Yeast...go off abx to treat?

[frikfrak]

Hi all,

 

I thinking of taking my DS (23) off all abx to treat yeast...He's been laughing for years and i think its yeast.

 

I've tried periodically to treat with difflucan among other things and yet still laughing uncontrollably. Gave him a 30 day course but didn't seem to do much.

Of course while trying to treat yeast he's still been on abx so maybe you can't treat both at the same time.

 

I have him on Candicid Forte at the moment, anyone have any experience with this?

 

If I take him off abx will he regress so bad its not worth it? How long to treat?...could take months then of course back on abx.

 

I keep reading that you have to heal the gut to get better. I'm sure his gut is shot. He's been on abx for over 4 years.

 

any thoughts?

 

frakfrak

[mar]

First question why on antibiotics. Sorry don't know his background. After all those years the gut needs healing. Have you been treating with probiotics over the years.

[rowingmom]

DD had many silly and foolish age-regressive behaviours before her abx treatment began 3 years ago. She also was continuously itchy "down there" which our PCP diagnosed as normal for her age and which would resolve when she started monthly cycling.

 

He was also the one that stated lyme/bart was impossible - have I ever mentioned I will never return to that doctor again ?

 

When we began treatment we also began approx. 75 billion mixed probiotic cultures daily (a rotation of Align, Culturelle, ReNewLife UltimateFlora, PB8). The age regression quickly resolved, as did the itching. She never had any other indications of yeast throughout abx treatment, so I'm not sure if the silliness/itching was due to bacterial infection or to yeast which would have been addressed with the probiotics.

 

When we weaned abx 1 year ago and began Buhner's bartonella/babesia herbal protocols I mistakenly assumed that herbs would not disturb gut microbiota. I stopped dosing probiotic supplements, instead relying on fermented vegetables (mostly homemade sauerkraut) for healthy bacteria.

 

With higher doses of herbs however DD started experiencing yeast infection - red circles under her eyes, increased motor ticcing and some emotional lability. As soon as the itching started again I knew it was yeast and so reinitiated the probiotic supplements.

 

They helped a bit but after 4 days I gave up and gave her 1x 500 mg diflucan. The next day all yeast symptoms started resolving and within 3 days itching was better, ticcing had gone, under her eyes was clear and she was no longer emotional. I didn't discontinue antimicrobial herbs.

 

We now continue with daily probiotic supplementation as per abx treatment and fermented vegetable ingestion, along with the full antimicrobial herbal protocol and DD has had no relapse of her yeast symptoms.

 

DD is not carb restricted. We eat fermented oats a couple times a week, and 1 serving of either white rice or potatoes (cooked and cooled, then rewarmed) with dinner every day. She has 1 apple and 1 banana daily and we also eat plenty of carrots and beets. We do restrict sugar and processed foods. Resistant starches may be necessary for proper growth of healthy microflora:

 

http://drbganimalpharm.blogspot.ca/2013/12/how-to-cure-sibo-small-intestinal-bowel.html

 

This is the last post of a series of 7 on healing small intestinal bowel overgrowth, which can be bacterial or fungal in nature, and which should be helpful in addressing yeast overgrowth in the gut.

Edited May 8, 2014 by rowingmom

[sf_mom]

We have had a horrible yeast problems in our family. Yeast/fungus/mold are essentially classified together with yeast converting to fungus. They throw off horrible toxin's along with Lyme and those toxin's cause a diverse set of symptoms. For us, it took dealing with the "toxin's" to effectively deal with the yeast problem so it wasn't only just killing the yeast that helped. You might ask your LLMD for an extended trail of Chlorestyramine.

 

I am curious if you have lab results for glucose levels, hormones and cholesterol. If so, what was the result. To determine our issue we used Real Time Labs Mycotoxin Urine Test however I understand it is not available in NYC. Have you done Shoemaker panel or his visual test on-line?

 

I also think he might be helped by TMS therapy 'magnetic' therapy if its in his brain.

[frikfrak]

Hi,

 

Sorry, his story in a nutshell: diagnosed with lyme/rmsf in dec. 2009...also found babesia in 2012...been on many different abx and supplements since 2009 and did iv abx for approx. 1 year (not all at once). Been with our 3rd LLMD (very well known) for 1 1/2 years but son still no better.

 

he's been completely confused, forgetful since about 6 months out...can't be left alone, doesn't speak so can't ask how things make him feel, we just have to watch and observe and decide what to give that way.

 

he's pretty much been the same for about 2 years...no better, no worse. has good and bad days but no real improvement as far as on the upside.

 

one thing he's been doing for about 4 years is laughing...sometimes very bad, other times just a little. sometimes nothing for a few days but then right back to it. Psych doctor has given many different meds to try and connect but nothing works.

 

anyway, we have treated with difflucan at different times but no real change so i'm thinking maybe taking him off all abx for 1 to 3 months to treat for yeast but i don't want him to get worse.

 

we have taken him off abx in the past for certain test, once for 1 month and he did ok...kind of acted the same.

 

we have decided to take him to Dr. O in CT to see what they say, he's been very clingy lately...possibly PANDAS.

 

thanks for your thoughts

frikfrak

[rowingmom]

Did you find any improvement in cognitive/executive behaviour with babesia treatment? DD had some improvement with malarone, but had outstanding improvement with the herb cryptolepis.

