New member - questions re tics and blinking

[Loufrank]

Hi,

 

I am new to this forum and thought I would come on here to discuss my concerns about my son who is 2.5 years old.

 

I just wanted to say firstly that regarding his symptoms I have noticed some references to autism/aspergers/ADHD and when I looked more into these they mentioned a few things that he also does:

 

Massively huge vocabulary for a 2 year old, that people comment on all the time.

Seems to be very, very clever and really inquisitive, wants to know the ins and outs of everything.

Has an excellent memory and imagination.

Obsessions with strange things - hairdryers, fans, hoovers and generally anything electrical that switches on (would choose to play with any of these things over toys if given the choice).

Inability to sit still, even when concentrating on something, TV, book, dinner etc - has to be fidgeting all the time.

Not really interested in food, would sooner be doing anything else other than eating.

 

But on the flip side of the things mentioned - and I don't know whether its enough to discount them, but he is very, very good natured, very sweet and polite, extremely loving, very rarely bad-temprered, and has never ever been spiteful to anyone. He's perfectly able to connect and react to people, and is perfectly able to make eye contact and stay focused when you are speaking with him and just generally is the most sweetest child I have ever known .

 

Also, as bit of background, my husband and his brother both had a squint as children, so I recently had my son's vision and eyes checked by a private consultant opthamologist (as the good old NHS wouldn't entertain me), and everything was fine, extremely good vision etc.

 

*********************************

 

So, this all started about 3 weeks ago now...

 

My first concern was that he started to "blink" a lot, really rapid, big blinks and scrunching his eyes up. The first night it happened I thought he was just tired as it started about 6pm and carried on intermittently until he went to bed. The next week or so it happened predominantly whilst he was watching the TV, but sometimes he could watch the TV with no blinking at all.

 

Then I noticed on one or two evenings that it wasn't just the TV, occasionally the blinking would start at dinnertime-ish regardless of what he was doing, and carry on until he went to sleep. And other times he would do when travelling in the car as well.

 

Now, I remember him doing this blinking thing for 2 days last August, but ONLY when he was watching TV - I completely stopped all TV for the 2 days, gave him a couple of early nights and the blinking stopped - so I didn't think anymore about it. He also did it one afternoon, some time between August and now, blinked loads and loads for a few hours (not TV related) and then stopped.

 

I've also taken more notice lately of the fact that he also twitches/jerks when he is asleep, mainly his hands and feet, but sometimes more. As far as I can remember he has always twitched and spasmed during naps, or its certainly been for a good few months, as I can't remember him ever not doing it, but even my mum has started to comment on how much he twitches when he's asleep, and sometimes its like the jerks actually disturb him as he will jerk and then shift himself into another position.

 

This is mainly noticeable during his daytime nap (approx 1-2 hours) and if he does do it he when he falls asleep at night, it tends to stop by the time he starts snoring. But I've also noticed this week - just through waking up before him - that he starts jerking and twitching well before he wakes up. We always thought he was a fidget in bed, but after watching him I think that the twitching actually starts him off fidgeting and moving around into different positions. I don't know if he does it all night long, as I am not watching him, but I do know that *some* mornings I can go into his room at 6am and he's in exactly the same position as I left him at 8pm, covers still tucked in and everything, so the fidgeting must be pretty intermittent.

 

He also sometimes starts talking, singing and trying to get out of bed before he actually opens his eyes. Almost like his brain has woken up before his body has. He wakes up "ready to go" like someone has flicked a switch on, and he's like that until he naps again at midday.

 

He is a fairly good sleeper and always seems rested when he wakes up. He generally goes to bed about 8pm and comes into our bed at some point during the night (calling for mummy), usually around 4am, and then sleeps til approx 7-8am.

 

So I googled some combinations of things regarding jerking/twitching during sleep and excessive blinking, and it bought up a variety of reasons, including a squint, vision problems (which I know from the eye test he doesn't have), habit/tics, mini-seizures etc. Some people noticed it more with really active children (which he definitely is) and the doctors had told them that it was fine and normal.

 

The thing that concerned me was whether the blinking and the sleep twitching/jerking could be connected and whether it could be related to something more serious, like seizures etc.

 

I spoke to my friend who has a 4 year old who exhibits very similar behaviour (but he was also a VERY bad sleeper) but they have just diagnosed him as being overly bright for his age and that his brain just isn't wearing itself out enough (I'm sure there is a more technical term!).

