Amino acid question

[Chemar]

re the tryptophan

 

my son has been able to use 5HTP without any problems for some years now, but I decided (silly me) to see how he liked the tryptophan now that it is available again....bad move! He did not react well to the tryptophan at all...left him sleepless and he also had a small flareup of his crohn's symptoms.

[orthomolecular]

Faith, I think the simple answer is that the folinic acid makes sense along with the b-12 shots. Most times when supplementing b12 the doctor will also recommend folic acid. The folinic acid is just making sure that your son has enough folic acid.

 

This site does explain something about treating a b12 deficiency. It says that folinic acid should be introduced after the 5th week of trial.

 

12. Folinic acid should be added after the first 5-week clinical trial but not at the same time as methyl-B12. It should be added alone and its dose should start low and then be incrementally increased to see how it is tolerated. From my research, approximately 20% of children become hyper and/or cannot sleep when folinic acid is added.

 

http://www.tacanow.com/Methyl_B12_Treatments.htm

 

I would watch for these concerns, hyper or cannot sleep. If this is not what is happening than I think what you are doing should be fine. I think that advice is saying that with the b12 injections you have to make sure there is enough folic acid too.

 

In another post you asked about manganese. I have read that too much manganese is not good. I think that was my experience too. If I take 50 mg. of manganese it does not get absorbed I think because it seems to cause GI upset for me. But I would also have some problem with one part of my gum when I supplemented too much manganese. You indicate a dose that is 12 mg. which is what the RDI is. I don't think that dose should be a problem. But I do not recommend taking manganese in a dose that is higher than about 12 mg or 15 mg per day. If I take 12 mg. o fmanganese I don't have a problem with that dose. I think manganese is one mineral that has to be in the right dose.

 

I would guess that your son needs the b12 injections because he has a b12 defeciency and low histamine levels. I have low histamine levels and the nutrients that work for histapenia are folic acid, b12 and nicotinic acid. But that is just a guess about the low histamine. I think if your son had high histamine levels than the b12 injections might possibly make him worse.

 

I think if you watch him after the folinic acid - the first dose especially - then you should get a sense if he has a problem with folic acid or high histamine levels.

 

You said something seemed to make him worse. What else is he taking?

[faith]

Ortho,

we have been doing the methylb12/folinic acid for about three months now. The doc just said to give it together, (folinic is a pill). I don't think I noticed any extra hyper behavior or sleep problems. I just hope this regimen has some positive effect on the tics, i.e. perhaps getting the methylation working and thus the natural detoxification process. I think that could take some months, although not sure. (Carolyn?)

 

The manganese he just gets as part of the minerals he takes from the naturo, I guess that's preparing for possible chelation. I just give a few drops, don't know how many mg. it is, but probably minimal.

I havn't given any other vits for last three weeks, (stopped nu-thera) as naturo has him on this regimen right now. I do give probiotic too. Also, alkaline water, and supposed to be doing fish oil, but not giving right now just to see what's what with the B's.

 

Chemar,

interesting re the B vits--do you know for sure if your'e son is high or low histamine? If you do, I'd be interested to know if that rings true why he can't tolerate some b complex. Is the multi okay because it is minimal dose?

I'm having this feeling about it and am just going cut it out for a week and see. I never know what is enough time--I know its about four days to get something out of the system, but with vits, maybe longer is needed.

 

To all,

it does seem like this is all so complicated (and it is) but the longer you pay attention to all these things and start to become knowledgeable and familiar, it sort of becomes second nature. Like, I don't think I coud NOT pay attention to all these things if I tried---it becomes a way of life, and we become very serious about our research and begin to really find it all quite interesting, no? I've come to far to go back now.

 

Faith

[Guest]

Faith,

 

I think Dr. Neubrander says to give MB12 shots six months before determining if their right for your child or not. He also says to look for little steps, not big huge steps/progress. I think you would notice if the folinic acid caused hyperness or sleep problems. There was no way that I could miss the hyperness that folinic acid caused for me--didn't need any sleep at all during the night. However, stoping the folinic acid for one week and then taking just 1/4th of the capsule and increasing it each week until I was at a full capsule/day took care of that. I think this is the reason why Dr. Neubrander has his patients start folinic acid after 5 weeks. If you change more than one thing at a time it's hard to tell what's helping or what's causing problems.

