kim

Tracey, When I read your post, my first thought was "not likely." Then I remembered an article I read some time ago about a vaccine manufacturer "whistleblower." He made a remark about someone joking in the manufacturing facility about.... wondering how they would all look in prison orange. The procedures that were supposed to be in place regarding the manufacturing, were not being followed. I don't know what quantity a Dr. office would order vaccines in, or if they stick with the same manufacturer or not. Were all of the kids vaccinated close together? I have heard of "hot lots" of vaccines, but the reporting of adverse events is so lacking, that it really has to be a glaring problem for one to be identified (my understanding). If you search something like "Whistleblower Vaccines" you will probably come across the article. Here's one. Scroll down to INTERVIEW WITH A FORMER VACCINE RESEARCHER. http://www.nexusmagazine.com/articles/VaccineResearcher.html Excerpt: In an instance where a child/person clearly has an autoimmune disease, yes, certain vaccines have been shown as being causual. For instance, Guillain-Barré. The problem i see, we have no proof (so far) that these "harmless tics" (I understood your frustration there) are an autoimmune problem as in a "brain attack." PANDAS would be a seperate issue, TS may be a seperate issue and simple tic with or without ADD, ADHD, etc. maybe another. I just don't think enough people have been looking at the immune system long enough or hard enough to know yet. I do believe that's changing. I have a lot of hope for new info from the researchers at the MIND Institute. It was designed to have immunologist, epidemiologist, rheumatologist, etc. (forgive spelling there!) under one roof. It has been said, that different people have different parts of the puzzle, but noone knows what the other guys work is showing. Now, maybe that will change. As I said earlier, it may be a problem with inflammation. Certain cells involved in the immune system may stop functioning too quickly or not quickly enough. They should do their job and then commit suicide (apoptosis). There may be a faulty mechanism there, in some people. The theories and possiblities are almost endless presently. What ever is going on, it's affecting a lot of people neurologically. Right now common sense tells me that the current vaccine schedule is not a good idea. When I read the copy of the letterI signed, authorizing my youngest son's Hep B birth dose. I just can't imagine why it didn't sound any alarm bells. I better end this right now, or I'll be getting into all kinds of things that make ya go Oh yea, what was the question

There are a lot of posted studies in the last couple of days about inflammation, the immune system, and neuro issues. A friend recently sent me an email about her teenage PANDAS son being involved in a study looking at inflammation too. I thought this Parkinsons article was interesting on quite a few points, but the stuff about minocycline caught my eye in particular as I know there has been some thought that this drug may have benefit for PANDAS. Like the autism research, it seems Parkinsons and even alzheimers studies are good things to keep an eye on http://www.nature.com/bjp/journal/v150/n8/pdf/0707167a.pdf British Journal of Pharmacology (2007) It was shown that minocycline, a tetracycline derivative, decreased the production of inflammatory cytokines, such as IL-1b, as well as iNOS and NADPH oxidase, compared with levels in untreated animals (Wu et al., 2002). Similarly, minocycline was shown to have neuroprotective effects on dopaminergic neurons in MPTP, LPS and 6-OHDA models of PD (Du et al., 2001; He et al., 2001; Wu et al., 2002; Tomas- Camardiel et al., 2004). Collectively, this would seem to lend strong support to the potential use of anti-inflammatory drugs in PD. However, such drugs could only be given once the symptoms present and their effects would be to restrict further neurodegeneration and both steroids and NSAIDs have unpleasant and potentially dangerous side effects when given over a long period of time. It may indeed be the case that patients who are on long-term treatment with NSAIDs for conditions such as cardiovascular disease will be protected, but in these individuals the assessment of an anti- PD-like effect is fortuitous and not planned. Although arresting disease progression in PD would be a laudable achievement, reversing the severity of the lesion would clearly be the desired goal.

Yes, Faith that's what the media is reporting. If you click on the link for the 3rd article and read the whole thing, it goes into some detail about why it's premature to draw these conclusions. I am not convinced of anything except that the TRUTH is desperately needed. Personally, I will never feel comfortable about the whole program until a study is done of vaccinated Vs unvaccinated kids, and from what I understand, that probably will not happen anytime soon. I have to think of the remark made by one of the Dr.s at Simpsonwood. He said something like....we don't see this kind of genetic change in decades (meaning genetics cannot be responsible for the huge increase in ASD in recent years). Anyway, I'm watching for news from both sides, on this.

