Strep in adults

[peglem]

So last night, just for fun (is this what its come to?), I went looking for information on GABHS. I read that the reason adults have less problems with strep is because they've been exposed to most strains during childhood and have acquired immunity. Well, that just makes so much sense, I wonder why I never thought of that? Anyway, I, of course, began to consider what are the implications for my daughter, who doesn't seem to be building any immunity to GABHS. She's 15 now....Will she be having problems with this into adulthood?

[ShaesMom]

So last night, just for fun (is this what its come to?), I went looking for information on GABHS. I read that the reason adults have less problems with strep is because they've been exposed to most strains during childhood and have acquired immunity. Well, that just makes so much sense, I wonder why I never thought of that? Anyway, I, of course, began to consider what are the implications for my daughter, who doesn't seem to be building any immunity to GABHS. She's 15 now....Will she be having problems with this into adulthood?

 

I never remember having strep as a child. In fact, my first strep infection was when my son brought it home from preschool. I ended up having strep from early December until the first of March. Every test came back positive. I literally layed on the couch for three months because I felt so horrible. I ate nothing but ice cream and ended up gaining 10 pounds that winter. My Pandas dd still remembers that year-she often makes comments about the time I used to sleep on the couch every day when my son was at school and she would watch cartoons. Since that year I have had just as many strep infections as my children and it usually hits me worse than either of them. Somehow my dh always seems to avoid it.

 

A year and half ago I was dx'd with Fibromyalgia. My symptoms started in January 08-I literally woke up on January 1st and knew something was wrong because I didn't feel the same (no I did not have a hangover ). My dd's last known strep infection was in Nov of 07 with mild Pandas symptoms starting in mid December. I have often wondered it there is a connection between the two.

[thereishope]

Hopefully as they become adults and are no longer in a school setting or areas where there are a lot of youth, they will get less strep infections. Do you find her getting less infections now that she is a teenager and understands hygiene more? I'm curious because I have a 6 year old w/ PANDAS. I also have a 3 and 8 who no matter how much you tell them to cover their mouth, wash their hands, etc...they don't.

[peglem]

Shaesmom, I wonder, then, if you may have had an immune deficiency as a child, undiagnosed of course. I was actually sick alot as a child, seldom saw the doctor, though- we were so poor and those were the days when moms just nursed their kids through illness, unless it was an emergency situation. But, as an adult, even my 1st few years of teaching(which is supposed to be the worse time for teachers because of exposure to all those kids' germs) I seldom get ill, and when I do, its easily overcome just managing symptoms. So, I think all those illnesses (colds and stuff mostly) when I was a child gave me a large and diverse immune memory.

 

Vickie, My daughter has been dealing with PANDAS since she was a toddler, it disrupted her development since early childhood. We didn't make the strep connection until she was 10...nobody had ever checked for strep back when she actually had symptoms. (I can actually understand that, they thought if they were going to treat w/ abx anyway, why put her though the swab since it wouldn't change course of treatment) and when she got sick again after abx treatment, they decided it must be allergies. Actually once she was dx'd autistic, I think there was a doctor bias there that kept her from getting the kind of medical attention normal kids would get in the same situation...but that's a whole other topic. So, I don't think her being a teenager in these circumstances is improving her hygiene-

 

But I'm thinking this is an immune system issue, more than a hygiene issue. If a child's immune system is working properly, it is finding pathogens and developing antibodies before an infection happens- they don't get actual infections with every pathogen they are exposed to. So, they build immune memory (stored copies of antigens) to things that didn't actually make them sick. That's the idea behind vaccines-build memory by exposure to antigens that are disabled or too weak to cause illness. (Another whole other topic!) So, I guess what I'm actually asking here is are there implications for how well (or not) my daughter is building immune memory so that she will "grow out" (or not) of this chronic strep situation?

[P_Mom]

I have thought about that.....getting immune to strep as a child as you are exposed to the strains....then not getting it so much as an adult. So, keeping our kids on proph antibiotics....is this going to keep them from getting the immunity to strep that they need by keeping the strep away? Not considering going off antibiotics....that is for sure....not yet atleast, but, I have wondered about that. What happens to them as adults when they go off the antibiotics if they don't get the exposure and immunity they need as children?

