe THAT is why the consensus is that in regards to this disorder, that "tics seem to be at worst or at its height around age 10-12" ? Maybe that has always been the reason --the vaccines given at that age -- not necessarily puberty? (although that probably doesn't help) Back a ways, nobody put two and two together concerning vaccines , so that was never noted - I don't know, just a thought.

 

Faith

[kim]

I really didn't want to get into all of my thoughts on vaccines because it is such a huge topic, but I didn't know how to answer Faith's question without getting into a bit of it. Besides, who other than the parents of our kids, who may well have issues with the immune system, would benefit more from being informed. I hope EVERY parent takes the time to look at vaccines very hard and critically. Otherwise, we will remain at the mercy of some, who may not be putting these recommendations forth with nothing but the health and best interest of our children in mind ($$$$$).

 

These are just my thoughts and are certainly not intended to sway any other parents decision on this subject.

 

Varecella/chicken pox, has me stumped. My boys have both had one dose. Now they find that one, isn't very effective. They are older now. Both the vax and the natural disease are going to cause antibody formation (although this isn't always the case). If there is a flair relating to TS, will it be an autoimmune reaction or just the stress of the body working to cope with illness or the vax or a vax ingredient? I think we have an opportunity on this forum to track it (thank you for your post Sky and everyone else who has remarked...Caryn, CP, Faith). For parents choosing to do the vaccines, it would be very helpful to report what you see. For those choosing not to vax/continue vaxing, it would be helpful to know how they/their children react to the natural illness, too.

 

I think I mentioned once before that I have a 33 year old friend on another forum. He developed TS and extreme episodes of anxiety following a natural case of chickenpox at age 12. Also, chicken pox is generally harder for an adult to recover from, although I'm not really worried about it being life threatening, just the effects on an older person with special circumstances to begin with.

 

Now, this is what ANGERs me about the articles that I posted above. They KNEW by eradicating the varicella virus, that people who had had the natural chicken pox were no longer going to be exposed to "boosters" by infected persons in the environment. This is required to keep the lingering virus inactive, and prevent it from reemerging in the form of shingles. How many of you have heard of the shingles vax? It's out there now. Also, there are quite a few parents reporting shingles in children who have received the varicella vax. So, even if we continue to vax for Varicella, will our kids get shingles? Will they get the shingles vax then too? Right now it's recommended for older people (I believe over 60?) but as time goes on, we may see that age lowered/ Within a few years, maybe they will be giving that to toddlers too. I find this trend really frightening. This same scenario was laid out in an article I posted here somewhere, regarding HIB. Apparently, the Hib vax was quite effective in reducing the incidence of Hib disease, BUT the incidence of Pneumonia went UP. The author predicted that a Pneumonia vax would be added to the schedule. It was.

 

If I were to get the boys the TdaP it would be their SIXTH vax of this combo (the first five were DTaP). Now they want adults to get this TdaP too, because they say that our immunity has waned, and we are infecting the youngsters. Well how darn effective can this vax be, if we are STILL infecting kids who are receiving 5 and 6 doses of these things? They are mainly worried about Pertussis which is most dangerous to infants under one year of age. Well instead of vaccinating the entire population every 5 years, maybe they should work on a more effective treatment for Pertussis! This vax, unlike Varicella contains aluminum. However, the process involved in the manufacturing V. doesn't make me sleep well either.

 

The article on Gardasil, I thought made the case quite well on how different studies, can come to different conclusions. The remark about other strains filling the void left by eradicated strains of the HPV virus, again demonstrates how we may be lowering the incidence of one disease and increasing the odds of another. Will the emerging stain be more invasive or difficult to treat?

 

I really couldn't justify not continuing to vax on fears of TS related symptoms, because the natural illness could produce the same effect if looking at autoimmunity. Vax ingredients and metals (alum and definitley thimerosal)are a huge concern so that was a check in the "never again" category, but once I saw all of the other possibilities of problems with this program, it became much easier to make my decision.

 

Personally, like Laurensmom said recently,I feel the risk of vaccinating outweighs the risk of the disease, but I will continue to keep an eye out for information, and others experiences with chicken pox. I hope if anyone or their child has had this naturally, you will let us know how it went.

[Guest]

Hi Kim,

 

I had the chicken pox naturally at a year old. I also had blood poisoning from the chicken pox. I didn't have any tics from naturally having the chicken pox that I'm aware of. It would have been a year away from the time my sensory issues started so that's quite some time apart. Anyways that's my experience with the chicken pox.

 

Carolyn

[skyler]

Kim,

 

Wow. Thanks for such a great response. You brought up so many great issues/thoughts on this matter. Gave me a lot to think about. I really had a knee-jerk reaction to what just happened with us and the chicken pox vax. I hadn't thought about what could happen if the child gets chicken pox naturally.