Mom2three, I think I posted this already somewhere, but in addition to all of the information that Carolyn N. is providing you with, I wanted to mention again that the Rescue Remedy that seemed to correlate with the worsening of your daughters symptons has a least on ingredient that is a polyphenol (i only looked at two of them). As Carolyn just posted, puberty, virus or infection, + high phenol could have come together to contribute to the problem. You might want to help your daughter avoid phenol/lsalicylates for a couple of weeks and see if it helps. I think there are many of us here, that have thoughts and prayers going out to you and your daughter. It's always hard to think about a child going through something painful, that noone seems to be able to help with.

Len, We have a couple of posters here who have a lot of experience with chelation and or lead. Claire and Andy don't post much anymore, but are a wealth of information. Carolyn (not Carolyn N) is also doing chelation. You might want to Private Message Andy. His son is near your sons age. He may still read here once in a while, if not, he will still probably get an email notifying him of a private message. Carolyn still posts, so maybe she'll be along. I bumped a thread with posts from Andy and Claire. If you click on their names, you can get to an option where you can read their posts. Claire's son was also doing the Pfeiffer protocol and had lead issues. She found eliminating screens (TV, computer etc) to be a tic factor for her son. Maybe as the lead is being mobilized with the EDTA, your son has had this flair? I though yeast and strep were good bets too.

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Just to keep everyone who is following the news coming out of the California Autism numbers report (continuing to rise with lower levels of thimerosal exposure thru vaccination)............. Remember there have been THREE seperate studies showing a higher incidence of tics in boys with higher thimerosal exposure. http://www.ageofautism.com/2007/12/index.html http://www.ageofautism.com/2007/12/emails-from-cdc.html#more EMAILS FROM CDC AND FDA ON VACCINES AND MERCURY By Twyla Ramos Has Mercury Really Been Removed from Vaccines? Last month I emailed the CDC to ask this question: From: Twyla Ramos Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 1:19 AM To: CDC Public Inquiry Subject: mercury in vaccines I understand that thimerosal is no longer used as a preservative in most vaccines, except for most flu shots and vaccines shipped to other countries. Have you been wondering just how much thimerosal is considered a "trace amount" by the FDA and who, if anyone, is testing mercury content in currently licensed vaccines? Congressman Burton is wondering the same thing - and he's asking the FDA for answers. Click here to read his letter. (pdf) http://www.nationalautismassociation.org/pdf/burtonfda.pdf http://www.injuryboard.com/national-news/p...?googleid=29202 Parents Say California Autism Study is Flawed Posted by Jane Akre Tuesday, January 22, 2008 1:51 PM EST Critics say the premise of a newly published study that discounts thimerosal's link to autism is flawed. The study, published in the Archives of General Psychiatry, finds that the number of autism cases among California children continued to increase from January 1995 to March 2007 despite the discontinuance of the mercury containing preservative in vaccines. Therefore the California Department of Developmental Services (DDS) concludes that, "The DDS data do not show any recent decrease in autism in California despite the exclusion of more than trace levels of thimerosal from nearly all childhood vaccines. The DDS data do not support the hypothesis that exposure to thimerosal during childhood is a primary cause of autism." Critics say the premise of the study is wrong. Rick Rollens tells IB News, "The conclusions in the study are flawed and premature, and does nothing to exonerate vaccines, particularly mercury containing vaccines, as a cause of California's autism epidemic," he said. Rollens is the father of a 17-year-old son with autism. He is also the co-founder of the University of California Davis M.I.N.D. Institute and a member of the California Legislative Blue Ribbon Commission on Autism, which helped craft a 2006 law in the state mandating that all of the mercury-based preservative be removed from childhood vaccines.

