orthomolecular

I'm not sure why exactly epsom salts is a problem for some. But I am familiar with problems with sulfation. This is the body's way of converting sulfites into sulfates. Only sulfates can be excreted so the WRONG kind of sulfur is known to cause some people a problem. But magnesium sulfate contains the right kind of sulfar; so that is the part that is puzzling me. I think the best sulfur supplement though is SAMe. This can be expensive and after sometime substituted with methionine. I looked up some info on the SNP and it is basically a problem with folic acid (B9). There is a form of B9 recommneded for this type. The problem with sulfur means it has a nutritional basis. I think the genetic testing is one way of confirming high histamine levels. This condition, AKA histadelia, is treated by an orthomolecular approach. And it is true that high doses of B6 would be a problem for this type and even a high protein diet. Another approach and way to possibly research this is metabolic typing (MT). These are fast oxidizers in MT which has macro-nutrient diet recommendations. And MT may also have some supplement info as well, like the correct form of vitamin C to take (ascorbic acid or mineral abscorbates). I mention these approaches because I think they can make the subject a bit easier to wrap your brain around instead of taking it from a DNA methylation prospective. The right form of B9. http://nwclinic.com/L5.html This forum post has a lot of info. http://adhdldsupport.proboards107.com/inde...1126&page=1 This site makes me want to ask if you (the mother) took a prenatal vitamin during pregnancy. Histadelics should avoid B9 especially in high doses. A mother with histadelia would explain why a child would have high histamine levels (or histadelia). (I don't know if it is genetic or congenital; almost the same thing though.) http://www.ehponline.org/members/2006/9166/9166.html But generally problems with methylation can be corrected with the right nutritional approach (working with a qualified professional of course). And methylation problems are important to treat because faulty metthylation will cause faulty DNA methylation. Faulty DNA methylatin is how gene expression is turned on. (This goes back to if it is really genetic or congenital. If the mother had faulty methylation then that might explain why the child has this mutation, perhaps). Another site I like is enzymestuff.com. She explains about using epsom salts in hand lotion, or sprayed on the body, and also explains about sulfation and transulfation. And mentions some enzymes that may help with phenol problems. This type can have reactions to phenols.

I am not familiar with Risperdal. But I have to take tryptophan and DLPA to increase my serotonin levels and my catecholamine levels. Dopamine (DA) is converted into norepinephrine (NE) and epinephrine (E). All three (not serotonin but dopamine, NE and E) are referred to collectively as catecholamines. So dopamine and NE and E are the same almost in terms of what supplements you take. I do know that when I take higher than normal tryptophan this increases my serotonin levels and has the effect of lowering my dopamine levels. So I know from my own personal experience and what I have read that serotonin and DA really balance one another. If one gets high that makes the other one seem low. So my guess is that your son is taking that drug to lower his DA levels because that might be needed depending on what other supplements (amino acids really) he is taking. But my vitamin b6 dependency means I have low serotonin levels, low DA levels, and low NE and E levels too (at least when I am stressed out). These (NE and E) are stress hormones in the body but they are also neurotransmitters in the brain. And when you are under stress (anyone is under stress) these neuros (NE and E) fire more frequently making them depleted faster. Usually anyone having been stressed out for long periods might need to supplement DLPA or tyrosine. The body just seems to get depleted of these neuros, but this is obviously something your doctor would be able to help you with. I am not sure how your son would adjust his supplements if the stress level in his life changes. Your doctor is probably the best one to ask about that. Being young he may not need to supplement for low NE or E levels, but that is just a guess.

No, I heard about the problem with bees in the news. I remember thinking that this will have an effect on some plants and how they get pollenated. Produce prices will probably be effected by this. Most bee keepers are finding their nests are down by a significant percentage, 70% in some places. They don't understand why this is happening. http://www.macon.com/mld/macon/17022917.htm The high pollen is about the whether we had this past winter all across the country. It was mild and wet I think and that creates more pollen.

