Need refresher on augmentin/strep

[MichaelTampa]

Hi there,

 

After 14 days on biaxin based on the theory of things looking a bit more mycoplasma pneumonia related (as opposed to strep), I had two periods of really nice relief of less anxious and happier and brain area did feel less pressure. One period lasted a couple hours, and ended when I got a fluorescent light and wireless exposure. The other began after NAET treatment and ended an hour later while still in traffic.

 

Anyway, I am being advised now to try augmentin 875mg, presumably in case it is strep.

 

1. I do want to take the two really nice periods, and other signs of general better health and less supplements needed, that the biaxin is really helping with something, and want to take it as long as might be needed to kill all of those bad guys, so to speak. The original plan was that if great relief was found, to take it for a full month. Does a full month sound like the right time to be sure we've got it all? Is that a typical time period (for those not just using prophalactic long-term)?

 

2. Could someone remind me on the augmentin, the internet says it has amoxicillan and clavulanic acid. Is this one for strep? I remember one strep med being thought of as better because it had another ingredient that helped the strep not avoid the antibiotic part of the med, or something like that... Is this augmentin, with clavulanic acid being that other helper second part? I don't see azithromycin having any second type part, at least from what I read on the internet. I'm thinking that's the other one used for strep. Just trying to get some basic understanding of the strep drug choices, and trying to understand why this one might be chosen.

 

Thanks for your help.

 

Michael

[MomWithOCDSon]

Hi Michael --

 

I have to say that I don't know about biaxin or the treatment for adults with respect to PANDAS. We do, however, have a good bit of experience with Augmentin and our DS12 with PANDAS, so I thought I would at least post that experience for you.

 

Our son has been on both Augmentin 875 mg. and Augmentin XR 1,000 mg.; yes, all Augmentin is a combination of amoxicillin and clauvanic acid. It's my understanding that the clauvanic acid ratio in the XR is actually lower than with regular Augmentin, which is sometimes an issue for children given their weight, dosing, etc. There is also some indication that the XR is more effective with PANDAS because it is time release and stays active in the system longer. With my DS12, I can tell you that the Augmentin XR has been gentler on his system.

 

As for duration, I honestly don't know. Just based on some of the other posts here, it seems there may be some basis for a correlation between age at PANDAS onset, length of time between onset and treatment, and then duration of required treatment for cessation of symptoms. I've seen that some young children quickly diagnosed with PANDAS may be "back to themselves" with as little as a 10-day dose; but older children like my son who's onset, I believe, was at about age 6 and he went until age 12 without a PANDAS diagnosis or treatment, he's on his fourth month of Augmentin XR. In conversations with Beth Maloney about her son, Sammy's, recovery, she's advised me to let DS12's behaviors be my guide in terms of how long to continue the abx treatment. Since he is improving but still has his struggles, we're sticking with it for now . . . .

 

Good luck to you!

 

Hi there,

 

After 14 days on biaxin based on the theory of things looking a bit more mycoplasma pneumonia related (as opposed to strep), I had two periods of really nice relief of less anxious and happier and brain area did feel less pressure. One period lasted a couple hours, and ended when I got a fluorescent light and wireless exposure. The other began after NAET treatment and ended an hour later while still in traffic.

 

Anyway, I am being advised now to try augmentin 875mg, presumably in case it is strep.

 

1. I do want to take the two really nice periods, and other signs of general better health and less supplements needed, that the biaxin is really helping with something, and want to take it as long as might be needed to kill all of those bad guys, so to speak. The original plan was that if great relief was found, to take it for a full month. Does a full month sound like the right time to be sure we've got it all? Is that a typical time period (for those not just using prophalactic long-term)?

 

2. Could someone remind me on the augmentin, the internet says it has amoxicillan and clavulanic acid. Is this one for strep? I remember one strep med being thought of as better because it had another ingredient that helped the strep not avoid the antibiotic part of the med, or something like that... Is this augmentin, with clavulanic acid being that other helper second part? I don't see azithromycin having any second type part, at least from what I read on the internet. I'm thinking that's the other one used for strep. Just trying to get some basic understanding of the strep drug choices, and trying to understand why this one might be chosen.

 

Thanks for your help.

 

Michael

[jewels]

Michael

 

As on my dds augmentin instruction label,

 

Amoxicillin can sometimes be stopped from working (made inactive)

 

Clavulanic acid stops this from happening.

 

I read an article some time ago that mentioned some bacterias can mutate, especially if a full course of abx is not taken or absorbed. Then the mutated bacteria will be resistant to that strain of abx.

 

If think the acid protects the penicillin from becoming redundant. Any form of bacteria that is hard to erradicate in the body has a better chance of being treated with this abx.

 

I do hope this helps.

[thereishope]

From what I understand, Zith is often given for Mycroplasma P. Biaxin is also used for Mycro P and is a "bigger gun" for it. As for a month long use, I'd compare it to PANDAS and strep. Some kids need to be on an ab for strep for a month to see full effect.