Michelle, I don't think that PANDAS involvement is cited anywhere as being anything but suspected in ASD's or even Tourettes for that matter. Autism is a spectrum disorder, and I believe tourette syndrome/disorder is considered a spectrum disorder too, but so far they are seperate disorders. Maybe as time goes on they will find out what genetics are involved and what the overlappes are, if any, and I sure would be surprised if there weren't some. Neither of the boys have or ever had autism. With autism you will see phrases like " impaired social interaction and communication." That has never been a problem. Oldest was irratable in the social interactions during his preschool years, but I'm sure the parent of a child with full blown autism, would resent that comparison. As far as PANDAS, there have been times when I would say that it was like someone flipped a switch, but that would have been before I knew what I was looking for. I don't remember it being a dramatic as what parents here have described, so I guess I would say "no" to that too. I sure will keep posting anything that may show a relationship. I had started a thread where I was looking for any information on how immune function may affect neurotransmitters. I want to know why these things get out of whack when the kids get sick. I thought these studies were pretty interesting. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=A...7c4627c192a452a Available online 6 August 2007. Initially, the idea that neurotransmitters could serve as immunomodulators emerged with the discovery that their release and diffusion from nervous tissue could lead to signaling through lymphocyte cell-surface receptors and the modulation of immune function. It is now evident that neurotransmitters can also be released from leukocytes and act as autocrine or paracrine modulators. Here, we review the data indicating that leukocytes synthesize and release ‘neurotransmitters’ and we also discuss the diverse effects that these compounds exert in a variety of immune cells. The role of neurotransmitters in immune-related diseases is also reviewed succinctly. Current and future developments in understanding the cross-talk between the immune and nervous systems will probably identify new avenues for treating immune-mediated diseases using agonists or antagonists of neurotransmitter receptors http://www.jimmunol.org/cgi/reprint/177/10/6695 Glutamate Released by Dendritic Cells as a Novel Modulator of T Cell Activation1 Rodrigo Pacheco,* Harold Oliva,2†‡ Jose´ M. Martinez-Navı´o,2* Nu´ ria Climent,†‡ Francisco Ciruela,* Jose´ M. Gatell,‡§ Teresa Gallart,†‡ Josefa Mallol,* Carmen Lluis,* and Rafael Franco3* Adaptive immune responses begin after productive immunosynaptic contacts formation established in secondary lymphoid organs by dendritic cells (DC) presenting the Ag to T lymphocytes. Despite its resemblance to the neurosynapse, the participation of soluble small nonpeptidic mediators in the intercellular cross-talk taking place during T cell–DC interactions remains poorly studied. In this study, we show that human DC undergoing maturation and in contact with T cells release significant amounts of glutamate, which is the main excitatory neurotransmitter in mammalians. The release of glutamate is nonvesicular and mediated by the DC-expressed Xc cystine/glutamate antiporter. DC-derived glutamate stimulating the constitutively expressed metabotropic glutamate receptor 5 impairs T cell activation. However, after productive Ag presentation, metabotropic glutamate receptor 1 is expressed in T cells to mediate enhanced T cell proliferation and secretion of Th1 and proinflammatory cytokines. These data suggest that, during T cell–DC interaction, glutamate is a novel and highly effective regulator in the initiation of T cell-mediated immune responses. The Journal of Immunology, 2006, 177: 6695–6704.

loofagirl, Our regular pediatrician did test zinc levels, thyroid function, urine anaylsis, lead blood test (which will only show ongoing exposure..not past which may be stored in tissue or bone) P5P/B6 level, glidian antibody (celiac marker), yeast (blood test). Now this was a totally conventional practice. I even got him to order IgG testing (blood for food sensitivities). It only tested 20 foods, but it was useful and covered by insurance. Most Dr.s aren't even aware that that test is available. You may have to call the lab where you usually have testing done, describe the test that you want, and ask them what the code #'s are. Be sure to stress that it is the IgG type not IgE. If they can give it to you, you can tell the Dr. office that you have already talked with the lab and have the code for the test. I would really suggest that you do the leg work yourself, before you get to your Dr.s office, so they can't tell you that they don't do that type of testing. Carolyn here, had shared on the bd. along time ago that it's important not to say that you want testing (like the IGg food sensitivities) in relationship to tics/ts, as insurance will not cover it, if the office puts "tourette syndrome" in the diagnosis area. You have to say that you want it because your son seems to wheeze, get constipated ANYTHING, other than you think certain foods contribute to tics. I'm only talking about IgG testing. The rest of the tests can usually be ordered pretty routinely, i believe, so insurance will probably not question?