You should definitely talk to your chelation doc about this. I think you could be chelating the iron and sometimes with chelation you lose so many nutrients that it is hard to keep up on all of them. Keep an eye on this and talk to your chelation doc. I noticed that from taking cysteine or NAC that my zinc levels were lower because the NAC can chelate zinc. So many things can effect your suppplementation that it can seem like a never-ending process of tweaking your supplements to get them just right. This may be something that needs more fine tuning. And it could be that some supplement you take might possibly be chelating iron. That is a guess of course, but the chelation you are doing is probably the likely cause. But sometimes when you do a complex process like chelation and the necessary supplementation that goes along with it that makes it hard to know exactly why you are low in hemoglobin. If you take calcium that may interfere with the iron you are getting from meat. Who knows what the cause of this is, could be a number of things, but it is definitely something to let your chelation doc know about and keep an eye on.

Yes, you may be right about magnesium oxide absorption through the GI tract. The thing is that it is put into a product, an oil, for some reason. (Perhaps because topically it avoids the GI issues.) But I was under the impression that the oxide form somehow lasts in your body longer than the magnesium sulfate form. So if you could soak in epsom salts one day and then the next day soak in some magnesium oxide, I think the effect from the magnesium oxide would be more sustained. It may be some website claim I am remember or it might be some legit claim. But I have heard that magnesium oxide effect is supposed to last longer than magnesium sulfate. But the magnesium oxide form applied to the skin may have some benefits it is just that the oil is not something most people like having on their skin. I think she (DeFelice) said it leaves a tacky feel. But DeFelice does address this issue of recommending other ways to use epsom salts besides just soaking in it. You can find ways of mixing it in a hand cream or just make a spray for the summer time. Or try (oral) supplements that contain the magnesium and the sulfur if the sulfur is needed.

I do that too sometimes. I go over some past incident in my head like it was just yesterday. I think, and this is just a guess, that my low serotonin levels play a role in this. I find that if I am upset with something that say happened to me yesterday, I am less liking to hold on to thinking or obssesing about it if my serotonin levels are good. I can even feel that my anger almost energizes me sometimes when I am really upset. It is like I get so worked up by my anger that I can't sit still or can't relax or calm down. I know I have read that serotonin levels are associated with irritiability and agression. I think that is true. But I think it may also mean that I can hold onto my anger more so when my serotonin levels are low. And that holding on to my anger means going over it in my head like you do. I really think if my serotonin levels are good I can just let go of my anger even if that anger is from today or from 20 years ago. I do not suggest that you try to treat yourself with either tyrptophan or 5htp to increase your sertonin levels because you really need to work with a qualified doctor. But I think this is a problem that may have a solution. And it is not so uncommon I think.

I am don't know much about tics but I do know that some people find that epsom salts works better for them than some other forms of magnesium. I have read that epsom salts provides the magnesium and the right form of sulfur that some people need. Magnesium sulfate means it is sulfur in the sulfate form. The body needs to convert other forms of sulfur like sulfites (added to french fries, salads, wine, etc.) into sulfates. Only sulfates can be excreted by excreted by the body and that means sometimes the sulfites can build up to levels that can cause problems at some point. This process of converting sulfites into sulfates is called sulfation. Some people have a problem with sulfation and some people can have a problem absorbing the sulfur in some forms in their GI tract for some reason. That is why the epsom salts applied topically or in bath form can be useful, because the GI tract may not take up as much of that sulfur as the skin seems to be able to do. There are other products that may work like epson salts but are easier than the baths. Karen DeFelice in her book Enzymes for Autism suggests making some epsom salt solution (with water by just heating it to dissolve the salts) and either applying to the skin like that or in a hand cream or something. During the warmer months you can use a spray bottle, for example, to apply the solution to the skin and just let it evaporate. There are other products too like magnesium oil. But DeFelice says the magnesium oxide oil which may be better absorbed in terms of the magnesium can leave an oily film on the skin. But there may be ways to use epsom salts without just soaking in the bathtub. Also consider the importance that sulfur may be for your child. Usually a high histamine type is deficient in sulfur because of sulfation. You might talk to your doctor about his sulfur supplements if the epsom salts is not practical. Histadelics need to take methionine the main sulfur containing amino acid. But taurine is also a sulfur amino acid too so if your son is getting enough taurine he may be fine with his sulfur needs. Sometimes when you change one supplement it can require you to adjust other supplements because they all work together. But epsom salts is not just magnesium but also provides sulfur which is important to some people.

