Involuntary Movements

[Suzan]

DD8 has been comlaining of some involuntary movements that do not seem like tics. They are isolated movements. Like her chin will drop to her chest and back up. It will happen one time and she will say that she didn't mean to do that, that her body felt like it had to do it. She says she gets this in her fingers and toes, hands and feet too and they usually are only one time.

 

Does this sound like anything to you guys? It is bothersome to her because she doesn't know why and they make her nervous. She has not had any tics at this point.

 

Susan

[peglem]

DD8 has been comlaining of some involuntary movements that do not seem like tics. They are isolated movements. Like her chin will drop to her chest and back up. It will happen one time and she will say that she didn't mean to do that, that her body felt like it had to do it. She says she gets this in her fingers and toes, hands and feet too and they usually are only one time.

 

Does this sound like anything to you guys? It is bothersome to her because she doesn't know why and they make her nervous. She has not had any tics at this point.

 

Susan

They sound like they could be seizures..but I'm no expert! Don't want to scare you!

[Suzan]

DD8 has been comlaining of some involuntary movements that do not seem like tics. They are isolated movements. Like her chin will drop to her chest and back up. It will happen one time and she will say that she didn't mean to do that, that her body felt like it had to do it. She says she gets this in her fingers and toes, hands and feet too and they usually are only one time.

 

Does this sound like anything to you guys? It is bothersome to her because she doesn't know why and they make her nervous. She has not had any tics at this point.

 

Susan

They sound like they could be seizures..but I'm no expert! Don't want to scare you!

 

My other daughter has a history of seizures but hers are the absent kind, non-convulsing. I will bring it up with Dr. T on Thursday though, just in case. Although they don't seem like a seizure, I never would have thought my other daughter was having seizures so I would not rule it out.

 

Susan

[P_Mom]

Sounds like a tic to me...they can be isolated and occur once.

[Suzan]

Sounds like a tic to me...they can be isolated and occur once.

 

Oh! I didn't know that about tics. Maybe that is what is going on. I'll have to read up more on it. I thought they had to be repetitive or more constant.

 

s

[sf_mom]

Susan, My son did the same thing with his chin. Sometimes it open and then he'd click back up with his knee.

 

-Wendy

[Buster]

Like her chin will drop to her chest and back up. It will happen one time and she will say that she didn't mean to do that, that her body felt like it had to do it. She says she gets this in her fingers and toes, hands and feet too and they usually are only one time.

It's possible it is a compulsion rather than a tic. Is your daughter able to hold off on the gesture or finish it in some other way?

[peglem]

Like her chin will drop to her chest and back up. It will happen one time and she will say that she didn't mean to do that, that her body felt like it had to do it. She says she gets this in her fingers and toes, hands and feet too and they usually are only one time.

It's possible it is a compulsion rather than a tic. Is your daughter able to hold off on the gesture or finish it in some other way?

So what would be the difference between a compulsion and a tic?

[EAMom]

Can you try to get a video? That is always helpful to show docs.

 

My dd had some "movements" and we were never sure if they were tics (she also had a vocal tic, throat sound), or compulsions, or even chorea. We videotaped them and got different opinions from different docs! Needless to say, they are gone now that dd's had IVIG.

[Buster]

So what would be the difference between a compulsion and a tic?

"Tics are sudden, repetitive, stereotyped motor movements or phonic productions that are often perceived as involuntary but that are sometimes accompanied by

premonitory sensory urges."

 

So perhaps the only real difference is whether they are repetitive or whether she's aware of it.

 

Buster

[peglem]

So what would be the difference between a compulsion and a tic?

"Tics are sudden, repetitive, stereotyped motor movements or phonic productions that are often perceived as involuntary but that are sometimes accompanied by

premonitory sensory urges."

 

So perhaps the only real difference is whether they are repetitive.

 

Buster

 

That makes sense.

[Buster]

So what would be the difference between a compulsion and a tic?

 

Although the more I think about it, the harder it is to separate a tic from a compulsion... oh well,... is it really just whether you are aware of it? compulsions can certainly repeat :-)

[peglem]

We're probably just splitting hairs. Then how do you tell the difference between tics, compulsions and "stims?" I've never gotten a satisfactory answer to that one. Its just that my daughter has some very complex movements that I'm sure are involuntary (she doesn't have the physical coordination to do them voluntarily). Autism people call them stims- self stimulatory behaviors. I'm not entirely sure that the banging her head isn't a tic or compulsion, or the kneeing herself in the face. These things are so hard to watch, and I see her trying to resist doing them...then they explode out.

I'm going to try to get some of this on film for when we see Dr. Latimer in January- in case Allie doesn't do them in her presence.

[Suzan]

Like her chin will drop to her chest and back up. It will happen one time and she will say that she didn't mean to do that, that her body felt like it had to do it. She says she gets this in her fingers and toes, hands and feet too and they usually are only one time.

It's possible it is a compulsion rather than a tic. Is your daughter able to hold off on the gesture or finish it in some other way?

 

I asked her this morning and she said she does not know it's coming and she can't stop it. It sounds more like a muscle twitch to me, except for the fact that yesterday she said she felt like she had to do it. Maybe that just meant she could not control it.

 

Susan

[pixiesmommy]

This is of great interest to me because Pixie and I both do this. I agree with you in the sense that it doesn't LOOK like a tic, in that it isn't that constant same type of movement, but I'll bet it technically is. I'll give you an example- mine is stretching. I stretch my toes quite a lot. I don't always do it the same way, and anyone who wasn't aware would think I was just getting comfy or whatever. I never in a million years even thought about it consciously until two things happened:

1- Pixie was diagnosed and I started looking at myself for similar symptoms because we have similar histories and "the apple doesn't fall far" theory

2- I saw several photos of myself in which I was doing something weird with my feet!

 

Pixie's tends to be more of a spatial thing like with your daughter- she'll twist suddenly in the bathtub or her arm will jerk. It looks like this involuntary spasm, but you may only see the thing once.

 

I wonder too if it has to do with the weird roaming pains that go with autoimmune disorders...?