Sunshine, I had visited a site with many videos set to that music before. I sat and cried watching them for more than an hour. There have been some issues that I have paid attention to during the political debates this year, that have never been a consideration for me in the past. Someone who's campaign is largely funded by Pharma, for instance, would probably not be a favorite for me. Also, views on environmental pollution regulation etc. probably would not have been a real priority before. Sometimes I long for the ignorant place where I used to dwell I hope it's ok if I include a study here The study was released at the 4th International Meeting for Autism Research (IMFAR) – a meeting of autism scientists started by Cure Autism Now, the UC Davis M.I.N.D. Institute and the National Alliance for Autism Research to accelerate knowledge of this increasingly common and perplexing disorder. It is estimated that autism now affects 1 in every 166 children. "Understanding the biology of autism is crucial to developing better ways to diagnose and treat it," said Judy Van de Water, associate professor of rheumatology, allergy and clinical immunology at the UC Davis School of Medicine and the UC Davis M.I.N.D. Institute. "While impaired communication and social skills are the hallmarks of the disorder, there has not yet been strong scientific evidence that the immune system is implicated as well. We now need to design carefully controlled studies that tell us even more about the way in which a dysfunctional immune system may or may not play a role in the disorder itself." Van de Water, along with co-investigator of the study Paul Ashwood, assistant professor of medical microbiology and immunology at the UC Davis M.I.N.D. Institute, isolated immune cells from blood samples taken from 30 children with autism and 26 typically developing children aged between two and five years of age. The cells from both groups were then exposed to bacterial and viral agents that usually provoke T-cells, B cells and macrophages – primary players in the immune system. Of the agents tested in the study - tetanus toxoid, lippopolysaccharide derived from E. coli cell walls, a plant lectin known as PHA, and a preparation of the measles, mumps and rubella vaccine antigens - the researchers found clear differences in cellular responses between patients and controls following exposure to the bacterial agents and PHA. In response to bacteria, the researchers saw lower levels of protein molecules called cytokines in the group with autism. Cytokines function as mediators of the immune response, carrying messages between B, T and other immune cells. They also are known to be capable of having profound effects on the central nervous system, including sleep and the fever response. Immune system responses to PHA, in contrast, produced more varied cytokine levels: Higher levels of certain cytokines and lower levels of others. According to Van de Water and Ashwood, these studies illustrate that under similar circumstances, the cytokine responses elicited by the T-cells, B-cells, and macrophage cell populations following their activation differs markedly in children with autism compared to age-matched children in the general population. Cytokines are known to affect mood and behavior, and while their specific role in the development of autism remains unclear, the potential connection is an intriguing area of research that warrants further investigation. "This study is part of a larger effort to learn how changes in immune system response may make some children more susceptible to the harmful effects of environmental agents," said Kenneth Olden, director of the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences, the federal agency that provided funding for the study. "A better understanding of the connection between altered immune response and autism may lead to significant advances in the early detection, prevention and treatment of this complex neurological disorder." "We would like to take these findings and explore whether, for example, the cytokine differences are specific to certain subsets of patients with autism, such as those with early onset, or those who exhibit signs of autism later during development, " Ashwood said. He added that the logical next step is to look directly at specific cell populations that may be responsible for the diverging responses between patients and controls. This study was supported by grants from the National Institutes of Environmental Health Sciences, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, the UC Davis M.I.N.D. Institute, Ted Lindsay Foundation and Visceral. The UC Davis M.I.N.D. (Medical Investigation of Neurodevelopmental Disorders) Institute is a unique collaborative center for research into the causes and treatments of autism, bringing together parents, scientists, clinicians and educators. For further information, go to http://www.ucdmc. ucdavis.edu/ mindinstitute. Some info on cytokines cross posted for autism info. Amazing group of dedicated parents that share information there too! Cytokines are a group of substances secreted by Cells of the Immune System. "Although the normal role of Cytokines is to defend against infection and Cancer, they may kill Neurons " Biological Functions of Cytokines Immune System Cytokines stimulate the Immune System's Cells to grow, replicate and become more active, thereby assisting any battles against Antigens. Cytokines attract other cells of the Immune System to the site of and help to "orchestrate" the healing and repair of injuries and inflammations. Skin Cytokines secreted by Macrophages are involved in the healing of Wounds - they stimulate Fibroblasts to increase the synthesis of Collagen and Elastin. These Substances may Regulate Cytokines Production Enzymes In most instances, supplemental Proteases may regulate the production of various Cytokines (depending on the individual situation, Proteases may increase production of certain Cytokines in localized areas of the body and/or decrease production of certain Cytokines in other areas of the body). [more info] These Herbs may Stimulate the Production of Cytokines Substances that increase the endogenous production of Cytokines are known as Immunopotentiators. Echinacea may stimulate the production of various Cytokines. [more info] Toxic Effects of Excessive Production of Cytokines Immune System Excessive production of Cytokines may be implicated in Autoimmune Diseases - people who have Autoimmune Diseases have a 50% greater production of Cytokines than healthy people. Nervous System Although the normal role of Cytokines is to defend against infection and Cancer, they may kill Neurons - the body minimizes such Neuron destruction by restricting the passage of Cytokines of Blood Vessels into the Central Nervous System. These Substances may Inhibit the Production of Excessive Cytokines Peptides Glutathione may inhibit the excessive production of Cytokines that is implicated in Autoimmune Diseases. [more info] Sulfuric Compounds Glucosinolates may help to regulate the body's production of Cytokines. [more info] Notes on the Therapeutic use of Exogenous Cytokines Mainstream medicine is increasingly able to synthesize artificial (recombinant) versions of Cytokines for the purpose of mimicking the regulatory effects that the body's own Cytokines exert. It is noteworthy that the systemic administration of recombinant, exogenous Cytokines only rarely provides the therapeutic success being sought. Instead this therapy is frequently associated with (sometimes severe) adverse effects in other regions. Cytokines are part of an obscure network of communication that primarily involves local physiological interactions. The systemic administration of Cytokines provides no selective influence on local immune reactions and can often cause negative effects on the entire body. Types of Cytokines Colony-Stimulating Factors Lymphokines Monokines Tumor Necrosis Factor