"Thanks for the info I'll be doing alot of reading today have to find out what Hydroxymethylglutarate, Xanthurenate, Vanilmandalate are... just to name a few. If I wasn't dyslexic already I would be after reading this report." The Xanthurenate is an indication that he has a b6 deficiency. Usually this is called xanthurenic acid or XA. But it is a metabolite of tryptophan. This would show up in a urine test. I tried the website metamatrix.com and they have a search feature on the home page (upper right corner) which you can use to see what some of those terms mean or are related to. Of course some of the explanations or search results may not be that easy to understand too, but it may help you understand what these substances relate to. The hydroxymethylglutarate or HMG has something to do with cholesterol according to a search on metamatrix.com. But I do wonder if it is not related to the supplement alpha ketoglutarate which is a carbohydrate in the krebs cycle.

I find I will use tryptophan instead of 5-htp simply because of the dose that they each come in. 5-htp comes in 60 mg. where as tryptophan comes in 500 mg. Most amino acids come in 500 mg. doses. So I have no idea what 60 mg. of 5-htp would be equal to in tryptophan. It is just a logistic issue for me to take one supplement in the dose that works best for my needs Irena, you seem to have a similar problem with SAMe vs. methionine. I think you should try maybe the 200 mg. dose which you could easily increase to 400 mg. if you need to. The 100 mg. dose might be too many capsules if you had to increase the dose. I have no idea how SAMe dose relates to methionine dose. But I know that in the beginning SAMe can be more effective. Just try to recognize if the dose is enough or too much. Usually if it is not enough it may wear off sooner than other supplements will. I might not think that in the beginning too much may be the problem, but that is always possible. Start with 200 mg. dose and gradually work that up to the 400 mg. Always wait a week at one dose before increasing to the next level. Some amino acids I take I take in a dose of several grams, but most amino acids I take I take in 1 gram dose (several times a day). If you keep the bulk of the amino acids in the same dosage you should be OK I think. That means one amino acid is not getting too high vs. the others. But some aminios will need to be given special consideration. Those amino acids you will have to use a different dose. Methionine for a histadelic is probably an amino that needs to be in a different dose than the others. And the dose of methionine may have to be adjusted from time to time. And tryptophan because it needs to be taken separate from the others, especially DLPA or tyrosine might be looked at as a special case too. Wikipedia says that grapefruit seed extract interferes with some enzyme in the GI tract or something. "Grapefruit can have a number of interactions with certain drugs, increasing the potency of many compounds. Grapefruit has components that inhibit the production of a particular enzyme in the intestine.[34] Thus, it is this effect that increases the rate of absorption of several drugs.[35]" I think you might be cautious to use that stuff away from most of the other supplements, if that is possible. Taking the magnesium with calcium and zinc at night is fine. Those minerals will be fine taken together. I personally don't take much calcium. If the body is not able to process the calcium properly I think you can get calcifications, which in some parts of the body can cause problems like cancer. I also think that too much calcium has been reported to contribute to depression. Too much calcium can cause some problems. BUT, histadelics need calcium. So I think in this case calcium is needed. If you give him the aminos on an empty stomach that should work, and I think they should work if you give them with food. But if the amino acid doses are too low than you may not get the same bang for your buck if you give them with food. You do have to figure out logistics of how to take all those supplements in the best possible way. So sometimes you may have to break a rule or make an exception. Don't sweat so much about breaking the rules when it comes to getting all the supplements in the best possible method. Just juggle the supplements the best you can to make them work. And sometimes you find out that you don't have to adhere to every single rule you may learn about when it comes to supplements.