 

Sky

[powerofprayer]

Hi Kim,

I had the chicken pso naturally at about 6 years of age. Can't remember when I started ticcing but my earlilest memory was probably around 10 or 11. (vocal and motor) I've gotten shingles TWICE during adulthood (i'm only 36).....once at age 30 and again at age 35. Doctors told me it flared cuz of stress.

[kim]

Thanks for your responses everyone.

 

These are two articles that I think are important.

 

For those of us who have gotten our kids one dose (and choose not to do a 2nd and maybe 3rd 4th 5th etc)of this vax, there is the danger of a Dr. prescribing antibiotics at the onset of chickenpox because of the flu like symptoms and swollen lymph nodes. This exact thing happened to a friend of my oldest son, last summer. He had one vax. the Dr. assumed since he had had the vax, that it COULDN'T be chicken pox, and prescribed an antibiotic and a steroids. This is NOT what you want to happen.

 

 

CP, without going back through this, your son got the varicella vax, then you thought he looked yellow and sickly, right? Look at what the Mercola article says about the livers involment in chicken pox.

 

powerofprayer, have you ever used anything like olive leaf extract for a shingles flair up? I guess stress does lower our immunity,but, there may be more at play with hereditary glitchs in the immune system too. These are the patterns, that would be interesting to note.

 

The possibilty of the MMR given too close to a case of the chicken pox causing problems, (Carolyn, I wonder if you had the first MMR at the age of 1 yrs. old?) and the new combo shot of MMR/varicella, is quite scarey. I believe I have read where the amt of varicella virus in that combo shot, is 10 times what is used in the single vaccine.

 

Anyway, here are the articles

 

http://www.vaccinetruth.org/page_221.htm

 

http://www.mercola.com/2001/mar/17/chicken_pox.htm

[kim]

I thought the above article contained the information found here, opps!

 

http://www.upi.com/Special_Reports/The_Age...sm_pox__part_4/

 

 

The whole series of these articles can be found here (clickable left margin... lists others in the series)

 

http://www.upi.com/Special_Reports/The_Age_of_Autism/

[kim]

Article documenting movement disorder after varicella virus

 

http://www.ajnr.org/cgi/reprint/16/3/449.pdf

 

Postvaricella Basal Ganglia Infarction in Children

excerpt

 

Case 2

Right facial droop and slurred speech suddenly developed

in a 6-year-old child. Several days later, transient

right-sided weakness was noted, which resolved over 1 to

2 days. A prominent right-sided choreoathetosis then developed.

Chickenpox had occurred 2 to 3 months earlier.

Initial evaluation at another hospital included an MR scan

that revealed a nonenhancing focal region of increased

signal intensity on T2-weighted images involving the globus

pallidus adjacent to the anterior commissure and the

medial aspect of the putamen (Fig 2). The region of altered

signal intensity extended into the body of the caudate

and adjacent central white matter of the left frontal lobe

(Fig 2). Subsequent neurologic examination at our institution

was normal except for choreiform movement of the

right arm, face, and leg. Complete blood count, coagulation

studies, and vasculitis screen were normal. Analysis of

cerebrospinal fluid demonstrated 9 white blood cells per

cubic millimeter with normal levels of protein and glucose.

Cerebral angiography revealed mild narrowing and irregularity

of the intimal surface of the distal left internal carotid,

the A1 segment of the left anterior cerebral artery,

and the M1 segment of the left middle cerebral artery (Fig

2). No changes were seen further to the periphery, and

there were no angiographic abnormalities of the right carotid

system. Treatment with steroids was initiated. The

patient’s neurologic deficit improved remarkably, and 1

month after the onset of his movement disorder there was

only minimal residual evidence of hemichorea.

 

I wonder what follow up on this child reveals?

 

If our kids develope tics or a worsening of TS symptoms after natural chicken pox or the varicella vax, how will it ever be known? One way we can help, is by reporting to VAERS (vaccine adverse event reporting system) another is to educate Dr.s, by providing them with info. like above. No one is ever going to put these things together, if they're not looking.

 

Excellent paper regarding varicella vax

 

http://www.whale.to/m/butler11.htmlu

 

This paper mentions SV40. Is anyone aware of what SV40 is? I sure wasn't. I have never heard of someone with cancer being told that their tumor contained this DNA. I think it is highly unlikely we ever will. Will we be reading about other problems 20 years from now, from this vaccine which contains human DNA as technology advances? Of course, it will NOT be conclusive, as far as a connection because studies can be designed in ways (that most of us aren't smart enough to figure out, including me) that can make anything "inconclusive." It seems the more people possibly harmed, the harder these conclusions become.