 

As for strep....Zith and Augmentin seem to be the most successful here. Thise taking long term Augmentin, may have switched to Augmentin XR. I think the ratio is different and it is easier on the body? I am not really sure. But there' s been threads on that you can look up.

 

I have seen some on here who are both on an ab like Augmentin and an ab like Zith or Biaxin at the same time. How are you with possible yeast overgrowth? I think you had issues with that in the past, correct?

 

As for overall mental health, tics getting better, and PANDAS symptoms improving, that would take longer than what it takes for any infection to erradicate. Once the infection is gone, is when the healing can finally begin.

[MichaelTampa]

Thank you all for your input here.

 

I met with my local prescribing doctor today (different person than the PANDAS advisor we're using), and we decided to go ahead and finish the 28 days. He says 3-4 weeks is generally the time he hears being used for antibiotics, to make sure they've really taken care of something. This is general information and not at all specific to PANDAS. So, given this, and that I really have seen some improvement, and exactly the concern jewels mentions (not wanting to leave just a few bacteria left and let them grow back to tougher/meaner ones), we are going to finish the 28 days, then reassess, and by then lyme test results will be in to add more information.

 

He also took a biopsy today of something on my chest that I thought of as a mysterious bug bit, which I have had come and go sporadically for at least a couple/few years (perhaps longer). I call them mysterious, because of how they arrive, for example, this one, I'm feeling fine, sitting on the couch inside, well clothed, shirt and sweatshirt as well as other clothes, and all of a sudden it is terribly itchy there, looks like a bug bite (smaller than from mosquito), and it's not like there were any bugs visibly flying around that might have done it. He said it looked like a "insert lots of big fancy words here", meaning not too much to worry about, but a lesion not at all from a bug. But, given the various puzzling aspects of my situation in general, he took it out and sent it off to see if we might learn something, anything, as things aren't always what they look like.

 

My plan really had been to take a break from antibiotics after the 28 days, because of the yeast/fungus issues. At the beginning of the biaxin, I had a horrible yeast/fungus issue. I have been dealing with a serious yeast/fungus issue for years, it is obvious now, but addressing it with 3 antifungals for a couple months, and with a lot of progress. So the yeast/fungus outburst with the introduction of antibiotics surprised me, indicating there is still much to be done there. It has stabilized during the antibiotics, but only with me taking 15 or so pills of probiotics every couple hours while awake, and once or twice in the middle of the night. Quite a grind! That's why I am eager to be done with antibiotics and take a break and get even more serious with the yeast/fungus in order to avoid going through this again.

 

If I get to it, I think the augmentin will be interesting. I can't swallow pills, and I see it does come in an oral suspension, but I'm sure the time release part will be gone there. Perhaps I'll just be spreading the doses out throughout the day, must say it's good I'm not trying to work these days, with all the time spent on pill-taking.

 

Goodness, given MomwithOCDson's and Vickie’s posts, it looks like a real thing to assess after the month whether to keep going with the biaxin. Not wanting to quit too soon, but not wanting to waste all this time when there are clearly other things to try and address. Of course, that experience is kids, where the long-term antibiotics are sometimes used, and maybe the reason that is needed for some is the same reason it takes longer for some. Quite a puzzle sometimes.

 

Michael

[GatsMom]

Thank you all for your input here.

 

I met with my local prescribing doctor today (different person than the PANDAS advisor we're using), and we decided to go ahead and finish the 28 days. He says 3-4 weeks is generally the time he hears being used for antibiotics, to make sure they've really taken care of something. This is general information and not at all specific to PANDAS. So, given this, and that I really have seen some improvement, and exactly the concern jewels mentions (not wanting to leave just a few bacteria left and let them grow back to tougher/meaner ones), we are going to finish the 28 days, then reassess, and by then lyme test results will be in to add more information.

 

He also took a biopsy today of something on my chest that I thought of as a mysterious bug bit, which I have had come and go sporadically for at least a couple/few years (perhaps longer). I call them mysterious, because of how they arrive, for example, this one, I'm feeling fine, sitting on the couch inside, well clothed, shirt and sweatshirt as well as other clothes, and all of a sudden it is terribly itchy there, looks like a bug bite (smaller than from mosquito), and it's not like there were any bugs visibly flying around that might have done it. He said it looked like a "insert lots of big fancy words here", meaning not too much to worry about, but a lesion not at all from a bug. But, given the various puzzling aspects of my situation in general, he took it out and sent it off to see if we might learn something, anything, as things aren't always what they look like.

 

My plan really had been to take a break from antibiotics after the 28 days, because of the yeast/fungus issues. At the beginning of the biaxin, I had a horrible yeast/fungus issue. I have been dealing with a serious yeast/fungus issue for years, it is obvious now, but addressing it with 3 antifungals for a couple months, and with a lot of progress. So the yeast/fungus outburst with the introduction of antibiotics surprised me, indicating there is still much to be done there. It has stabilized during the antibiotics, but only with me taking 15 or so pills of probiotics every couple hours while awake, and once or twice in the middle of the night. Quite a grind! That's why I am eager to be done with antibiotics and take a break and get even more serious with the yeast/fungus in order to avoid going through this again.