Calicat, If magnesium keeps that spider away, I'd keep a big ole bottle real handy. He sounds terrifying. We live near the water, so usually when I think i'm seeing one of those, I am. Not sure which way I'd rather have it! Toms Mom, I'm not sure what you read about the ""calm" products in relationship to magnesium. I know in high doses (from what I remember it was really high) if kidney function was abnormal, magnesium could build to toxic levels. I don't remember anything in relationship to kidney stones with magnesium, but I have read a bit about calcium and oxalates in regards to them. If this condition runs in your family, you might want to study up on it. There is a diet called the LOD (low oxalates diet) and a discussion group for people following this diet. Susan Owens is the one that has done a lot of research in the area of oxalates and autism. I just want to mention once again that neither of my boys are autistic, I just find the latest and greatest info googling whatever I'm searching and attaching the word "autism" to it. Anyway, if you search Susan Owens+oxalates, you'll bring up quite a few articles. http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=george&dbid=48 Oxalates and kidney stones The formation of kidney stones containing oxalate is an area of controversy in clinical nutrition with respect to dietary restriction of oxalate. About 80% of kidney stones formed by adults in the U.S. are calcium oxalate stones. It is not clear from the research, however, that restriction of dietary oxalate helps prevent formation of calcium oxalate stones in individuals who have previously formed such stones. Since intake of dietary oxalate accounts for only 10-15% of the oxalate that is found in the urine of individuals who form calcium oxalate stones, many researchers believe that dietary restriction cannot significantly reduce risk of stone formation. http://www.stillpointhealth.com/LowOxalate...Suggestion.html Theory: Why may someone with autism need a low oxalate diet? Oxalate is a highly reactive molecule that is abundant in many plant foods, but in human cells, when it is present in high amounts, it can lead to oxidative damage, depletion of glutathione, the igniting of the immune system's inflammatory cascade, and the formation of crystals which seem to be associated with pain and prolonged injury (Chronic inflammation is at the root of most, if not all chronic degenerative conditions, including cancer, diabetes, heart disease and neurological conditions such as multiple sclerosis, ALS and autism. In autism, I talked for years that chronic inflammation in the digestive system can be a trigger for inflammation throughout the rest of the body including a child’s nervous system. One assumption that can definitely be made is that most, if not all kids on the spectrum have some level of neurological inflammation. Inflammation causes cell damage, metabolic disruption and death. If inflammation is being generated in the digestive tract this will eventually lead to cell damage, leaky gut, immune problems and the overgrowth of yeast - KW). Ordinarily, not much oxalate is absorbed from the diet, but the level of absorption has to do with the condition of the gut. There is a lot of medical literature showing that when the gut is inflamed, when there is poor fat digestion (steatorrhea), when there is a leaky gut, or when there is prolonged diarrhea or constipation, excess oxalate from foods that are eaten can be absorbed from the GI tract and become a risk to other cells in the body. Since these gastrointestinal conditions are found frequently in autism, it seemed reasonable to see if lowering the dietary supply of oxalates could be beneficial (Unfortunately, there are some highly beneficial foods that are high in oxalates such as some fruits, vegetables, seeds and nuts. However, if you take a look at the list of foods under the Low Oxalate Diet food list you will see that there are plenty of options still left to eat. The likely scenario is that some children will need to avoid some high and medium oxalate foods for a while until their digestive system has a chance to heal - KW). http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:5f02w...;cd=5&gl=us When you have inflamed gut, Crohn’s for example, very few oxalates are absorbed. So since autistic kids often have inflamed gut, it made sense to have a low-oxalate diet. We did a pilot study with 7 kids. All 7 were high in oxalates, and started the diet. They had problems with frequent urination, GI pain, etc. within a couple hours of eating. They had changes in behavior following eating. Things started changing with the diet. A lot of the things we’ve been calling yeasty behaviors go away with a low-oxalate diet. A lot of these kids had trouble taking DMG and TMG, glycine in general. We saw problems with constipation/diarrhea in these kids before the diet, even after being treated by GI docs. A lot of these children had trouble when introducing nuts, legumes, soy. A lot of these kids craved high-oxalate foods. http://www.gicare.com/pated/edtgs29.htm About 80% of all kidney stones are composed of calcium and other minerals, usually a combination of calcium and oxalate. In some cases dietary adjustments help to prevent the recurrence of these types of stones.