 

From CDC website

http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vacsafe/concerns/cancer/default.htm#5

 

Simian Virus 40 (SV40), Polio Vaccine, and Cancer

 

I guess you all know now, why I'm so torn about the varicella vax

[michele]

Article documenting movement disorder after varicella virus

 

http://www.ajnr.org/cgi/reprint/16/3/449.pdf

 

Postvaricella Basal Ganglia Infarction in Children

excerpt

 

Case 2

Right facial droop and slurred speech suddenly developed

in a 6-year-old child. Several days later, transient

right-sided weakness was noted, which resolved over 1 to

2 days. A prominent right-sided choreoathetosis then developed.

Chickenpox had occurred 2 to 3 months earlier.

Initial evaluation at another hospital included an MR scan

that revealed a nonenhancing focal region of increased

signal intensity on T2-weighted images involving the globus

pallidus adjacent to the anterior commissure and the

medial aspect of the putamen (Fig 2). The region of altered

signal intensity extended into the body of the caudate

and adjacent central white matter of the left frontal lobe

(Fig 2). Subsequent neurologic examination at our institution

was normal except for choreiform movement of the

right arm, face, and leg. Complete blood count, coagulation

studies, and vasculitis screen were normal. Analysis of

cerebrospinal fluid demonstrated 9 white blood cells per

cubic millimeter with normal levels of protein and glucose.

Cerebral angiography revealed mild narrowing and irregularity

of the intimal surface of the distal left internal carotid,

the A1 segment of the left anterior cerebral artery,

and the M1 segment of the left middle cerebral artery (Fig

2). No changes were seen further to the periphery, and

there were no angiographic abnormalities of the right carotid

system. Treatment with steroids was initiated. The

patient’s neurologic deficit improved remarkably, and 1

month after the onset of his movement disorder there was

only minimal residual evidence of hemichorea.

 

I wonder what follow up on this child reveals?

 

If our kids develope tics or a worsening of TS symptoms after natural chicken pox or the varicella vax, how will it ever be known? One way we can help, is by reporting to VAERS (vaccine adverse event reporting system) another is to educate Dr.s, by providing them with info. like above. No one is ever going to put these things together, if they're not looking.

 

Excellent paper regarding varicella vax

 

http://www.whale.to/m/butler11.htmlu

 

This paper mentions SV40. Is anyone aware of what SV40 is? I sure wasn't. I have never heard of someone with cancer being told that their tumor contained this DNA. I think it is highly unlikely we ever will. Will we be reading about other problems 20 years from now, from this vaccine which contains human DNA as technology advances? Of course, it will NOT be conclusive, as far as a connection because studies can be designed in ways (that most of us aren't smart enough to figure out, including me) that can make anything "inconclusive." It seems the more people possibly harmed, the harder these conclusions become.

 

From CDC website

http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vacsafe/concerns/cancer/default.htm#5

 

Simian Virus 40 (SV40), Polio Vaccine, and Cancer

 

I guess you all know now, why I'm so torn about the varicella vax

 

 

 

Boy do I feel like an idiot. My son who has had PANDAS symptoms since he was thirteen months old and had strep is getting ready for kindergarten. So what did I do? I got him into the Dr. and gt all his immunizations up to date on 4-6-07. This is all so I can register him for school. What was I thinking? Now he is in an episode again. I couldn't figure out why when he hasn't been ill. Now I can guess it was the shots. Also he had a flu shot in the fall to keep him from getting sick over the long winter and getting a new baby sick and I remember him getting an episode the next month. Now I just had a newborn and questioned the Dr. about the shots at birth and held off two months but the Dr. response? There is more of a risk of death from not taking the shot then developing a problem from taking it. I am so confused as why we are pressured into these social "norms". I have a friend who refuses many vaccines for her kids and she is sometimes made fun of behind her back as being a weird one. She may be different but at least she is careful! She really researches things and follows her gut.

Michele

[kim]

Michele,

 

One of the best resources for researching the prevelence and risk of contracting a diseasee is the CDC pink book. I didn't look at this much, but my niece did, and she said that it was very helpful in making her decision regarding vaxes for her daughter.

 

Now I just had a newborn and questioned the Dr. about the shots at birth and held off two months but the Dr. response? There is more of a risk of death from not taking the shot then developing a problem from taking it.

This is such a common statement. I personally heard it from not one, but four pediatricians.

 

Part of the problem, I feel, is underreporting of adverese reactions (again, I have personal experience with this). Another thing is the amt. of time children are tracked for adverse reactions. It seems often times, even when children become very ill, we are told that they must have caught a bug, around the time they received their immunizations, or the symptoms are normal or nothing to be concerned about.

 

If these people are such experts on vaccines, why couldn't one Ped (the only one I asked), even tell me what adjuvants were contained in Pediarix?

 

She really researches things

 

 

I think this is the only way, to make a good decision for your particular child!