Conundrum - Autoimmune Disorder & Immunodeficient

[lmi1973]

Okay, so I am really trying to wrap my head around this. Based on my son's bloodwork, Dr. T noted that he is immunodeficient in his IgG3 subclass. He also let me know that this as well as IgG4 subclasses are commonly deficient in pandas/pitand patients.

 

My son has a myco p infection as well. In addition, his white blood cell count is low, which from what I've read indicates a chronic myco p infection. To clear out the infection, it is suggested by everything I've read to use multiple antibiotics over several months & to boost depleted immune systems.

 

But, with this awful auto-immune disorder, won't taking supplements to boost his immune system cause flares in symptoms? I was just researching an immune boosting herb called Echenacea, and it sounded great in terms of boosting immune system; however, there was a warning that people with auto-immune disorders should not take this for obvious reasons...

 

Am I not thinking right on this? Am I overanalyzing this too much? It just seems like a catch 22. How can I boost his immune system without triggering this awful auto-immune disorder?

[Guest pandas16]

I'm not immunodeficient but my iGg 4 were on the lower side- 29 and I had a really bad reaction to ANYTHING that stimulated by immune system. What are your son's numbers if you don't mind me asking?

[LNN]

From my very limited understanding of this, IgG3 is involved in activating the compliment system (the stuff that binds to an antigen and helps mark it for destruction). So being IgG3 deficient would mean your son wouldn't have high immune complexes. But if other IgG sub-classes are ok, then your son's system is still able to fight infection. Just with one less tool. How critical compliment is, I don't know.

 

I don't have an answer to whether boosting the immune system is a good thing. That's certainly a question for your doctor. But I'll toss out a theory just to think about. Some schools of thought say you can think of the body as a bucket. If the bucket is half-full with infection, mold, metals, etc, the body handles them in an way that allows you to manage. But if the bucket overflows, the immune system becomes dysfunctional. Like a juggler able to handle 3-4 balls in the air, but add 6-7 and they all come crashing down. If you can remove enough of the toxic load (e.g. get rid of the chronic myco), then the immune system can return to normal functioning and start successfully juggling just 3-4 balls again. This theory is different than the mindset you get when you think of autoimmune diseases and that they make the body permanently unable to handle certain infections. I don't think anyone knows which - if either - is closer to the truth. Or maybe it depends on what the antigen or particulars are for an individual.

 

I just toss this out to suggest that if you can focus on the myco and successfully eradicate it, you may find your son's IG sub-classes and other measurements change and reflect a healthier system once the myco is gone.

[Malke]

I don't have an answer to whether boosting the immune system is a good thing. That's certainly a question for your doctor. But I'll toss out a theory just to think about. Some schools of thought say you can think of the body as a bucket. If the bucket is half-full with infection, mold, metals, etc, the body handles them in an way that allows you to manage. But if the bucket overflows, the immune system becomes dysfunctional. Like a juggler able to handle 3-4 balls in the air, but add 6-7 and they all come crashing down. If you can remove enough of the toxic load (e.g. get rid of the chronic myco), then the immune system can return to normal functioning and start successfully juggling just 3-4 balls again. This theory is different than the mindset you get when you think of autoimmune diseases and that they make the body permanently unable to handle certain infections. I don't think anyone knows which - if either - is closer to the truth. Or maybe it depends on what the antigen or particulars are for an individual.

 

Our new integrative D.O. speaks to non-typical allergies (which can cause an autoimmune reaction in the body in various organs, depending on genetics) in this way (different analogy, but essentially the same thing). For us allergies are presenting neurologically, very similar to PANDAS, and not like the typical sneezy/wheezy/life threatening ones. As I work to remove and/or rotate allergy foods (identified from a combined IgE/IgG4 food panel) and take into account 'total allergen load' (chemical, pollen, viral, food, life stress, etc.) I have to make sure the 'bucket' doesn't overflow because of any one thing. I don't know how long it'll take before we have to stop managing this condition, but in the last month of without eggs or mustard in dd's diet (both aparently life-long allergens for her based on test results) things have really improved. I will continue to rotate other foods, then perhaps her body can start to heal. Our D.O. says that if we focus on the food issues for 3 months we'll see about as much improvement with this approach as we will ever see. I'm also starting Lysine and a couple more anti-virals now as well, to try and take a little more stress out of the body. That's my 2 cents

[Malke]

Oh, one more thing. I, too, had the question about boosting an already overactive immune system and our integrative doc says you have to be very careful about supplements like echinacea, that the body can come to rely on them. He says that it's possible to use them periodically, but not on a regular basis.

[lmi1973]

Thanks for the responses. I'm going to keep my fingers crossed that once the myco p is cleared out that his immune system will bounce back. The bucket example really helped for some reason! Good to know about the supplements as well. Maybe I'll hold off until I see if his bounces back after treating infection. Pretty calm here tonight, almost scary... Going to enjoy it and TRY to not think about it too much, lol

[Stephanie2]

Yes, Echinacea is one of those that will "overstimulate" the immune system. Some other immune-boosting supplements: methyl B12, Vit D (should get checked and get levels above 50 even if doc is happy with 30), very high doses of vitamin c (this should be buffered vitamin c - I use kirkman brand about 4000mg per day, there are some on here that go up to 10,000mg per day), Vit A (good for viruses), Zinc (should have this tested).

 

When I started my oldest on his Methyl B12 shots he no longer got ear infections (and he had been getting them even with tubes in his ears), they stopped immediately.