Faith, I think the simple answer is that the folinic acid makes sense along with the b-12 shots. Most times when supplementing b12 the doctor will also recommend folic acid. The folinic acid is just making sure that your son has enough folic acid. This site does explain something about treating a b12 deficiency. It says that folinic acid should be introduced after the 5th week of trial. 12. Folinic acid should be added after the first 5-week clinical trial but not at the same time as methyl-B12. It should be added alone and its dose should start low and then be incrementally increased to see how it is tolerated. From my research, approximately 20% of children become hyper and/or cannot sleep when folinic acid is added. http://www.tacanow.com/Methyl_B12_Treatments.htm I would watch for these concerns, hyper or cannot sleep. If this is not what is happening than I think what you are doing should be fine. I think that advice is saying that with the b12 injections you have to make sure there is enough folic acid too. In another post you asked about manganese. I have read that too much manganese is not good. I think that was my experience too. If I take 50 mg. of manganese it does not get absorbed I think because it seems to cause GI upset for me. But I would also have some problem with one part of my gum when I supplemented too much manganese. You indicate a dose that is 12 mg. which is what the RDI is. I don't think that dose should be a problem. But I do not recommend taking manganese in a dose that is higher than about 12 mg or 15 mg per day. If I take 12 mg. o fmanganese I don't have a problem with that dose. I think manganese is one mineral that has to be in the right dose. I would guess that your son needs the b12 injections because he has a b12 defeciency and low histamine levels. I have low histamine levels and the nutrients that work for histapenia are folic acid, b12 and nicotinic acid. But that is just a guess about the low histamine. I think if your son had high histamine levels than the b12 injections might possibly make him worse. I think if you watch him after the folinic acid - the first dose especially - then you should get a sense if he has a problem with folic acid or high histamine levels. You said something seemed to make him worse. What else is he taking?

I suspect your son is a histadelic, Chemar, and that is why he has trouble with the b complex or the naicin or folic acid separately. B12 can cause problems for some histadelics but not all. Faith, I want to review your question further before I give you an answer. Irena, that is true about tryptophan but if your son is taking any form of DLPA than it is best to take that early in the day. I take the tryptophan at night for that reason and that reason alone (because the DLPA has to be taken earlier in the day and not late at night). The tryptophan will do the same, I think, whatever time of the day you take it. Of course if you wanted to try it earlier in the day, you could but just not with the DLPA.

Use SAMe in the beginning. I think it may work better. At some point you may look around for methionine and try that. But SAMe is fine early on. SAMe can work better than methionine in the beginning of supplementing. You can give him the BCAA. I don't think that is a problem. I take BCAA and find it is helps mostly with my musclulature (fatigue and muscle weakness) and not so much for my brain chemistry. I don't think it should be a problem. Most amino acids taste fine. If you open up the tryptophan that should work, but it may be hard to get the dose exactly. But that should not be a problem. I would give him the tryptophan at night so it does not interfere with the phenlyalanine (DLPA). I wouldn't worry about the DLPA or phenlyalanine in that amino acid blend. It is a small amount and mixed with other amino acid. Just use that amino blend during the day (NOT near bedtime) and don't give it to him when he takes the tryptophan. Giving him 3 or 4 capsules should not be a problem since it is a blend of other amino acids with the DLPA. Even four capsules would mean a total of 300 mg. of DLPA mixed with other amino acids. That doesn't sound too high to me. I think you could have a problem if you took one amino acid and gave him high doses for a long time. One amino acid by itself can cause other amino acids levels to seem low relatively speaking. What you are giving him is BCAA which is a blend of a couple of amino acids and then the amino acid blend with DLPA. Those two blends I would assume do not have any one amino acid in large doses, so being balanced they should not cause any serious problems. And the low tryrptohan dose should not be a problem. I do find that the DLPA and tryptophan I take have to balance each other. If I increase the dose of one of those amino acids then other one seems too low after that. There is a balance needed between serotonin (tryptpophan) levels and dopamine (DLPA) levels. So these two need to be balanced with one other. This is more of a problem in the beginning of supplementing. These two amino acids are the ones you have to be careful with because they do seem to work against and balance each other. Those doses of DLPA and tryptophan seem to be reasonable amounts to me.