 

If I get to it, I think the augmentin will be interesting. I can't swallow pills, and I see it does come in an oral suspension, but I'm sure the time release part will be gone there. Perhaps I'll just be spreading the doses out throughout the day, must say it's good I'm not trying to work these days, with all the time spent on pill-taking.

 

Goodness, given MomwithOCDson's and Vickie’s posts, it looks like a real thing to assess after the month whether to keep going with the biaxin. Not wanting to quit too soon, but not wanting to waste all this time when there are clearly other things to try and address. Of course, that experience is kids, where the long-term antibiotics are sometimes used, and maybe the reason that is needed for some is the same reason it takes longer for some. Quite a puzzle sometimes.

 

Michael

 

As you know, Michael, we're right behind you. This is day 7 of biaxin 500mg twice daily for Gat. I wanted to wait to post, officially, on his last 7 days until I was really certain (I think we all have varying degrees of jinxing our success) but today, even Gat said in the context of a discussion with his girlfriend, "...and now that I'm getting better...". We are continuing to see gains that sound much like yours, Michael. Dr. T told me from the onset when looking at Gat's labwork surprise that we should see improvement within a few days once starting the right abs and we certainly have. Gat's initial Rx for Biaxin is for 10 days but he also gave us 2 refills. I will be contacting him to report in but will be pushing to finish a full month on Biaxin. Also like you, Gat is forever in a fight with yeast. We've got it barely under control but it is a day by day issue and dropping the ball for even a day will have serious backlash on him. In my opinion, we've come too far and waited way too long to get on the right abx to quit too soon. I know once the abx are discontinued or brought down to a prophylactic dose, I can get yeast under control. We have NEVER taken any medication in the 8 years that we've been dealing with this that has produced a result as noticeable as what biaxin has. I've read that folks can have a myco p for many years, often unaware of it because of nonclassic symptoms. Since Gat never got back to 100% after his last exacerbation 4 yrs ago, I'm inclined to believe that its possible he may have had some infection underlying all this time. One would think it would take more than 10 days or 2 wks to rid yourself of an infection the body's had on board that long. We have a long way to go, but this is the first forward movement we've seen in 9 wks of sliding backward (including 17 days of augmentin 1000mg xr twice daily).

 

I really think you are on the right track, Michael. Keep up the good work!

Gat's mom

[thereishope]

fyi....Someone once posted not to split Augmentin in half to take it (cutting the pill in half). I don't know if you were thinking about doing that with the swallowing issue. May I ask why you can't swallow them (or have you posted that before)? My Mom couldn't either due to some autoimmune problems that caused inflammation that wouldn't allow her to swallow correctly. I know with some anti pain meds she tried to chew the pill and it ended up burning her vocal cords or esophogus. Luckily, it was temp.

[peglem]

fyi....Someone once posted not to split Augmentin in half to take it (cutting the pill in half). I don't know if you were thinking about doing that with the swallowing issue. May I ask why you can't swallow them (or have you posted that before)? My Mom couldn't either due to some autoimmune problems that caused inflammation that wouldn't allow her to swallow correctly. I know with some anti pain meds she tried to chew the pill and it ended up burning her vocal cords or esophogus. Luckily, it was temp.

 

I think you can split it as long as you take it at the same time, but not if you take half now, half later.

[MomWithOCDSon]

fyi....Someone once posted not to split Augmentin in half to take it (cutting the pill in half). I don't know if you were thinking about doing that with the swallowing issue. May I ask why you can't swallow them (or have you posted that before)? My Mom couldn't either due to some autoimmune problems that caused inflammation that wouldn't allow her to swallow correctly. I know with some anti pain meds she tried to chew the pill and it ended up burning her vocal cords or esophogus. Luckily, it was temp.

 

I think you can split it as long as you take it at the same time, but not if you take half now, half later.

 

Yep, that's what I read in the GSK materials on XR. They provide the split line in the XR just for that purpose: breaking the pill in half if it's too big to get down in one piece. But both halves have to be consumed simultaneously.

[MichaelTampa]

Gat's mom--good to hear you're seeing some good signs! Looks like we're on similar tracks in a number of ways here.

 

About the pill swallowing, that is something I haven't been able to do since a small child. When I swallow, the tube or whatever really gets smaller that things won't go down it unless it is really small. And, I can't even relax it to let anything down without biting/chewing for a while. I think some people call that the bite reflex. (Actually, after getting a device from Dr. Sims for TMJ/Tourette's, there was a period of a couple weeks where I was able to swallow whole some extremely small pills, but even then I did need to bite down on it and, if it didn't break, then it was still whole and I could sometimes swallow it. That resulted from being quite a bit more relaxed. Over time, going back to work following that got me more stressed and busy, and it got harder and I kind stopped trying.) I'm just used to opening up capsules and chewing pills and getting all the crazy tastes, but drugs are always trickier, as they are sometimes made with special stuff, like that time release.

 

Michael