Peter Gillham's Liquid Vitamins

[Cum Passus]

Hi all,

 

I got the Peter Gillham's Liquid Vitamins today, and I have questions about the amino acid complex. It list a host of them and I wanted you all to let me know if you saw any red flags regarding the effect on tics. I remember reading , and have in my notes glutamine not good for tics. Is that the same thing as

L- Glutamine? And Aspartic as a big no, no, Is that the same as L-Aspartic Acid?

 

The complex is:

L-Alanine

L-Arginine

L-Aspartic Acid

L-Cysteine HCI

L-Cystine

L-Glutamic

L-glutamine

Glycine

L-Histidine

L-Isoleucine

L-Leucine

L-Lysine HCI

L-Methionine

L-Phenylalanine

L-Proline

L-serine

taurine

L-threonine

L-Tyrosine

L-Valine

 

The total amino acid complex is 50mg.

 

Thank you for helping me understand this.

C.P.

[Chemar]

CP

it is NOT a good idea to give a comprehensive amino acid supplement to anyone with Tourette Syndrome

 

some amino acids stimulate dopamine and hence increase tics

 

alanine, arginine and tyrosine are amongst those and I know Bonnie Grimaldi has stuff on her site about this http://www.bonniegr.com

 

I never give an amino acid complex to my son, but only give the specific ones that he needs

[Guest]

Chemar-is whey protein powder considered a comprehensive amino acid supplement? I would guess so, but wanted to check. Also why would one be deficient in amino acids if they eat a lot of meats? Would it have to do with the absorption--where taking Betaine HCL would come into place? I don't tolerate the amino acids that I'm low in, but yet I always eat lots of meat.

 

My doctor sent me a test kit to recheck amino acids which I'm not doing currently because nothing's changed. I haven't successfully added any amino acids in nor have I got brave and tried the Betaine HCL. I will be explaining that to him at my next appt. in March.

 

Carolyn

[Cum Passus]

Thanks Chemar,

 

Could you tell me what comprehensive means? The bottle says its food based. How would I know if the amino acids came from the aloe juice added? I guess mean kind of like Royal Jelly, it has amino acids in it, would those kind of amino acids be OK?

 

Thank you so much, it is such a comfort to have you help me understand.

 

C.P.

[Chemar]

Hi Carolyn

yes, whey protein has high levels of amino acids and so could increase tics .....if you need to use it maybe start at very low amounts and see how you react

 

I can only think that it must be some form of absorption issue if you remain low in your aminos even tho you are eating the natural sources of them

[Irena]

My son's amino acids test results showed a lot of abnormalities. Many amino acids below the normal range and three high up: creatinine (they suggest poor hydration), taurine (well, that is quite obvious - 400 mg of magnesium taurate he was taking daily was derived from 5000mg of taurine, so I suppose the excess was in his urine). But they also say that elevated urinary taurine is usually associated with impaired renal conservation (wasting) due to competion by elevated levels of beta-alanine, which in turn is commonly associated with dysbiosis (yeast/fugus). But first they said oral taurine needs to be ruled out. I didn't give up taurine, as i belive it is vital, but switched to other forms of chelated magnesium plus one 500mg of taurine.

 

But the fact is that the third high amino acid is beta-alanine. So I stronly belive that yaest is still our major issue and this is something we have to address strongly. I need your advice on that but I will post it in a separate thread.

 

Now I would like to consult the suggested amino acid supplementation. I was happy to see that they do not include tyrosine in it, but I didn't know that arginine is also the "bad" one. What's more I was thinking about following dr Leon Chaitow's ("Can Yeast be Your Problem") suggestion of taking high doses (up to 3g daily for adults) of arginine for the first three, four weeks of anti-candida treatment in order to boost the thymus activity at the outset of the programme when it is most needed. It is meant to enhance thymus gland's production of T-cells. he also recommends high doses of vitamine C (up to the individually tolerated level). The only warnong he gives about arginine is for those with history of herpes because it can enhance herpes activity (although it can be countered by lysine). Well, I would be happy to know your opinion, although I would probably stay on the safe side and will not do thses hight doses.

 

Anyway, l-arginine is still on the list of recommended amino acid supplementation (by Doctor's Data)> it is as follows: (all L-forms)

tryptophan - 230mg

arginine-720mg (dr Chaitow does not recommend long use of arginine as the thymus may come to depend upon it, whereas it should be encouraged to normal activity by the total programme of Candida suppresion)

histidine 565mg

izoleucitine 1190mg

leucine 1615mg

lysine 720mg (the same amount as arginine - maybe because of what dr Chaitow says about the relation of both)

methionine 1060mg

phenyalanine 1185 mg

threonine 620mg

valine 1420 mg

P-5-P 30mg (Staś takes 50mg daily)

alphaketoglutarate - 650mg

and taurine - 0 mg (I belive it is to stres not to take any)

 

My doctor is away for a few days so I would be happy to know your opinion before I see her and before we order the amino acid formula (it needs to be done in London - I'm scared to think how much it is going to be)

 

For the time being I found Solgar's Amino 75 (L-Histidine 75 mg L-Isoleucine 75 mg L-Leucine 75 mg L-Lysine (as L-Lysine HCI) 75 mg L-Methionine 75 mg Phenylalanine 75 mg L-Threonine 75 mg L-Valine 75 mg) which seems to have everything he's short of but in less than ten times less amount (nor arginine, though). I give him 2-4 capsules a day (I can't afford more as I would have to have one bottle for three days).