 

Anyhow, I took my son off to the GP on Wednesday who more or less told me that I was a mad, over-paranoid mother and that everything he was doing was perfectly normal, no cause for concern at all (which is easy to say when you haven't sat and watched your son blink solidly for 3 hours), and the only thing he could suggest was to get his eyes tested again if I was that concerned.

 

So I re-booked for the opthamologist and took him up there on Friday - good news, eyes were fine - but looking out of the window during the train journey started the blinking off again, and it got so intense that he started to nod his head as he was doing it, and I'm sure I also noticed his legs jerk together a few times as well. The weird thing is, if he stopped looking out of the window and focused on a book or our faces, then the blinking would stop instantly, until he looked out the window again - so I'm definitely thinking that watching things in motion is sometimes a trigger for the blinking (but again, not always, as it sometimes happens regardless of what he is doing).

 

Later that day he did it on and off while travelling in the car, and at one point it seemed like he had gone into a trance with the blinking, only for about 5 seconds, and then just snapped out of it and went back to normal. And even later that evening we went out for dinner and he didn't blink or twitch one single time.

 

So all of this has left me really confused and with lots of questions...

 

Should I go back to the doctor and voice my concerns about whether it could be seizures?

Could a tic be that intermittent? As it really seems like he is either having a twitchy day, or he's not - can a tic be that on and off?

Sometimes when he's blinking at the TV, if he is sitting with me I can feel that he is generally a bit twitchy, and times when he is not blinking the rest of his body feels more relaxed.

 

I've also been reading with some interest the threads on here about magnesium deficiency. I've been racking my brains trying to think whether I have changed anything in his diet, and yesterday it hit me that about 6 weeks (on the advice of his HV) I took him off the Cow & Gate Growing Up Milk and put him on to regular cows milk. I am admittedly rubbish with nutrition, and I don't know whether cow's milk contains magnesium at all, but I checked the Cow & Gate bottles yesterday, and they contain a whopping 7g of magnesium per 100ml, and he was generally having a 500ml bottle every day up until 6 weeks ago, so I'm now wondering whether that could be the cause of everything I'm seeing, as he is missing out on 35g of magnusium every day, through milk alone.

 

Anyway, well done if you have gotten this far, I didn't mean it to turn into an essay and I really do need to get on with my work now ... but I would be really grateful for your thoughts on any of the above.

[Chemar]

Hi and welcome

 

the first thing that strikes me is the possibility of photosensitive induced eye "tics" or blinking as even a train journey has that flicker effect as the light and lotion interact. If you search "screens" under user name Claire, you should find a lot of info on it

Have you noticed any other sensory issues ie hypersensitive to textures of clothing, strong smells, loud or very high or low frequency sounds.

 

Perhaps I missed it in your post, but have you had your child checked for any possible seizure activity?

 

usually most people with Tourette Syndrome do *not* tic in their sleep. In fact it is the one time when for many it is the only time of the day when their tics stop.

 

so your child ticcing notably during sleep again makes me wonder if you are seeing something else beyond possible TS or transient tics

 

is there any family history of tics or Tourette Syndrome? OCD?

 

the other symptoms as you noted can be related to the autism/aspergers spectrum, as well as Tourette Syndrome, or might be separate diagnoses. It isnt unusual for kids with neurological issues to have more than one

 

those were just some initial thoughts while reading your post

 

there are many and diverse things that can trigger tics, from infections (eg strep) to food allergies, so there is lots of ground for you to cover. But just start a step at a time so you dont get overwhelmed and hopefully you will soon have answers and effective treatment for whatever is causing what you are noticing with your son

[dut]

Hi.. I usually hang out on the PANDAS forum part of this site (I don't want to be one of those mum's who thinks every child has what they're child has and labels everything accordingly!) but has your son been ill recently. Just wanted to chuck the idea of PANDAS out there as I believe the chorieform movements that are sometimes seen in PANDAS kids, will continue while they are asleep.

 

Right, done.. sorry, I'll go lurk somehwere else. Hope you sort it all out. (PS we're fromthe uK and know the rubbishy repsonse you can get from the NHS!!)

[Loufrank]

Hi.. I usually hang out on the PANDAS forum part of this site (I don't want to be one of those mum's who thinks every child has what they're child has and labels everything accordingly!) but has your son been ill recently. Just wanted to chuck the idea of PANDAS out there as I believe the chorieform movements that are sometimes seen in PANDAS kids, will continue while they are asleep.

