Vitamin B Complex

[Guest jc]

hi everyone!

I am currently giving my 11 year old son (53+kg) Vit B complex, together with lecithin, calcium/magnesium and multivits n minerals n antioxidents and Vit E for his TS tics.

 

Previously he was on haldol but recently weaned off successfully. Now he is totally on health supplements.

 

I understand that high doses of a certain B group is toxic to liver (I cant exactly remember which one), and my son is currently taking all Vit B complex in 50mg each for 200mg daily. Meaning 2 capsules (50mg) each after lunch and dinner.

 

Can some parent out there who is also giving their child Vit B Complex kindly advise me if this dosage is safe for my son. He weighs over 53kg.

 

Thanks in advance.

jc

[Claire]

jc,

 

Could you be more clear...50 mg of each B vitamin, e.g. 50 mg of B3, 50 mg of B6...

 

Then 2x daily, so the daily total is: 100 mg B3, 100 mg B6...?

 

I wish you the BEST moving forward. Hope you let us know how he is doing.

 

Claire

[Caz]

Just a query, do you find giving the b vitamins after dinner keeps your child awake? I found it made my kid a bit wired after dinner, now I only give in am, and use slow release ones so they last through the day. I actually only give one "50mg" b complex and that seemed ok.

(I have since found they are synthetic anyway, so am looking for another brand now. )

 

Are you seeing a doctor/naturopath or are you doing it yourself? I would think 200mg of b's is a bit much, but then if you know he has a deficiency or has pyroluria then high dose b's, exp b6 are ok.

 

Caz

[Guest Guest]

HI

 

Thanks for your response. I actually read from a website regarding supplements and herbs that will help relieve tics, so i copies it down in a MS Word format. I cant recall which website this article was from - quite long ago..

 

Supplements and herbs

The Minerals magnesium and potassium are vital for neuromuscular function and muscle control. A deficiency causes tics, trembling or cramping. The B vitamins help calm the nervous system, reducing symptoms of trembling brought on by stress. Vitamins B12, B6 and niacinamide are particularly important. Tics and tremors have been stopped with vitamin B6 and magnesium supplements combined with a healthy diet The B vitamins are best taken together to prevent any imbalances. Niacinamide and vitamin B6 are available in many B-complex combinations. However, vitamin B12 is often poorly absorbed through the intestinal tract and should be taken in a sublingual form.

Calcium is also important for muscle control and proves helpful when taken with the above vitamins and minerals. Evening primrose oil is also beneficial for alleviating all kinds of tremors. The essential fatty acids in evening primrose oil are vital for normal nervous system function.

Herbs are virtually free of side-effects and help make living with Tourette's syndrome more bearable.

 Take chamomile, hops, lady's slipper, passion flower, skullcap, wood betony, St. John's wort or valerian in tea, capsule or tincture form. These herbs provide vitamins and minerals, and relax muscles and nerves. For tea, add 1 cup of boiling water to 1 tsp. of herbs; steep for fifteen minutes; strain and drink three times daily. For tinctures, add 20 drops of extract to a glass of water daily.

How much to take

 Magnesium, 500 mg

 Vitamin B complex, 100 mg twice daily or pyridoxal-5-phosphate, 50 mg daily

 Vitamin B12 sublingual tablet, 100 mcg

 Calcium, 1,000 mg

 Evening primrose oil, two 500 mg tablets three times daily

 Niacin, 1,000 mg

 

 

The breakdown of the Vit B complex ithat i give to my son on a daily basis is as follow:

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Vitamin B-1 (as Thiamin Mononitrate) 50 mg

Riboflavin (Vitamin B-2) 50 mg

Niacin (as Niacinamide) 50 mg

Vitamin B-6 (as Pyridoxine Hydrochloride) 50 mg

Folic Acid 400 mcg

Vitamin B-12 (as Cyanocobalamin) 50 mcg

Biotin 50 mcg

Pantothenic Acid (as Calcium d-Pantothenate) 50 mg

Choline Bitartrate 50 mg **

Inositol 50 mg **

para-Aminobenzoic Acid (PABA) 50 mg **

 