[greeneyes48072]

Both my son and I are prone to strep. I don't often get anything else, just strep. Once or twice a year. It has always been like that for me, even before my son. My mother was the same way...prone to strep.

[ShaesMom]

Shaesmom, I wonder, then, if you may have had an immune deficiency as a child, undiagnosed of course. I was actually sick alot as a child, seldom saw the doctor, though- we were so poor and those were the days when moms just nursed their kids through illness, unless it was an emergency situation. But, as an adult, even my 1st few years of teaching(which is supposed to be the worse time for teachers because of exposure to all those kids' germs) I seldom get ill, and when I do, its easily overcome just managing symptoms. So, I think all those illnesses (colds and stuff mostly) when I was a child gave me a large and diverse immune memory.

 

I don't remember being ill as a child much at all. I have actually been much sicker since my Pandas daughter has been born than ever prior. I seem to get strep as often as they do only worse and I also get bronchitis once or twice a year. It seems like every time I get an infection it takes me at least a month to get over it. So, I'm beginning to think that I may also have a comprised immune system.

 

In addition, my dd was born with an anaphylactic allergy to dairy and I have since become lactose intolerant. I truly believe something went "wrong" during my pregnancy with her. Either I have compromised her immune system or she compromised mine.

[pixiesmommy]

I had strep ALL. THE. TIME. as a child and have had it multiple times as an adult (probably more than I know because I tend to avoid doctors for things like sore throats... well, at least until now!) I was sick a lot and had chronic sinus infections through adolescence into early adulthood (about age 11-20) and was tested for all sorts of things and told, finally, "its just the way you are" after I literally could NOT recover fully from mono at age 17 (tired, weak, etc for YEARS after.)

 

Like ShaesMom, I had a similar rxn after Pixie had 2 strep infections in a row (probably just one long one that didn't clear now that I think about it) and woke up one morning with sore EVERYTHING (joints in fingers and toes, etc) and have been in a constant state of exhaustion and just overall "poor health" in that I never feel completely well, ever since. I also was dx'ed with Fibro last summer (by a supposed fantastic rheumatologist) who refused to dx me with Lupus because I didn't have positive bloodwork, even though I have the same symptoms as my mom who IS dx with Lupus.

 

Anyway, all of this to say that yes, for most people this is PROBABLY true- just as most adults have gained immunity to other things (not just strep) from having been exposed as a child, BUT if you have new strains that you are being exposed to as an adult or you are immuno-compromised, then you will probably continue to have problems. I know for me, it seems to take FOREVER for me to heal from anything- getting my tonsils out 5 yrs ago to help prevent strep when I was in my late 20s!!! I was supposed to have a few months recovery time and I literally kept a sore throat for a YEAR afterwards. I've had shingles and have Raynauds, etc etc. and there is no blood test that anyone has ever run that gives an answer to why these things keep popping up for me, yet they do.

 

I would like to hope that since they are going to grow out of this, but I'm really terrified that that is not the way it works and since there is something "wrong" in their response, or misdirected response or lack of response.... that this is really going to be something that can't be "cured" and it's all just said and done and over with.

[britneymag]

I had Strep 3-4 times a year as a child and ended up with Rheumatic fever when I was 18. I was put on antibiotics for 3 years and now I am 36 and have never had another strep infection. I also had tics and ocd (undiagnosed) throughout my childhood. I am thinking that I very definitely could have had PANDAS.

 

I am now reading up on and trying to get treatment for my daughter who HAS been diagnosed with tourette's and OCD. She tends to get strep a lot also. I wonder if she was more apt to get it because of me? Also, if antibiotics helped me will they be more likely to help her? This is the argument that I am giving to the Dr. that we are seeing anyway.

 

Melanie

[colleenrn]

Has your daughter been diagnosed with PANDAS and is she on antibiotics? Given that she gets strep and has OCD and tics, she most likely has PANDAS.

 

Colleen

[britneymag]

She has not been diagnosed , but I do believe that she has it. I have found a Dr. who is at least willing to listen to me and read the research that I bring him. I think I do need to find a Dr. who already knows about this because my Dr. is only going to go so far. She is on Antibiotics right now for an infection. He told me he would keep her on it for 14 days and then put her on a smaller dose for about 4 weeks and we will see what happens. I don't think that I could get him to prescribe steroids or anything else right now.

