OLE still working for strep, but still have yeast/clostridia

[Stephanie2]

I've been posting our weekly progress on the forum. OLE is still working wonders here for strep/pandas. So much so that DH and I are scared to reduce his dose, but I'm afraid I may have to do just that. Are there any others here who are doing this naturally and have some input? There are many on the autism boards, but there are SO MANY members there who are discussing so many issues, that it is hard to get a good pandas discussion going, it just gets lost in the mix many times. If some of us could identify ourselves here it would be so great to share ideas and experiences...

 

Anyway, the problem is that we are still really battling yeast. And when I treat the yeast, it makes room for clostridia to move in and clostridia makes my boys aggressive (almost worse than pandas) and psychotic-like! Then when I treat clostridia, yeast moves in. It's like I can't win!

 

In the not so distant past I was managing these things with diflucan and vancomycin, but just like I have sworn off the high dose abx for strep, I am now swearing off all the rest b/c it is just a vicious cycle with no end! So I am successfully treating clostridia with Advanced Biocidin, Sac. Boulardii (like Florastor) and Culturelle. However, like I said then we get yeast.

 

So DH and I decided last night that we are going to cut out one of his OLE doses, keep him on biocidin for an undetermined amount of time, and also use other herbs for yeast. I'm not quite sure why biocidin is not keeping the yeast at bay. The only thing i can come up with is that it is killing so much clostridia that yeast has more room to thrive.

 

So here is what we plan to do, any input?

 

Probiotics (400 billion) when he wakes up

OLE/Biocidin 1.5 hours later

 

OLE/Biocidin after school

 

Biocidin at dinner

Probiotics (400 bill) before bed

 

Not quite sure yet what I am going to add for yeast, probably one of the following: Grapefruit seed extract, oil of oregano, ???

 

Just seems like a lot, part of me wants to drop OLE all together b/c biocidin "should" cover him for strep AND clostridia, and then I could rotate OLE, GSE and Oil of Oregano for yeast. When I brought that up to DH he was too scared to drop the OLE...can't blame him.

[lynn2]

Did you try Candida Clear? It is a NOW vitamin that has oil of oregano, capryllic acid, and a few other herbs. Although it is supposed to be for yeast, I find that it doesn't completely fix the set of symptoms that I describe as "yeast" (brain fog, spacy, silly, stomach sticks out like Biafra baby, OCD is to be annoying) but if I leave it out I get an increase in the "bacteria" set of symptoms (ragey, OCD is to hurt, arguing about anything.) For yeast, the only thing that works for me is grapefruit seed extract, combined with Candidase enzymes (by Enzymedica.) My routine for "yeast" goes like this: on an empty stomach (2 hours after eating, already a problem because I have an adolescent)take Candidase. 1/2 hour later take grapefruit seed extract, candida clear and olive leaf extract. Do that twice a day for 3 days (if I give other supplements or more olive leaf extract, I keep those on my usual supplement scedule which may or may not conincide with the 2 yeast treatments.) I add in charcoal 2 hours later if the yeast was really bad. I try to cycle back off the grapefruit seed extract for several days a week, but it is hard right now because the olive leaf extract keeps generating more yeast. I keep the candida clear pretty constant right now. For bacteria, the candida clear plus olive leaf extract seem to work OK.

 

I tried biocidin a few years back, but it didn't seem to work well for DS. I know it helps a lot of people tthough.

 

I put yeast and bacteria in quotes because I've never had them tested so I'm not sure exactly what I am treating. I feel like one of the pioneer midwives, if the herb works (and doesn't cause other problems) then it must be the cure for the problem!

Edited October 14, 2010 by lynn2

[Stephanie2]

Thank you so much! I have not tried Candida Clear. Although I use NOW brand, it seems to be so "generic and cheap" looking so I didn't think much of it. I will have to rethink that if you say it works. I suspect your son swallows the pill, do you have any suggestions on how to get this dowm my 2 and 5 year olds? I usually have no problem "bullying" them (j/k) into taking their supps, but with caprylic acid it is all out WAR!! I have completely given up on it. Not to mention I tasted it and it is intolerable.

 

Also, the candidase enzyme, is that similar to No Phenol? I already give that 3 times a day along with the OLE.

 

I also get great success with GSE for yeast but like you I try to back off so that the yeast doesn't start resisting it...

 

How long has your child been on OLE? Is it doing it's job in terms of pandas?