Kallik, I believe that you can have negative blood testing, and still have a very real problem with candida overgrowth. Candida testing is kind of a tricky subject. Some recommend a stool test, but they have a reputation of being, not totally reliable, because they can miss yeast as it tends to "clump." As i mentioned in another thread, the Great Plains OAT test is probably the one that you will hear many/most DAN Dr.s ordering and relying on for accuracy. It's a urine test. Candida testing reminds me a lot of what Caryn has been describing with celiac testing. A positive blood test or visible thrush are all the reg Dr.s seem to acknowledge because there is disagreement over the scientific proof that the elevated substance that is tested (D arabinatol is what Great Plains tests for), definitively proves candida overgrowth and symptoms that are thought to be related. Dr. Shaw from Great Plains has some pretty darn impressive credentials though and there are sooooo many reports of improvements when some children are treated, it's good enough for me. I had the testing done thru another lab that tests a different substance, and wish i would have had the Great Plains test instead. Here is a link to their site http://www.greatplainslaboratory.com/russi...minterview.html

Carolyn N, Your info is very helpful to me too, so thank you right back. I would love to hear more details about any info that you had clarified thru Houston's. I'm sure others would too. I know no fenol is supposed to weaken the outer shell of candida. My impression was that, yes, enzymes can help kill yeast (mostly by getting rid of undigested junk like carbs) but more so, that No Fenol would make an antifungal more effective. Is that the impression that you got? I'm a little at a loss on the apple cider vinegar thing. My oldest son can not tolerate vitamin C. It gives him reflux. He even complained of it with sodium ascorbate, as opposed to asorbic acid. I'm a fan of vit C, and believe that it is important in allergy/histimine control also. Enzymes help his reflux symptoms, which have always seemed to correlate with tic flare ups. I only remember that from the early years (before i knew anything about any of these connections) because his worst tic was always head shaking. I used to think that he was literally throwing acid into his esophagus with the head shaking itself. Maybe i should try the vit c with enzymes. I'm just a bit reluctant to use anything that increases stomach acid, without knowing exactly what is going on. I know raising acid levels in the wrong child can have negative effects, so i would like to hear any thoughts you have there too! My old Pediatrician prescribed Prevacid for frequent stomach aches and the allergist prescribed zantac for allergy control along with two other meds. Now giving Zantac and Prevacid to a child who is already low in the acid dept. would not be good, especially long term, IMO!

Tatoomom...say that isn't true! A school that won't accept proof of titers? I have never heard of that one! Has anyone challenged it that you know of? I guess when Pamela Kay said It made me think back on what I may or may not have done differently with my boys, with the mild symptoms that her daughter has, and the MMR popped right to mind. By the time my 2nd son came along, we did have a family history (his older brother) so regardless of what may or may not have been a trigger, genetics has to be involved, i believe. I guess we fall somewhere inbetween family history and no family history. Pamela Kay, I think the difference btwn kids that crave sweets and regular "kids like sweets" thing, is that a sweet craver can eat a bag of M&M's with juice drink and want cupcakes and pop 10 minutes later. That was something i just couldn't get through the Peds heads. It wasn't normal. If your sweetie would eat brownies over green beans, that is normal for most kids, I agree! On a different note, I'm just going to throw something out here. I may be sliding off of my rocker, but I'm wondering if you could comment on whether anything in these studies sound related in anyway to your daughters kidney condition? I guess the only thing I'm wondering if you could comment on, really, is the "morphogenesis" part. I'm pretty sure it was Deedee who mentioned something about a kidney glitch with her daughter, now you mentioned it, and i think there was one other Mom who mentioned a daughter with a similar problem (although I could be remembering an older post of yours). Because of the recent discussion about sulfur and bony tumors, heparan sulfate.....this just caught my attention. Can't say what it means, if anything It just makes me wonder if there is anything here, especially if we have 3 little girls with any type of common kidney condition? Wikipedia gives this definition of morphogenesis Morphogenesis (from the Greek morphê shape and genesis creation) is one of three fundamental aspects of developmental biology along with the control of cell growth and cellular differentiation. Morphogenesis is concerned with the shapes of tissues, organs and entire organisms and the positions of the various specialized cell types. These were two of the studies that i had saved Glial cell line-derived neurotrophic factor (GDNF) has many functions including regulation of kidney morphogenesis and of neuron growth and survival in the enteric, sensory and central nervous systems. Reports of GDNF being used against Parkinson's disease in human patients have sparked intense clinical interest in GDNF signalling. We recently showed that GDNF signalling requires cell surface heparan sulphate glycosaminoglycans (Barnett et al., 2002, J. Cell Sci. 115, 4495-4503). Here we use exogenous modified heparins to determine those structural features required to inhibit GDNF signalling in ex vivo assays. 2-O-sulphate groups were found to impart high activity but were not absolute requirements for the inhibition of GDNF signalling. These findings may explain the similarities between the phenotypes of transgenic mice lacking GDNF and those lacking heparan sulphate 2-sulphotransferase, the enzyme responsible for achieving 2-O-sulphation of uronic acids in vivo. Keywords: GDNF; Heparin; Heparan sulphate; HSPG; hs2st; Glycosaminoglycan; FGF, fibroblast growth factor; GAG, glycosaminoglycan; GDNF, glial cell line-derived neurotrophic factor; GlcNAc, -acetylglucosamine; GlcA, glucuronic acid; GlcNSO, -sulphated glucosamine; HGF, hepatocyte growth factor; IdoA, Iduronic acid and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GDNF Glial cell derived neurotrophic factor, also known as GDNF, is a small protein that potently promotes the survival of many types of neurons [1] This gene encodes a highly conserved neurotrophic factor. The recombinant form of this protein was shown to promote the survival and differentiation of dopaminergic neurons in culture, and was able to prevent apoptosis of motor neurons induced by axotomy. The encoded protein is processed to a mature secreted form that exists as a homodimer. The mature form of the protein is a ligand for the product of the RET (rearranged during transfection) protooncogene. In addition to the transcript encoding GDNF, two additional alternative transcripts encoding distinct proteins, referred to as astrocyte-derived trophic factors, have also been described. Mutations in this gene may be associated with Hirschsprung disease.[1]