 

For DD, bartonella seemed to be the cause of most of the PANS symptoms, but unknown Babesia sp. was the cause of executive/cognitive problems.

Edited May 8, 2014 by rowingmom

[frikfrak]

hi rowingmom:

 

was on mepron/zith for approx. 8 months then switched to malarone (still on) / art, now just malarone / CSA...but no, so far no improvement. Numbers were going down with the mepron/zith and malarone / art but since off those combos numbers back up but actually no change even when numbers where going down.

 

Did try cryptolepis but seemed to make him worse. going to try again once run out of CSA. Hoping since he's able to tolerate CSA that maybe he can now handle cryptolepis. Still have the bottle from when we tried.

 

in the last few months have added PS100 and Candicid Forte....still laughing but some of his mannerisms i feel are better.

 

also doing Flagyl pulse so hoping that helps with yeast.

[SSS]

Hi- Flagyl won't help with the yeast- it might make it worse-

 

You could do an OAT test (urine) to see where the gut yeast/ bacteria currently stand-

[frikfrak]

HI,

 

I thought Flagyl also treats yeast? Doing it as a cysts buster, is tindamax better then?

[SSS]

Hi-

No, neither Flagyl nor Tindamax will treat yeast/ fungi- they treat bacteria only, and also used as cyst busters in Lyme treatment.

GSE (grapefruit seed extract) is believed to have cyst busting properties, and also treat yeast-

But sometimes it's good to get an OAT test to actually see what the heck is going on.

Just some thoughts.

[SSS]

Also, Flagyl and Tindamax treat some parasites, too. But nothing fungal/ yeast.

[mama2alex]

Have you tried any sort of anti-yeast diet? It can be very hard to get rid of it if you are feeding it (with sugar and carbs) at the same time.

[rowingmom]

hi rowingmom:

 

was on mepron/zith for approx. 8 months then switched to malarone (still on) / art, now just malarone / CSA...but no, so far no improvement. Numbers were going down with the mepron/zith and malarone / art but since off those combos numbers back up but actually no change even when numbers where going down.

 

Did try cryptolepis but seemed to make him worse. going to try again once run out of CSA. Hoping since he's able to tolerate CSA that maybe he can now handle cryptolepis. Still have the bottle from when we tried.

 

in the last few months have added PS100 and Candicid Forte....still laughing but some of his mannerisms i feel are better.

 

also doing Flagyl pulse so hoping that helps with yeast.

 

How much CSA were you giving him?

 

We saw cognitive improvements with 15 drops BID (so if the tincture is equal parts that would be 5 drops cryptolepis BID). DD couldn't tolerate 15 drops CSA TID (or 5 drops cryptolepis TID) so we had to back off. The increase in CSA produced significant herxes for DD - babesia symptoms she had never experienced before, even with 6 months of malarone/tindamax/azith/plaquinel/mino (air hunger, chest pressure, sighing).

 

I would think that CSA would address more aspects of whatever infection you are dealing with, seeing as it has more constituents than just cryptolepis. Did you try slowly increasing doses of CSA?

 

Are you using Buhner's neuro anti-inflammatories (knotweed or kudzu) or immune supporting herbs (cordyceps, american ginseng, ginger, curcumin)? I think there is more to the healing of these infections than simply addressing infection using antimicrobials. We are still using these nutritional supplements suggested by our LLMD: liposomal glutathione, liposomal curcumin (meriva), vit c, vit d, methyl B's (every other day), transfer factor, phosphatidyl choline, at least 50 billion probiotic cultures. Gut function is important so we try to stay away from foods treated with glyphosate because the chemical kills beneficial gut bacteria.

 

Have you talked with Buhner's associate? Her consult fees are $150/hr phone call with e-mail privelages for two weeks. That is for the first consult, follow-ups are $75. There are several herbs she recommends for healing neurological symptoms.

 

I will be consulting with Julie later this month to inquire about adding artemesia to our protocol since we now know that we are dealing with protozoan infection. I guess Stephen's book on babesia won't be out until next spring.

 

Do you have Buhner's books?

 

Antibacterial herbs for resistant bacterial infections

Healing Lyme coinfections: mycoplasma and bartonella

 

An excellent resource on the herbs you are using.

Edited May 9, 2014 by rowingmom

[frikfrak]

hi,

 

yes, we are gluten free but not 100% and try to avoid sugars and do our best with carbs. We try to eat as best we can, organic, grass fed meat, no dairy for him.

 

He goes to a medical daycare during the day and unfortunately is given some foods he shouldn't have.

 

rowingmom: pm'd you

[Momwithacause]

Hi Frikfrak:

 

I just posted that we may be treating with ORAL IG instead of Abx because of a serious yeast battle that my son has had for 2 years. He is 3.5 years old & partially verbal but not converstaional with abx.

We can not keep him on abx because of this bad yeast problem so we are thinking that Oral IG or IVIG will end up being the treatment.

 

When my son was on abx he had to have diflucan.

 

Off antibiotics what works for us is Nystatin, Sacchamores Balardii (yeast that eats yeast but does not colonize& gets pooped out) & Fivelac have been our daily routine! works like a charm unless on abx