Edited October 14, 2010 by Stephanie2

[formedbrds]

I

Edited October 30, 2010 by formedbrds

[lynn2]

Hi Stephanie

 

I haven't tried Candida Clear out of the capsule. It smells like oregano (don't know if that is helpful!) My understanding is that Candidase is similar to No Phenol in that they are both Enzymes. I have heard, but not confirmed, that if you take No Phenol on an empty stomach, it works on yeast. I can't use it becausse it makes DS hyper and angry, and we already have enough of that around here! Also, (for any who have not used them before)with any of the enzyme products, it is important to start really low (I started with 1/4 cap) and increase slowly.

 

Previously, OLE had done pretty well for DS(14) in clearing up and keeping him free of infection. He went downhill last spring and I put him on a series of different abx, followed by IVIG. Haven't had any major improvements from abx or IVIG yet (week 7 today) and DS just had some sort of exacerbation while on Omnicef full dose. I got rid of Omnicef and started OLE 1000 mg 3x day and the yeast protocal below. He had some intense die-off the last few days but seems to be coming off that (likely yeast since it was really intense yeasty behavior). The sore throat is gone. I'll let you know!

[mom love]

I need help with something and I don't even know what. It could be yeast? die off? not really sure what any of it looks like. dd is on zithromax and improved dramatically but still has the tic. I decided to try OLE Seagate brand because of amount of research done on it and has many good parts of the olive leaf, not just olepurin sp? Anyway, only gave her one capsule a day started last Sunday and initially I thought her tic was much better, even the next day. Then it started to get worse and her emotions started ramping up and angry outbursts, crying etc. She was also acting a little silly and goofy, nothing dramatic, joyful actually, just different than the normal level of silly and happy.

 

So after 4 days of it I stopped it. Do you think it was helping or hurting? Now we are left with the tic much worse today. I thought from Stephanie's post that OLE causes yeast to ramp up but everything I read about OLE says it fights yeast. Could it have been things get worse before they get better? Or could it have compromised the antibiotic? (gave it of course many hours apart). Logically I didn't think it would counteract the abx because it is supposed to help shed tenacious viruses and bacteria and that should help the abx do their job.

[matis_mom]

I know you guys are already GFCF, but have you ever tried going completely grain and starch free? It's supposed to starve out the "bad guys". Look up Specific Carbohydrate Diet. It's tough, but may be worth a try until you get the yeast under control.

[Stephanie2]

I need help with something and I don't even know what. It could be yeast? die off? not really sure what any of it looks like. dd is on zithromax and improved dramatically but still has the tic. I decided to try OLE Seagate brand because of amount of research done on it and has many good parts of the olive leaf, not just olepurin sp? Anyway, only gave her one capsule a day started last Sunday and initially I thought her tic was much better, even the next day. Then it started to get worse and her emotions started ramping up and angry outbursts, crying etc. She was also acting a little silly and goofy, nothing dramatic, joyful actually, just different than the normal level of silly and happy.

 

So after 4 days of it I stopped it. Do you think it was helping or hurting? Now we are left with the tic much worse today. I thought from Stephanie's post that OLE causes yeast to ramp up but everything I read about OLE says it fights yeast. Could it have been things get worse before they get better? Or could it have compromised the antibiotic? (gave it of course many hours apart). Logically I didn't think it would counteract the abx because it is supposed to help shed tenacious viruses and bacteria and that should help the abx do their job.

 

So many things could have been happening. My first thought was die-off, but usually that happens the first day! Then I was thinking that it created yeast pretty quickly. Another thing is maybe it was FIGHTING yeast and making room for bacteria which cropped up within the next couple days? Also, many ppl use it as an antiviral to reduce the level of latent viruses that are lying dormant in the body but are wreaking havoc on the child. I hear that the viral die-off symptoms last about a month. A lot of thoughts...hope something helps!

 

Oh, yes OLE does fight yeast but I hear from so many ppl that it actually creates yeast when used long term b/c as the viruses are shedding, yeast is being released (or something like that, I don't quite understand it actually ). Also, I have to wonder if it is killing so much bacteria that it is making room for yeast to grow. Our DAN doc described the gut like a hotel. When you clear the hotel rooms of one thing (whether it be good bacteria, bad bacteria or yeast) then you make room for other things to move into the rooms. Does that make sense? So, ideally you want to fill as many "rooms" with good bacteria so the other stuff can hit the road! Or like Mati's mom said you can put the kid on the SCD diet and "starve" the little creeps so that they leave the hotel and go down the street to Denny's (the little creeps being the microbes, not the kids LOL...or MAYBE I DID mean the kids!)

 

 

I know you guys are already GFCF, but have you ever tried going completely grain and starch free? It's supposed to starve out the "bad guys". Look up Specific Carbohydrate Diet. It's tough, but may be worth a try until you get the yeast under control.