 

Right, done.. sorry, I'll go lurk somehwere else. Hope you sort it all out. (PS we're fromthe uK and know the rubbishy repsonse you can get from the NHS!!)

 

Forgive my ignorance, but what is PANDAS please?

 

Thanks.

[Chemar]

Forgive my ignorance, but what is PANDAS please?

 

Thanks.

 

PANDAS = Pediatric Autoimmune Neuropsychiatric Disorders Associated with Streptooccus

PITAND = Pediatirc Infection Triggered Autoimmune Neuropsychiatric Disorders

we have a forum here for PANDAS & PITAND

http://www.latitudes.org/forums/index.php?showforum=17

 

 

when I mentioned

there are many and diverse things that can trigger tics, from infections (eg strep) to food allergies

I was referring to that possibility

 

also, with you introducing cows milk...you may want to check for dairy allergy, a cause of tics for some

[dut]

Hi again.. hoped you wouldn't ask that!! I'll point you at what other folks have said 'cos I'll only confuse you.

 

I'll stick some links in to the PANDAS forum. They've got a good fact sheet

 

http://www.latitudes.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=6265

 

 

and FAQ too

 

http://www.latitudes.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=6266

 

 

and link to a good summary article

 

http://www.latitudes.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=3980

 

 

Some other good sites are the PANDAS network (http://www.pandasnetwork.org) and the PANDAS resource network (www.pandasresourcenetwork.com) and a site run by a Dr Trifilletti (www.pandas.yuku.com).

 

I have a dd6 with a PANDAS dx and a ds2 with a possible PANDAS dx. It is so hard trying to work out what is within the wide remit of normal behaviour for a 2 year old and what isn't . Good luck. You'll get lots of good info on these forums, they've been a life saver for me both knowledge and support wise.

 

:-)

[ShannonOtown]

My son has a blinking tic. I too had noticed he was jerking his leg a lot in his sleep and brought this subject up to his Neurologist. She said it could be just the normal relaxation your body goes through... you know, when you jump in your sleep and wakes you or just dreaming movements. But she said you want to be careful, b/c children can have seizures in their sleep. She adviced me to record him sleeping to see if there was a patter, cycle, or routine to his movements. I watched my son and he was fine, but you might want to record his sleep and take it to a neurologist who has more experience. He's young, so he probable can sleep with a light on...

[Loufrank]

Thanks for all your helpful replies and suggestions, and I'll definitely look into the light sensitivity thing as a starting point.

 

What one of you said is absolutely spot on, it is SO difficult to try and fathom what is normal behaviour for a 2 year old, and what actually needs attention and checking.

 

I'm going to take him back to my GP on Thursday (one of the friendlier ones) to tell them my concerns once again, and ask whether he can be referred, just to rule out any seizure activity. Although that in itself scares the ###### out of me... Does anyone know what tests they will actually do? I feel really bad for putting him through anything that will upset him as he was freaked out enough by the eye exam

 

Also, re the PANDAS thing - he hasn't been ill recently, apart from the odd grotty cough and cold (stupid British weather!). At the beginning of last year (2009) he did go through a bad time with an ear infection, and later on a bit of reoccuring balanitis - during those few months he had countless rounds of antibiotics, but that was months ago, and he's been well and healthy between then and now.

 

At the mention of strep though - and this might be something completely different - but I tested positive for Group B Strep when I was pregnant, and as I result I had to have antibiotics during labour, and my son had to have them afterwards, but they were given as a routine precautionary measure, he was never actually ill with anything as a result.

 

I'll film him sleeping in the meantime, and let you know how I get on with the GP on Thursday...

[faith]

loufrank, hello,

since your boy is very young, fortunately (or unfortunately)...you are really kind of at the very beginning here and there are lots of avenues to look into.

 

Again, since so young, the blinking could definitely be just a transient thing that will come and go. You'll probably have to kind of go down the checklist and check out different things that may be at play here, as you are doing, i.e. siezures, allergies, look at the correlation to illness (PANDAS). did he hve any sore throat with the coughing?

 

has your boy had any recent vaccinations? this has seemed to be a possible trigger for some ticcing in many of our kids here.

 

Does your boy seem to have any other issues besides the blinking? hard to gauge this in a two year old, but anything you find out of place?

 

thanks,

Faith