Can a fearful event open the BBB?

[philamom]

My dd has been showing signs of a strep infection since Sept 1st. She now has either a staph infection (cellulitis) or strep infection (erythema nodosum) on her leg, possibly both legs. When tested at the end of Sept, her DNASE and LFT's were significantly increased. Her ASO is normal but increasing to higher end of normal. Last week she missed entire week of school due to her leg. On Monday, she went for a full day - I was there in the afternoon for a parade/party.

 

On the night of Halloween, my stepdaughter & boyfriend (20's) took her out trick or treating. The plan was for them to go as far as her leg could handle, and I would then drive and pick them up. They were at the end of their route, when they went to a house where some adults in costume and chainsaws jumped out from behind a tree and tombstone decoration and chased her. She dropped her candy and ran away screaming. The adults never broke performance, or offered any compassion . She came home pale as ghost - and she was oscar! Tuesday, I received a call from the school nurse at 10:30 to pick her up. Since then she hasn't been able to attend school, has severe separation anxiety, and a return fear of vomiting in school. It's hard to distinguish between physical pain (her leg - she may be fighting a cold as well) and fear.

 

Anyway, my question, is it possible for a really scary event (for her) to open the blood brain barrier, allowing the bad antibodies to circulate? thx

[MomWithOCDSon]

Your poor DD! As if she wasn't already dealing with enough!

 

In answer to your question, I don't know definitively, but I would think, yes. There's been lots of discussion here previously about stress and the BBB, and I would think that "fright" is basically "sudden stress on crack," if you know what I mean. Found these links:

 

Franklin Institute - Stress and the BBB

 

Pubmed - Stress-Induced BBB Permeability

[PhillyPA]

Absolutely, 100% yes. I have seen it with my own son.

[philamom]

Thank you. I may have to toilet-paper the house! thanks for the links Nancy -plan to print & bring to doctors.

[JAG10]

I'm sorry....that's just obnoxious if you are not going to be responsible enough to feel-out young kids first.

It's not like you took her to that Eastern State Penitentiary!!!!!

 

:angry:

 

So sorry Melinda, I hope she feels better soon!

[philamom]

Crazy...huh! I wanted to go have a chat with the family but my husband talked me out of it - plus I don't know if they have children who attend my dd's school, which could make it worse for her.

Many of my daughter's fears popped right back to the surface (vomiting,sneezing in tv shows,separation). Fortunately, I'm a little better equipped on dealing with them...singing songs & rhymes about barfing, and she's a little better at discussing them. But still - the hardest is the school...because the fear fo it actually makes her feel like she's going to get sick. I got her in today for an hour 1/2 - so I'm really proud of her.

 

If I continue to fume, I might rent a costume and hide behind their tree and give them a fright one morning . Oh, that is when I can separate from dd.

 

-thx

[norcalmom]

Yes - Adreneline, or epinepherine can increase permeability of the BBB. Many pandas kids had their initial episode at the time of a stressful event.

 

here is one article that says they use it with mice to get the BBB open in order to deliver another drug, that normally could not pass through the BBB.

 

"Here, we tested pharmacological manipulation with epinephrine to restore functional transport of P-GUS across the adult BBB. Epinephrine (40 nmol) coinjected i.v. with (131)I-P-GUS induced the transport across the BBB in 8-week-old mice."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17646643

 

You can google more on it...it seems like it is a given.

 

Most work in the area is on opening (not closing) the BBB safely to deliver drugs for brain disorders.

[PhillyPA]

I think what those adults did was really really cruel on so many levels. Your story really bothers me. Just goes to show that kids with pandas are not the only ones with mental issues in the community. If it were me, I would write them an annoymous (no idea how to spell that word) letter.I would not sign my name for the reasons that you state. You don't want to make enemies and have more problems. It will probably do no good because people who do that s**t have no boundries or empathy for others. Their idea of funny is sick. I am so annoyed by your neighbors. If that happened to me, a healthy adult, it would take me days to recover from that trauma. I despise the feeling of being scared. I never watch scary movies. I hate that feeling.

 

I wish your daughter a speedy recovery.

[saidie10]

Mean people!!! Hope she improves soon. This has all made me realize and remember that my sons EXPLOSIVE OCD began the night he badly injured his front toot. It was traumatizing for him! Wow interesting...

[philamom]

Good idea Philly - might do that.

[beeskneesmommy]

I am so sorry! "Jason" freaked my son out when he was trick or treating with my husband. My son just turned 5! This was an adult child of a neighbor, around age 20. Later, "Jason"s father had the good grace at least to come out and apologize...You question is very interesting - it's also plausible that in addition the BBB changes, the hard core stress would cause increased anxiety, causing increased symptomology...Poor kiddo!

[eljomom]

I asked Dr. Cunningham this during a phone conversation last year, as I was wondering the same thing after she mentioned that stress can open the BBB due to epinephrine, etc. But she said it doesn't "stay open"---if that makes sense. So my translation of that is that it is a temporary opening the BBB. But in any case, the anxiety from it increases fear, which then increases symptoms, which increases anxiety. A vicious circle in some ways.

 

In the state I'm in, I shudder to think what I would have said/done had I witnessed that with my own, or anyone else's child for that matter.....

[MIAS_MOM]

absulutley true for my dd. One fearful event was so bad we ended up in a psychiatric hospital 3 days after bc she was so traumatized by it. We are very cautious with "fears." We have had too many episodes to mention.

[butterflymom]

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Edited October 7, 2015 by tampicc

[oivay]

The psychiatrist we originally saw said that my daughter's condition was probably Pandas (she agreed with the other doctor's diagnosis), and said that it probably was a result of a compromised immune system which resulted from the stress of our divorce. I tend to agree with this as it was extremely stressful on all of us at that time and there had been one incident of particularly bad behavior by her father that we all witnessed about a week before her first episode.