 

 

Also while high/low histamine & the niacin test are being discussed. I tried taking 50 mg of Niacin quite a while ago before this simple test was mentioned. I had the flushing reaction with the 50 mg of Niacin. I have pyroluria and my understanding is that pyroluria overlaps both low and high histamine symptoms

 

Carolyn

[Irena]

I have another question. If I decide, as Ortho, suggests, to give Staś SamE (Doctor's Data test results show he needs to take methionine - 1060mg), how much should it be? I can see it comes in 100, 200 or 400 mg. The recommended amount of methionine is pretty high but I decided to be carefull and give him rather less than the recommended amount. Especially that he is also getting less of other recommended amino acids. This is also because I don't have chance to have it custom made here and I can't afford to order it abroad. Especially that I'm not sure how he will react to it. So I'm starting with lower amounts basing on seperate OTC amino acids that I can buy here (I am so glad NOW and Solgar are available here but, unfortunately, in very limited choice).

 

Anyway, if I decided to give him L-methionine (which maybe, acording to Ortho's suggetsions I will switch to later on, as it is much cheaper) it would be rather 1 capsule of 500 mg than this recommended 1060mg. What is the corresponding amont of SamE?

 

And another question. Maybe it is again out of blue, like my previous question about grapefruit seed extract inhibiting nutrient uptake, but again it is something that my doctor said and I keep thinking about it although I can't find any info that it may be true. It is about calcium. She says calcium inhibits absorption of other nutrient and should be taken separately (in fact she does not care much about calcium at all; she suggested I don't givi it to Staś, but he does not have any diary, tested low in calcium and calcium is vital for brain - so I am not going to stop it). Well, to have peace of mind I could give it separately but now, with the anti-candida treatment and so much stuff I have to give Staś between meals (probiotics +biotin, aloe vera juice, amino acids preferably on an empty stomach) I have no room for calcium left. So I give it at night together with Mg and Zn. Please, tell me it is all right

[orthomolecular]

I find I will use tryptophan instead of 5-htp simply because of the dose that they each come in. 5-htp comes in 60 mg. where as tryptophan comes in 500 mg. Most amino acids come in 500 mg. doses. So I have no idea what 60 mg. of 5-htp would be equal to in tryptophan. It is just a logistic issue for me to take one supplement in the dose that works best for my needs

 

Irena, you seem to have a similar problem with SAMe vs. methionine. I think you should try maybe the 200 mg. dose which you could easily increase to 400 mg. if you need to. The 100 mg. dose might be too many capsules if you had to increase the dose. I have no idea how SAMe dose relates to methionine dose. But I know that in the beginning SAMe can be more effective.

 

Just try to recognize if the dose is enough or too much. Usually if it is not enough it may wear off sooner than other supplements will. I might not think that in the beginning too much may be the problem, but that is always possible.

Start with 200 mg. dose and gradually work that up to the 400 mg. Always wait a week at one dose before increasing to the next level.

 

Some amino acids I take I take in a dose of several grams, but most amino acids I take I take in 1 gram dose (several times a day). If you keep the bulk of the amino acids in the same dosage you should be OK I think. That means one amino acid is not getting too high vs. the others. But some aminios will need to be given special consideration. Those amino acids you will have to use a different dose. Methionine for a histadelic is probably an amino that needs to be in a different dose than the others. And the dose of methionine may have to be adjusted from time to time. And tryptophan because it needs to be taken separate from the others, especially DLPA or tyrosine might be looked at as a special case too.

 

Wikipedia says that grapefruit seed extract interferes with some enzyme in the GI tract or something. "Grapefruit can have a number of interactions with certain drugs, increasing the potency of many compounds. Grapefruit has components that inhibit the production of a particular enzyme in the intestine.[34] Thus, it is this effect that increases the rate of absorption of several drugs.[35]" I think you might be cautious to use that stuff away from most of the other supplements, if that is possible.

 

Taking the magnesium with calcium and zinc at night is fine. Those minerals will be fine taken together.

 

I personally don't take much calcium. If the body is not able to process the calcium properly I think you can get calcifications, which in some parts of the body can cause problems like cancer. I also think that too much calcium has been reported to contribute to depression. Too much calcium can cause some problems.

 

BUT, histadelics need calcium. So I think in this case calcium is needed.

 

If you give him the aminos on an empty stomach that should work, and I think they should work if you give them with food. But if the amino acid doses are too low than you may not get the same bang for your buck if you give them with food. You do have to figure out logistics of how to take all those supplements in the best possible way. So sometimes you may have to break a rule or make an exception. Don't sweat so much about breaking the rules when it comes to getting all the supplements in the best possible method. Just juggle the supplements the best you can to make them work. And sometimes you find out that you don't have to adhere to every single rule you may learn about when it comes to supplements.

[Irena]

Thank you, Ortho!