Pamela Kay, I'm glad to hear that everthing else seems so well. I guess we are probably in different situations here, as my youngest son clearly turned a corner with diet at around 1 year. He not only craved sweets, he eliminated almost everything that wasn't sweet. He also had that red botty ring, that is often discussed in relationship to candida overgrowth. I do want to mention one thing, because it is something that i have done so much research on. Please be careful about vaccines. Your daughter will probably be due for her second MMR at around 5. Please be aware that the CDC website says that the 2nd MMR is not a booster. It is given to catch the 3 to 5% (i'm almost certain that's the number, you may want to verify) that did not develope immunity from the first one. Most who read here know that i have some real concerns about todays vaccine schedule. Please be aware that you can have titers drawn to see if she has what they consider adequate immunity already, assuming she received the first one a 1 year old.

Caryn, I probably shouldn't respond to this as we have never done strict avoidance but.... Try to bear with me here. MaryAnn's comment on another thread about her daughters yeast results, made me wonder about something that has created confusion (at least for me) here in the past. I too had celiac and candida blood tests for the boys. Both negative. When we discussed this here, Claire pointed out to me, that products like Nystatin, don't get into the bloodstream and her understanding was that urine or stool were required to rule out candida overgrowth. Negative blood work, just is not enough to rule out a problem. I know the OAT test (urine) from Great Plains is highly regarded. Anyway, after reading a bit about blood testing, one article said that the anitbodies would show up in blood work if there was leaky gut. So, I have to wonder if the degree of permeability is the real factor here, with enzyme use, OR candida treatment. Maybe there are bad guys around in abundance, but not enought to actually cause leaky gut? I can see where enzymes would cause different symptoms, depending on that factor. I don't ever remember seeing an increase in tics in relationship to enzyme use. My oldest son tested IgG positive to almost all grains, and we have minimized somewhat (he doesn't eat bread or buns, but loves pasta and breaded items like chicken nuggets) but have never totally knocked anything out of his diet. Same with youngest son, only he showed cows milk highly reactive, not the grains. You will have to be sure to let us know what you decide, and what the results are, if you go ahead.

Pamela Kay, I sure understand your anxiety, but, take it from a Mom with a 2nd child affected, if it does turn out that your daughter is experiencing OCD or a mild tic, you will survive it. I think you will be much quicker to recognize little symptoms that may just pass without any real problem too though. The second child benefits from everything that you have learned previously. Mom suffers! We notice everything with younger children IMO, that we wouldn't have paid any attention to, if it wouldn't have been for the prior experience. The best advice i can offer is to listen to your mommy signals and follow your instincts. Does your daughter crave any particular foods? Sugar, carbs, dairy? Does she have dark circles? Are stools normal? Does the germ phobia go in cycles, or is it always present? Three, seems so young to have the germ concept! I bet your going to have a smart little girl on your hands!