I would question that advice. For one thing that taurine seems wrong to me. Taurine is conditionally essential. I have a B6 dependency so must take taurine. My body may not be able to convert methionine into cysteine, and then cysteine into taurine because b6 is needed for this conversion. You have p-5-p but no tuarine. That seems like the person giving you this advice is missing something pretty basic in my opinion. Taurine is essential when you supplement amino acids. It has a special role in brain chemistry. It either balances all neurotransmitters or just the inhibitory ones. You asked a while ago and said that he was taking mg. taurate and a taurine supplement of 500 mg. I think the high taurine might be explained by the 500 mg. of taurine. But that is the problem with doing that test and taking supplements. I think you got results that are not that accurate because of that taurine supplement. Your doc may be trying to second guess the taurine because of the possibly skewed results. Now if he takes the methionine and tests again, checking for the taurine that might make sense. But I don't think that is what you are doing. I have read that you need to do a two stage method of supplementing amino acids. You supplement the ones that raise the inhibitory neurotransmitters first. This help calm down the brain and reduce anxiety. When these inhibitory neuros are good than you can introduce the aminos that increase the excitotory neuros, like phenylalanine. Some people will experience a problem when supplementing DLPA or tyrosine such as agitation or anger problems. I think that is an indication that the inhibitory neuros are not at good levels. It is important to make sure that there is a balance of the excitoroty neuros with the inhibitory neuros otherwise the person can feel off or something. The only ones that I know of that need to be taken separately are tryptophan and DLPA. I take both of these. I take the DLPA with breakfast and lunch and sometimes in the afternoon, but never at night. And I only take the tryptophan at night close to bedtime. These two are the only ones I think you need to be careful. If I increase the dose of DLPA it seems to lower my serotonin levels. That is how dopamine and serotonin work, they balance each other. So when you adjust the dose of one you may have to adjust the dose of the other. These two are the trickiest to take. The others are not so much an issue I think. But I have a book at home "the healing nutrients within" and it has a chart to show what amino acids complement other ones and what ones work against some of the others. I always check this list before changing any combo. I think anyone using amino acids should have a list like this to refer to.

You can try searching for the term methyl folate trap. This happens with a b-12 deficiency. I think this is what you are referring to. I know I have read that one nutrient gets trapped and may appear high in tests, but that is really an indication that the body is not converting that nutrient or not donating the methyl donor as it should be. It is a complex subject and even I get confused with some of this stuff sometimes. But faulty methylation can be corrected with the right nutrients. Severe methylation problems would indicate either high or low histamine levels. There are only two possible groups of nutrients that are needed. Have you tried to test your childs histamine levels yourself with nicotinic acid. I can explain how to do this test if you are interested.

I take NAC and do think that what they say about it is true: it gives up its sulfur molecule more readily than the other suflur containing amino acids. I can always tell when I have taken more NAC than I normally do. I feel as though my body is saturated with sulfur. This effects different things like causes loose stools and the foulest smelling flatulence that smells like rotten eggs. But sulfur is good for you. I don't think that methionine may have exactly the same impact as NAC, but that is a guess from my personal experience. Of course if you are treating someone with tourettes you are probably also supplementing taurine. Taurine can be converted into cysteine. I can take high doses of tuarine and not feel like my body is saturated with sulfur. Taurine does not give up the sulfur the same as NAC. I have read about some supplements making candida worse. But I think that the sulfur from NAC and from ALA are more potent (more readily available) than the sulfur you are getting from the other amino acids. I notice differences when I take the NAC and the ALA that I don't notice from the high doses of taurine that I take. One thing to consider instead of DLPA is mucuna. I take both DLPA and mucuna for my low dopamine levels. This herb does help with dopamine levels but I find that it doesn't have the same exact action as DLPA. DLPA has the effect of lowering my serotonin levels. That is how dopamine and serotonin work they need to be balanced against each other. I take the mucuna and it helps, I can feel something change in my brain when I take it on an empty stomach, but mucuna does not effect my serotonin levels for some reason. So mucuna might be another option instead of the DLPA. But I think you need to supplement these under medical supervision. There is a method of supplementing the aminos that increase the inhibitory neuros first. This makes sure you basically get those balanced first. That is why sometimes people may have the experience of feeling agitated from taking tyrosine; it is increasing the excitotory neuros and not enough of the inhibitory ones are increasing. You need to know how to balance these amino acids properly. I agree that the vitamin shoppe is a good source for nutritional supplements, and their store brands are usually cheaper like Chemar said. My understanding is that someone who benefits from SAMe probably should not be taking something like DLPA or phenylalanine. SAMe means high histamine levels, and usually histadelics don't have low dopamine levels but may have low NE (norepenephrine) levels. The mucuna, I think would help with the NE and E levels because the are a metabolite of dopamine. BCAA is good for those with chronic health problems. I think the BCAA helped with my muscle weakness and my fatigue somewhat. If you are supplementing all of these amino acids you really need the proper medical supervision. IF you miss one essential and needed amino acid you could develop some new symptoms.