Other Ingredients: Gelatin, Mono and Diglycerides, Whole Brown Rice Powder (Oryza sativa), Brewer's Yeast, Lecithin, Alfalfa Leaf Powder (Medicago sativa), Watercress Herb (Nasturtium officinale), Parsley Herb Powder (Petroselinum sativum)

No Sugar, No Starch, No Artificial Colors, No Artificial Flavors, Sodium Free, No Wheat, No Gluten, No Corn, No Dairy------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

All the above ingredient come in a capsule. So i am giving two capsules after lunch, and two capsules after dinner. This will make up to 200mg of each Bs. Also 4 times for other stuff like PABA, inositol etc..

 

I understand the B vitamins are water soluble so I thought this should be ok. By the way, my son doesnt seem to have any side-effects after taking these capsules.

 

Hi Claire - I am so happy that my son is finally off Haldol after 6 months! I have decided to totally stop his medication as I recently noticed tics that resemble alot like TD (tardiv) rather than TS (like facial twitches and pulling his lips etc). Suspecting that this could be the side effects of long term consumption of haldol, we tried to slowly wean him off the drug. Now my son is so much better - his facial tics were much much lessen (only once in a long while a day as compared to few mins apart), he doesnt jerk his feet when lying on the bed anymore and he doesnt always look around while walking on the streets!

 

I am not sure if this could be the waning period but I told myself that unless the tics are back severe, my son will not start the drug again.

 

Warmest Regards

jc

[Chemar]

Hi jc

 

congrats on having him off the Haldol!!

 

as to the B vits, this really is something to check with a qualified person, as daily requirements really do depend on a number of factors, with age and weight being one.

 

Here is the link to Bonnie Grimaldi's ORIGINAL plan which outlines the amounts of B's that she recommended. You can also click thru from there to her current website and then into Product Info to see how much of the Bs she has in her TSPlus formula

 

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/5207/ts_ma...bonnie_sup.html

 

 

We found when my son was on a high B complex that he had digestive side effects(constipation) and so we stopped B.CO and instead give individual B's where needed over and above that in his multivit

 

You must be soooooooo relieved to have your son "back" from the twilight zone that Haldol produces! I remember our joy when we saw that dulled look disappear from my son's eyes.

[Claire]

That is a lot more B's than I would be comfortable with. We do one 25 mg B complex a day, which has 400 mcg folic acid. You are way over the folic acid levels recommended. We did a vitamin deficiency blood test (www.spectracell.com) and customized our program. But even with a folic acid deficiency, we didn't go over 800 mcg/day. I hope you are doing the sublingual B12 with the folic acid--it can be dangerous otherwise. (google B12 + folic acid--never take a posters word for it of course!). Also, the NIH recommends no more than 100 mg B6/day. As Chemar mentioned, known pyroluria might up this need. (www.pyroluriatesting.com).

 

Based on our known deficiencies/issues, we add pantothenic acid and B6.

 

FYI, most of the regulars on this site do some sort of daily vitamin supplementation for their children.

 

We do eve primrose oil but also fish oil (some do flax seed oil) for Omega 3's.

Also, I would add zinc to the list at 25 mg/day. We do 250 mg mag/500 mg calcium, but others do more, and it depends on what calcium your child already gets in their diet. For a while we did more calcium--but there was a known deficiency.

 

Both tests I mentioned don't need a doctor's signature. I wouldn't do the pyroluria test unless he had the symptoms (google pyroluria + symptoms).

 

This site has a ton on vitamins and other support for tics. Here is one summary thread...

http://www.latitudes.org/forums/index.php?...p?showtopic=798

 

Plus Chemar's vitamins and treatments that worked for her son

http://www.latitudes.org/forums/index.php?...p?showtopic=687

 

If you go through the archives, you will see posters such as efgh, Heather, Ausclare, Ronnas, Chemar, Andy, Jeff, Frank Smith post things that worked for our children. Good to compare notes. Vitamins can be an important part of the program, but most of us required other methods--at least at the beginning.

 

This is definitely a process, and this site is a good support network.