Carolyn N, Without going into too much detail , my vote would definitely be that the enzymes are doing their job. Hang in there, it will get better. When my son had the head shake flare up recently, we started the enzymes regularly again. He refused to take them when he was going somewhere that the type of problem your describing could be, well, a problem. It's kind of ironic to think that living with 3 males, I would get to the point where I'm actually happy to have this reaction. I don't think there is anything quite as funny to boys, as horrible gas! I swear these guys compete with each (kids..not husband, thank goodness!). One thing that i want to mention. I have not been using no fenol with my youngest son. I was mostly interested in zymeprime for carb digestion and peptizyde for protein. I decided to reintroduce, after rereading all of the PST info. I only gave him a 1/2 capsule at most. He had horrible stomach pain about 2 to 3 hours after. He complained of a burning pain in the center of his stomach. It ended in bathroom duty, with loose stools each time. He had a this type of reaction a couple of years ago, when we first started using them too. I know that pain is sometimes an indication that the enzymes are working on areas that are somewhat damaged, but pain is never something that you can really view as good. I'm only giving him a sprinkle currently. We are going VERY slowly with no fenol.

Tom's Mom Just wanted to let you know that my oldest son had that type of problem too. He had a hard time falling asleep, napping, etc from a very young age. He also used to get out of his bed and end up at the end of our bed or on the floor next to it. Boy, time flies and i've forgotten a lot, as far as at what age it was the worst but he used to get up, like you're describing. He would repeat "I'm sorry," over and over. He seemed so distraught, it was heart breaking. To this day, i think that's why i'm up 1/2 of the night. I just got used to being "on call." He never remembered the episodes either. It did pass. He does still occasionally wake up at nite and do something odd, like take the light bulb out of a lamp near his bed. He'll laugh in the morning about something that he must done in his room during the night. Most of the time, he just moves something. I wish I could remember if there was anything in particular that we started doing when that improved.

Caryn, Since you are so up on this topic, I was wondering if you have any opinion or have read anything about a product called Gluten Ease? It's made by Enzymatica i believe. I googled "gluten ease enzyme" and came up with a lot of articles, but thought you might have already looked into it?

Carolyn N, Have you read this page? http://www.enzymestuff.com/discussionadjustments.htm#1 I think any DAN or Dr. who is works outside the box, would have some knowledge of this problem. You can always print things that you think pertain to your son, and record any reactions that you think are associated. If you call someone to make an appt.you may want to ask for the Dr. to call you personally first, think of some pointed brief questions to ask, and sort of get a feel for them before you commit to a $300.00 per hour appt! You could also ask to speak to the Dr.s nurse. They can be a wealth of info and not as rushed. You can ask what sort of testing the Dr. orders most frequently etc. I also wanted to mention that if you suspect a problem in this area be sure to keep your son away from any thimerosal containing vaccines. Mercury screws up sulfur metabolism Be especially cautious of the FLU shots. Many still contain thimerosal. There is also some discussion on other forums about how the vaccines that are processed with thimerosal that is supposed to be filtered out during final processing leaving only "trace" amts. is regulated. http://tuberose.com/Sulphur_and_Mercury.html

Michele, Are you using the enzymes again, since getting away from the diet? Wondering if Andrew ever complained of stomach pain after you introduced the enzymes?

Q'smom, Try here. http://www.kirkmanlabs.com/products/minera...rals_index.html We use calcium citrate. They are coated tablets, so i really can't comment on taste. I checked one of Kirkman's flavored powders and it's carbonate and citrate. I would not go with carbonate as a first choice, but there are quite a few to choose from.

Carolyn. Great post! You have been busy, haven't you There are some theories on how sulfur metabolism plays into strep, also there may be some info on this thread that you may want to read. http://www.latitudes.org/forums/index.php?...=2844&st=15 I didn't follow the links in your post, but if you haven't read the original work by Waring on this subject, you might want to read this too. http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:8RCav...;cd=7&gl=us R.H. Waring, School of Biosciences, University of Birmingham, Birmingham. B15 2TT U.K.

CP Claire actually told me how to cut and paste Just highlight what you are trying to copy by left clicking (hold it down) while dragging the cursor over the text that you want to copy. Then right click, and chose the copy oaption. Right click again, and chose the paste option to drop it where you want it. Now, i want to see a link in your next post! HTH's!!! I just tried my own instructions, and thought i better include that you need to keep your cursor somewhere on the highlighted area when you right click or it will "unhighlight" your text.