 

Oh, mati's mom, you are like my conscience, always making me face that which I am avoiding Lyme, SCD, what else do you have for me!!? LOL! J/K...I have so many people pushing me to the darn SCD diet but I am so burned out on the darn diet stuff! It would probably change our lives, though. I totally believe in it. Keep on planting the seeds, I will eventually get around to cultivating...

Edited October 14, 2010 by Stephanie2

[Fixit]

 

So many things could have been happening. My first thought was die-off, but usually that happens the first day! Then I was thinking that it created yeast pretty quickly. Another thing is maybe it was FIGHTING yeast and making room for bacteria which cropped up within the next couple days? Also, many ppl use it as an antiviral to reduce the level of latent viruses that are lying dormant in the body but are wreaking havoc on the child. I hear that the viral die-off symptoms last about a month. A lot of thoughts...hope something helps!

 

 

 

ok...so..if its viral..could that die off cause congestion...like they say lyme die off might make you congested...

 

ds started ole right after clinda....

we got up to 1000mg 3x a day and the next day he looked like his allergies in the spring...

i'm thinking...omg...his fall allergies are now as bad as his spring allergies..

went to docs on wednes..to make sure it wasn't a sinus infec..as he had ta 4 weeks ago tomorrow....

ole was started about 9 days ago...his vocals this week are terrible(i think teacher is getting annoyed)...no motors(knock,knock)

but if you know tics...a reverese sensation can trigger the tic...

ie..if you have arm tic and you were a tight shirt...your arm tics more...

sooo....ds is so congested...when we do pulse with water solution(not netti..it's electronic pulser)...snot just pours out....

he's coughing, hacking, suckking snot..clearing..some grunts like to shoot it out..suck...(i'm trying to say his drainage is triggering these huge vocals...90% of them sound like a cold on over drive)

 

COULD THIS BE HERXING???????

this could last a month??!!!!!??????!!!!!(assuming its the ole kicking some virus BUM and not allergies)

[mom love]

Thanks for your thoughts Stephanie. I wish I could contribute to your issues. You're in it way over my understanding. You remind me of the hard core protocol I read about in Jenny McCarthy's book that she and others she learned from went through.

 

Fixit, what is this electric pulse thing you are talking about? Thanks for all those gross details too... needed to read that right after dinner. JK

[Stephanie2]

 

So many things could have been happening. My first thought was die-off, but usually that happens the first day! Then I was thinking that it created yeast pretty quickly. Another thing is maybe it was FIGHTING yeast and making room for bacteria which cropped up within the next couple days? Also, many ppl use it as an antiviral to reduce the level of latent viruses that are lying dormant in the body but are wreaking havoc on the child. I hear that the viral die-off symptoms last about a month. A lot of thoughts...hope something helps!

 

 

 

ok...so..if its viral..could that die off cause congestion...like they say lyme die off might make you congested...

 

ds started ole right after clinda....

we got up to 1000mg 3x a day and the next day he looked like his allergies in the spring...

i'm thinking...omg...his fall allergies are now as bad as his spring allergies..

went to docs on wednes..to make sure it wasn't a sinus infec..as he had ta 4 weeks ago tomorrow....

ole was started about 9 days ago...his vocals this week are terrible(i think teacher is getting annoyed)...no motors(knock,knock)

but if you know tics...a reverese sensation can trigger the tic...

ie..if you have arm tic and you were a tight shirt...your arm tics more...

sooo....ds is so congested...when we do pulse with water solution(not netti..it's electronic pulser)...snot just pours out....

he's coughing, hacking, suckking snot..clearing..some grunts like to shoot it out..suck...(i'm trying to say his drainage is triggering these huge vocals...90% of them sound like a cold on over drive)

 

COULD THIS BE HERXING???????

this could last a month??!!!!!??????!!!!!(assuming its the ole kicking some virus BUM and not allergies)

 

If I remember right, yes both kids had some congestion/sneezing/cold symptoms with the start of OLE, but could be coincidence. Definitley crossed my mind that it could be herxing. But they did not have an increase of tics, only an immediate decrease (within 3 days all pandas symptoms gone).

 

I think you need to pray about this one, fixit. Or go with your mommy instinct. I know how much you hate the vocals (ditto) so you have to either see it through for a month or say NO WAY! Maybe wait at least until the congestion is gone...??!

 

 

Thanks for your thoughts Stephanie. I wish I could contribute to your issues. You're in it way over my understanding. You remind me of the hard core protocol I read about in Jenny McCarthy's book that she and others she learned from went through.