 

She is on day nine of amoxicillin and tics were good for five days and then started getting worse again. Is this normal? When should the tics start to subside?

 

Melanie

[T_Mom]

She has not been diagnosed , but I do believe that she has it. I have found a Dr. who is at least willing to listen to me and read the research that I bring him. I think I do need to find a Dr. who already knows about this because my Dr. is only going to go so far. She is on Antibiotics right now for an infection. He told me he would keep her on it for 14 days and then put her on a smaller dose for about 4 weeks and we will see what happens. I don't think that I could get him to prescribe steroids or anything else right now.

 

She is on day nine of amoxicillin and tics were good for five days and then started getting worse again. Is this normal? When should the tics start to subside?

 

Melanie

 

Melanie, the best advice I ever got was to try a month long of full strength antibiotics for our d. In our case we did use Amoxicillan as it was all we could get from anyone at the time--We saw good results, but it took time.

 

Others have found Amox. did not help but stronger antibiotics did--You have read the Saving Sammy book? Worth watching the video clip referenced in past posts as well certainly--

Take care--

[EAMom]

She has not been diagnosed , but I do believe that she has it. I have found a Dr. who is at least willing to listen to me and read the research that I bring him. I think I do need to find a Dr. who already knows about this because my Dr. is only going to go so far. She is on Antibiotics right now for an infection. He told me he would keep her on it for 14 days and then put her on a smaller dose for about 4 weeks and we will see what happens. I don't think that I could get him to prescribe steroids or anything else right now.

 

She is on day nine of amoxicillin and tics were good for five days and then started getting worse again. Is this normal? When should the tics start to subside?

 

Melanie

 

Melanie, if your dd is not clearly better on the amoxicillin, ask for something stronger. Full strength Augmentin or Azith. A lot of folks here have kids on Azith. Augmentin can be good but like Sammy, you may need higher doses.

 

Here some info: http://www.entrepreneur.com/tradejournals/.../169459644.html

 

I also really agree with T. Mom...you should do full-strength abs...and do them for at least 2 mo. Tics took many weeks for us to go away (OCD/mood improved faster.)

 

Where do you live? Maybe someone can rec. a doc.

 

Also, consider getting the Cunningham blood tests done...the closest thing to a "diagnostic test" for PANDAS.

 

BTW...I agree with Colleen, esp. with your hx of rheumatic fever.

[britneymag]

Thanks for the comments. I have sent off for the tubes for Dr. Cunningham's study. I am a little worried that it won't show anything since she is on antibiotics. She is still ticcing away even after being on Amox for two weeks so I am going to call her Dr. and see about something stronger.

 

I am in the Austin Texas area if anyone knows of a good dr. around here. We saw Dr. Kendal Stewart for her sensory issues which he helped with using antivirals, but we could never get rid of the tics. When I asked him about PANDAS last year not much info was out there so he didn't seem like he wanted to pursue it.

 

Melanie

[EAMom]

Thanks for the comments. I have sent off for the tubes for Dr. Cunningham's study. I am a little worried that it won't show anything since she is on antibiotics. She is still ticcing away even after being on Amox for two weeks so I am going to call her Dr. and see about something stronger.

 

I am in the Austin Texas area if anyone knows of a good dr. around here. We saw Dr. Kendal Stewart for her sensory issues which he helped with using antivirals, but we could never get rid of the tics. When I asked him about PANDAS last year not much info was out there so he didn't seem like he wanted to pursue it.

 

Melanie

 

Have you e-mailed Beth Maloney?....I think she has her own dr. list.

 

Our dd had the "highest CAM kinase ll" Dr. Latimer had ever seen (above the SC kids) after being on Azith. 250mg/day for 1 year...so I wouldn't worry about the 2 weeks of Amoxcillin! For us, steroids and IVIG lowered the Cam kinase, but not the abs.

 

I got this name from Diana Pohlman (pandasnetwork.org)...I don't know anything personally about this doc. (This doc is in Houston Tx, not Austin). Quentin Collard (her) # is 713 795-9500. She is a practice with other docs who do NOT see pandas kids (so make sure appointment is with her). Located in the Medical Center on Fannin St. Houston Tx

 

There is also a separate thread on this forum on docs. Here's some Texas docs from poetmom http://www.latitudes.org/forums/index.php?...art=#entry36587