 

Claire

[Guest Jean]

Hi JC,

 

Good to hear from you again. I'm so happy for your son. I've been very busy lately at both work and home. Just want to drop a quick note here to pass my regards to you.

 

Take care,

 

Jean

[Guest jc]

Hi everyone!

 

Yep Cheri, I was so so so happy when my son is finally off haldol. Now he is so much more cheerful and bubbly like he used to be.. I went thru the link you posted and gosh.. Thanks to all your advice!

 

Yes Claire, today I am going down to 100mg of Vit Bs for my son and see how he goes. I am going to read your notes and links again and check around if there's anywhere here that does vitamin deficiency blood test. Thanks a million!

 

Caz - i have to confess i didnt see a doctor for this. Actually copied from a parent who has very good results with the high Vit Bs.. All along thought that Vit Bs are safe because water soluble...

 

Hi Jean - long time no hear from u too! Do keep in touch.

 

Warmest Regards

jc

[Claire]

jc,

 

If you call Spectracell, they will give you the name of a lab in your area that can draw blood and mail it out of state to their location. Again, no doctor's signature. Come to think of it, my doctor has never signed it, but I always got reimbursed by insurance. However, I think they mailed him the results and he sent them to me (e.g. I put his name on their).

 

I thought the same thing about B's being water soluble. Actually we were doing 500 mg of pantothenic acid, but I just felt more comfortable with a doctor watching.

 

Question: Does your child remember their dreams almost nightly? EDITED 11-9 DUE TO CONFUSION: NOT remembering a dream in the morning can be a sign of low B6 (via pyroluria). Pfeiffer claims they 'should' remember one dream every morning--of course you must ask in the morning since the measurement is for short-term memory. I figure 4/5 nights or something is good enough though...

 

The dreams aren't what is key, it is that it serves as an indicator of B6, and the impact that short-term memory issues may have on learning at school.

 

Recently I read that adrenal stress issues can also impact poor dream recall.

 

Claire

[Guest Jean]

Hi Claire,

 

Interesting. My son used to remember his dream so well (especially nightmare), but it doesn't seem to be a case any more. I always remember my dreams so well. Does it mean that I have low B6?

 

Thanks!

 

Jean

[Guest jc]

Thanks Claire for the info.

 

Strange, but my two sons never told me about their dreams before...hopefully that means they are ok with B6.

 

Maybe i will just casually chat (check) with them to find out.

 

jc

[Claire]

Jean and jc,

 

Apparently I worded my post VERY poorly. I just edited it to fix this.

 

NOT remembering a dream when they wake up each morning is one symptom of pyroluria. This means low B6. This of course isn't 100%, but the measure of enough B6 according to Pfeiffer is when they start remembering their dreams again. The B6 is to be increased gradually and P5P is less toxic, so some combo of the two is ideal.

 

Yes, asking casually shows interest, and is the source of WONDERFUL morning conversations, a nice ritual. Most people won't remember by day's end, so just ask in the morning. Apparently, it relates to short term memory and thus can impact school if the short term memory is low due to B6 deficiency.

 

Of course, this is just a sign--if they aren't remembering their dreams mostly daily, I would do the pyroluria test.

 

www.pyroluriatesting.com

 

 

Claire

[tygrus]

I know this is probably too late for the original poster, but others may find the discussion above and find my comments of value.

I had very high vitamin B6 in a blood test (toxicity with levels 3x normal limit). I think the B multivitamins with 25mg B6 or more was too high for me especially when combining other supplements which had extra B6 I didn't know about (others may handle it better). I started getting tingling skin, sharp pains and/or restless legs, headaches. High B6 gets stored in muscles and uses up a few other Vitamin B's and other minerals to process/change and excrete. If a person wants to take vitamins long term (more than a month) then I would recommend atleast 1 blood test with a GP (family doctor). OTC (non-prescription) products can do more harm than you expect. I’m now taking a multi with less ingredients, made by a compounding chemist according to the doctor’s prescription; no B6 while I wait for it to come down. Will be re-tested later to check the vitamins&minerals of interest. No, I didn't have Tourette Syndrome, but I think a B6 warning should be given for everyone's consideration.