 

Fixit, what is this electric pulse thing you are talking about? Thanks for all those gross details too... needed to read that right after dinner. JK

 

I have to give Jenny the credit for leading me to the DAN protocol - it has been a life-saver in our house. Although, our DAN doc admittedly says that PANDAS is their hardest thing to manage. Get this - DS2's autism symptoms were GONE within a month of the protocol. PANDAS? That little pest will stay with us for a long time... some may disagree, but for us autism has been a walk in the park compared to pandas...

[Fixit]

Thanks for your thoughts Stephanie. I wish I could contribute to your issues. You're in it way over my understanding. You remind me of the hard core protocol I read about in Jenny McCarthy's book that she and others she learned from went through.

 

Fixit, what is this electric pulse thing you are talking about? Thanks for all those gross details too... needed to read that right after dinner. JK

 

You're welcome

and to complitment that..

 

it's by GROSSan

hydro-pulse..got it from compounding place..

and solutions contains xyltiol

you dont have to tilt head, but you definitely want to be over sink!!!!!

[lynn2]

Now that is interesting. The day I started OLE DS told me all about the same symptoms you just described Fixit. In even more vivid 14 year ols detail too. It lasted a few days, then cleared up. Olive leaf extract is generally believed to interfere with the operation of abx, so it is best not to give it when you are on abx. It also really ramps up yeast for us.

[Fixit]

 

So many things could have been happening. My first thought was die-off, but usually that happens the first day! Then I was thinking that it created yeast pretty quickly. Another thing is maybe it was FIGHTING yeast and making room for bacteria which cropped up within the next couple days? Also, many ppl use it as an antiviral to reduce the level of latent viruses that are lying dormant in the body but are wreaking havoc on the child. I hear that the viral die-off symptoms last about a month. A lot of thoughts...hope something helps!

 

 

 

ok...so..if its viral..could that die off cause congestion...like they say lyme die off might make you congested...

 

ds started ole right after clinda....

we got up to 1000mg 3x a day and the next day he looked like his allergies in the spring...

i'm thinking...omg...his fall allergies are now as bad as his spring allergies..

went to docs on wednes..to make sure it wasn't a sinus infec..as he had ta 4 weeks ago tomorrow....

ole was started about 9 days ago...his vocals this week are terrible(i think teacher is getting annoyed)...no motors(knock,knock)

but if you know tics...a reverese sensation can trigger the tic...

ie..if you have arm tic and you were a tight shirt...your arm tics more...

sooo....ds is so congested...when we do pulse with water solution(not netti..it's electronic pulser)...snot just pours out....

he's coughing, hacking, suckking snot..clearing..some grunts like to shoot it out..suck...(i'm trying to say his drainage is triggering these huge vocals...90% of them sound like a cold on over drive)

 

COULD THIS BE HERXING???????

this could last a month??!!!!!??????!!!!!(assuming its the ole kicking some virus BUM and not allergies)

 

If I remember right, yes both kids had some congestion/sneezing/cold symptoms with the start of OLE, but could be coincidence. Definitley crossed my mind that it could be herxing. But they did not have an increase of tics, only an immediate decrease (within 3 days all pandas symptoms gone).

 

I think you need to pray about this one, fixit. Or go with your mommy instinct. I know how much you hate the vocals (ditto) so you have to either see it through for a month or say NO WAY! Maybe wait at least until the congestion is gone...??!

 

 

Thanks for your thoughts Stephanie. I wish I could contribute to your issues. You're in it way over my understanding. You remind me of the hard core protocol I read about in Jenny McCarthy's book that she and others she learned from went through.

 

Fixit, what is this electric pulse thing you are talking about? Thanks for all those gross details too... needed to read that right after dinner. JK

 

I have to give Jenny the credit for leading me to the DAN protocol - it has been a life-saver in our house. Although, our DAN doc admittedly says that PANDAS is their hardest thing to manage. Get this - DS2's autism symptoms were GONE within a month of the protocol. PANDAS? That little pest will stay with us for a long time... some may disagree, but for us autism has been a walk in the park compared to pandas...

 

well ds did have some random motors left....they were to the point(subclinical) i wasn't fixated on them....i haven't seen any in a day or 2....

[matis_mom]

Oh, mati's mom, you are like my conscience, always making me face that which I am avoiding Lyme, SCD, what else do you have for me!!? LOL! J/K...I have so many people pushing me to the darn SCD diet but I am so burned out on the darn diet stuff! It would probably change our lives, though. I totally believe in it. Keep on planting the seeds, I will eventually get around to cultivating...

Happy to keep throwing stuff at you!

Don't think FOREVER. Just try to do it for a couple of days and see if you survive! You are probably not that far from it anyway.

I think I missed this, but... what are their "yeast" symptoms???