 

Please, let me know what you think: mostly on taurine and arginine, but also is the rest OK, especially in such a big amount?

[orthomolecular]

I have read that taurine excretion can indicate a zinc deficiency or a zinc and vitamin A deficiency. I honestly don't beleive that a magnesium taurate supplement provides that much taurine.

 

Your son results are urine or blood. It does make a difference. It sounds like urine to me.

 

This article explains things that you want to factor in to reading those results. This article is for reading a urine sample.

 

http://www.iwdl.net/Practitioners/Amino%20...20Interpret.pdf

[Irena]

Thank you, Orthomolecular.

 

Douglas labs' Magnesium Taurate content is: Magnesium (from 5,000 mg. of Magnesium Taurate Complex, fully reacted) 400 mg. I'm not sure how to undestand this. If 5000mg of magnesium taurate gives you 400mg of magnesium, doesn't the rest acount for taurine?

 

Yes, it was a urine sample. There is a quite comprehensive explanations to the test results I received but, of course, they don't know what the main health issue is. I will read carefully all the informations in the link.

 

Irena

[Cum Passus]

Hi all,

 

If anyone could let me know about the amino acid question I had I would be most grateful. I was wondering about the amino acids coming from a natural source like Royal Jelly or aloe vera. I understand Chemar said not to give a comprehensive amino acid to someone with TS. I just do not know what comprehensive means. Is it all amino acids in all forms or is it a form of compound amino acids in a supplement that is not good for TS.

 

Thank you,

C.P.

[Chemar]

sorry CP...I thought I had explained

 

amino acids that occur naturally or in things like Royal Jelly etc are ok UNLESS one has a very specific sensitivity to any of those amino acids

 

when supplementing witha comprehensive concentrated amino acid supplement, many people with TS find it makes them tic more, because of the specific amino acids in the complex that stimulate dopaminergic systems and hence increase tics

 

it is therefore better to give things like taurine, methionine etc separately if needed than to give an all purpose amino acid

 

HTH

[Cum Passus]

Thanks Chemar,

 

C.P.

[Irena]

Ok, so I understand that I should get all the amino acids separately. What about L-tryptophan? Do you have any experience with taking this, or just 5-HTP. Is is safe?

I read that tryptophan will not work unless taken on an empty stomach (no other proteins in a digestive system). The only time the stomach is empty, that I can think of, is early morning. Any other time I can't be sure the stomach is empty and probably it is not (it takes up to 8 hours to digest a meal consisting of carbohydrates together with proteins). What is your experience?

[Chemar]

Irena

 

tryptophan is not available in the USA...only 5HTP

 

some people benefit from the serotonin increasing effect of 5HTP .....BUT for others it makes them very jittery and has other side effects....similarly with tryptophan

 

My son reacts well to 5HTP (no more than 50mg each evening)....my husband cannot go near it!

 

It MUST always be taken with VitaminB6 and should NEVER be used in conjunction with any medication or supp that also boosts serotonin( eg SSRI antidepressant medications) as a dangerous effect known as serotonin spiking can occur

 

Boosting serotonin is not done to reduce tics, but rather to help with the co-morbid issues that can accompany TS eg OCD, depression, anxiety, insomnia etc....some people do find that the overall relaxation effect in turn reduces the tics

 

IMHO, and especially for a child, it is better to start with INOSITOL and if an amino acid is needed, try methionine or it's optimum version, samE

Again, vitB6 is needed with these for optimal effect

[Irena]

I thought the ban has been lifted. I am afraid my doctor (I'm seeing her tomorrow) will simply prescribe all the amino acids listed in the test results supplementation schedule.

I don't really know what I should do. Try L-tryptophan, stick with 5-HTP (available in Poland) or try inosiltol. It is interesting to know that increased serotonin does not have an immediate impact on tics.

 

Today, I read a short report of neurotransmitter testing being run on Polish patients with tics. It wasn't a broad survey. Simply there were some money available for this project and the tests were offered to members of TS Association. Results vary, but in each case there was decreased level of GABA. They said they would need more patients, both with TS and without, to tell whether it is something attributed particularly to TS. All this brain chemistry is something still very difficult for me comprehend. Is GABA vital? Is it worth trying without testing? Would it be safe?

[Cum Passus]

Chemar,

 

My son takes zinc (as monomethionine) would this be a good zinc?

I also have zinc (as citrate) Which one would be best?

 

thank you C.P.